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 Post subject: Double Dragon 2 Arcade(Dotemu)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:53 am 



Joined: 10 Apr 2020
Posts: 17
I have been trying to one cc double dragon games in "original difficulty) . First game was doable, but the best I can do with DD2 is two credits and one life(so 5 lives).

One big issue is that the hitgox feels random.Sometimes an attack can hit an enemy, sometimes it won't, even with the same timing, as if sometimes enemies were temporarily invincible, or there hitbox changed.

This makes fights frustrating, and damage is also unpredictable. An attack can take you one bar of life, two, or just a small part of one, in which case it will not be displayed on screen.

Have you played this version and found your way around? I may stop at 2 credits and call it a day.


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 Post subject: Re: Double Dragon 2 Arcade(Dotemu)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:13 am 


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Any particular reason you're playing the DotEmu release? Even you said it was bad. It isn't terribly difficult to get this game running in MAME.
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 Post subject: Re: Double Dragon 2 Arcade(Dotemu)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:14 am 


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I've no-missed the Arcade Archives version on full defaults. This means Normal difficulty, Normal timer, and no Hurricane Kick assist. The operator's manual suggests Hard difficulty (no biggie, couple extra hits per zako), Hard timer (still plenty), and Easy Hurricane Kick (the fuck is this weak shit? l2p noobs!). So I didn't bother. I suspect they wanted 80s kids to say "WAAOW" and "SHA-WEEEET" at the Hurricane Kick (I do!), while getting punished to hell and back for shoddy fundamentals. Image You see, the sidekick is very important, and so are the grapples it sets up!

Anyway, assuming DotEmu didn't screw anything up (a losing bet, it seems...), you should know that Double Dragon II is a very simple but ALSO very unforgiving beltscroller. Learn how to shut down large enemies, or they'll beat your ass for +50HP a shot. The replay above will sort you out for these detailed strategies. Note the off-axis timing when taking on big fuckers, they generally outrange you and will slap the shit out of you if attacked head-on. Launch kicks/elbows from slightly off-axis, so they "walk into" them. A staple technique of Technos beaters.

The last stage is bullshit unless partitioned as shown. The last boss demands either perfect Tatsumaki timing, or Easy Hurricane Kick setting (don't be a noob!). I wrote a bit more here, will check back in as I'm in serial killer matchstick eyelids mode ATM. ;3

The stuff you mention with random hitboxes, i-frames etc sounds completely alien to my experience with DD2. Everything shown in that replay works consistently for me. One thing to note - the punch chain is garbage. Just like in DD1, enemies recover too quickly for it to combo reliably without careful off-axis deployment. Use the kick to stun, instead, then go for the knockdown/grapple.
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 Post subject: Re: Double Dragon 2 Arcade(Dotemu)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:00 pm 


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fireflame wrote:
I have been trying to one cc double dragon games in "original difficulty) . First game was doable, but the best I can do with DD2 is two credits and one life(so 5 lives).


DD2 is systematically tougher than DD1. You can't carry weapons between stages, the elbow is now merely useful as opposed to game-breaking, and you don't get massive slowdown with three enemies onscreen (more like five, or three big dudes, or a biggie plus two regulars... not common occurences). Also the last boss is dangerous.

So, don't worry if it seems tougher. It is!

Quote:
One big issue is that the hitgox feels random.Sometimes an attack can hit an enemy, sometimes it won't, even with the same timing, as if sometimes enemies were temporarily invincible, or there hitbox changed.


This definitely shouldn't be happening. What I have noticed, and this is in ACA ver, is that your combo enders (uppercut/crescent kick) can be extremely picky WRT timing/spacing. If it's absolutely critical I get a knockdown on a stunned enemy, I'll just jumpkick the bastard is possible.

Quote:
This makes fights frustrating, and damage is also unpredictable. An attack can take you one bar of life, two, or just a small part of one, in which case it will not be displayed on screen.


There's a "surplus" region of HP, which you'll want to hang onto for as long as possible. You get a bit back after Missions 1, 2 and 3, and it's possible to return to surplus. Obviously though, it's better to just not take that damage to begin with.

The lifebar display is imprecise, but damage dealt by enemies is consistent. Expect to lose +50%HP if an Abore's shoulder ram hits you square, or you get caught by Chin's sweepkick/tonfa combos, or you eat the Doppelganger's bullshit Shungokusatsu. Zako hits take a long time to chip down blocks of health, but with the traditional Technos lack of HP restores, attrition is a constant threat, so don't slack off on the little guys.[/quote]

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Have you played this version and found your way around? I may stop at 2 credits and call it a day.


Going by everything I've read, I'd rather bite my own dick off than play DotEmu's arcade releases. I do have their Ys Origin (PS4), which is just about acceptable AFAIK. Crashes if you rev the pause menu too rapidly, and has blood turned off, and apparently has some obscure boss AI bugs, but it's doing ok so far.
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 Post subject: Re: Double Dragon 2 Arcade(Dotemu)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:13 pm 



Joined: 10 Apr 2020
Posts: 17
WelshMegalodon wrote:
Any particular reason you're playing the DotEmu release? Even you said it was bad. It isn't terribly difficult to get this game running in MAME.

I just wanted to play it the "legal way' but you are right there are much better versions.I could always get the room and run it on name now that I bought it.


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 Post subject: Re: Double Dragon 2 Arcade(Dotemu)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:29 pm 


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Now, imma talk about moves. (■`ω´■)

Player Character BIRRY
Player Interface: [attack left] [jump] [attack right]

Just like Kunio, and FC DD2, Birry kicks towards his back, and punches towards his front. You have to muscle-memorise turning away from enemies to kick, as its stun property is vital from start to finish. Don't worry about timing, you can kick from the very same frame while hitting [away].

You might think I'm facing them, but I'm actually turning prior to attack! ITS THAT FUCKIN QUICK
Spoiler: show
Image


[STUN] Strike enemies to stun them. Are they doubled over in agony and not moving? That's a stun! Stunned enemies are ripe for either a combo ender, a Tatsumaki, or (provided they're male zako) a grapple. Stun is king!

[OFF-AXIS ATTACK] A vital principle, without which, you'll be beaten so severely you will no longer be able to bust. Bustin' will make you feel BAD! :shock: Enemies tend to outrange you, and will stuff your attacks if they're launched head-on. INSTEAD, position yourself slightly above/below their axis/"lane." All enemies will home in on your position - launch your attack as they do so, and they'll walk straight into its active frames. BOOM! They get hit and you don't. That's the principle of martial arts.

[BIRRY AND JIMMY WALKER] Use this homing behaviour to maneuver enemies onto DYNOMITE right as it asplode. This works in lots of Technos beaters!

BIRRYS MOVES

Punch (Punch, Punch -> Stun) A basic left/right punching combo ending in a stun. Don't rely on it. Enemies recover very quickly, and can easily interrupt you. Use instead...

Kick Invaluable, and not to be confused with DD1's stubby, near-useless boot. Lashes out lightning-quick and leaves male zako stunned. That bitch LINDA doesn't get stunned, more on her below. (the fuck did you do to yourself, Linda-chan? you look like Hawk & Animal's bull-dyke niece! :o)

Grapple Applies only to male zako, but you'll be fighting a lot of those, so it's good intel. Walk into a stunned enemy to grab them. Attack [toward] to knee them, up to 3x. Attack [away] to throw, great for dumping enemies into pits. It's possible to land a couple knees, then pivot the joystick to release and re-grab the enemy - this can land you some nice damage, just beware of backstabbers.

Jumping Kick (attack during advancing jump) Decently reliable knockdown, if properly launched from off-axis. It can get stuffed badly if launched head-on. Does little damage, more for getting into larger enemies' personal space.

Flying Roundhouse (punch+jump) Looks cool, but is probably the game's least useful move. Slow startup and easily stuffed. Use the regular jumpkick, instead.

Elbow Strike (kick+jump) DD1's infamous game-breaker, reformed into a respectable poke/knockdown. While it still confuses the AI, who'll walk into it from off-axis all day, it now does pitiful damage. Useful for flooring Burnovs (Iron Masks) and Abores (Arnolds), particularly at the end of Mission 3.

Knee Strike (punch next to rising enemy) A brutal instant stun, whose execution is just strict and dangerous enough that I don't bother with it. You can handily dominate several enemies and even bosses, if you master the timing - a potential alternative for Doppelganger, if you can't get the Tatsumaki timing down.

Image

Tatsumaki (attack at peak of jump) Whoa! Radical! SHAWEET. It's the famous spinneh-mah-winneh kick the NES advert sold you on! Does excellent damage (strongest single strike), but is brutally punishable. If there's anyone at your back while you're using it, you're gonna get it up the ass upon landing. Use with discretion. The timing is idiosyncratic, but it's no DD2 Hyper Knee, I tell you what.

Spoiler: show
Image


Pictured above: the point where you need to press the attack button. Also, this is Hard difficulty, so Beardy McBeardfuck takes TWO tatsus. That doesn't happen on Normal! However, by Hard mode standards, you also have EZ Tatsu and therefore SMOL PENOR Image EASY TATSU setting is non-default, and also for pussies. Image

Has a second, more dubious use as a jump extender, which is key to defeating the last boss's lethal Shungokusatsu.

---

Next, imma talk about BIRRYS ENEMIES - but first, I have to take me fookin whippet for he FOOKIN WALK. (■`W´■)
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 Post subject: Re: Double Dragon 2 Arcade(Dotemu)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:41 pm 


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BIRRYS ENEMIES

ZAKO These fuckers are dangerous in aggregate, don't sleep on 'em. No eating outta the trash here motherfucker!

WILLIAMS (white vest) Has a deceptively quick body blow you need to avoid being in front of. Can use knives on both ground and air, again, don't hang around on his lane. Stun with off-axis kick, followup with grapple reset (see movelist) or Tatsumaki. Found in all Missions, up to the midpoint of 4.

ROPER (hockey hair, beard) Pretty much Williams, and can be dealt with similarly, but eschews knives and clubs in favour of heavy objects. Can be distracted by chucking away his toys. Appears in Missions 1 through 3.

LINDA (bulldyke) Oof, this bitch. She has no stun state, nor can she be grappled, making Williams/Roper strats ineffective. I like to whack her with a Tatsumaki, which will do enough damage for Elbow/kicks to mop up. Can use knives just like Williams. Likes chains, whose startup provides a good opening for Tatsumakis. Also likes grenades, which you can use to your advantage with the AI-baiting tactic described above. Thankfully she fucks off midway through Mission 3.

MIDBOSSES Getting heavier! These guys are deadly to face on-axis, though not quite the death sentence of the next tier up.

O'HARA/BOLO (big guys with flat-tops/long hair) Functionally identical stand-ins for DD1's Abobos. Can be stunned, but not grappled. Nail 'em with off-axis kicks and followup Tatsumakis. Found in all Missions, most notably near a nice cliff edge late in M3, in one of DD2's few mandatory multi-heavy fights.

JEFF (Lee bro headswap) While he can be stunned and grappled, his high HP will cause him to break free of both until you've done significant damage. Also a fan of grenades, and just as vulnerable to them as Linda.

First encountered next to a combine harvester, which you both need to dodge the blades of (watch for its warning lights + smoke!). Chances are, it'll kill him before you do - I like to hit/run with elbows and sidekicks, only going for a Tatsumaki if I know he's too damaged to escape stun. And the harvester isn't revving up, obviously.

BOSSTYPES Fought head-on, these guys will slap the shit out of you. Off-axis technique is key. This is also where DD2's surprisingly generous walk speed comes into play; use it to aggressively invaged their off-axis space.

BURNOV (iron mask) Mission 1 boss, recurs as a tag-team in Missions 3 and 4. Has a vicious grapple flurry you'll almost certainly get snatched by, if you let him get in-range and on-axis.

His M1 incarnation is deadlier than the rest, recovering from stuns fast enough to make connecting with Tatsumaki a challenge. Fortunately you can just bump him off the roof, see replay. The M3 tag team has to be fought simultaneously, elbow poke n' run is advised until one dies. M4, like most of the stage's heavies, can and should be taken on seperately.

ABORE (T-800) Mission 2 boss, the game's first truly lethal enemy. His shoulder ram will crush anything you throw at it, even perfectly-placed off-axis kicks, causing you grievous damage.

The trick is to exploit Billy's speed and get in close for an off-axis elbow, flooring him. From there, stay in-close and nail him as he rises with off-axis kicks, followed up by Tatsumakis. A bit pedestrian, but this guy is fucking dangerous, and if you drop an input you'll be in deep shit guaranteed. Image

M2 Bosstype can be quick-killed by elbowing him onto the conveyor, and shunting him along from there. Try to speedkill the zako who'll be loitering as he arrives, especially the Lindas. See replay for what happens when you screw this up, and how to recover.

CHIN (kung-fu tunic, tonfas) Mission 3 boss. Very dangerous, but simple to deal with. His sweepkick is faster than your sidekick, and it leads into a vicious combo that'll tear through your HP. He's too strong and quick to stun outright - instead, hit him with an off-axis kick, which'll let you get close, then Tatsumaki him as he goes for the sweep - it'll nail him square. See the replay's M3 boss fight for a clear demonstration of this technique.

Two are fought near the start of Mission 4, next to a handy pit. Two more attend Willy's arena, but can be fought individually. Don't try fighting either alongside Willy, let alone both - he'll hang back and blast you like the varmint he is.

WILLY (machinegun) Mission 4 boss, an outlier. Can be stunned and grappled just like Williams/Roper, and can also be trapped against walls for punch flurries, unheard of with other enemies. Lure him downscreen, between you and the wall, and keep him there, battering him with punches and knee strikes. If he escapes to open ground, you're almost certainly getting shot for 90% damage.

DOPPELGANGER Demons who assume the form of those they intend to kill. True last boss (bosses, in 2P). Uses BIRRY TECHS in impossible ways (knee strikes outside of rising target, combo enders outside of stunned target). Has a hadouken, which unlike Willy's bullets is easy to dodge. Also has a fucking Raging Demon, which will nuke ~50% HP a shot. Avoiding this with neutral Tatsumakis is half the battle.

The other half is nailing him with deftly-timed kicks+tatsus, or alternatively, knee strikes and combo enders, as unlike every previous enemy, he escapes stuns faster as his HP depletes. Kinda bullshit, kinda cool, wish he was as fair as Famicom DDIII's similarly teleport/projectile-happy last boss.

Next, imma talk about BIRRY'S STAGES, but first, imma shitpost a bit. (・`ω´・)
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Last edited by BIL on Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Double Dragon 2 Arcade(Dotemu)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:37 pm 



Joined: 10 Apr 2020
Posts: 17
BIL wrote:
BIRRYS ENEMIES

ZAKO These fuckers are dangerous in aggregate, don't sleep on 'em. No eating outta the trash here motherfucker!

WILLIAMS (white vest) Has a deceptively quick body blow you need to avoid being in front of. Can use knives on both ground and air, again, don't hang around on his lane. Stun with off-axis kick, followup with grapple reset (see movelist) or Tatsumaki. Found in all Missions, up to the midpoint of 4.

ROPER (hockey hair, beard) Pretty much Williams, and can be dealt with similarly, but eschews knives and clubs in favour of heavy objects. Can be distracted by chucking away his toys. Appears in Missions 1 through 3.

LINDA (bulldyke) Oof, this bitch. She has no stun state, nor can she be grappled, making Williams/Roper strats ineffective. I like to whack her with a Tatsumaki, which will do enough damage for Elbow/kicks to mop up. Can use knives just like Williams. Likes chains, whose startup provides a good opening for Tatsumakis. Also likes grenades, which you can use to your advantage with the AI-baiting tactic described above. Thankfully she fucks off midway through Mission 3.

MIDBOSSES Getting heavier! These guys are deadly to face on-axis, though not quite the death sentence of the next tier up.

O'HARA/BOLO (big guys with flat-tops/long hair) Functionally identical stand-ins for DD1's Abobos. Can be stunned, but not grappled. Nail 'em with off-axis kicks and followup Tatsumakis. Found in all Missions, most notably near a nice cliff edge late in M3, in one of DD2's few mandatory multi-heavy fights.

JEFF (Lee bro headswap) While he can be stunned and grappled, his high HP will cause him to break free of both until you've done significant damage. Also a fan of grenades, and just as vulnerable to them as Linda.

First encountered next to a combine harvester, which you both need to dodge the blades of (watch for its warning lights + smoke!). Chances are, it'll kill him before you do - I like to hit/run with elbows and sidekicks, only going for a Tatsumaki if I know he's too damaged to escape stun. And the harvester isn't revving up, obviously.

BOSSTYPES Fought head-on, these guys will slap the shit out of you. Off-axis technique is key. This is also where DD2's surprisingly generous walk speed comes into play; use it to aggressively invaged their off-axis space.

BURNOV (iron mask) Mission 1 boss, recurs as a tag-team in Missions 3 and 4. Has a vicious grapple flurry you'll almost certainly get snatched by, if you let him get in-range and on-axis.

His M1 incarnation is deadlier than the rest, recovering from stuns fast enough to make connecting with Tatsumaki a challenge. Fortunately you can just bump him off the roof, see replay. The M3 tag team has to be fought simultaneously, elbow poke n' run is advised until one dies. M4, like most of the stage's heavies, can and should be taken on seperately.

ABORE (T-800) Mission 2 boss, the game's first truly lethal enemy. His shoulder ram will crush anything you throw at it, even perfectly-placed off-axis kicks, causing you grievous damage.

The trick is to exploit Billy's speed and get in close for an off-axis elbow, flooring him. From there, stay in-close and nail him as he rises with off-axis kicks, followed up by Tatsumakis. A bit pedestrian, but this guy is fucking dangerous, and if you drop an input you'll be in deep shit guaranteed. Image

M2 Bosstype can be quick-killed by elbowing him onto the conveyor, and shunting him along from there. Try to speedkill the zako who'll be loitering as he arrives, especially the Lindas. See replay for what happens when you screw this up, and how to recover.

CHIN (kung-fu tunic, tonfas) Mission 3 boss. Dangerous, but simple to deal with. His sweepkick leads into a vicious combo that'll tear through your HP. Shut him down with aggressive off-axis kicks+Tatsus. Two are fought near the start of Mission 4, next to a handy pit.

WILLY (machinegun) Mission 4 boss, an outlier. Can be stunned and grappled just like Williams/Roper, and can also be trapped against walls for punch flurries, unheard of with other enemies. Lure him downscreen, between you and the wall, and keep him there, battering him with punches and knee strikes. If he escapes to open ground, you're almost certainly getting shot for 90% damage.

DOPPELGANGER Demons who assume the form of those they intend to kill. True last boss (bosses, in 2P). Uses BIRRY TECHS in impossible ways (knee strikes outside of rising target, combo enders outside of stunned target). Has a hadouken, which unlike Willy's bullets is easy to dodge. Also has a fucking Raging Demon, which will nuke ~50% HP a shot. Avoiding this with neutral Tatsumakis is half the battle.

The other half is nailing him with deftly-timed kicks+tatsus, or alternatively, knee strikes and combo enders, as unlike every previous enemy, he escapes stuns faster as his HP depletes. Kinda bullshit, kinda cool, wish he was as fair as Famicom DDIII's similarly teleport/projectile-happy last boss.

Next, imma talk about BIRRY'S STAGES, but first, imma shitpost a bit. (・`ω´・)


Thanks I applied some advice. Ended up beating final boss by a thin hair.The punches work very well on this boss, for once


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 Post subject: Re: Double Dragon 2 Arcade(Dotemu)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:23 pm 


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Glad I could help ;3 I'll write some stage commentary later. TBH, the biggest danger is probably Technos's unfortunately endemic camera-riding. At a few spots you really need to know when an enemy's gonna spawn in with a weapon. Sucks, but ce la vie. Game's got plenty of good points to make up for it.
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 Post subject: Re: Double Dragon 2 Arcade(Dotemu)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:46 am 


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I'm gonna have to dig this back out later. I was fine up until the combine, that bit annoyed the shot out of me and I shelved it there.
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 Post subject: Re: Double Dragon 2 Arcade(Dotemu)
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:33 pm 


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The iffy game speed doesn't help there. Main thing is to learn the general timing of the lights, and try to ensure you're free to jump when it fires.

As the fight wears on, Jeff will be recovering progressively slower, so there's a good chance it'll finish him off. ;3

DOUBLE DRAGON II: THE FREAK COMBINE HARVESTER MISHAP

Biggie right after is fucking Williams camera-riding in with a shovel, now that needs a hard memo dodge. 3;
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 Post subject: Re: Double Dragon 2 Arcade(Dotemu)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:20 am 


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I'll never forget the first time I saw this cab in the wild.

Game starts. Straight up murders the girl. Holy fuck!

Feeling pretty good. But end my fun as I get run over by a frickin' tractor combine. Holy fuck!
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 Post subject: Re: Double Dragon 2 Arcade(Dotemu)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:35 am 


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DD2AC is unironically one of the best VG "revenge dead lover" stories. FC ver? Pfft! No DBZ Bullshit™ here friendo. We're on Hokuto no Ken rules, ie SHE'S DEAD, JIMMY.

And now, so is Willy! Too bad you didn't kill him the first time around! Oh fuck me, it's an incarnation of nihilistic wrath that's stolen your face and can make your heart explode. At least you can beat the shit out of it, that'll teach it to laugh - oh. It laughs at that too, then fucks off. End result: A FEAST FOR CROWS WHERE DOGS AND VULTURES EAT

"Alone... all alone..." - Splatterhouse Part III

Moral: sparing the wicked might make you feel warm and fuzzy, but some villains need killing. Don't be a Billy. Be a Cody, and kick that screaming cripple out the window of his penthouse suite.

I love how DD Advance, in its consistently superlative fashion, neatly folds DD2FC's storyline into the arcade game's. Here the MYSTERIOUS WARRIOR is just the heir of a rival school (who make up his stage's zako), looking for a good fight to the death. He even expresses his regrets at taking advantage of Marion's kidnapping to get it! Also he still has his badass FC BGM.

Also, after sparing Willy in one of the great sentences of VG literature (Willy lay still from exhaustion), the Lee bros and Marion immediately get the fuck out of town and are never seen again. Smart move! Image
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