So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
Wonder why they suddenly decided to start making sequels to some of their games if they hated sequels back then?
Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
Maybe they liked money more than their principles.
Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
Wonder if one also considers Alien Syndrome to be a shmup?
Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
epitaph on america's graveSumez wrote:Maybe they liked money more than their principles.
~Imagination and memory are but one thing, which for diverse considerations have diverse names~
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~*~*~*~*~*~* If there's a place that I could be ~ Then I'd be another memory *~*~*~*~*~*~
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~*~*~*~*~*~* If there's a place that I could be ~ Then I'd be another memory *~*~*~*~*~*~
Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
As noted, games of that ilk - topdown push-scrolling run/guns with eight-way movement, let's call them here for convenience's sake - are officially regarded as on-topic.xxx1993 wrote:Wonder if one also considers Alien Syndrome to be a shmup?
I very vaguely recall them being off-topic, early in the forum's current incarnation (January 2005 to present). Conversely, stuff like Guwange, Gun.Smoke and Elemental Master - traditional autoscrolling topdown verts ala Xevious, with the stylistic distinction of human, on-foot avatars - were always accepted without question in Shmups Chat. (these games also incorporate terrain, but then so do Image Fight, Dragon Spirit, Gemini Wing and likely many more traditional "flying vehicle" STGs)
Personally, Front Line et al are distinct enough a game type that I'm happiest discussing them in OT. I've no issues whatsoever with them being Considered A Shumps though. (not that it would matter if I did, of course. I don't consider Contra, Star Fox or Ace Combat on-topic, but what am I gonna do if management decides they are, indeed, A Shumps? Back over my Mega CD copy of Star Blade? )
光あふれる 未来もとめて, whoa~oh ♫
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE JUSTICE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [STAB & STOMP]
Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
Run and gun games aren't considers shmups because they are platformers that give the players the ability to jump and move side to side. Games like Metal Slug 3,
Kirby's Return to Dream Land, and Shantae: Risky's Revenge do feature their shmup level, but they're not frequent enough for the games to be considered shmups.
Kirby's Return to Dream Land, and Shantae: Risky's Revenge do feature their shmup level, but they're not frequent enough for the games to be considered shmups.
"You don't have to believe in yourself, because I believe in you." - Drax the Destroyer
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Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
I stand by my original statement - If the player scrolls the screen it's a run n' gun. Auto scroll = shmup.
I have softened my stance on In the Hunt though:)
I have softened my stance on In the Hunt though:)
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
I like to think of run/guns as scrolling action/platformers ala Makaimura (1985), incorporating STG levels of firepower and bodycount. Contra (1987) is the earliest example I've found. Basically, if you're backing around a hog mighty enough to do this:Dawn111 wrote:Run and gun games aren't considers shmups because they are platformers that give the players the ability to jump and move side to side.
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Or this:
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You are probably run/gunning in my book!
There's also stuff like Saigo no Nindou (1988), which lifts Gradius's Options, and features Spread/Bomb shot-types that'd do any STG proud, overlaid onto The Legend of Kage: In Hell
Handy!
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Ass-saving!
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DEFENDED THE TREE
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ITS LIKE IM BACK IN NAM Is this running and gunning?
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NO ITS NOT (■`W´■) Just like Makaimura, you can't run and shoot at the same time. ;3
But despite never autoscrolling, nor featuring Shump Stages, I'd consider it closer to Contra than Super Mario Land. Or Makaimura! Arthur shoots 2 kill, but his hog is puny 3; TBH even Saigo's sword/chain action feels conspicuously STG-esque, prefiguring the bullet-cancelling swords favoured by Milestone.
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However, it's all moot, as I regard all of the above as equally off-topic for Shumps Chat.
I'd look the other way on In The Hunt WRT R2RKMF tbh ;3 Not Over Horizon or Phalanx, though, you only scroll the screen in one stage apiece! :O OR Defender/Fantasy Zone, because nobody says they are Not Shumps.Stevens wrote:I stand by my original statement - If the player scrolls the screen it's a run n' gun. Auto scroll = shmup.
I have softened my stance on In the Hunt though:)
Last edited by BIL on Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:51 pm, edited 4 times in total.
光あふれる 未来もとめて, whoa~oh ♫
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE JUSTICE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [STAB & STOMP]
Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
How the fuck did I forget Defender and FZ?BIL wrote:
I'd look the other way on In The Hunt WRT R2RKMF tbh ;3 Not Over Horizon or Phalanx, though, you only scroll the screen in one stage apiece! :O OR Defender/Fantasy Zone, because nobody says they are Not Shumps.
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
See also Bosconian Ain't nobody gon challenge those Shumping Credentials A horde of nerds will dogpile 'em before the post hits the server
光あふれる 未来もとめて, whoa~oh ♫
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE JUSTICE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [STAB & STOMP]
Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
Ooooo, Ninja Spirit looked so sick! It's like Contra, but in ancient Japan, and it's so fun to play!BIL wrote: DEFENDED THE TREE
Spoiler
The shurikens are like the spread gun, & they are especially powerful when having ninja clones.
"You don't have to believe in yourself, because I believe in you." - Drax the Destroyer
https://youtube.com/DawnHibiki
https://youtube.com/DawnHibiki
Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
Great game Besides feeling distinctly Kage+Contra, it also seems to prefigure ex-Irem Nazca's Metal Slug in some regards... like the free enemy contact allowing for wild crowd rucks (it's all good until someone connects with a weapon!), and the massive hitboxes on power weapons giving that "press the button, five guys die" largesse.
光あふれる 未来もとめて, whoa~oh ♫
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE JUSTICE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [STAB & STOMP]
Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
I don't think I'm figuring out a great mystery of the universe, but after years here I'm pretty sure Saigo is Birru's desert island game.
If not that then Ninja Warriors.
If not that then Ninja Warriors.
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
Saigo and TNWA (SFC) are on the list of ten, definitely. (no way in hell could I choose just one ) Both have killer mechanics, nonstop pace and a healthy degree of raging (yet controllable) chaos. Hundreds of hours on both and I'll still get reliably knocked on my ass if not 110% switched on. TNWA is also effectively two games in one. Master Kunoichi and you'll still have precious little idea of how to use Ninja, and vice-versa.
TNWAA (PS4) might be an even stronger game, certainly for time attack, but I slightly prefer the original's 4:3 pressure. This st7-2 monorail fight is one of my favourite things I've ever captured on video. I know if any of those fuckers get loose, it's gonna turn into Cat Herder 9000, so I shut 'em down with nonstop pressure. (`ω´メ) If you're quick and accurate enough, there's little you can't do with regards to crowd manipulation - it's a remarkably visceral, tactile brawler, fuelled by Natsume's absolutely Godlike i-frame sense (a sense that has, commendably, grown even more transcendent with TNWAA, Wild Guns Reloaded, and undoubtedly, their upcoming Kiki Kaikai). Anyone who enjoys whooping ass against the odds should play TNWA and TNWAA post-haste.
Also bangin Hiroyuki Iwatsuki tunes
TNWAA (PS4) might be an even stronger game, certainly for time attack, but I slightly prefer the original's 4:3 pressure. This st7-2 monorail fight is one of my favourite things I've ever captured on video. I know if any of those fuckers get loose, it's gonna turn into Cat Herder 9000, so I shut 'em down with nonstop pressure. (`ω´メ) If you're quick and accurate enough, there's little you can't do with regards to crowd manipulation - it's a remarkably visceral, tactile brawler, fuelled by Natsume's absolutely Godlike i-frame sense (a sense that has, commendably, grown even more transcendent with TNWAA, Wild Guns Reloaded, and undoubtedly, their upcoming Kiki Kaikai). Anyone who enjoys whooping ass against the odds should play TNWA and TNWAA post-haste.
Also bangin Hiroyuki Iwatsuki tunes
Spoiler
光あふれる 未来もとめて, whoa~oh ♫
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE JUSTICE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [STAB & STOMP]
Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
Bought In The Hunt and played it for the first time in a very long time.
Definitely a shmup. Sorry for my previous retarded opinion.
Definitely a shmup. Sorry for my previous retarded opinion.
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
I consider it an STG too, but it is very different from the norm. When I played the ACA one, it'd been like a decade, and I was getting absolutely massacred by the very first stage. Turned out I was subconsciously holding [forward] to keep the screen scrolling unimpeded, straight into near-simultaneous minefields, cryolasers and depth-charges... the designers clearly leveraged the player-dictated scroll to put a lot more in your path than the typical st1.
Of course, just like Contra/Slug, when you git gud you often can attack stages at full ramming speed - bystanders might not even realise ITH pros are push-scrolling, initially, since like all good scrolling aciton it keeps you firmly anchored to screen center.
Them Nazcafied POW Armours in stage 2... Jeeze I want ACA Undercover Cops.
And Geostorm obv. *crack*
Of course, just like Contra/Slug, when you git gud you often can attack stages at full ramming speed - bystanders might not even realise ITH pros are push-scrolling, initially, since like all good scrolling aciton it keeps you firmly anchored to screen center.
Them Nazcafied POW Armours in stage 2... Jeeze I want ACA Undercover Cops.
And Geostorm obv. *crack*
光あふれる 未来もとめて, whoa~oh ♫
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE JUSTICE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [STAB & STOMP]
Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
Ah yes, GunForce 2... Which everyone often considered a prototype Metal Slug, and they're not wrong.