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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:28 am 


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Vanguard wrote:
The first game didn't reveal its full story unless you did some digging, but Black Souls 2 takes that idea to a ridiculous level and it's easily possible to go through multiple playthroughs and still have absolutely no idea of what is going on.


Ahh shit, this sounds like my kinda horror-inflected narrative :o

Blinge wrote:
Haha Vanguard that game looks cool but my god with the amount of good games and RPGs out there a legit H-game probably defaults to the bottom of the list.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:35 am 


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Blinge wrote:
Haha Vanguard that game looks cool but my god with the amount of good games and RPGs out there a legit H-game probably defaults to the bottom of the list.

I'm running low on ones I'm interested in and a lot of my best discoveries in recent years have been doujin games. Incidentally, a lot of doujin games include hentai. I know the common thinking with regards to porn games is that their gameplay is going to be an afterthought, but that isn't necessarily true. I'm glad Black Souls lets you disable its H scenes not because they offend me or anything but because they're a distraction from some top shelf RPG exploration.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:57 am 


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The jarpig joke gives me hives, but I've loved the genre since the original Dragon Warrior.

Project Triangle Tactics prompted me to finally get Octopath Traveler. I adored the demo, but heard so many conflicting things, and it was always full price so I held off.

I'm only about 4 hours in, but I'm in love with it so far. Everything about it is magical. It feels like it fell out of some alternate universe where Final Fantasy VII never happened and Square stuck to their spritely guns. They've made the nostalgia play a number of times, but this is really the first game I've played in I have no idea how long that feels like the "real" Square. And not just because of the visual gimmick (though that helps a lot), the music is outstanding, the systems seem well put together, and the character bits feel exactly like the character bits should.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:06 am 


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Octopath fucking rules. The only complaints I typically see are about the story presentation. Personally I could really just not care less about that. The gameplay is top notch.
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:22 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Octopath fucking rules. The only complaints I typically see are about the story presentation. Personally I could really just not care less about that. The gameplay is top notch.


The two main complaints I've seen are people upset that the story didn't turn out to be what they'd already decided it was supposed to be before going in, and that the boss fights go on too long. I've also seen people say they found it repetitive. It seems like it can be a pretty polarizing game, I've seen people say they actively hate it.

But it's just a few internet people being internet people. Nintendo just announced it's sold 2.5 million copies, which is a healthy distance ahead of what Xenoblade 2's done, despite that game coming out earlier. For something like this that doesn't happen without positive word of mouth.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:23 pm 


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The boss fights are one of the best parts. Especially the end gauntlet.
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:31 pm 


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Started playing Persona 4 on Friday. 20 hours in at this point and I'm quite in love with it. It's one of those rare games where I can say "after 20 hours I'm only a quarter of the way through? Great!" Admittedly some of that is just getting my Persona sea legs back, since it's so easy to forget that some JRPGs don't fuck around.

I'm hoping life doesn't get in the way of finishing it. I've been playing a lot of short stuff lately (rougelikes, shmups etc) and it's kind of nice to know that JRPGs are still capable of holding my attention. I'll be pretty annoyed if I end up locking myself out of content by messing up my social links, though.
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:39 pm 


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Loose thoughts on Bravely Default II copy/pasted from Discord:

Taking a break from Bravely Default 2 which I had been eagerly awaiting. I'm about 10-12 hours in on that and having some pretty mixed feelings.

I personally really enjoyed Bravely Default and Bravely Second. Yes the story was bad, however, it always felt to me like they at least understood what they had the chops on the team to do and what they didn't and they really leaned into what they were good at.

Like, a JRPG of that style needs a story and characters to function so of course that stuff is there, but they basically make a joke out of it in a way that always felt to me like them acknowledging that it's the bare minimum in a wink-wink nudge-nudge sort of way.

This new one feels like they can't really make up their mind on whether it is a joke or not, but they still kept the core structure which absolutely defies doing anything serious.

At its core the Bravely formula is:
- Final Fantasy 1 style main goal: You're a party of heroes, find the crystals and save the world or something.
- Every step along the way you will encounter Mega Man style bad guys who are basically joke characters that are stereotypically extreme versions of whatever job class you get from beating them.
- An attempt to incorporate the idea of New Game + into the narrative which is a spectacular failure

There is no indication that this formula has changes at all with this new entry, but they keep trying to do things within this formula which do not fit at all...like having serious character moments, or attempting to make the bosses sympathetic sometimes...

Introducing a sympathetic character who is clearly a job you don't have yet doesn't work in this game at all because you know you're gonna have to boss fight them in a few minutes for some arbitrary reason.

And it's hilarious trying to make your party give them a pep talk about how it's gonna be okay after you just stole their clothes

But the thing that really made me want to take a break was the side quests which are so bad in structure and execution that they almost seem malicious

It's hard to create content that is so bad that it is worse than absolutely nothing at all, and I can say with 100% confidence this game would be better if the entire side quest system was removed completely.

Mechanically the game is still quite strong and has some fresh ideas, but it's barely breaking even on being enough to hold my interest, whereas it carried me all the way to the end of both the previous games.

I'm playing on the hardest difficulty and so far the boss fights have been extremely well designed.

It continues to be a perfect example of how horrendous the higher level leadership and management must be at Square

That they can have Division 11 sitting there for so long with a savant-like ability to produce incredible RPG systems and nothing else

And like...they don't actually do anything other than just have them keep churning out games that have phenomenal traditional JRPG mechanics and horrible everything else


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:49 pm 


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Sengoku Strider wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Octopath fucking rules. The only complaints I typically see are about the story presentation. Personally I could really just not care less about that. The gameplay is top notch.


The two main complaints I've seen are people upset that the story didn't turn out to be what they'd already decided it was supposed to be before going in, and that the boss fights go on too long. I've also seen people say they found it repetitive. It seems like it can be a pretty polarizing game, I've seen people say they actively hate it.

But it's just a few internet people being internet people. Nintendo just announced it's sold 2.5 million copies, which is a healthy distance ahead of what Xenoblade 2's done, despite that game coming out earlier. For something like this that doesn't happen without positive word of mouth.


I think that 2.5 million includes the PC version, in fairness. But then, it warranted a PC version so must have been making the right noises.

It's a fantastic game though. If the bosses go on for too long, the player has not really understood the mechanics and/or has an unbalanced party - I'm a relative JRPG n00b and managed to figure out how to make the combat not-boring, so it surprises me to see self-proclaimed genre veterans criticising such elements. I thought Alfyn's storyline and character was a bit dull but aside from that really enjoyed the other stories. I guess being English and middle class, H'annit's ye olde wayeth off speaken remained entertaining the whole way through too - but that seemed to upset a few people. The soundtrack was a big highlight for me too.

I get some of the story criticism, as not only is there no party interaction until postgame (which is sparse, feels random but is really fun and jjst made me want much more of it and earlier) but party members being absent can be jarring for some of the story segments (like being imprisoned alone then busting out and woah full party). It's really minor though. Similarly the hidden optional superboss which forces you to replay a bunch of now easy boss fights only to send you into a fight that, if you set a balanced party, you have next to no hope winning blind. Then to retry it you have to wade through the tedious boss gauntlet again - it's a bit of an offensive use of the player's time, but ultimately is optional.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:21 am 


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TransatlanticFoe wrote:
It's a fantastic game though. If the bosses go on for too long, the player has not really understood the mechanics and/or has an unbalanced party - I'm a relative JRPG n00b and managed to figure out how to make the combat not-boring, so it surprises me to see self-proclaimed genre veterans criticising such elements.


There are some people that just seem to want a jrpg that plays itself. Conversely I usually rate them higher when the game is actually capable of killing me.

TransatlanticFoe wrote:
I get some of the story criticism, as not only is there no party interaction until postgame (which is sparse, feels random but is really fun and jjst made me want much more of it and earlier) but party members being absent can be jarring for some of the story segments (like being imprisoned alone then busting out and woah full party). It's really minor though. Similarly the hidden optional superboss which forces you to replay a bunch of now easy boss fights only to send you into a fight that, if you set a balanced party, you have next to no hope winning blind. Then to retry it you have to wade through the tedious boss gauntlet again - it's a bit of an offensive use of the player's time, but ultimately is optional.


Yeah moments like that were a bit silly.

RE superboss: I'm honestly not sure if anyone is going to beat that truly blind. You really need to be maxed out a tactical way that there isn't really an incentive to do prior. Maybe someone does it out of ocd of having their party be as tough as possible? After I died the first time I went into the menu and poured over all the abilities and changed a bunch of stuff up. There are some abilities that every character pretty much needs, then there is balancing your party for each half. Anyway after doing that I went back at the same level and kicked its ass so the strategy aspect is absolutely key there and I don't think there is a way to know playing blind outside of doing the fight and (likely) dying.

@Necron: Wow that's rough. I never did get much into the previous Bravely games.
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:13 am 


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TransatlanticFoe wrote:
Sengoku Strider wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Octopath fucking rules. The only complaints I typically see are about the story presentation. Personally I could really just not care less about that. The gameplay is top notch.


The two main complaints I've seen are people upset that the story didn't turn out to be what they'd already decided it was supposed to be before going in, and that the boss fights go on too long. I've also seen people say they found it repetitive. It seems like it can be a pretty polarizing game, I've seen people say they actively hate it.

But it's just a few internet people being internet people. Nintendo just announced it's sold 2.5 million copies, which is a healthy distance ahead of what Xenoblade 2's done, despite that game coming out earlier. For something like this that doesn't happen without positive word of mouth.


I think that 2.5 million includes the PC version, in fairness. But then, it warranted a PC version so must have been making the right noises.

It's a fantastic game though. If the bosses go on for too long, the player has not really understood the mechanics and/or has an unbalanced party - I'm a relative JRPG n00b and managed to figure out how to make the combat not-boring, so it surprises me to see self-proclaimed genre veterans criticising such elements. I thought Alfyn's storyline and character was a bit dull but aside from that really enjoyed the other stories. I guess being English and middle class, H'annit's ye olde wayeth off speaken remained entertaining the whole way through too - but that seemed to upset a few people. The soundtrack was a big highlight for me too.

I get some of the story criticism, as not only is there no party interaction until postgame (which is sparse, feels random but is really fun and jjst made me want much more of it and earlier) but party members being absent can be jarring for some of the story segments (like being imprisoned alone then busting out and woah full party). It's really minor though. Similarly the hidden optional superboss which forces you to replay a bunch of now easy boss fights only to send you into a fight that, if you set a balanced party, you have next to no hope winning blind. Then to retry it you have to wade through the tedious boss gauntlet again - it's a bit of an offensive use of the player's time, but ultimately is optional.


Well, you taught me something, I didn't even know there was a PC version. Or I think I read about it over a year ago, but repurposed those brain cells for something else.

H'aanit's who I started with (did Cyrus in the demo, he's awesome but didn't want to repeat that section right away). She's so cool. I actually get the feeling they were going for some kind of old hybrid Teutonic thing with her, the "Comen if thou daren!" stuff sounds like they were sticking German verb endings on videogamey Elizabethan English.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:31 am 


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My main game these days is Arknights. It's a bit interesting that it doesn't use an elemental rock-paper-scissors system to push product, but instead makes characters mechanically desirable based on archetypes. And they're all limited a bit, to some degree or other: there's only six characters with chainsaws so if you find it within your soul that it's necessary to clear stages by watching the enemy waves walk into a wall of chainsaws, well, lower strength characters remain a bit relevant.

There's a roguelike event going on there (themed as a magical drug-addled dream world, caused by mushroom abuse) where every run has randomized elements, and the variance is just fun. RNGesus is a cruel and capricious god. 30 minutes is definitely around the best length for that iterative arcade style of play.

Lufia 2 and its sequels were famous for it. But outside of the Final Fantasy 5: Ancient Cave romhack, I don't recall any other jRPGs that did this. Do you?


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:06 am 


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Necronopticous wrote:
It's hard to create content that is so bad that it is worse than absolutely nothing at all

I think worse-than-nothing content is really common. Probably the majority of games would benefit from cutting a few things even if nothing was put in their place.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:24 pm 


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Interesting to see Black Souls talk here. My main tabletop GM highly recommended bs1 and 2 for their stories and settings. I started out the first one but haven't had time to dig too far into it.

Unrelated, but I am contractually obligated to throw out in a thread like this that Trails in The Sky 1 and 2 are still objectively the best written video game stories of all time, and are extremely good in every possible way.
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:02 pm 


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How's Xeno Remastered on Switch? That's caught my eye recently for some odd reason. Considered decent?
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:08 pm 


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Oh on the note of "hentai games with actually cool gameplay" I should probably mention Baldr Sky.

Not reeeaaally an h-game, more just a visual novel with some sex scenes, but it's a vn supplemented by a top down sprite-based combo-driven mecha brawler that's honestly good enough to be a full game focused purely on that...

...which is definitely not what you're getting here. One thing that's kind of admirable about the game but undoubtedly a turn off for many folks is that it focuses on its story above all else, despite having fun combat. Expect to read maybe 5 hours of visual novel stuff before getting to a fight scene. They sure as fuck don't throw excuse fights at you just so you can get some gameplay in and satisfy your itching trigger finger.

Writing ain't bad though. Some solid cyberpunk worldbuilding and plotting. It wasn't blowing me away but it was enjoyable enough and had some genuinely interesting ideas going on. Need to get back to that one.
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Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:38 pm 


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Squire Grooktook wrote:
Oh on the note of "hentai games with actually cool gameplay" I should probably mention Baldr Sky.

Not reeeaaally an h-game, more just a visual novel with some sex scenes, but it's a vn supplemented by a top down sprite-based combo-driven mecha brawler that's honestly good enough to be a full game focused purely on that...

That looks badass, but it's not really an RPG, is it? I don't mean that in a "lol, off topic" way, it's just that it looks really fun and I would be disappointed if it turned out to be an RPG.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:55 pm 


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Marc wrote:
How's Xeno Remastered on Switch? That's caught my eye recently for some odd reason. Considered decent?


Better than decent. You can slot it all the way up at excellent.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:42 am 


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Searchlike wrote:
Squire Grooktook wrote:
Oh on the note of "hentai games with actually cool gameplay" I should probably mention Baldr Sky.

Not reeeaaally an h-game, more just a visual novel with some sex scenes, but it's a vn supplemented by a top down sprite-based combo-driven mecha brawler that's honestly good enough to be a full game focused purely on that...

That looks badass, but it's not really an RPG, is it? I don't mean that in a "lol, off topic" way, it's just that it looks really fun and I would be disappointed if it turned out to be an RPG.


Depends on your definition. It has character customization in the sense that with each mission you unlock new moves for your mech and can customize your moveset and combo strings to create your own playstyle. That and, as said, it's a character driven visual novel where sometimes battles and any gameplay at all are hours and hours apart.

I've seen it classified sometimes as a borderline jrpg, even if VN (with a small amount of (good) gameplay) is more accurate. Still seemed relevant to this topic.
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:43 am 


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Squire Grooktook wrote:
Depends on your definition. It has character customization in the sense that with each mission you unlock new moves for your mech and can customize your moveset and combo strings to create your own playstyle.

That sounds about as much of an RPG as God Hand, I saw the JRPG tag on Steam and got a bit worried. I don't mind that it's mostly a visual novel, thanks for the clarification.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:13 am 


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Vanguard wrote:
I'm running low on ones I'm interested in and a lot of my best discoveries in recent years have been doujin games. Incidentally, a lot of doujin games include hentai. I know the common thinking with regards to porn games is that their gameplay is going to be an afterthought, but that isn't necessarily true. I'm glad Black Souls lets you disable its H scenes not because they offend me or anything but because they're a distraction from some top shelf RPG exploration.

When I was reading your post I was thinking "only 1650 yen?" and imagining something like this (nsfw). Haha, not exactly... But maybe it's true that H games shouldn't be underestimated, look who tops this list: https://gamicus.gamepedia.com/List_of_l ... me_scripts

re: Pier Solar. I played the Genesis cart, and was unimpressed with the 'unconventional' save system, not getting to explore areas because I kept accidentally triggering irrevocable plot advancements, and battle tactics that involve waiting around. Also the game crashed once. Nice gfx and soundtrack though.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:18 am 


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Searchlike wrote:
That sounds about as much of an RPG as God Hand, I saw the JRPG tag on Steam and got a bit worried. I don't mind that it's mostly a visual novel, thanks for the clarification.


Yeah people misuse genre tags, especially JRPG all the damn time. spergs like me hate it.

My favourite is a friend who insists that Dark Souls is a western style rpg. :|
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:43 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Searchlike wrote:
That sounds about as much of an RPG as God Hand, I saw the JRPG tag on Steam and got a bit worried. I don't mind that it's mostly a visual novel, thanks for the clarification.


Yeah people misuse genre tags, especially JRPG all the damn time. spergs like me hate it.

My favourite is a friend who insists that Dark Souls is a western style rpg. :|


Only one thing to do about it.
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:57 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
My favourite is a friend who insists that Dark Souls is a western style rpg. :|


It is when I play :O

1. Character name "Boris Bumshagger XVII," heir to Mt. HARDGAY
2. Porno moustache
3. Do HOMO_DANCE.BAT
4. ???
5. WRPG!
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:34 pm 


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but... but you don't play :(
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:53 pm 


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Dark Souls doesn't make you wait for a progress bar to go up to see if you meet the 71% skill check for picking a lock or need to reload your quicksave from 5 seconds ago.


Yes, I'm still salty about Wasteland 2.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:31 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
but... but you don't play :(


Only in my mind. ~_~ In... MUH DREAMS ¦3

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I promise I will get around to BB this summer Burinju, I swear on my infamously massive balls (`ω´メ) This will be my last Year Of Hard Gayming for some time, and I do not want to put off this intriguingly 'orrible adventure further! Tragically, I am currently beset by bucket list 1LCs ;3 I GOT EM FUCKIN WITH ME FROM ALL SIDES :shock:
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:52 am 


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Nice, really looking forward to BIL's reaction to Bloodborne!
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Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.

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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:36 am 


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Yeah BIL definitely needs to play BB, it's right up his alley.
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:12 pm 


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I have been playing video games since I was a tiny kid going over to my friend's house to see his Commodore 64.

In all that time, I can think of few bosses I have ever wanted to beat the living hell out of as much as Master Helgenish.

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Seriously, fuck this guy. I only wish he had even more HP so I could have wailed on him longer with massive buffed ice avalanches and a giant angry leopard in between knife stabs.


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