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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:31 am 


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I bought the game with the free Stadia deal because I assumed it was going to suck on my PS4 Pro and I'm glad that I did. I'm generally opposed to Stadia as a concept, but for a game like this it seemed acceptable and the input lag isn't bad at all connected to LAN. It runs smoothly (on a 200mpbs connection) at 60fps and I've only experienced very intermittent glitches.

I've put probably ten hours into the game so far (enough to make it past the splash screen). I was prepared to hate it at first and it does still seem a bit 'Neonliberal' as opposed to cyberpunk, but the story does kick off and get pretty immersive after a while. The inventory/stats system is stupid and the combat and open world aspects seem mostly an afterthought, but if you just play the main story with the odd digression here and there it really isn't bad at all and the environments are pretty top notch at points. I don't think it tops RDR2 as far as this type of thing goes, but I can't knock it too hard and it seems like most of the flack has to do with the shitty console performance rather than the game itself.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:40 am 


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The more I play, the more I think it might actually have been much better re-tooled as a shooter along Deus Ex lines.
I intervened in one of the police situations on the map last night. Baddies at one side of a warehouse, police at the other.
First time I tried it, I snuck down one side and found an enemy that ignored me while I shot him in the head for a few minutes, but it barely dented him as I assume I need to level up. When he eventually noticed I was there, he dropped me with one shot. Tried again with the same result, basically I can't damaged anyone in that area at the moment. Works in a turn based game, just feels stupid in first-person with guns.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:12 pm 


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Do they have a skull above their heads? There's certain areas that have stronger enemies that are difficult to go into until you level up, kinda like it is in the Bethesda titles.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:09 pm 


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Got my third ending last night, putting a close to the game for me at this point. 56 hours or so in. Overall enjoyed it a lot, but it's certainly deserving of a lot of its criticism. No spoilers, just inane babble.

Funny, because after my initial "no bad bugs for me" comment I got absolutely overloaded with them. Most still varied from comical to slightly annoying, but I wound up having a good handful of times where dialogue was overlapped or skipped, characters disappeared, my character stuck and having to force a reload. Lots of silly shit like characters in T-pose or people and items stuck in the ground, whatever, but during critical story moments it really started to impact my enjoyment. Really frustrating when someone is telling me goodbye and the dialogue automatically skips or replays itself and the emotion is ruined. During a finale my character's clothes disappeared and I had some random Ed Hardy shirt on and fucking daisy dukes. I reload and walk through this lengthy segment again (I can't save for some reason) and my clothes are back--but the booty shorts are over my pants! Where the fuck did they come from; they're not even in my inventory! It's all I've got, man! My fantasy world destroyed.

Some complaints seem like witch-huntery, like complaints about gunplay or driving. Guns are solid, if maybe just *slightly* floaty, but anytime I missed it was my own fault. So I can't tell if it's scrubbery talking when I'm reading that or people are experiencing something I'm not. Driving is the same way. Like GTA, when I'm driving a shit car it usually handles like ass; some stuff drives like a dream, other stuff drifts too much or doesn't turn as sharp. I see no problem here. I could zoom in and out at top speeds between traffic no problem.

I could see skills and leveling getting revamped in the future with updates. It's not balanced at all in its present state. I did about everything I could and exhausted most meaningful quests at my 56 hours, with an end level of 28 or 29. Early in the game I found items that were almost another 10 levels past that. Even in my early 20s my character was an absolute monster on Normal difficulty. You can see all enemies with a hack, then with a power sniper rifle shoot their silhouettes through multiple walls and machinery and nobody can locate you since you're not even in the building. I never even came close to maxing out any of the main attributes. Each have a separate perk tree, which again seems highly unbalanced. You really have to focus on a select one to reach the end of each tree, but even then these don't seem well thought-out. For instance, with rifles there's multiple, high-level perks just revolving around reload time and recoil that I couldn't access, yet I could readily select important skills like higher damage output. It'd be different if this was turn-based or something, but the fact that the player has full control of the gun you can just pull your mouse down and negate the recoil. It's supremely odd how obsessed this game is with your recoil. Some skills provide you with the power to open up doors, but unlike System Shock or Deus Ex or something similar, most (if not almost all) of these doors can just be accessed a little down the hall, zero skills required. There's definitely a lot of fluff here.

For your weapons and armor there's plenty of options. No real complaint there. You can modify weapons with different scopes and modifications that enhance damage properties, etc. Loot is randomized like in Diablo, so most items won't be exactly the same, despite being the same item. Everything is generated as Common, Rare, Epic, Legendary, with some unique weapons being Iconic and having additional options. I dig this aspect. One thing I don't dig is the amount of garbage loot you get. The world is strewn with ashtrays, playing cards, and random junk that sells for next to nothing, clogging up your inventory. You have a quick heal for your health 'packs', but the game also throws just absolutely dozens of other random healing items like burritos and soda, which I never used. Again these just load up your inventory and don't provide anything. Same with shards, or essentially PDAs and notes. I read the first handful but eventually ignored these as there's not much thought put into them, despite their purported world-building intention. They're absolutely everywhere to points of absurdity, even in final missions just scattered haphazardly on desks.

But back to the dialogue problem. This is one of my big hang-ups with the game. Fallout 4 had similar complaints. You get dialogue options which are condensed. You choose one and they're expanded upon and delivered eloquently, or so that's the point. I get it, when you've got a protagonist that speaks all the dialogue it seems silly to display it all out on screen beforehand. But what gets you into trouble, maybe not by your choice, but the 'emotions' of your character, is that often you don't say what you think your choice means and it's highly aggravating. Sometimes it's a gamble what tone my character will answer in. I'll pick an option that I think is providing support or inquiring more into something, then he'll be an absolute dickhead and insult them! You'll also get timed responses, most of which seem completely superfluous. You'll think it's something important but it's usually just the same garbage that has no bearing on the outcome. It's all very perplexing.

This game really messes with my emotions. I get all immersed and have a heart-to-heart with a character and exhaust dialogue options, then I walk by him again and I get the "WADDYA WANT CAN'T YA SEE I'M BUSY" auto-dialogue like an Elder Scrolls title, or when a character potentially says goodbye forever I get strange facial animations or a flat "just be yourself". I might die here, fuck! I make these long, meaningful connections over 50 hours and these characters change. It does such a great job with the dialogue sometimes and I feel like my choices mattered and impacted my relationship, then all of a sudden we hate each other again and my character is a huge dick and we just kinda part ways. Some of this just feels like an afterthought, rushed maybe. Towards the end there's a big deus ex machina character that's kinda ehhh and makes me question what, if anything, this game intends or tries to say. One of three endings I got felt good but left a lot of holes and unfulfilled answers. The thought, "this should be better" kept popping up in my head over and over as it came to a close. As much as you try, you're still just the protagonist with little glimpses of the character you created shining through.

I know that's probably a lot of bitching and probably a lot of nonsense. I'm at work and I write like ass anyway, but it's probably more negative than I intended. I do really like the game. I already miss it, the characters. It excels the most with your interactions and the relationships you build, sans those occasional perplexing dialogue options that I mentioned. It's a shame there's not more focus on that. Everything just usually leads to murdering people or stealth stashing them in the same conveniently placed boxes in every hallway. There's a lot to be enjoyed here, but a lot to be disappointed by as well.


Last edited by drauch on Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:07 pm 


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drauch wrote:
During a finale my character's close disappeared and I had some random Ed-Hardy shirt on and fucking daisy dukes. I reload and walk through this lengthy segment again (I can't save for some reason) and my clothes are back--but the booty shorts are over my pants! Where the fuck did they come from; they're not even in my inventory!

:lol: Despite it all it sounds like there's some compelling stuff in there. I'll probably give it a try down the road after it's gone through some revisions.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:59 pm 


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I actually refunded my copy of Cyberpunk, I wanted to see next level polish, and I got the exact opposite. I plan to use this refund money to buy the digital version of Gloomhaven, along with Crusader Kings 3.

I just hope that eventually Cyberpunk will gain the proper level of polish, and then I can rebuy it on discount.
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Last edited by cave hermit on Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:07 pm 


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13 million sales so far, despite launch disaster.

If this game wasn't so closely connected with the survival of GOG, I probably would be in the "let it burn" crowd, but here I am cheering for a game I feel at best ambivalent towards.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:15 am 


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Wow, basically every single bullet point of Drauch's summary of the game matches pretty much exactly what I was expecting of the game, for better or worse. XD

Btw, I also played the finale of Witcher 3 without pants, not due to a glitch, but due to stupid level requirements of crafted gear, and the games reluctancy to give you any more EXP once you reached the level it thinks you should have.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:23 pm 


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Given how GOG backed down to China over the release of Devotion, I'm less than sympathetic to their plight.

https://twitter.com/GOGcom/status/1339227388438306817
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:55 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
Wow, basically every single bullet point of Drauch's summary of the game matches pretty much exactly what I was expecting of the game, for better or worse. XD

Btw, I also played the finale of Witcher 3 without pants, not due to a glitch, but due to stupid level requirements of crafted gear, and the games reluctancy to give you any more EXP once you reached the level it thinks you should have.


incidentally, not long after you mentioned it, Witcher 2 dropped to less than three quid on Xbox. It now sits in the queue :D
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:19 pm 


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cj iwakura wrote:
Given how GOG backed down to China over the release of Devotion, I'm less than sympathetic to their plight.


I just want a reliable source of DRM-free gaming.

Desura went tits up, Gamersgate petered out their DRM-free offerings, now Humble Store is doing the same. There are games I have that if they weren't DRM-free and I hadn't burned them to disk, would be lost to me forever.

If GOG dies, PC gaming turns into a glorified rental service. A FULL-PRICE glorified rental service.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:21 pm 


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Marc wrote:
incidentally, not long after you mentioned it, Witcher 2 dropped to less than three quid on Xbox. It now sits in the queue :D

That's a massive amount of value for money.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:25 pm 


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Marc wrote:
incidentally, not long after you mentioned it, Witcher 2 dropped to less than three quid on Xbox. It now sits in the queue :D


Thanks for the heads-up. Checked Steam and it's the same. Witcher 1 is a buck fifty as well. Purchased. I've yet to play either one; is it necessary to play 1 before 2?


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:28 pm 


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No, even though the same characters are featured, the stories are seperate for all three games. And you'll feel like you're missing out on some details whether you've played them all or none of them. :P
I guess that ties into the fact that it's based on a book series.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:34 pm 


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Mischief Maker wrote:
cj iwakura wrote:
Given how GOG backed down to China over the release of Devotion, I'm less than sympathetic to their plight.


I just want a reliable source of DRM-free gaming.

Desura went tits up, Gamersgate petered out their DRM-free offerings, now Humble Store is doing the same. There are games I have that if they weren't DRM-free and I hadn't burned them to disk, would be lost to me forever.

If GOG dies, PC gaming turns into a glorified rental service. A FULL-PRICE glorified rental service.


GOG are slowly trying to turn into a DRM service, though. Galaxy is practically required now, you have to dig to find a way to get games other than through their app. I give it two years before they go full DRM, mark my words.

vol.2 wrote:
Marc wrote:
incidentally, not long after you mentioned it, Witcher 2 dropped to less than three quid on Xbox. It now sits in the queue :D


Thanks for the heads-up. Checked Steam and it's the same. Witcher 1 is a buck fifty as well. Purchased. I've yet to play either one; is it necessary to play 1 before 2?


No, but I think 1 has the stronger story(and very arguably a more fun battle system).
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:49 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
No, even though the same characters are featured, the stories are seperate for all three games. And you'll feel like you're missing out on some details whether you've played them all or none of them. :P
I guess that ties into the fact that it's based on a book series.


But the games are set after the Saga and Geralt conveniently has Amnesia to stop it fucking with the books' lore :lol:

I'm the real Witcher fan here because while I've only played one, I read the whole saga. 8)
It was mediocre LOL
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:41 pm 


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cj iwakura wrote:
I give it two years before they go full DRM, mark my words.

If they do that they'll have jettisoned the main reason most people would bother to buy from them, and they've already lost a lot of hard-won goodwill with the ongoing Cyberpunk boondoggle parade as it is.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:31 pm 


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cj iwakura wrote:
No, but I think 1 has the stronger story(and very arguably a more fun battle system).


Hard disagree there. The combat is basically Diablo with a mild timing element. I was intending a fighter build instead of caster, but the leftover points I put into Igni had me clearing out entire rooms in one move.

And the whole "collecting baseball cards by getting laid" system was embarassing. Better Witcher 2's "We're opening our game with full frontal female nudity, bring your strongest GPU" crassness.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:13 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:29 am 


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cj iwakura wrote:
Given how GOG backed down to China over the release of Devotion, I'm less than sympathetic to their plight.

https://twitter.com/GOGcom/status/1339227388438306817


Yeah this was complete bullshit. That's a game I was wanting to try out because it looks super cool.

RE Gog and DRM: If they go hard DRM, I'm out. I've spent quite a bit there over the years too. I don't want to do the math by looking through my order history but 793 games at the moment...

RE Witcher 1: I thought the game was super awesome. I don't mind the jank ass gameplay. It's more important to me that the game had character and wasn't open world. Yes Igni is comically broken I slaughtered the final boss with it after chugging potions. Idk what I was expecting but I was overprepared so I became a death machine. It's fun but has flawed gameplay, like most entries in the genre. I don't play this genre for the gameplay.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:49 am 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
cj iwakura wrote:
Given how GOG backed down to China over the release of Devotion, I'm less than sympathetic to their plight.

https://twitter.com/GOGcom/status/1339227388438306817


Yeah this was complete bullshit. That's a game I was wanting to try out because it looks super cool.


It's phenomenal. If you have to go through other routes, so be it. It's that good. If anyone knows how to support Red Candle in so doing, though, by all means.

Quote:
RE Gog and DRM: If they go hard DRM, I'm out. I've spent quite a bit there over the years too. I don't want to do the math by looking through my order history but 793 games at the moment...

RE Witcher 1: I thought the game was super awesome. I don't mind the jank ass gameplay. It's more important to me that the game had character and wasn't open world. Yes Igni is comically broken I slaughtered the final boss with it after chugging potions. Idk what I was expecting but I was overprepared so I became a death machine. It's fun but has flawed gameplay, like most entries in the genre. I don't play this genre for the gameplay.


Witcher 1 has one of my favorite quotes:
"You've got balls, Witcher."
"You're apt to lose yours soon."
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:25 pm 


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Why would GOG (even) exist if they had DRM? Origin and Uplay aren't successful and they have significantly bigger development houses behind them. All Origin and Uplay do is add another log in step for Steam users; that's all. At most that's all GOG could be with DRM: another ghost town Origin/Uplay thing. The question: could CDProjekt afford to maintain a useless store?

I understand the anger over the bad release, but the reaction is getting out of hand. CDProjekt isn't EA. If the attack continues, they will go under. That means the game will never get finished--and the IP will end up with EA or Disney. Do you want EA or Disney taking over The Witcher? Do you want Cyberpunk to get finished? Do you love DRM?

How many kilos of flesh do we need?
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:16 pm 


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Coincidentally, I'm burning my GOG library to disk this weekend. Let's hear it for 100 GB BDR-XLs!
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:33 pm 


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New York Times ran a year-end story that includes the failure of 2077 as a significant event of 2020. You have to fuck up pretty bad for the Times to pay attention to a video game like that. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/19/styl ... aster.html


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:59 pm 


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This is why IDG1GF how long M2's Toaplan Project takes. There's a million other games/films/albums/etc to enjoy while they ensure the helicopter doesn't become a submarine at takeoff only to resurface in a thong and sporting a gigantic cock.
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Last edited by BIL on Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:05 am 


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Cyberpunk 20.77 FPS.

BIL wrote:
This is why IDG1GF how long M2's Toaplan Project takes. There's a million other games/films/albums/etc to enjoy while they ensure the helicopter doesn't become a submarine at takeoff only to resurface in a thong and sporting a gigantic cock.


Can we get this in an arrange mode at least?


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:12 am 


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Yes. Pls screenshot + forward to M2 PREZ (■`ω´■) He can have it 4 FREE as long as he calls it...

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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:19 am 


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For those of you disappointed because you really had your heart set on a sci-fi CD Projekt Red-style open world RPG, may I suggest Seven: The Days Long Gone?

It's a much smaller in ambition but infinitely more successful in execution game by a studio made up of several CDPR devs set in a sci-fi post-apocalyptic world.

I wrote a more detailed review in my Unique games list at caltrops.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:25 am 


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My one decent session with this over Xmas was weird. I’m not great with games like this because I may not play them every day, so a lot of the time I forget who is who, where I’m going, and more importantly, why I should give a shit - hardly great for an RPG as such. So on my last attempt, I was pretty much ready to give up on it. Then I found a side gig that played out like a Deus Ex/Thief mission – ghosted inside, avoided everyone until the objective, got out without being seen – and ended up convinced it was brilliant. Straight after that it occurred to be that stealth is pretty much like the original Deus Ex – clumsily crouching and crawling from crate to crate, and that we’d done away with that with Human Revolution’s brilliant take on it. Then I took on another mission that was just mundane and bored me so much that I just shot everyone. Then there all the times that the hacking seems to serve next to no purpose, the gear is an interchangeable jumble of rubbish, the perks don’t really factor in at all…. Then I got a scene while Keanu tried to talk to me very seriously, while an abandoned cigarette hovered six feet off the floor between our faces. It’s an enjoyable, half-baked mess.

The city itself is the star, after all that work, they should re-tool it for another game. The core itself it fine, but there’s just too much extraneous fluff. Honestly, give It the Human Revolution interface, chop all the fat, and you could have something really special here.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:01 pm 


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Uninstalled it last night. To sum up for me:

Gorgeous world, great (main) characters and story so far (30 hours)
On the other hand, there were so many randoms calling me with offers of work and/or spewing story, I quickly stopped caring.
Gunplay is weak. Not as weak as Fallout 4, but still poor. Not sure you can make ranged weapons and number-based combat work in real-time.
Stealth and hacking literally are no more advanced than Deus Ex / System Shock 2.
Too much clutter. Yes, it was impressive back in the Deus Ex days when you could interact with everything. Now there's just so much shit lying around, it actually sucks most of the fun out of poking around for good stuff.
Crafting is all but pointless.
Guns are mostly interchangeable.
Dialogue options will sometimes trigger a completely different response than you though you'd selected.

I'm sad not to spend any more time in the world itself, but I'd had enough of wading through mediocrity to spend time there.
I'm intrigued to see it running on a next-gen console, but not enough so to bother playing it again.

Witcher 2 next maybe.
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XBL & Switch: mjparker77 / PSN: BellyFullOfHell


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