shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:38 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:33 am 



Joined: 05 May 2014
Posts: 1763
Wonder why they suddenly decided to start making sequels to some of their games if they hated sequels back then?
_________________
https://ginga-force.fandom.com/wiki/Ginga_Force_Wiki


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:50 am 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 5873
Location: Denmarku
Maybe they liked money more than their principles.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:43 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 4136
Location: Villa Straylight
why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?

Answer: They aren't.
:wink:
_________________
ImageImage
1cc List - Youtube - You emptylock my heart


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:57 pm 



Joined: 05 May 2014
Posts: 1763
Wonder if one also considers Alien Syndrome to be a shmup?
_________________
https://ginga-force.fandom.com/wiki/Ginga_Force_Wiki


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:59 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2017
Posts: 981
Location: プププランド
Sumez wrote:
Maybe they liked money more than their principles.


epitaph on america's grave
_________________
~Imagination and memory are but one thing, which for diverse considerations have diverse names~
Image | Image
~*~*~*~*~*~* If there's a place that I could be ~ Then I'd be another memory *~*~*~*~*~*~


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:24 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 13450
Location: SODOM
xxx1993 wrote:
Wonder if one also considers Alien Syndrome to be a shmup?


As noted, games of that ilk - topdown push-scrolling run/guns with eight-way movement, let's call them here for convenience's sake - are officially regarded as on-topic.

I very vaguely recall them being off-topic, early in the forum's current incarnation (January 2005 to present). Conversely, stuff like Guwange, Gun.Smoke and Elemental Master - traditional autoscrolling topdown verts ala Xevious, with the stylistic distinction of human, on-foot avatars - were always accepted without question in Shmups Chat. (these games also incorporate terrain, but then so do Image Fight, Dragon Spirit, Gemini Wing and likely many more traditional "flying vehicle" STGs)

Personally, Front Line et al are distinct enough a game type that I'm happiest discussing them in OT. I've no issues whatsoever with them being Considered A Shumps though. (not that it would matter if I did, of course. I don't consider Contra, Star Fox or Ace Combat on-topic, but what am I gonna do if management decides they are, indeed, A Shumps? Back over my Mega CD copy of Star Blade? :lol:)
_________________
Image
To be honest, that shit felt good.
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [TRAGEDY FLAME]


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:48 am 


User avatar

Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Posts: 64
Run and gun games aren't considers shmups because they are platformers that give the players the ability to jump and move side to side. Games like Metal Slug 3,
Kirby's Return to Dream Land, and Shantae: Risky's Revenge do feature their shmup level, but they're not frequent enough for the games to be considered shmups.
_________________
"You don't have to believe in yourself, because I believe in you." - Drax the Destroyer
https://youtube.com/DawnHibiki


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:06 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 2986
Location: Brooklyn NY
I stand by my original statement - If the player scrolls the screen it's a run n' gun. Auto scroll = shmup.

I have softened my stance on In the Hunt though:)
_________________
I'm glad you made it.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:09 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 13450
Location: SODOM
Dawn111 wrote:
Run and gun games aren't considers shmups because they are platformers that give the players the ability to jump and move side to side.


I like to think of run/guns as scrolling action/platformers ala Makaimura (1985), incorporating STG levels of firepower and bodycount. Contra (1987) is the earliest example I've found. Basically, if you're backing around a hog mighty enough to do this:

Spoiler: show
Image

Or this:
Spoiler: show
Image


You are probably run/gunning in my book!

There's also stuff like Saigo no Nindou (1988), which lifts Gradius's Options, and features Spread/Bomb shot-types that'd do any STG proud, overlaid onto The Legend of Kage: In Hell

Handy! :o
Spoiler: show
Image

Ass-saving! :shock:
Spoiler: show
Image

DEFENDED THE TREE Image
Spoiler: show
Image

ITS LIKE IM BACK IN NAM Image Is this running and gunning?
Spoiler: show
Image

NO ITS NOT (■`W´■) Just like Makaimura, you can't run and shoot at the same time. ;3

But despite never autoscrolling, nor featuring Shump Stages, I'd consider it closer to Contra than Super Mario Land. Or Makaimura! Arthur shoots 2 kill, but his hog is puny 3; TBH even Saigo's sword/chain action feels conspicuously STG-esque, prefiguring the bullet-cancelling swords favoured by Milestone.
Spoiler: show
Image


However, it's all moot, as I regard all of the above as equally off-topic for Shumps Chat. Image

Stevens wrote:
I stand by my original statement - If the player scrolls the screen it's a run n' gun. Auto scroll = shmup.

I have softened my stance on In the Hunt though:)


I'd look the other way on In The Hunt WRT R2RKMF tbh ;3 Not Over Horizon or Phalanx, though, you only scroll the screen in one stage apiece! :O OR Defender/Fantasy Zone, because nobody says they are Not Shumps. Image
_________________
Image
To be honest, that shit felt good.
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [TRAGEDY FLAME]


Last edited by BIL on Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:51 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:13 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 2986
Location: Brooklyn NY
BIL wrote:

I'd look the other way on In The Hunt WRT R2RKMF tbh ;3 Not Over Horizon or Phalanx, though, you only scroll the screen in one stage apiece! :O OR Defender/Fantasy Zone, because nobody says they are Not Shumps. Image


How the fuck did I forget Defender and FZ?
_________________
I'm glad you made it.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:16 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 13450
Location: SODOM
See also Bosconian :mrgreen: Ain't nobody gon challenge those Shumping Credentials Image A horde of nerds will dogpile 'em before the post hits the server :shock:
_________________
Image
To be honest, that shit felt good.
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [TRAGEDY FLAME]


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:35 am 


User avatar

Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Posts: 64
BIL wrote:
DEFENDED THE TREE Image
Spoiler: show
Image


Ooooo, Ninja Spirit looked so sick! It's like Contra, but in ancient Japan, and it's so fun to play!
The shurikens are like the spread gun, & they are especially powerful when having ninja clones.
_________________
"You don't have to believe in yourself, because I believe in you." - Drax the Destroyer
https://youtube.com/DawnHibiki


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:39 am 


User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 13450
Location: SODOM
Great game ImageImage Besides feeling distinctly Kage+Contra, it also seems to prefigure ex-Irem Nazca's Metal Slug in some regards... like the free enemy contact allowing for wild crowd rucks (it's all good until someone connects with a weapon!), and the massive hitboxes on power weapons giving that "press the button, five guys die" largesse.
_________________
Image
To be honest, that shit felt good.
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [TRAGEDY FLAME]


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:49 am 


User avatar

Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 2986
Location: Brooklyn NY
I don't think I'm figuring out a great mystery of the universe, but after years here I'm pretty sure Saigo is Birru's desert island game.

If not that then Ninja Warriors.
_________________
I'm glad you made it.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: So why aren't run and gun games not considered shmups?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:25 am 


User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 13450
Location: SODOM
Saigo and TNWA (SFC) are on the list of ten, definitely. (no way in hell could I choose just one Image) Both have killer mechanics, nonstop pace and a healthy degree of raging (yet controllable) chaos. Hundreds of hours on both and I'll still get reliably knocked on my ass if not 110% switched on. TNWA is also effectively two games in one. Master Kunoichi and you'll still have precious little idea of how to use Ninja, and vice-versa.

TNWAA (PS4) might be an even stronger game, certainly for time attack, but I slightly prefer the original's 4:3 pressure. This st7-2 monorail fight is one of my favourite things I've ever captured on video. I know if any of those fuckers get loose, it's gonna turn into Cat Herder 9000, so I shut 'em down with nonstop pressure. (`ω´メ) If you're quick and accurate enough, there's little you can't do with regards to crowd manipulation - it's a remarkably visceral, tactile brawler, fuelled by Natsume's absolutely Godlike i-frame sense (a sense that has, commendably, grown even more transcendent with TNWAA, Wild Guns Reloaded, and undoubtedly, their upcoming Kiki Kaikai). Anyone who enjoys whooping ass against the odds should play TNWA and TNWAA post-haste.

Also bangin Hiroyuki Iwatsuki tunes Image

Spoiler: show
Image

Image

Image
_________________
Image
To be honest, that shit felt good.
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [TRAGEDY FLAME]


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group