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 Post subject: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:28 pm 


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I think this game deserves its own thread now that it's out.

I've only just quickly gone through the first two stages (each stage is fairly substantial with both a boss and a miniboss), and so far I can already tell it's hitting all the right notes for me.
It's not ninja gaiden to the core, but never pretended to be that either. It's a bit more platforming focused (think Shatterhand or Mega Man) but it has the right elements. The sword slash is short but precise, and feels good, most zakos go down in one hit.
The level design is nice, and the enemies are very well designed, with some good ideas thrown in. It really feels like a game designed specifically for me and my tastes. :P

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It has a few secrets to go for, and it doesn't seem to have a lives system as such, at least not playing on Normal Mode. So as of what I've seen so far, no notion of a 1CC clear, though it feels like it is built with one in mind, and I'm curious to see what will be unlocked after the first clear.

I'm not sure what the consequences are, if there are any, but there seems to be a few things you can do which the game makes notice of. For example you can destroy the little robots that are sent out to give you exposition dialogue, and there seems to be unique things to go for with the stage bosses at least. For the first one, I quickly discovered a super easy way to cheese it and end the fight quickly, and the guy subsequently commented on me fighting without honor for doing so. I thought that was pretty cool.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:21 pm 


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Yeah picking this up today for sure.

One minute edit - Purchased: )

Sumez wrote:
the guy subsequently commented on me fighting without honor for doing so. I thought that was pretty cool.


A shinobi would know the difference between honor and victory
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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:38 pm 


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Ninjas and shit. Steam link: https://store.steampowered.com/app/861250/Cyber_Shadow/


Last edited by Udderdude on Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:57 pm 


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Played through the first stage twice - beat the boss honorably and then the 2nd time he said I had none.

Pretty much echo what Sumez has said so far. Definitely has that Sunsoft Batman vibe going. EDIT Oh shit, MM said this in another thread. Sorry homey.

I will say that on my 2nd trip through stage 1 I ripped through it: )

More later.
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Last edited by Stevens on Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:49 am 


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Been watching this one with interest, liking the first impressions ITT!
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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:58 am 


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Stevens wrote:
Pretty much echo what Sumez has said so far. Definitely has that Sunsoft Batman vibe going.


:(
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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:27 am 


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Fixed!

Also presuming you like it better than The Messenger?
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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:13 am 


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:)

Yes, better than the Messenger, but still not the Ninja Gaiden-alike I was expecting. However that may change once I unlock all the moves and can streak across the screen like in the trailer?
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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:16 am 


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Just DLed this and first impressions are that this game could be something very special. If anything it reminds me more of Natsume's Shadow of the Ninja than of Ninja Gaiden.

Looking forward to playing through the rest. Seems like a must play for people who like this style of game. Feels as good or better than Inti Creates games like the 8 bit Bloodstained games and Blaster Master Zero yet it was primarily made by one guy. Ridiculously impressive stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:17 am 


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Stevens wrote:
Played through the first stage twice - beat the boss honorably and then the 2nd time he said I had none.

Wait, so it doesn't depend on how you fight him? :(

Mischief Maker wrote:
:)
However that may change once I unlock all the moves and can streak across the screen like in the trailer?

NG is such a unique game, and I don't feel like Cyber Shadow tries to be like it at all. Its pace and momentum is all really different. Well, maybe a bit similar to the third Ninja Gaiden which of course plays a lot more "traditionally" than the first two.

Either way, it at least deserves some comparison. Genre-wise it's still the same ballpark, and it's definitely no The Messenger.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:56 am 


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You get dishonorable if you hit the first boss from behind. I didn't even think of trying it and got the honorable achievement.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:50 am 


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Yeah he's pretty easy either way, I just didn't want to pass up a chance to speedkill a boss.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:19 pm 


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So it's by Yacht Club? that's a good pedigree imo, as some of you may know ^_^
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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:25 pm 


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Does it have any cinematics? Seems like people always forget the best aspect of Ninja Gaiden when making their homages... not that this doesn't look great.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:39 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
So it's by Yacht Club? that's a good pedigree imo, as some of you may know ^_^

Published by YC, developed by MekaSkull.
Reached Chapter 5, but got sort of stuck when I couldn't quite figure out the timing on parry mechanic yet. Overall the game feels very solid so far. I actually got the dishonorable notion from the first proper boss even though I don't remember standing behind him. However I did manage to stand between him and his shot while flailing on him so maybe that triggers the message as well.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:07 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
Played through the first stage twice - beat the boss honorably and then the 2nd time he said I had none.

Wait, so it doesn't depend on how you fight him? :(


The 2nd time I started hitting him as soon as he came out, so that might have been it.

Rastan78 wrote:
If anything it reminds me more of Natsume's Shadow of the Ninja than of Ninja Gaiden.


Only dabbled in SOTN, but that is what it reminded me of as well if for no other reason there is no crouch.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:09 pm 


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The lack of a crouch definitely serves a game like this well, IMO. Ninja Gaiden could probably lose its crouch and be no worse for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:58 pm 


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Only judging by the first three stages the game feels fairly easy. Not so much that the stage design is a cakewalk, but it's the amount of hits you can take and the forgiving checkpoint system that keep you going. Bosses seem well designed and do require learning their basic patterns and patiently choosing your shots. You won't be just sloppily mashing your way through the bosses after the first one or two which bodes well.

I'm sure it will ramp up nicely later and have some tough areas. Long way to go. So far the difficulty feels similar to Shovel Knight. You get the feeling of playing an NES game brought into line with modern gamers' expectations of challenge. You'll take plenty of deaths on your first play, but never really get punished for it.

This game actually seems to have a lot in common with Shovel Knight, so it makes perfect sense why Yacht Club would pick this up to publish. You have the 8 bit plus graphics, player friendly difficulty curve, the overall sense that each area of a level was well thought out and brings some variety compared to what came before. There's that general high sense of polish for an indie title.
Also it's a synthesis of several influences just like Shovel Knight. I also went in sort of expecting a Ninja Gaiden clone, but it's really it's own game. So far new enemy types, hazards, and unlockable skills have been introduced at a steady pace. This is not something that was just slapped together.

I like the approach they took to the level structure. Its kind of a metroidvania lite. You get the feeling of playing a tightly focused linear game with some sense of exploration, secret hunting. You pass secret areas, some you can already reach and some you can't yet ,ala Metroid. I think a full on metroidvania structure with the potential of bloat and aimless backtracking that brings would have been a bad choice here though.There's just enough there to make it feel that it's not just a series of arcadey bite sized levels, but the level design is tight and you don't feel like you're just wandering around looking for a cracked wall.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:41 pm 


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Stevens wrote:
Rastan78 wrote:
If anything it reminds me more of Natsume's Shadow of the Ninja than of Ninja Gaiden.


Only dabbled in SOTN, but that is what it reminded me of as well if for no other reason there is no crouch.


You can crouch in Shadow/Kage, I recommend it. :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:18 pm 


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Played it through yesterday via Game Pass, completed it 100% in 5½ hours. Worth the playthrough but not a game I feel any incentive returning to, the bullshit definitely ramped up eventually with some annoying enemy placements designed to knock you into one-hit kills that bypass mercy invincibility when checkpoints were a bit sparse. It started feeling like busywork getting from the checkpoint to the place where I died sometimes.

Not being able to crouch never stopped feeling unnatural though.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:08 pm 


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KennyMan666 wrote:
Played it through yesterday via Game Pass, completed it 100% in 5½ hours.


When you say 100% you mean all hidden stuff and trophies and what not?


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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:21 pm 


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Rastan78 wrote:
KennyMan666 wrote:
Played it through yesterday via Game Pass, completed it 100% in 5½ hours.


When you say 100% you mean all hidden stuff and trophies and what not?

Ah, not all Feats, just all hidden upgrades. When I say that I finished it 100%, I mean that my save file said 100%. I've never been one for achievement hunting.

I did get one of the feats by glitching the game while secret hunting, though. Went through a hole in the ceiling that I thought might hide a secret, but instead got stuck up there and eventually the game gave me the Feat for being airborne for 30 seconds, so I must have just gotten stuck in the air, though I could move left and right. Turned out to be a softlock, I couldn't get back down, so I had to quit and reload my file.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:48 pm 


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Cool. I'll try to finish it up tonight then. I was sorta looking for something short but sweet.

I'm the same when it comes to achievements, unless it was something I wanted to do anyway like play on hard mode etc.

At first I didn't realize that those upgrades at the checkpoints stay unlocked permanently, so I was saving all my money. Might as well unlock the ones before a boss fight or a tough section that you'll have to repeat. I had been thinking if I die I'll just lose the upgrades so why bother?


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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:05 am 


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Forget what I said about feeling like a 1CC design, the game is way too long for that.
I'm sure there'll be no death runs of it out there in no time of course, and plenty of speedruns. And there are built in achievements acknowledging that. I doubt it'll be that hard for people, but the thought of going for an approach like that feels exhausting to me, to the point where there's not much point to it.
Cyber Shadow is just really long for a game of this type. I haven't had that much time for playing over the past two days, but I've played several hours and I'm still not through.

It's one aspect of the game where you can really tell that it tries to feel "modern" enough to maintain a wider appeal, rather than falling into a niche arcade category, and for an approach like that, the infinite lives structure honestly makes sense.
And it's really hard to fault the game for it, because MekaSkull did such a great job with it. It's brimming with content, and every new area introduces new ideas. It's an incredibly beefy game, and I think most people will love it.

As such it's also kinda hard to rate how "hard" the game is. I've been dying a lot, but I've probably also been playing pretty carelessly knowing that deaths in the game don't really matter.
I gotta admit I can probably see where people are coming from in terms of the "BS" design I've heard reported a few times now. Designing a smooth action game in this style is difficult, and overall you can tell Meka knows what he's doing and has the right mindset - but there are just a few places every now and then where the combination of obstacles you're faced with doesn't play well intuitively, and it very easily feels unfair even if it's not necessarily difficult. At the end of the day, it's never much of an issue because dying in the game doesn't matter, for better or worse...


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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:57 am 


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Not going to look it up until after I'm done with the game, but I think it might have some SOTN-style hidden moves? During one boss fight I accidentally activated some blue force field looking slash attack while mid-air. I haven't been able to replicate it since.
EDIT: I'm silly, I think what happened was probably I accidentally activated a parry. I really dig the parrying mechanic in this game actually. It's pretty unique for this style of game, but works very well in the context.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:57 am 


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Also curious if anyone figured out what to do in this kinda hidden room?

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You can destroy the robots, can't touch the cat, and you can't interact with any of them. If you've taken damage, the biggest robot will drop a healing item for you if you stand around for a few seconds (but not if you're moving around). That's all I've figured out at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:09 pm 


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I found that room too but couldn't figure out anything more to do in it.

Also that's a lot of essence, I never had more than a few hundred stocked up since I activated many of the checkpoint extras.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:18 pm 


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Haha, I haven't used a single one. Felt kinda like cheating, though most of the time I don't really see them serving any purpose :)


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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:40 pm 


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5 1/2 hours to clear the game plus backtrack to get all the items 100% seems really well done. I've probably got over 4 or 5 hours in and I'm at level 8. Granted my whole play time was really far back from the screen laying down with a baby passed out on top of me lol.

I was psyched to unlock the parry as a long time Third Strike player. Jumping up and doing an air parry is especially satisfying. That one boss that jumps around and throws hadoukens though? I found them super hard to parry consistently. It must be all the years of muscle memory. In 3S I can parry ex fireballs, supers and never miss a beat. As a Hugo player maybe it's adjusting to doing a parry motion with a character about the size of Hugo's foot. I was always doing it too early.

It does get tougher. I took a bunch of deaths on that stage where you get chased by a big pink wall of flesh and spikes. The checkpoint system makes a lot of sense as you can just throw lives at the wall until you get through and then you're set. That setup does make sense for a modern platform. You see it in games like Celeste but to the extreme. Dedicated players can always go for an ultra tough one life clear or speedrun. But inexperienced players still have a chance and don't have to repeat sections they've already done. Best way to compromise and keep the most players happy in this day and age.

Did anyone else find that Mekadragon (shout out to first boss in Dragon's Trap?) fight frustrating? I hate falling down and getting stuck in the water. It seemed like sometimes I had enough floating platforms to work with and sometimes not. I just got lucky after 5 or 6 tries and got under him and spammed the rising upper fireball thingy.

I was doing no upgrades at first. A lot of them are actually very useful. You know those obstacles that are a large core with a red dot that have spinning spike balls? You hit the core to freeze the balls and then whack the balls or run by? With the charge shot upgrade you can one shot the whole thing. The upgrade to your sword reach is always nice. Theres a shield that let's you block everything. I'm sure people will figure out how to abuse some of these things.

Overall I'm totally impressed by this game. They just keep throwing new ideas and mechanics at you and nothing overstays its welcome. Absolutely love the aesthetic.

If there's anything less great, its the story. Yeah, yeah another dead person on the ground. Something vague about "essence." Whatever. But who cares? Its not like the games that inspired this had fleshed out sagas. Maybe if the corpses and the computer screens and all that don't say something interesting then just cut it out completely? I like how a game like Super Metroid created so much atmosphere without using on screen text. Dig the little cut scenes though.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyber Shadow
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:40 pm 


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Rastan78 wrote:
I was psyched to unlock the parry as a long time Third Strike player. Jumping up and doing an air parry is especially satisfying. That one boss that jumps around and throws hadoukens though? I found them super hard to parry consistently.

Yeah I thought the requirements for that challenge was a little tight, but at least you aren't required to do it that way.
You need at least 14 parries, and at least with my healthbar I couldn't survive missing more than three of those. When I finally did get him down with only parries I'd only missed one, so it wasn't that bad. The window is fairly large, but it's very easy to miss in the heat of the action.

Quote:
I was doing no upgrades at first. A lot of them are actually very useful. You know those obstacles that are a large core with a red dot that have spinning spike balls? You hit the core to freeze the balls and then whack the balls or run by? With the charge shot upgrade you can one shot the whole thing. The upgrade to your sword reach is always nice. Theres a shield that let's you block everything. I'm sure people will figure out how to abuse some of these things.

Are you talking about those beefs that you can get which will last until you've taken three hits? Or did I miss some kind of upgrade system in the game. :O


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