Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Blinge
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

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Will I finally learn how to RP a GURL ?
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

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Necronopticous wrote:Super early look at a JRPG I have been developing with my wife over the last several months:

RPGirl - Summer 2021 Development Progress

Battle system finally coming together mechanically. Still a lot of work to be done.
Needs more Nethack. Make it so you can polymorph into a mindflayer or something.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

So I wasn't sure whether to put this here or in the Falcom thread but I really just absolutely adore the Trails series now. It's just so good, it's hard to want to play other jrpgs taking the same approach because it's so good at what it does.

ETA: Dark Souls and Ys similarly ruined other arpgs for me.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Trails in The Sky duology are objectively the best writing in any video game ever made.
RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

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Google is a Jarpig today and for a couple weeks!
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Blinge »

man that big spider under octagonia battered my party beyond all hope on its opening (first) turn
No grinding required :roll:
Last edited by Blinge on Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Sengoku Strider »

I finished Cosmic Star Heroine last night. It took me longer than I expected, I'd heard people complaining they beat it in 8 hours. Those folks clearly just rushed through it on normal (in which enemies are helpless punching bags) without exploring or talking to anyone they didn't have to. It took me just over 20 hours on heroine difficulty, I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of side content. Randomly stumbling across a certain evil entity as a late game challenge boss was pretty fun. They clearly knew their systems too, there's one late game side dungeon that stomped me into paste with the first encounter, despite my being overlevelled for the game's last boss. I looked it up online and you basically need to exploit the game's exploits to stand any kind of chance.

Overall the game is astounding for something basically made by two guys, but ultimately lands in the good but not great category. People who have an affection for Phantasy Star/FF VI/Chrono Trigger and enjoy experimenting with complicated battle systems will have a good time here. It's the Sega CD Phantasy Star we should have gotten but never did (albeit a little more light-hearted). On higher difficulties it demands a fair bit of strategizing from you, gives you a lot of close calls (unless you really figure out some of the deeper tricks), and isn't afraid to throw you into situations where you get your ass stomped.

On the other hand, they put a lot of time into quirky dialogue all over the place, but not enough into developing their main plot or establishing more about certain key characters. As a result you get kinda left-fielded at important times. The environmental art is great, but in some of the cut scenes randomly devolves into amateurish looking scribbles.

There are a lot of surprisingly high quality elements to the game, peppered with rough edges here & there that remind you it's a small team indie kickstarter title. A lack of sound effects in one element, a cheap-looking menu in another. A lack of original music for a major encounter, despite lesser moments getting some. A half baked visual effect for a useful ability, while an elaborate and well animated one for something rarely used. And a unite system they used as a kickstarter pitch that had a decent amount of work put into it, but can only be used with one mediocre item equipped and debuffs your party in ways that get them killed.

So I did enjoy it, would recommend it to those who know they're in its target audience, and did feel compelled to sit down & finish it. A lot of other "classics" I can't quite say the same for.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Sengoku Strider »

I went back to SaGa Scarlet Grace: Ambitions for my third character run through. I think I can say without reservation that this game still has the best battle system of any rpg I've ever played. It's fast, it stays engaging after your 100th battle, after your 1000th. It's very deep and complex, but unlike a lot of other battle-focused rpgs, it somehow manages to avoid being mentally fatiguing. I can be completely mentally fried at midnight after a long day, and still cruise along just fine in this for an hour or two.

It's a shame this game didn't get a higher budget, I think a lot of people overlooked it due to the visuals. It still probably wouldn't have made a big impression on casual players, but for the hardcore who know the genre inside and out, it knows exactly how to respect their time, what to streamline and what to build on.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Blinge »

man that big spider under octagonia battered my party beyond all hope on its opening (first) turn
No grinding required :roll:
Went back and visited Puerto Valor cause I skipped it before. Picked up an armour piece and some accessories, knocked out a couple of sidequests, did a fuckton more forging.

Spiderboss still ruined me but I got it on the 4th attempt. That fight was fucking grueling man!
I don't quite understand the turn order system. On attempt 3 I debuffed its agility and raised my team's. we got two rounds of turns in back to back.. but then the spider attacked four times instead of its usual two and ended me..
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by ZacharyB »

Sengoku Strider wrote:I went back to SaGa Scarlet Grace: Ambitions for my third character run through. I think I can say without reservation that this game still has the best battle system of any rpg I've ever played.
It's really great how it weaponizes turn order, this ubiquitous RPG thing that was always in the background.

I'm currently sour on it though, because I can't beat Firebringer with 4 mages >:(
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Sengoku Strider »

ZacharyB wrote:
Sengoku Strider wrote:I went back to SaGa Scarlet Grace: Ambitions for my third character run through. I think I can say without reservation that this game still has the best battle system of any rpg I've ever played.
It's really great how it weaponizes turn order, this ubiquitous RPG thing that was always in the background.

I'm currently sour on it though, because I can't beat Firebringer with 4 mages >:(
If you're trying party compositions like that I'm sure you know this, but grinding shall set you free. A lot of people say it's self-defeating in this game because enemies scale, but maxing out skills or spells and getting those 1 or 2 turn casting durations makes a huge difference. Other than that, snowstorm the jerk. I can't say I've attempted this all-mage super squad feat myself though.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Blinge »

Also holy shit I forgot to mention..

.. I cannot express how much I hate the Casino in DQ11 / puerta valor.
who could enjoy this? IRL gambling nuts?
****

Hahah the font for the FF Pixel Remasters. People are already modding it out.
fucking christ.

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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

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Sengoku Strider wrote:If you're trying party compositions like that I'm sure you know this, but grinding shall set you free. A lot of people say it's self-defeating in this game because enemies scale, but maxing out skills or spells and getting those 1 or 2 turn casting durations makes a huge difference. Other than that, snowstorm the jerk. I can't say I've attempted this all-mage super squad feat myself though.
Unfortunately, I'm playing as Taria, and I've somehow triggered the strongest variant of the Firebringer: the one that uses the Shade of Shaams attack often, which causes near-100% stuns. This of course spells instant spell nullification for even 1-turn casting times. The only way to counter it is to have people bodyguard some mages, but I've only built up one bodyguard. You can also fuss around to get more roles, to help mitigate stun chance, but it's such a time-investment for questionable gain... And all the while, the Firebringer will be developing more HP as the rank rises.

I had pinned my hopes on one of the characters I had recruited, Kreisa: pumping up her already-high Intelligence with gear, then augmenting her speed at the start of the battle and using Wildfire to deliciously stun the Firebringer before he can even act (Intelligence giving better chances for status effects). It kinda works, but, it's such a crapshoot. Even then you can only stun him every other round at best. It's a kind of battle where you go "I need this benison to activate every round or I'm screwed."

It's a little bit of a shame, because playing with 4 mages was pretty novel, up until now.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by BryanM »

Blinge wrote:Hahah the font for the FF Pixel Remasters.
Argh, I don't get why they keep doing this shit. It's slightly less awful than their previous efforts with the pregnant noodle people... still terrible. They've created art assets for these games a million times, sometimes in 3d. A serious effort would collect all of them, and allow the player to choose and toggle between what aesthetics they'd prefer to use. (As many observed, the FF6 style had a grimy, despairing steampunk thing going on and this.... argh. They disgust me. I spit on them.)

Compare it all to the new Dragon Quest 3 remake. I'd rather they just made a new game, but this aesthetic hasn't gotten completely stale yet. Has a good ~decade left in it.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

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Damn, i'm gonna buy that!
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by MX7 »

Feeling like a FOOL for completely forgetting about the Octopath'd DQ3 remake being somewhere in the pipeline and downloading the... optimised version currently on Switch. It looks more ghastly than you could imagine. At least it was only a fiver in the sale but still.

Is Octopath any good? It looks lovely but not £50 lovely.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Blinge wrote:Hahah the font for the FF Pixel Remasters. People are already modding it out.
fucking christ.
Wow, what a thoroughly awful font for something that's trying to tout its pixel art. Devs never seem to learn their lesson of not mixing very obviously different resolutions together; it's a mess when they do. The interface should visibly match the rest of the game graphics. This is probably trickier to do while supporting different languages but it's still important for the overall look and feel, and it can't be impossible to do properly...
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

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Apparently these remasters lack any of the additional content that was in GBA/PSP versions

slow clap for squeenix
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Post by Sengoku Strider »

MX7 wrote:Is Octopath any good? It looks lovely but not £50 lovely.
It's a lot like a Romancing SaGa in structure, with a dash of 16-bit Final Fantasy. I paid full price for the physical on Switch and would do so again without hesitation.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

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I should warn that in gameplay structure, it is NOT like Romancing SaGa (or any other SaGa-series game). Trying to play Octopath just reinforced to me how brilliant SaGa gameplay is:

In Octopath Traveler, you seem to be cordoned off from advancing your character's story by level. In order to advance your own story, you need to enter others' stories first to recruit them. Eventually, you reach the point where you can advance your own story, because you're now strong enough to survive the monsters there.

In a SaGa game, The enemies everywhere get stronger gradually with you, so you can usually do whatever you want and configure your party however you like (even choosing to not configure it—playing alone) as you go through your own story.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

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MX7 wrote:Feeling like a FOOL for completely forgetting about the Octopath'd DQ3 remake being somewhere in the pipeline and downloading the... optimised version currently on Switch. It looks more ghastly than you could imagine. At least it was only a fiver in the sale but still.
haha the cell phone port lolerzzzzers

I fuckin' love Squeenix's dumpster fire mobile library. Stuff nobody wants. All The Bravest. That King's Knight gacha game.

Don't you love the beautiful hand illustrations with zero animation? Animation that even the excellent Gameboy Color port had?

Ahhhhh.

Rationally you'd wonder why they didn't put the effort into making a new standalone, real, mobile Dragon Quest game, maybe toss some gacha elements on top of it? The artstyle could be classic, or they could do something close to the Octopath Traveler style. (It doesn't need a lot of horsepower, DQ7 on the Playstation 1 was an early stab at it. It only looks bad since they downgraded the sprite quality so much from DQ6.)

I understand there's reasons for this: they don't want to create stuff that competes directly with their premium console products. And they sure as hell don't want to take the risk to build a real team for these things. But of course, the quality they can get from outsourcing is very low on average: anyone that's any good is making kickass shit like ArKnights or Genshin Impact. The best Square's managed with this scheme is Brave Exvius, which is almost but not quite a real game. It's just a reskin job of a different game by the devs.

... oh, but in your case you'd have been happier with my radical "just like emulate the shit or something, and let the player decide which version they'd like to play." At least Dragon Quest is a bit more manageable with that than FF, which had alternate art sets out the gate with the MSX version.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

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ZacharyB wrote:I should warn that in gameplay structure, it is NOT like Romancing SaGa (or any other SaGa-series game)
Bro have you played Romancing SaGa 1, super famicom version?

I feel like i'm the only person who's had this crazy experience
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

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I started to play it, but I didn't finish it, though. It was mostly a curiosity, because I'd already played through the PS2 remake multiple times, and they're pretty similar in event structure.

But I'd heard that Ifrit was almost impossible in the original without abusing the Falcon Slash initiative bug, because you need like 600 HP to survive the Bird of Fire magic he uses every turn. Which is a kind of difficulty gate that reminds me of Octopath Traveler. But, they made him less cheap in the remake.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

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ZacharyB wrote:I should warn that in gameplay structure, it is NOT like Romancing SaGa (or any other SaGa-series game). Trying to play Octopath just reinforced to me how brilliant SaGa gameplay is:

In Octopath Traveler, you seem to be cordoned off from advancing your character's story by level. In order to advance your own story, you need to enter others' stories first to recruit them. Eventually, you reach the point where you can advance your own story, because you're now strong enough to survive the monsters there.

In a SaGa game, The enemies everywhere get stronger gradually with you, so you can usually do whatever you want and configure your party however you like (even choosing to not configure it—playing alone) as you go through your own story.
Sure, I wasn't thinking of it in those terms. I was recalling some people whining a whole lot when it came out, thinking it was going to be an FF VI remix and being upset that it was built around separate stories.

Incidentally, I beat Urpina's story in SaGa Scarlet Grace last night. I really enjoyed her route, more than I thought I would. I'd put it off because I'd read that she was the 'beginner' character, but the game still managed to slap me around plenty, right up to the end even with my level 50, 999 HP squad. She only seems to be a starter in the sense that I thought her story explained the world and everything going on than Taria or Balmaint's did.

Toward the end I was really thinking this game might have earned a spot on my all-time top ten, and not a low one at that. I've finished it three times now, clocked around 200 hours, and I'm ready to go back for the fourth character. The only other jrpgs I can think of that compelled me to play through them that many times were the original Dragon Warrior, and Suikoden II.

Scarlet Grace really does have the most elegant battle system I can think of, it's like Puyo Puyo with swords or something, setting off chain combos of matching characters. The final Phoenix fight where it required me to set off unite attacks for the enemies was an excellent variation, I'd loved to have seen even more of that - like unite-specific counter techniques or something. The system really does merit multiple playthroughs. Before this run I hadn't cottoned on to how useful provoke could be, to frenzy enemies and force them to attack counter characters; they'd just seemed like a waste since they use a ton of BP and I couldn't know who would be attacked. I used Tsubaki with the Elegant Ignis Seure a ton during this run, she became a definite favourite.

And there are so many other fun little systems in place - though I wish they'd made the regional goods development more consequential. Like the Village of No Presence becoming the seat of a new Northern queendom if you complete it or something.

Really wish this game had gotten a physical release over here, the Japanese LE looks great.
Blinge wrote:Bro have you played Romancing SaGa 1, super famicom version?

I feel like i'm the only person who's had this crazy experience
I own the carts for all three, but I haven't gotten to the first one yet (my rpg pile is like 50 deep). Why is it so crazy?
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Post by BryanM »

Pew, don't get me started on the corpo's refusal to make more games with the Final Fantasy 6 aesthetics. It's not like the artist and composer died after it was finished. About 99% of Granblue Fantasy's success is because Square didn't want to pick up the money they left laying on the ground. Did Square ever make a boss theme for a fat fish? Of course not! Worthless.

I've been thinking about things like liminal spaces and ASMR lately. That almost all of our media is words and music these days, environmental FX like breathing or ocean waves are just stripped bare out of the stuff. That games as a whole are too objective based, and kind of blend into a slurry because of it. Quests are like a checklist of miserable chores: the most fun I had with video games last year was glitching into that creepy glitchy mountain in Genshin Impact. There's like, a mountain inside the mountain and a one-way weird crack in the ground, isn't that the best thing~

Dragon Quest 3 is possibly my favorite game, can't beat childhood imprinting. It's also very barren when it comes to chatty narrative, and has almost no boss monsters. Capping the end of every single dungeon with a ~10+ minute long boss you won't be able to remember is probably the #1 meme I dislike the most of the 16 bit-on rpiggle era. I think DQ3's pretty good at being more of a game than a bad novel.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

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Sengoku Strider wrote:I own the carts for all three, but I haven't gotten to the first one yet (my rpg pile is like 50 deep). Why is it so crazy?
Uh, what would you patch it? or can you read japanese?

I would answer but honestly I'd prefer to hear someone's/your authentic responses to a game unfiltered by the incredulousness, wilful or otherwise, that would accompany your reading of my summary.

Fucking hell I sound like one of THOSE guys on the internet, you know the type.
also answer my question about Raiden V will you? cheers.
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Post by Sengoku Strider »

Blinge wrote:or can you read japanese?
After a period of study that took far, far too long, yeah.
also answer my question about Raiden V will you? cheers.
Sorry, didn't realize there was one. Forum could use a notification feature. No arcade mode as far as I'm aware.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by MX7 »

BryanM wrote:
MX7 wrote:Feeling like a FOOL for completely forgetting about the Octopath'd DQ3 remake being somewhere in the pipeline and downloading the... optimised version currently on Switch. It looks more ghastly than you could imagine. At least it was only a fiver in the sale but still.
haha the cell phone port lolerzzzzers

I fuckin' love Squeenix's dumpster fire mobile library. Stuff nobody wants. All The Bravest. That King's Knight gacha game.

Don't you love the beautiful hand illustrations with zero animation? Animation that even the excellent Gameboy Color port had?

Ahhhhh.

Rationally you'd wonder why they didn't put the effort into making a new standalone, real, mobile Dragon Quest game, maybe toss some gacha elements on top of it? The artstyle could be classic, or they could do something close to the Octopath Traveler style. (It doesn't need a lot of horsepower, DQ7 on the Playstation 1 was an early stab at it. It only looks bad since they downgraded the sprite quality so much from DQ6.)

I understand there's reasons for this: they don't want to create stuff that competes directly with their premium console products. And they sure as hell don't want to take the risk to build a real team for these things. But of course, the quality they can get from outsourcing is very low on average: anyone that's any good is making kickass shit like ArKnights or Genshin Impact. The best Square's managed with this scheme is Brave Exvius, which is almost but not quite a real game. It's just a reskin job of a different game by the devs.

... oh, but in your case you'd have been happier with my radical "just like emulate the shit or something, and let the player decide which version they'd like to play." At least Dragon Quest is a bit more manageable with that than FF, which had alternate art sets out the gate with the MSX version.
Even for a fiver I have the buyers remorse. It's X2 stupid because I have the SFC port fan translation sitting on my SNES mini ready to roll.

Sqeenix have been fighting the expectations of their fans for so many years. It must be hideously demoralising to keep pushing the envelope in terms of classic RPG design. Just think of how ridiculously iconoclastic the FF series is. Even VII, which seems so quaint and classical now was an ENORMOUS creative and financial risk after VI. Then after the conservative X BOOM! Mmorpg, Vagrant Story World, demented action game, another Mmorpg and then an open world twink simulator. Yet the whole time, the fans just wanted FFVII but prettier.

But yeah the cell phone ports and pixel remasters are unpopular with everyone. It feels like a massive troll
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by BryanM »

I was a bigtime Shining Force fan as a kid, and kind of always wanted to see a Dragon Warrior game like that. Especially after Final Fantasy Tactics. (And similarly, Dragon Warrior Monsters made me want to see a Final Fantasy Monsters series.)

Flash forward ten million years after it might have been relevant, and Dragon Quest Monsters: Tactics comes out on mobile a couple years back. I actually gave it a chance, and... let's say it doesn't meet expectations. Not for 1992, and certainly not 2021.

I suppose Just Breed is as close as they're ever going to get for that.

The "Final Fantasy" label has also kind of become a seal of crap. There was like 30,000 mobile games made under that name, and maybe 2 or so are still alive? I knew Explorers wasn't going to be Monster Hunter tier, but was still amazed at how shovelware-esque it was. It's kind of funny how mainline titles themselves are now usually just some random other game in predevelopment and they just slap the name on whatever after the fact. As long as there's a dude who waves a sword around and they've earmarked multiple $millions for the art budget.

If it wouldn't have been such a crippling loss for the company, they would have let FF14 go down the toilet as well. Guess that's an illustration of the profit motive: they only care about their large risk, large return gambles.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by BulletMagnet »

BryanM wrote:And similarly, Dragon Warrior Monsters made me want to see a Final Fantasy Monsters series.
This is presumably as close as you'll ever get.
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