Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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BryanM
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by BryanM »

Played a bit of Dragon Warrior yesterday and today. I do like how free and simple it is to everything else. Being able to just pick up the flute feels like a cheaty sequence break, when a lesser game would force you to go through a bunch of steps to get it. (Reminds me of that scene in Only I Know The World Is A Game where the protagonist is able to dig up a treasure chest without spending dozens of hours on a questline to make it appear. Because it's not 100% a game world.)

My current build order is Fists > Copper Sword > Scale+S.Shield+Clothes > Broadsword > Half Plate > L.Shield > Flame Sword > Silver Shield. Each point of attack power is worth 0.5 damage, while every point of defense is 0.25 points of damage reduction. By the middle of the game, the benefit of equipment is rather subtle, each upgrade being the equivalent of an average level. The Flame Sword being +4 damage, the Silver Shield being -2.5 damage...

Confirmed my old theory the hills during the initial slime hunting are slower than forests; the encounter rate in that zone is the same for the two, and the hills slow you down.

Got a little use out of the Hurt spell - killing some ghosts to get the last few sword bucks. Tussled with a scorpion a little earlier than I was ready for, during a hike.

The mountain cave gave me a Death Necklace on my second time in, which basically bought the Broad Sword upgrade on its own.

Noticed that ghosts do actually haunt you in this game! Never noticed that before. The region around Kol would be an excellent farming spot for the early->mid game transition period. 10+ gold per fight from everything, reasonable EXP, an inn a couple steps away.... but these stupid ghosts are in the encounter table and demolish your income rate. Floaty jerks.

Level 12 and I'm done. The game is a miserable repetitive slog at that point, where you get to spend hours in the Rimuldar efficiency zone until you're ready for the Axe Knight/shopping trip for the last couple meager upgrades.
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

I saw more of the FF Pixel remasters. They look pretty bad, honestly. Font's already been brought up (I suspect it's done that way to make implementing multiple languages easier), but the spritework also has issues:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysg0qs2RQdA

The White Mage's casting animation looks like they're giving the middle finger. The enemy sprites also appear to have had a cruel artist's touch applied in some cases, with the Lich's sprite being a major offender (3:17). Just look at that face, he's downright goofy as opposed to being menacing like in NES, PS1, GBA, and PSP releases. The bar was set very, very high in those remakes with the quality of artwork.

I have no doubt there'll be more complaints about the uh "remastering" of the art when the games are more widely played.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by BulletMagnet »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:The White Mage's casting animation looks like they're giving the middle finger.
They should make that a series tradition, at least when using a spell on an undead enemy. "Cure this, bitch!"
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Sengoku Strider »

Finally just bit the bullet and went & finished the last boss in my fourth playthrough of Scarlet Grace. I was nearing the 300 hour mark (across all four stories), but I realized I'd locked myself out of being able to beat a couple of the optional endgame bosses, and so wouldn't be able to summon the absolute nastiest final form of the last boss. That's okay though, I guess it's what new game+ is for anyway.

I'm coming out of this saying it's definitively in my top 5 all time. I got to the point where my characters were effectively maxed out and at new game+ capabilities, because I just never wanted to stop playing it. I feel very comfortable planting my flag here and saying this is the best combat system I've ever encountered. I've played games where I was sad it was over (always the mark of a truly great rpg). But I can't think of anything where the simple base combat was this addictive and interesting, even in the most inconsequential of battles, to the point where I was actively putting off finishing it for dozens of hours, even after playing through the whole game four times. I'm not even sure what I'd put in the same league, really. It's like Grandia crossed with Dynasty Tactics or something. Even at the 280+ hour mark I was still learning cool new things I could do, or about min/maxing under the hood calculations (which the optional endgame challenges you to do). And there's still stuff I haven't even really touched yet.

I'm going to take a break from it now and go through Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition. I've been hearing great things about this game for a decade now, looking forward to getting into it. I just hope I haven't soured what would otherwise be a great experience by having to immediately contrast it with something I liked that much.
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Vanguard
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Vanguard »

Quite a compelling recommendation! I'll look into Scarlet Grace, thanks!
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Sengoku Strider »

Vanguard wrote:Quite a compelling recommendation! I'll look into Scarlet Grace, thanks!
Just a couple of things to know ahead of time if you do decide to dive in. It began life as a Vita game for SaGa's 25th anniversary, SaGa: Scarlet Grace. It was then upgraded with extra content for the rerelease on PS4, PC & Switch as SaGa Scarlet Grace: Ambitions. So the tech overhead & budget when it was first created were not huge.

They way they dealt with that was greatly streamlining the jrpg structure. There are no random battles. You'll see a cave or a castle etc. on the world map, but when you go in there's no wandering around, you're just sent directly into the relevant battle(s).

Towns (aside from one) work the same way. You go in, see the relevant merchant options, and if there's important info to be gathered there'll be a 'converse' option where an npc (or potential pc) appears and tells you what you need to know. There are also minstrel songs and brief stage plays in towns which give you the world's lore.

You do get cinemas and party conversations, but they're not excessive.

I haven't come across anyone who's been bothered by all that, but I could see it being jarring or seeming cheap to someone who wasn't expecting it. I read reviews before going in describing it as cutting all the flab out of the jrpg and it being a game for genre veterans, and I think that characterization is mostly accurate. There's still a ton to the world, dozens of characters and piles of secrets and alternate outcomes to discover, so they were just judicious with where they spent their time.
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Vanguard
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Vanguard »

Sounds kinda like Ruina.
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Sengoku Strider »

Vanguard wrote:Sounds kinda like Ruina.
In looking at that, I get a vibe closer to old school Wizardry-style rpgs & Shadowgate-style adventure games (which are both cool). Scarlet Grace still has you running around a world map with your character and doesn't use descriptive narrative, so it's more situated in the Square jrpg template.
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Vanguard
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Vanguard »

Sengoku Strider wrote:In looking at that, I get a vibe closer to old school Wizardry-style rpgs & Shadowgate-style adventure games (which are both cool). Scarlet Grace still has you running around a world map with your character and doesn't use descriptive narrative, so it's more situated in the Square jrpg template.
The main point of similarity is that you choose a location from the map and then the game gets straight to the point with an event or boss battle or whatever. No random encounters and you don't directly control your character in towns and dungeons and such. Might be more fitting to say that Scarlet Grace sounds like a halfway point between Ruina and a conventional JRPG.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by BrainΦΠΦTemple »

jrpg autism mOment: i know the hp of most of the bOsses in ff7 (might be one or twO i'll fuck up on nowadays), ff9, ff10 (a cOuple in this i might get tripped up on if it is a multi-pArt boss -- i don't even like ff10, sO idk why i can remember boss hp), and dragon warrior 7 off the top of my head. (a bit rusty obviously, concerning the parentheses bullsHit but w/e)
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cave hermit
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by cave hermit »

So, anyone have a recommendation for a good, but (comparatively) brief turn based JRPG? I was trying Xenoblade Chronicles, and while I enjoyed the few hours spent with it, I feel the craving for something turn based.

Final Fantasy III pixel remaster (I completed the Super Famicom version of FFIV already)?
Bravely Default II?
A Saga game?
A SMT title?
Or something else entirely?
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Vanguard
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Vanguard »

cave hermit wrote:So, anyone have a recommendation for a good, but (comparatively) brief turn based JRPG? I was trying Xenoblade Chronicles, and while I enjoyed the few hours spent with it, I feel the craving for something turn based.

Final Fantasy III pixel remaster (I completed the Super Famicom version of FFIV already)?
Bravely Default II?
A Saga game?
A SMT title?
Or something else entirely?
I've found some doujin JRPGs that I strongly recommend:
Ruina: Fairy Tale of the Forgotten Ruins is a kickass tabletop-inspired JRPG that lasts about 10 hours. It's freeware and there's a link to the download in my review.
Demon King Chronicle is also quite good. It's light on story, heavy on gameplay, and runs for about 20 hours. It's hard to get a copy of the english version these days so I've uploaded a copy into my review.
Helen's Mysterious Castle is around 5 hours long and has an extremely fun, unique, and fast-paced combat system. Commercial, but it only costs $2.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by cave hermit »

So I actually ended up (re)buying Bravely Default II on PC since I found a $15 discount on it (I bought it originally on switch but barely played it).

First of all, it looks and runs leagues better on my PC. Probably to be expected given I'm going from an underclocked Tegra X1 chipset running the game at sub-720p, sub 30-fps, off of a slow loading flash ROM card to a RTX 3080 running the game at locked 1440p, 165 fps, off of a NVME SSD, but the difference is really staggering, especially since I thought the semi-chibi art style was meant to go with lower resolutions. As it turns out, the texture work on enemies really pops out on the higher resolutions. Only complaint is that I get some screen flickering sometimes, but that's probably a weird interaction between G-sync, driver level V-sync, maybe Denuvo, etc. Of course I lose portability, but really, I am named "cave hermit", I don't leave the house. Also Steam Deck will probably run the game better than Switch.

Enough PC Master Race circle jerking though, what about the game itself?

I've only played 3 or 4 hours so far, but from what I've seen, the game really makes you think in every battle, even if it's just against some basic goblins. What I mean is, there's always a better solution than just mindlessly spamming basic attacks, like even if you're against some basic low level mob, you can save some HP or MP by Braving a few times to wipe out the mobs before their turn is up.

I've heard the bosses are abnormally challenging in this game, and personally, even the first boss in the game was a bit tricky (An enemy white mage and a tank; the white mage casts Cure, Shell, and Protect on herself and the tank, while the tank taunts party members to force aggro).

Story is pretty much in line with Final Fantasy III and V, just protect the 4 crystals of the elements, with plenty of wholesome banter along the way. Not going to blow you away, but you're here for the combat first and foremost. I personally haven't played too much of III or V, but the job system seems largely in line with those games, although more fleshed out.

Again, I haven't played much of III or V, but I have beaten IV, VI, and VII, and based on my experience with those games, BDII does invoke the feel of the SNES games.

So these are all first impressions, but my first impression is good.

I'm getting a Xstation modded PSX to hook up to my PVM soon though, and I might play another JRPG concurrently with BDII; I'm thinking Suikoden 1, apparently that's a nice brief PSX JRPG.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by MX7 »

Wife and daughter are going on holiday for a week so after I finish No More Heroes 3 I'm planning on replaying Final Fantasy VI. I was pretty dissapointed the first few times I played it, for various reasons, but mainly because of the way the story and setpieces get a bit sparse after the world ends. I've been thinking about it for so long now though, and warmed to everything in my head. Playing the Relocalisation version, which is basically the GBA translation inserted in to the SNES ROM with some uncensored graphics and balances and stuff. Very excited.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by XoPachi »

Might grab that Astria Ascending game that just hit Switch. They go on about their art and "mature emotional story". Every JRPG does that. But I'm about to be there for that stat building and party customization. That shit looks legit. $40 too?
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Blinge »

Giant squid boss at sea is fucking me raw in DQ11. Even after i did big upgrades for everyone at the forge.
sumez you aint shit for this.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Sumez »

Go grind at the library or something. I keep telling you this game requires a ton of grinding.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Blinge »

what!? you said grinding is not necessary!
I haven't even found a liberry!!

ARGH!!

well i spent some time looking for metal slimes. After ages i’d find a group, and they’d all run except for one.. probably wasnt worth it.
i wrote something about people chatting bs on the internet the sys11 logged me out and i lost it. Sigh.
Boss dead serena level 23 group defense buff
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Sumez »

I'm just kidding of course. That boss screwed me up the first couple of times too. It's the kind of fight where once you figure out how to keep your footing you won't have trouble, but as long as you allow it to wipe party members it's really hard to rebound (unlike other later fights which are all about being able to rebound). It's a pretty gimmicky fight IIRC, and there are a few things you can do to help you out. Did you get the cannon from the town?

Also at this point in the game there are a bunch of other places you can go and explore. Not that much you can do there yet, but if you're having too much trouble one place it can always be helpful to come back later.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Blinge »

Just edited my post
I actually needed just 1 level for serena to get her that group buff.
that alone probably won me the fight and i wouldnt want to try many times without it.
especially when its like half 11 and i’ve gotta go to bed for work the next day holding a massive L.

supposedly this hentai monster is vulnerable to sleep. Man i didnt even try, i have been trained over the years not to! why waste a turn? What JRPG has bosses vulnerable to sleep??
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Blinge »

When you say keep your footing i assume you mean figuratively?
Or is there actually a way to stop him tripping my characters so i don’t lose them for two bloody turns
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Sumez »

Lol I mean figuratively yes :P
Every boss fight in the game is pretty much a balance game of being able to recover from shitty situation so you have enough traction to also do some damage.
Blinge wrote:supposedly this hentai monster is vulnerable to sleep. Man i didnt even try, i have been trained over the years not to! why waste a turn? What JRPG has bosses vulnerable to sleep??
DQ11 is all about the status effects, especially debuffs. There isn't a skill in the game that isn't useful in some manner, if not downright essential. Most bosses are vulnerable to most status effects, but tend to gain some resistance to them after repeat uses.
The skills that do extra damage on enemies with certain statuses (I think sleep is the first you get) are super effective, and stack well with other damage bonuses.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Blinge »

Tell you what. The last thing before I slept last night was the Luau.
Man I felt like I earned that, and as a result I enjoyed the character interactions and dialogue a lot more.

Walking around the party trying to find my party and see what they were doing was genuinely enjoyable to me.
good game. Likeable characters, even if they start out very tropey.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Sumez »

Sylvando is a king. I'm looking forward to see what you think of the game's second act.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

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He's great but my party's now Mc, Jade, Rab, Serena
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Sumez »

Oh, oh, in terms of gameplay? Yeah, Sylvando is a jack of all trades who doesn't really becomes useful until the rear end of the game where he gets some super useful skills that allow more tactical freedom.

I can't remember what my core team was at that point in the game, but I think Luminary, Serena, Veronica, and Rab? Or maybe I was still using Erik at that point. There's not really a bad combination as long as you got both def/str buffs and debuffs and a healing opportunity. Serena is probably mandatory, but Rab is nice to keep as a bit of a magic wildcard.
And always be mindful of the fact that you can switch in other characters at any moment when you need their skills. If you switch out a character that has already had its turn (before everyone resets) it's a free action. If the person you're switching out is dead, it's straight up profit. It's a tactical decision that's absolutely essential for some of the harder bosses. I'm pretty sure everyone has their use.

My least used character was Jade, but again there's one boss fight in particular where her charm skills was invaluable.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Blinge »

Oh I thought they lost a turn every time. bah!

Sylvando has accelerate all from early on, which is... kinda useful maybe!?
and a straight up attack buff I've used on Luminary before. no one else has an attack buff yet
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Sumez »

Been a hot minute, but yeah I can see it takes a short while before Veronica and Rab get their Oomph spells too.

Essentially, debuffing enemy DEF once has about the same effect as buffing ATK once - that obviously only affects one character, but it has a 100% success rate.
I'm sure you've also noticed these buffs also stack to two levels of effectiveness in each direction (later more powerful spells have a +2 or -2 effect immediately), so if a boss cast +1 DEF on itself, you need to -1 it three times to get it to the lowest possible def. There are bosses that are basically impossible to damage until you either buff or debuff to some extent.
If a +2 or -2 effect is about to run out, applying a single +/- spell will also refresh it at its full effect. The battle interface in DQ11 is really good at communicating these things compared to almost every other game in the series.

And of course -DEF and +ATK stack on eachother, but it's really rare to even get the opportunity to launch a satisfying +2 attack on an enemy with -2 defense. And the same rules of course go for the magic buff/debuff effects, but personally I didn't make that much use of that because the same people used for buffing are the ones you want to do the attacks as well. But trying out different party and skill combinations is almost free in this game. Re-speccing can be done frequently and is occasionally straight up enforced.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by XoPachi »

I'm playing FFV Advance and let me tell you something.
Thank GOD for fast forward features in emulators.
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

Post by Blinge »

Lol and FFV isn't even that bad as far as 16 bit goes
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