Keyboards specifically for arcade game enthusiasts

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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MathU
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Re: Keyboards specifically for arcade game enthusiasts

Post by MathU »

Just fooling with my arrow keys, when I use one really, really fast repeatedly I sometimes get a 0ms read on it. Otherwise the minimum seems to be something more like ~14ms -> 71.4Hz scan rate. Occasionally also ~8 to 10ms.
Of course, that's just an opinion.
Always seeking netplay fans to play emulated arcade games with.
Licorice
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Re: Keyboards specifically for arcade game enthusiasts

Post by Licorice »

8ms is probably the real deal and it's a number that makes sense. The 0ms might mean the switch is bouncing.

Depending on how the game handles input (event queueing or just reading the keyboard state periodically), this might mean a dropped or double press.

It's all a bit moot cause in real gaming scenarios you're not going to be pressing and releasing keys at only 10ms apart or whatever fucks up the debounce.

The tool is called "scan rate estimator", but what it really measures is just minimum time between key up and key down *browser* events on the same key. If latency is otherwise below this time, as measured by other means, then the overall whole board scan rate must be higher, and what you'd be seeing is the per key debounce algorithm (or just bouncing, as the case may be).

Also it's not measuring latency either. Imagine the latency is something ridiculous like 10 seconds. Well you press and release the button say 100ms apart. The tool gets the key down 10 seconds later, and the key up 10.1 seconds later and measures the 100ms.

That's my understanding anyway. Not an expert, just thinking out loud.
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MathU
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Re: Keyboards specifically for arcade game enthusiasts

Post by MathU »

So I've been doing more research on keyboard latency and returning once again to how aspects of the switches themselves might contribute substantially to input latency. Now I'm curious about the typical travel distances on Sanwa, Seimitsu, and Happ arcade buttons. Where do they actuate in their button presses? And is there a type of button or player that doesn't press their buttons all the way down to the bottom in their control style?

A side note as I'm cataloguing and comparing weights: you actually have to work quite hard to find an MX-style keyboard switch equivalent to American arcade push buttons. Heavy American buttons can require as much as 110g or even 140g of force to actuate, while most MX switches with spring weightings that high are linear switches with no tactility. Since American arcade buttons also have tactile feedback (Japanese buttons are usually linear from my understanding), you would have to grab one of the high-tactility switches that are typically rated in the 60-70g weight range and then swap their springs out for some much heavier ones in order to replicate their feel.

Conversely, it also seems that push buttons designed to house an MX keyboard switch such as Gamer Finger and Crown 202 unlock a niche that is underserved by the rest of the arcade push button industry: that of tactile buttons with reduced actuation forces. For example, I would venture to guess that nothing Sanwa, Seimitsu, or Happ produce is even remotely like the silent, highly-tactile, medium-actuation-force button you can construct by putting a Boba U4 switch in a Gamer Finger button.
Of course, that's just an opinion.
Always seeking netplay fans to play emulated arcade games with.
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MathU
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Re: Keyboards specifically for arcade game enthusiasts

Post by MathU »

I figured more would care and be interested in putting some data together for a topic like this. Surely there are many arcade push button users here.
Of course, that's just an opinion.
Always seeking netplay fans to play emulated arcade games with.
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Rastan78
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Re: Keyboards specifically for arcade game enthusiasts

Post by Rastan78 »

Where do they actuate in their button presses? And is there a type of button or player that doesn't press their buttons all the way down to the bottom in their control style?
With super old school leaf switch buttons you could manually adjust the switch to activate wherever you want. Space the leaves almost touching and you can create a hair trigger effects where you can just lightly feather the button to fire and never even come close to pressing all the way down.

Simple old school design, but highly effective, adjustable and very quiet compared to microswitched buttons. Will these types of switches ever make a comeback?

Example: https://www.arcadexpress.com/en/pinball ... -leaf.html

There's also something called a rollie leaf switch that let's you replace the switch in a standard US style microswitch button with something more akin to an old leaf switch button. Some say they're better for rapid fire mashing bc there's sort of a trampoline effect to bouncing the button on the leaves (almost like a miniature diving board) and you are not hard bottoming out the button.

A comment I saw regarding rapid tapping on leaves vs micros:
I had an upright Track & Field with micros sitting next to one with leafs. Huge difference. Response time was much faster witht the leafs. Joust is another one that makes a huge difference with micros Vs leafs. i am all about the origional leaf switches. Also, I have found the failure rate is much higher on micros.
More than likely the main reason leaf switches were phased out was that micros did not have to be periodically adjusted by the operator.
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