Konami Live edition of Frogger: Ancient Shadow

[prototector]

Would anyone happened to have played this obscure version of Frogger: Ancient Shadow



We're looking to recover the files to this game as it requires connection to a server to work at all; to download the files when first installing and each time to run the game. The server was taken offline around 2012-2013.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I wasn't sure what this was, if it was a "game on a controller" you plug into your TV sort of thing but it turns out it's far, far more awful.

There is a (formerly) lost PC port of Frogger Ancient Shadow.
This port was released on a USB controller which would download an installer from online servers when plugged in to the computer.
The game would then stream game assets from the servers while you play it. (It would download the files from Konami's servers when you reached a point where you needed those files.)
This was a pretty neat concept

If by "pretty neat concept" you mean "flaming dumpster fire of awfulness", then sure. You need the controller to play the game and each time you play it downloads only the assets needed instead of containing the assets in memory accessible on the controller itself. More importantly, it becomes a completely worthless brick if you don't have internet access or if the server sending the files goes down, as it inevitably does for older games.

We're looking to recover the files to this game

Why?

This is a serious question, why waste any time trying to recover this port of a game that should be forgotten to history? I notice there's a PS2, a Gamecube, and an Xbox release for it as well; did the PC version have any actual compelling components the console releases did not such as online multiplayer or something? Otherwise I'd say don't bother, just get one of the ports working in an emulator.

This is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction I suppose. My mind's simply boggling at how this is one of the most awful pieces of technology I've ever seen. You don't own the game; you own a device that allows you to temporarily rent out the game over the internet until they decide to yank support for it, and you have to use that controller to play it. Did they really need to sell it this way? If they didn't want to sell CDs and DVDs of the games, why not make the controller or keys have a full copy of the game? Did it really save manufacturing costs to do this? Why make a device that is guaranteed to become a mere paperweight in the future for its owners? Argh.

Good luck finding someone who happens to still have the necessary assets and temporary files on their computer. But I'd argue such an actively user-hostile release when there's multiple console releases deserves to rot away, forgotten.

Apparently these people are the ones to blame for the creation of this horrendous abomination of self-destructing user hostile software/hardware: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_Jet

Yikes, check out this commercial. xD

[prototector]

If by "pretty neat concept" you mean "flaming dumpster fire of awfulness", then sure.

No disagreement there, and I don't think kneesnap really meant that either in the end.

You need the controller to play the game and each time you play it downloads only the assets needed instead of containing the assets in memory accessible on the controller itself. More importantly, it becomes a completely worthless brick if you don't have internet access or if the server sending the files goes down, as it inevitably does for older games.

This is what is being worked on. It's now able to work without needing to connect to the internet; bypassing the need for the controller to even play it is in the works.

Why?

This is a serious question, why waste any time trying to recover this port of a game that should be forgotten to history? I notice there's a PS2, a Gamecube, and an Xbox release for it as well; did the PC version have any actual compelling components the console releases did not such as online multiplayer or something? Otherwise I'd say don't bother, just get one of the ports working in an emulator.

I am strongly for the preservation of video games. I don't care how awful they are. Yes, this is an alternate version/port; but if there are differences (ie, it's not identical to other versions), it is worth archiving it.

It's not just about this particular product. There is another controller with this Konami Live label that is for a collection of arcade ports. These versions precede, and were used as the base for the XBLA ports. The graphical enhancement feature of the XBLA versions came from these. Those are now playable without requiring an internet connection.

This is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction I suppose. My mind's simply boggling at how this is one of the most awful pieces of technology I've ever seen. You don't own the game; you own a device that allows you to temporarily rent out the game over the internet until they decide to yank support for it, and you have to use that controller to play it. Did they really need to sell it this way? If they didn't want to sell CDs and DVDs of the games, why not make the controller or keys have a full copy of the game? Did it really save manufacturing costs to do this? Why make a device that is guaranteed to become a mere paperweight in the future for its owners? Argh.

Not quite. For the arcade collection, the full game data is downloaded locally to the user's computer and it remains there. It's just that it would have required connecting to the server each time to play. But again, that has been taken care of. With this version of Frogger unfortunately, the game data is downloaded progressively; ie, only as you progress through the game. That's why we're hoping that someone might played through this version and still has the files. That's the most difficult part; dealing with the server requirement and game pad exclusivity will be much easier after that.

Basically, we're hoping to save the games themselves, not the trash heap package they're embroidered in.

[Ed Oscuro]

Hey prototector, bless you for asking about this odd thing. I am glad to say it seems the mystery has been mostly solved. Short summary: People who may still have a backup of the game's files are still needed! Personal story: I mentioned this in the Digital Press Retrogaming Roundtable in 2007 for some reason or other, in a mostly unrelated thread. I bought the Contra one (the other model, in black and green) as a thrift store find years later, and probably immediately discovered it was no longer usable even as a controller, so I never opened it. I likely donated it back before my move. I spent a few minutes looking around my tech wasteland archive just now, and it didn't show up. Too bad; would've been interesting to know when these were finally dead inventory that a local store donated for the tax writeoff, or to crack it open and see if it was just one glob chip or what's going on. Maybe someday I'll do that...the good news is that these aren't going up in price any time soon. It seems like a clever (if wrong-headed) hardware design, using maybe just a single chip to run a stub installer so all the assets can be stored remotely and then streamed on-demand. The files were stored locally once downloaded.

There are a few websites that give crucial information about this device:
First, the pretty awesome ad featuring the "Grounded Godmother" himself, which also has a very helpful caption: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lW5KpJYuvA
Next, a press release mentioning the brand of the software platform, QiGO (TM) Smart Connect Technology: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/ ... ontrollers
Developer "Oberon Media" was co-founded by Jane Jensen, of Gabriel Knight fame. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_Media
More on Oberon Media: http://passfieldgames.blogspot.com/2007/ leads here to a story about Oberon Media doing a deal with MySpace: https://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_ ... tory=15972

Now the fun part. There were multiple devices which used the scheme, including:
The Hasbro NetJet, sold under the Tiger Electronics brand:
https://lostmediawiki.com/Net_Jet_Games ... 2007-2009)

And the Frogger device:
https://lostmediawiki.com/Frogger:_Anci ... mer;_2006)

There is a writeup on how the device actually works here:
https://highwayfrogs.net/thread/60/pc-port-restoration/

AND a neat video showing stuff from the Tiger Electronics NetJet from 2019:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWbbtrpMSDY

It would be cool to get the other version working as it has some other stuff like "Konami News" which would be fun to look at (although probably not exactly "news" anymore).

Finally, the device might be mentioned somewhere in this extremely icky-to-read old games industry publication which is mostly about how to fleece your customers more efficiently: https://issuu.com/casualconnect/docs/2008summer

[prototector]

Thanks for your reply.

Some members of the Frogger community, as well as I, probably know the most about these gimmicks due to pursuing this for about 6 years between us.

I actually bought and played the arcade collection in 2011, so the server was still up then; they took it down some time in 2012 or early 2013. I should have put more time into seeing how to back up the game data, but made a few assumptions. One was that Konami would have kept it operational for way longer than they did. Another was that I assumed the files that were downloaded to the computer were all that were needed to play the games indefinitely. I wasn't completely wrong on the latter, but I wouldn't find out that good news until over a decade later (as in, literally in the past week or so).

A few years after buying it, I tried firing the controller back up to finally document it thoroughly, only to discover that it's no longer functional. It turns out that the damn thing and associated game files still require a connection to the server each time it's played, not just for the first time. When I spoke to Konami about this, they were dismissive and discouraging about the matter. They pretty much claimed the games were gone for good and were never downloaded to the user's computer; instead, they were streamed. The files that get downloaded were allegedly just shortcut launchers to the server and other config files. I believed this because each game seemed really small (1 to few mb), considering they had the graphical "upgrade", etc. It was during that time that I discovered the connection to Oberon Media, QiGo, Net Jet, etc. Everywhere I tried, it all seemed hopeless so I kind of gave up on it.

Then a couple of weeks ago, I discovered the efforts by Highway Frogs to restore the Konami Live edition of Frogger. I contacted them to get more info and instead, I got way more than that. It turns out what is downloaded to your computer is the full game data. It's all just encrypted, with a server connection check. They've already broken that, making the games accessible again. So now I'm trying to help them recover the complete data to Frogger as an appreciation.

Fortunately, I have saved a copy of all of the games from the arcade collection. A few years ago, I was also given what is probably the most complete set of the Net Jet game library known up to now. So all of these are as good as saved. We're still hoping to find someone who played the Frogger port to completion and still has the files, however. But (not really) unfortunately, the online portal which featured the Konami News and other server-side content is very likely pointless to pursue since the site/portal content wasn't downloaded, so is most definitely gone.

The controllers (at least the Konami Live ones) are pretty dubious, functionally. They are detected by Windows as a CD drive, not a game pad. So they have no use as they are for anything but the games they were intended for. That, of course, would have meant that they're completely useless and until recently, I would have said getting them would be a huge waste of money. But now with these developments, they're slightly less of a waste of money.

[Ed Oscuro]

I realized my lack of reading comprehension after I posted, but I figure it is still as good a summary as exists now. I might go ahead and edit up the Wikipedia article on Oberon Media once I lock things down a bit better. And thanks for your work and your personal thoughts on the matter, it's just as interesting as the corporate history of the device. Speaking of which, it's not surprising to me that Konami's PR people would talk out of their asses on this subject considering this was more or less a licensed job probably done almost entirely by a third party. Back at that time the idea of streaming all the assets - even if they were small for the time - doesn't sound reasonable.

The thing I'd like to find out is whether they're just a single globbed chip inside, and if so what that hardware is like. I expect the rest of the controller is the cheapest of cheap carbon pad membrane contact switches all around.

I gotta rewatch that NetJet video I posted. Looked like it had plug-in modules along the top.

[prototector]

The contact form or ticket system on the Konami site is pretty useless. They have the same kind of attitude towards anything non-current. I once asked them about the claim that was made in a few communities that they don't maintain archives of their older games and works. They said that it's true and that they're focused on present and future projects, etc. I took that as them just wanting to respond quickly, rather than giving a truthful answer. Even for current gaming inquiries, you'll probably get the template copy-pasted answers and suggestions.

The Konami Live controllers are surprisingly of decent quality, at least sturdy and durable. Mine works flawlessly after 11 years, and feels alright to use for the arcade games. The Netjet controllers do have a key slot of sorts, different from the KL units.