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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:46 pm 


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I just got a full refund for the physical PS4 edition :)

Will be interesting to see how they want me to ship it to Poland... At least they promised to cover the shipping expenses too.

I agree with most everything Marc says above, though I surprisingly found the gunplay to be really, really good. But only after tweaking settings for 5 hours to find the sweetspot :D Left at default settings it doesn't play well at all.

I might give it another try once they release a patched version physically. These discs are beyond worthless as the game, more than any other, is completely unplayable without the patch installed. By far the most broken and buggy game I've ever played. I've played several hundred hours of Skyrim, Fallout 3 and 4 and it's not even close. 35 hours of Cyberpunk on PS5 and it has crashed 25 times, not to mention the insane amount of other bugs. Not just talking number of bugs, but the variety too. If you can think of a specific bug type it's quite possible you'll encounter it in this game :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:28 am 


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Official Apology Video

Just as long as you keep GOG afloat, you fucks!
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:16 pm 


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Well Crowbcat's video about sums it up. There's clearly more to it than bugs.

https://youtu.be/omyoJ7onNrg
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:08 am 


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The sad thing is, they'll continue to patch it, it'll be pretty decent two years from now, and all this will be forgotten.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:08 pm 


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Marc wrote:
I’m not great with games like this because I may not play them every day, so a lot of the time I forget who is who, where I’m going, and more importantly, why I should give a shit - hardly great for an RPG as such.

Now that's a quotation. Full marks. I for one am even less at the things, these days. If that's even possible. Give me a 100 Hours-long epic to play; I'm like: what?
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:35 pm 



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This whole debacle cracks me up. It's so symptomatic of our times. Yet another proof that modern "gamers" are the worst enemy of gaming, and that social media continues to bring the worst out in people, with pitchfork mobs and hate snowballs being now considered as serious opinion givers.

The "omg bugs !!111!1" angle is quite hilarious when you consider its astonishing hypocrisy. It could be understood when assorted twittertubers spam this water is wet message because they will do anything for likes/retweets/subs, but when the allegedly serious outlets are joining in, not so much. And voices pointing out that bugs in very complex games (espcially new IPs) are absoultely normal, and that delaying games result in death threats these dyas, are drowned in the me-too rush to join this merry circlejerk.

The console angle could be perhaps justified - I don't have one so can't say - but I strongly suspect it's also part of the mass hysteria. Performance of a next gen game suffers on last gen hardware -who'd've thunk? Yeah, CDPR should be castigated for draconian embargos, but it's not like it's something we haven't seen before (ie all the time) either

As for gameplay, that's the Hypocrisy, Pt 2. All of the sudden everyone got woke and decided to exorcise the modern gaming tropes. I'm sure it's a genuine feeling, and not at all just looking for another stick and excuse to make a cool vid/tweet.

Myself, I'm having a deja vu from Watchdogs/NMS times. The unreasonable wave of BS which this game has triggered is very similar. So far, I've played C2077 for about 50hrs, and was mostly very well entertained. Saw a handful of unimportant bugs (sure, if I made a 1 min vid about them it'd look pretty bad) and one that mattered - hostiles getting stuck and not responding after I left a zone and came back. Happened twice in countless encounters, oh my.

Some things are indeed half baked/rushed, like the police system or scripted "scenery" NPCs. Again, kind of thing which is perfectly normal for a big, new IP and will be patched and more developed in a few months. But hey, who cares since we live in hot take times?

And the good things severely outweight the bad ones. The gfx is truly sensational, no matter how many LOOK!!!!GTAV>2077 vids the try-hards will churn out. This is a real glimpse of next generation fx, where lightning is everything. I was a huge RTX sceptic up till this point but must now begrudgingly admit it does make a difference.

The main gameplay loop is also fine, well, at least if we consider it by the Standard Template (definitely not a emergent and truly reactive world I'm waiting for, but then CDPR is not Bethesda). You muck around the city doing side missions and main story ones, and these can be mixed bag - same as in every other AAA open world. I personally much more enjoy the side gigs, they tend to be more open and less scripted. But some story missions (especially the no-sidekick ones) and set pieces are also quite cool. Gunfights get much better once you have built your character/gear a bit, seeing as, you know, it's an RPG (something which many people amusingly forget and think it should work like in COD). AI surely could do with some attention but is definitely not "broken" and occasionally quite brilliant.

I only hope CDPR won't panic and abandon this IP because I'm pretty sure that - again, as per usual - this game can only get better in the sequel. And the added schadenfreude bonus for me is that I'm a long-standing Bethesda fan, and seeing CDPR joining the most hated club is quite ironic. It used to be the Witcher fanbois trying to be smug with their inane "arguments", now the chickens came home to tweet :)

PS: protip for people who don't like long, complex games: don't play them! There's plenty of other choices...


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:10 pm 


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It's great that you are having a good time with the game on PC. I also get the impression that the PC version is far better than the console versions :)

I also agree that this game generally looks amazing (on PC) because of the raytraced lighting. It will be interesting to see how much of that they will be able to implement on PS5/XSX.

dreadnought wrote:
Some things are indeed half baked/rushed, like the police system or scripted "scenery" NPCs. Again, kind of thing which is perfectly normal for a big, new IP and will be patched and more developed in a few months. But hey, who cares since we live in hot take times?


You lost me here. The "they will patch it later" argument really rubs me the wrong way. The game is out now. It's not a beta or early access, they charged money for it and at least on consoles it's an absolutely disastrous release.
I'm playing on PS5, the arguably best console experience at the moment as it runs at a somewhat steady 60fps the majority of the time and the shooting is actually really, really great once you've tweaked the options a lot. 50 hours in and the game has crashed 30 or 31 times now, not excluding the insane amount of other bugs in the game that I run into constantly. You can actually, and I've seen this several times, sequence break the story by playing missions out of order - missions that I might add you get at the exact same time.

I've broken a man's neck only to have a long conversation with him afterwards. Any other game would have made you fail the mission but Cyberpunk gives zero shits and powers on. I've seen countless enemies falling over each others feet killing themselves and others from the impact. This is actually quite funny most of the time but when you have been searching for the last guy to kill in a mission for minutes only to find him bend over a table seemingly dead but not really, the immersion breaks massively.

I've had my character unload his entire shotgun by his own will into a laptop after the game froze up, which caused me to break stealth and made all the enemies angry at me.
I've had the inventory system break to the point where it started displaying raw game code relating to the item id in the description.
I've had fast travelling suddenly not working any more.
Swapping weapons doesn't alway work. Same with waypoints on the map.
Prior to v1.05 the game would regularly reset all my settings to default which was especially annoying as I need to tweak about 20 settings to get a decent working aim. At least this has been fixed.
And many, many, many more bugs.

Just about the only type of glitch I have yet to experience is falling through the game world. But I know that's a feature and I'm just waiting for it to happen.

Having played thousands of games in my life I can honestly say that this is by far the most broken ass game I've ever played. It absolutely deserves all the criticism it's been getting. What's the point in buying a game if it is borderline unplayable? Why should we accept that they will fix it at a later date? Good for everyone who plays it then, but my first impressions will forever be ruined. They can't fix that.

Most of us probably have access to the internet, but believe it or not there are some that still don't have their consoles connected or have very limiting caps on their connection. I actually reached the cap on my internet connection so I had to play v1.00 when I got the game. If v1.06 (current patch) is a mess you wouldn't believe what they are shipping on the discs. Not only was it ugly as hell and ran at a super low resolution at 30fps on PS5. There were so many graphical glitches everywhere, around the borders of the screen, weird light leakage and a sudden strobing effect on the character creation screen that could cause seizures.
I had to stop playing it after a few minutes. Didn't even bother leaving the bar at the start of the game.

I know that many have the opinion that what's on the discs is redundant today and by default unplayable without day one patches, but this is not really true in most cases. Most games will still play fine. Cyberpunk on the other hand takes this to a whole new level. These discs really are absolutely worthless which is why I claimed my refund for the game. This game is such a fucking mess that it doesn't deserve to have a physical release.

With all that said and done I think this game could have been quite good had they delayed it a couple of years. I'm also a fan of Fallout and in all fairness Cyberpunk plays A LOT better. The city is also unbelievably well made and really fun to drive around. I love how varied every district is and their use of color is superb.
The story seems alright so far, a mix of Altered Carbon and Johnny Mnemonic. Never mind that most of the voice acting is bad, I actually think they use Keanu Reeves in a neat way. Usually hollywood actors in videogames are used sparingly and never does anything for me, but this time they sure did put Keanu to work :D This is probably the most unique thing about the game as it otherwise does nothing we haven't seen several times before.

I could go on and on about the things that doesn't work particularly well, but I'd rather end by listing some of the positives about the game:

The shooting can be amazing with a controller but does require a lot of tweaking. Good on them to at least allow us to customise just about every aspect of the aiming.
The level up system is quite solid. Better than Fallout 4 but worse than 3. I feel that it encourages you to vary your gameplay a lot, which I like. At least it does on Very Hard.
Though you are being bombarded with missions constantly and it's hard to keep focused on what you're doing currently, I have found some of them to be quite good.

I'm trying to power through the game now before CDPR wants me to ship it back to Poland. Had everything worked perfectly with no bugs to speak of I would probably rate this a 7/10. I will never understand where the hype came from - Witcher 3 wasn't that great TBH :)

As is I can't in good conscience recommend this game to anyone. If they do a proper re-release on PS5 with updated discs I might consider buying again.

Hopefully Cyberpunk will be remembered as the premium example how not to release a game, for a long time to come. Everyone loved CDPR - the company that could do no wrong - and they fucked it up more than EA, Activision or Ubisoft usually do. I hope this will be a reminder to all publishers to finish their shit before pouring it onto discs and relying on patching it later.
I also hope more people will remember Cyberpunk next time they consider preordering anything. Preordering is stupid, especially if they are buying digitally. It only causes games to be rushed and by doing so they are acknowledging that it's okay to release broken games.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:39 pm 



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Konsolkongen wrote:
It's great that you are having a good time with the game on PC. I also get the impression that the PC version is far better than the console versions :)
Everyone loved CDPR - the company that could do no wrong - and they fucked it up more than EA, Activision or Ubisoft usually do. I hope this will be a reminder to all publishers to finish their shit before pouring it onto discs and relying on patching it later.


This kind of answers your earlier worry about "they patch it out later". Not sure if you've played The Witcher's 1-2-3 just as they have been released - if yes, then you should remember what a mess that was. 1 & 2 actually only started to be somewhat playable with enhanced edition, TW3 had some thing so basic like movement method patched out months after release...and let's not even mention its fps-slaughtering performance.

And yet, there's some sort of amnesia when it comes to that. As you say, "CDPR could do no wrong" - but they did, only then the climate was different and everyone concentrated on the games themselves.

It's the same with absolutely every complex & big modern game released (please note that eg Doom is not that complex). There will be bugs. Especially when it's a new IP. Do recall what first Assasin Creed, Far Cry or even GTA looked like. The latter's combat was kinda comical up till GTA4. Games like Control or Kingdom Come have bugs still, even months or years after the release. It's just how it is. Seems that this AAA dev business really is complicated, it can't be that all these companies are evil and want to release broken games.

I'm sorry to hear about your PS5 experience, but then I've heard from others who had much better time., plus, this isn't really a next gen verison, right (PS4 mode or something).? I can believe that if the game crashed non stop it could drive me mad.

But the other bugs you describe are on par for new IP releases. I just reload and move on. Actually, I very seldom play new games on release, usually wait for GOTY or at least a bunch of patches. This one now with CP was an exception.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:29 pm 


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I didn't play Witcher 3 until a few years after release on PS4. Never played 1 or 2 as I don't have a gamer PC. I've also heard that Witcher 3 was rough at launch, but then CDPR should make an effort to do better this time instead of just half-assing again. Just because they managed to get away with it on their last game doesn't make it right to do it twice. They deservedly lost the trust of their customers for now. Let's see if they remember when their next game releases. I think you're right that most people will forget.

Do you mean new IPs in general or new IPs that are also massive open worlds? I agree that some amount of bugs should be expected in case of the latter but this is still way worse than normal (consoles - cannot speak for the PC version). Sure Cyberpunk is fairly complex compared to a lot of smaller games, but it's my understanding that there isn't a whole lot going on in the background. There is not even an affiliation system with the different gangs and no karma system either, though honestly I don't mind that at all. Cyberpunk really doesn't do anything that hasn't been seen a hundred times before, and at this point, even if it's a new engine and or/IP from a company we should expect these tried and true systems to just work. There is already a lot of games out there they should draw inspiration from and build upon, no need to reinvent the wheel every time.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:30 am 


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Did I just read a defence of CDPR rushing out a half-finished game, for which, as pointed out, the DVD's may as well be coasters at this point?
And it's modern gamers that are at fault? Jesus, I've heard it all now.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:48 am 


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Completed the game today. Patch 1.1 doesn't seem to fix the crashes on PS5. 39 in total :/

I made this video compilation of some of the stupid bugs and glitches I encountered. There's only so much space on the PS5 SSD so I only captured a fraction of it, and a lot had to be filtered out because it didn't make sense out of context. It's only 30fps, in reality the game does run better than this. Though some of it is late game I don't think it spoils anything important related to the story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vftN2cW ... e=youtu.be

I really liked how it played, but it's just too broken to ever be acceptable. The story was decent but has massive plotholes, and quite a few of them. On several occasions the characters contradicts what they and I said and did earlier in the game. Completely breaking what immersion was left :(


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:15 pm 


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Marc wrote:
Jesus, I've heard it all now.


Heard it all? The bigwig at CDPR blaming the QA department was probably one of the slimiest things i've heard in the industry.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:00 pm 


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I tolerated all jankiness and minor bugs of PS4 version so far.. until yesterday that is. With new patch came bug that halts the progress of main story. I tried to load previous save, but same problem. I could go back 5 hours of gametime and try that, but nah. I deleted the game and play it again when I get my PS5 and they (hopefully) make an upgraded version that actually works. Story was okay.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:58 pm 



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Konsolkongen wrote:
I didn't play Witcher 3 until a few years after release on PS4. Never played 1 or 2 as I don't have a gamer PC. I've also heard that Witcher 3 was rough at launch, but then CDPR should make an effort to do better this time instead of just half-assing again.


This could be so if it wasn't a completely new IP (even though often even sequels can be hard to be kept bug-free). The fact that others have included similar elements in their games before does not mean much because they obviously do not share the codebase, and even if they did , putting it together to mould something new would still be tricky. I'm all up for some corpo-busting, but since it happens every single time when a new IP appears, I'll rather begrudgingly admit that developing complex games seems to be hard and usually takes a few attempts to get right. Even then, suspension of disbelief is a handy trait to iron out some persistent bugs which will be always present.

And the real danger of these ridiculous outpourings of hate is that the only effect they will ever have is that companies will simply choose to play it even safer than they are now. After all, what's the point of trying something ambtious when all you are going to get for your trouble is a lot of scorn? It's so much easier to just keep churning out predictable sequels with minimum gameplay and a lot of cutscenes.

I've read a thread on some PC forum recently, about the upcoming new Bioshock game. It's promising a lot of innovations, truly emergent gameplay, reactive/advanced AI, etc - all good things we sorely need in gaming. The reaction from the commenters? "Noooo, forget about all that crap, it will only make it into a broken mess like CP, we want the same ol' Bioshock we've been playing since forever". Well, thanks for effin' nothin, guys.

Of course, again, all that does not mean that CP should get a free pass, there is a lot wrong with this game after all, but what we are witnessing is not a reasonable criticism but a pitchfork mob crucifiction.

Marc wrote:
Did I just read a defence of CDPR rushing out a half-finished game, for which, as pointed out, the DVD's may as well be coasters at this point?
And it's modern gamers that are at fault? Jesus, I've heard it all now.


I know that having to read a "wall of text" and reply with proper arguments is hard, ain't nobody got time for that. So it's not a great surprise you've called it a day after the first sentence ;)

This is of course symptomatic of that whiny and entitled attitude I was talking about, where joining the low hanging fruit circlejerk is much preferred to having some sort of objective conversation. I should've probably quantified that by "modern gamer" I do mean exactly this keyboard-warrior type, because the majority of normal gamers actually seem not to be bothered by all the merry crusading, and exercise their own judgement. The game is still selling rather well (#5 on Steam last week) and its general user review percentage sits at 78% now (by comparison, RDR2 =83%). That's not too bad, given the gigantic size of the hate train it was hit by. https://gaminganalytics.info/


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:26 am 


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dreadnought wrote:
I'm all up for some corpo-busting, but since it happens every single time when a new IP appears, I'll rather begrudgingly admit that developing complex games seems to be hard and usually takes a few attempts to get right. Even then, suspension of disbelief is a handy trait to iron out some persistent bugs which will be always present.


This is simply not true. Not only has no other game that I know of been as broken as Cyberpunk still is, but there are numerous new IPs that just work. Spider-Man (2018) just worked from day one. While it's not an RPG it's still a massive open world that probably puts just as much, if not more, pressure on streaming new assets as Cyberpunk due to the insane speed you are traversing the city. My friend was able to clip an innocent pedestrian inside the wall of building, but that's it for bugs I've experienced in that game.

While not a new IP I would bet that Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild doesn't share much with the previous entries in the series, and I also believe that it's a lot more complex than Cyberpunk with all it's impressive physics and weather-systems. This game also just worked.

Quote:
And the real danger of these ridiculous outpourings of hate is that the only effect they will ever have is that companies will simply choose to play it even safer than they are now. After all, what's the point of trying something ambtious when all you are going to get for your trouble is a lot of scorn? It's so much easier to just keep churning out predictable sequels with minimum gameplay and a lot of cutscenes.


If they can't make their visions come true with a somewhat consistent level of quality then yes I agree. They should stick to what they are comfortable with. There's no point trying to be overly ambitious if they can't follow through and the end result is as bad as Cyberpunk. No one benefits from this.

Quote:
Of course, again, all that does not mean that CP should get a free pass, there is a lot wrong with this game after all, but what we are witnessing is not a reasonable criticism but a pitchfork mob crucifiction.


CDPR should have been a lot more transparent about how the game played and looked on consoles. I understand that a lot of people are disappointed and there is pretty clear evidence that CDPR deliberately lied about the game. Still there is no defending people threatening developers on social media and what have you. No one deserves that kind of behaviour - ever.

If you haven't already I can recommend reading Jason Schriers article about Cyberpunk on Bloomberg:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... us-rollout


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:42 am 


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dreadnought wrote:
Marc wrote:
Did I just read a defence of CDPR rushing out a half-finished game, for which, as pointed out, the DVD's may as well be coasters at this point?
And it's modern gamers that are at fault? Jesus, I've heard it all now.


I know that having to read a "wall of text" and reply with proper arguments is hard, ain't nobody got time for that. So it's not a great surprise you've called it a day after the first sentence ;)

This is of course symptomatic of that whiny and entitled attitude I was talking about, where joining the low hanging fruit circlejerk is much preferred to having some sort of objective conversation. I should've probably quantified that by "modern gamer" I do mean exactly this keyboard-warrior type, because the majority of normal gamers actually seem not to be bothered by all the merry crusading, and exercise their own judgement. The game is still selling rather well (#5 on Steam last week) and its general user review percentage sits at 78% now (by comparison, RDR2 =83%). That's not too bad, given the gigantic size of the hate train it was hit by. https://gaminganalytics.info/


Are you for real? Funny you should mention reading, as I've pointed out multiple times from the start of this thread that it's actually run pretty well for me on X1X, and that I've rather enjoyed it, to a point.

That I've had no (real) issues with it does not negate the FACT that they've released an unfinished game. Not just unpolished, or rough, it's a game that is blatantly unfit for purpose to a lot of users, and they've done so in the sleaziest and most dishonest way possible. They've had to publicly apologise for it (though I suppose that's the fault of 'modern gamers?)! I suppose calling out the fact that the latest patch introduced a game breaking bug, that the dev's had to offer a manual workaround for would be 'jumping on the hate train'!? The only circlejerk here seems to be among those that want to pretend that the game isn't broken. The mental gymnastics involved in even trying to defend this is astonishing.

FWIW, I haven't even bothered to sell my copy. I'll likely try again in a year or so if I upgrade to the XSX (the more I think of it, the less certain I am of going PS this gen), because I think there's a decent game in there. Not particularly amazing, but decent. However with so much else in the queue to play, that is fit for purpose here and now, this goes straight to the back.
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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:56 pm 


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Anybody heard about this yet?

https://twitter.com/chetfaliszek/status ... 96643?s=20


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:25 pm 


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From what I've seen, companies rarely comply with ransom demands like this. This recently happened to Capcom, they didn't comply, and a bunch of stuff got leaked out.

Edit: Now that I think about it, might've been the same guys.


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:14 pm 



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On the Xbox Series S console, it's an initial 63.77gb d/l + another 13.3gb just for the hot patch fix v1.1 alone -- all this downloaded before starting a brand new session, indeed, on a XSS setup.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~


Last edited by PC Engine Fan X! on Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:22 pm 


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I thought that the patch was automatically included when downloading a game :|


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:27 pm 



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On the XSS, the hot patch fix was only very recently made available for the XSX & XSS consoles.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:30 pm 


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Okay that makes sense, but will it be included in the initial download with time? I haven't bought a game digitally so I'm not sure how that works, but seems dumb if you have to download patches separately :)


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 Post subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2077
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:06 am 



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Konsolkongen wrote:
Okay that makes sense, but will it be included in the initial download with time? I haven't bought a game digitally so I'm not sure how that works, but seems dumb if you have to download patches separately :)


You can't play Cyberpunk 2077 on a XSX or XSS console until the hot patch fix 1.1 is d/l'ed, then you finally can play it. I'm sure as time passes on, the main game + patch will be a single d/l.

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