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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:27 pm 



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pegboy wrote:
What about Battletoads (arcade version)?

I like Super Battletoads, it's pretty unorthodox though so FF fundamentals will not get you far in this. You need to route this one quite a bit because the enemies are pretty relentless and you need to pile them asap (nothing wrong with that, sometimes you want a stricter game). Only thing that's a bit disappointing about it is the final stage.
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:30 am 


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Gave Burning Fight a go last night. Quite like it actually, possibly more so than Final Fight. Feels a little more fair IMO.

Am I alone in thinking those Konami licenced brawlers are all terrible, terrible pieces of crap? I've made several attempts to get into them over the years, but they pretty much all feel like blatant coin-suckers to me. Good for a little nostalgia trip, but pretty useless otherwise.
Only one I can't actually speak for it Turtles in Time. Never played the arcade but I did finish the SNES one on hard so I know that version at least wasn't designed too cheaply.

Oh, wait, Vendetta. I got well addicted to that in the early MAME days, almost 1cc'd it if I remember correctly. Although am I dreaming, or did one version of that ruin everything by including Gauntlet-style decreasing energy meters? AA release for this please.
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:07 pm 


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Marc wrote:
Am I alone in thinking those Konami licenced brawlers are all terrible, terrible pieces of crap? I've made several attempts to get into them over the years, but they pretty much all feel like blatant coin-suckers to me.


This is my exact opinion on them, particularly the licensed games which I'm most familiar with. Their hit detection is janky as all hell, enemies break out of basic combos at-will, and the licensed games (TMNT, Simpsons, X-Men) are overhyped. TMNT and X-Men both have those throws which just kind of happen and aren't really player controllable as to if/when you'll throw an enemy. For instance, look at optimal play vs a number of bosses and you'll see it's unintuitive nonsense like poke once -> move down -> poke once -> move up. If you try to do a full basic attack string, you'll get wrecked.

Worse, many of Konami games in general added the dumb drain health over time thing not seen in the Japanese releases. In general, the JP releases are better, but not necessarily good compared particularly to Capcom's various beat 'em ups.

Metamorphic Force is the only Konami one I can stand to play because it's got more going for it mechanically, and even it has a fair amount of jankiness. Konami does have some good licensed games though. GI Joe's quite fair and playable (the JP ver at least, not familiar with the other ones) and Wild West C.O.W. Boys of Moo Mesa is one of the only Konami games I can think of where the default settings on the US version are still reasonable to clear with and not outright credit feedy compared to the JP/international version (the US defaults are still worse though, removing level select, starting you with one less life, and making a specific low enemy unhittable except when doing downwards attacks as opposed to simply ducking and firing).
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:00 pm 


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I bought Asterix under some weird assumption that it was the best of them, and because I love the Asterix comics.

While I wouldn't call it an awful game, it's a really boring one that I didn't want to bother going all the way for a 1CC on. I played just enough to make sure no one else would have the patience to beat me in a weekly scoring competition for the occasion, and decided not to touch it again.


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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:15 pm 



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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
TMNT and X-Men both have those throws which just kind of happen and aren't really player controllable as to if/when you'll throw an enemy.


Can't say a thing about X-Men, but the throws in TMNT are indeed player-controllable, the basic combo which ends with it is time-based. It's one this game's fundamentals together with the 2-buttons special attack if you want to get anywhere, but it's still a bit janky no matter what. Wasn't really designed for Japan, after all.


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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:37 pm 


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I was told by a player streaming the game (working on a 1CC of X-Men on the hardest setting or something like that) that the throws in X-Men were based on # enemies defeated and that every certain # enemies "charged" up your throw so your throw could trigger. Something like that, it's deterministic and not like a player-controlled throw where you manually grab enemies to throw them whenever you get a grab. Details here, this answer lines up with the info I was given. I'm probably mistaken about how the TMNT games work, I assumed it was done a similar way because of how it felt.
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:46 pm 


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Ugh. No. Konami brawlers suck.

If one character in ANY of them had a mechanically sound grapple they would have been S tier.

Yeah you can grab in Crime Fighters (the ost is the best thing about the game), but it feels like waiting for three cherries to line up on a slot machine as to if it will work or not. After SOR 2 came out I never touched another Konami belt scroller in the arcade.

Shame too - Crime Fighters had some sweet bosses.
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:28 pm 


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Stevens wrote:
If one character in ANY of them had a mechanically sound grapple they would have been S tier.


This is the main reason Metamorphic Force struck me as being way more playable. Uses a traditional "walk into the enemy" grabble system that's fairly reliable, one character functions as a Haggar style grappler, two of them have special grab attacks by holding up when attacking or pressing jump + attack together, etc.
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:35 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
Stevens wrote:
If one character in ANY of them had a mechanically sound grapple they would have been S tier.


This is the main reason Metamorphic Force struck me as being way more playable. Uses a traditional "walk into the enemy" grabble system that's fairly reliable, one character functions as a Haggar style grappler, two of them have special grab attacks by holding up when attacking or pressing jump + attack together, etc.


Ahh...never played it!
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:36 pm 


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Also see Violent Storm for the "walk in and grapple/special" in a Konami game.
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:35 pm 


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64th Street (Jaleco 1991) is now available on PS4/Switch. I had never heard of this game but decided to give it a shot.

Seems a bit slow paced, but throwing enemies into terrain to smash up the background is really satisfying. Sort of like Ninja Gaiden (the beatemup) where I spend a lot time lining up ways to break stuff and get more items. I'm having a bit of trouble pulling off forward+attack special attacks consistently though, I wonder if the timing is just really strict? Only made it to stage 3 so far, but pleasantly surprised at the moment as my expectations were zero.
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:57 pm 


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Jeneki wrote:
Also see Violent Storm for the "walk in and grapple/special" in a Konami game.

Will do!

Looks like Konami did start upping their game at the time.
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:40 pm 


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Violent storm is probably my favorite arcade beater. Not for the gameplay in particular, though it is solid, but rather for the aesthetic. I don't think another
arcade game did comedic/cliche post-apoc and still made it look cool. The closest I can think of is forgotten worlds but that game is going for something else and just happens to be hammy.
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:28 pm 


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I was thinking of getting the (expensive) D&D Collection for Saturn, when I remembered it had been re-released on current stuff. But I also remembered it was a limited time thing, and sure enough it's already been delisted for Switch.

Weirdly, the Wii U version is still up, for ~$15. Loads faster than Saturn, has built-in achievements and off tv play? Sold.


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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:41 pm 


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Sengoku Strider wrote:
But I also remembered it was a limited time thing, and sure enough it's already been delisted for Switch.

Don't know if Steam is an option for you, but it's up there too.
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:31 am 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
Sengoku Strider wrote:
But I also remembered it was a limited time thing, and sure enough it's already been delisted for Switch.

Don't know if Steam is an option for you, but it's up there too.


Unfortunately it is not. Somebody at Apple decided Mac gaming was going to forever suck, and that was that.

Fortunately, I happen to like gaming on the Wii U gamepad. It fits my hands like it was molded for them.


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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:41 am 


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Sengoku Strider wrote:
Somebody at Apple decided Mac gaming was going to forever suck, and that was that.


Hahah nah, blame john carmack.
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:22 pm 


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PerishedFraud ឵឵ wrote:
Violent storm is probably my favorite arcade beater. Not for the gameplay in particular, though it is solid, but rather for the aesthetic. I don't think another
arcade game did comedic/cliche post-apoc and still made it look cool. The closest I can think of is forgotten worlds but that game is going for something else and just happens to be hammy.



The closest I can think of is Mutation Nation. Maybe I'm reaching and it's just in my head...but the look of Violent Storm reminds me of where MN could have left off (sprite style, some character designs, and even a few moves), though Konamified of course. I'm not saying that both games necessarily strived for the same theme/aesthetic either, but if I was told some members of the Mutation Nation team left SNK to work on Violent Storm, I'd believe it (though I highly doubt this was the case).

Violent Storm hardly resembles the visual style of the previous beltscrollers Konami developed. Yes, it looks closer to something like Monster Maulers/Dadandarn or Martial Champion than say Metamorphics Force or X-Men, but there still is something different about it...
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:18 pm 


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What's the opinion around here about Maou Renjishi?
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:05 am 


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Turrican wrote:
What's the opinion around here about Maou Renjishi?


Nothing too good but it's certainly unique and the music kicks ass. I feel that if you played as a ronin instead of a kabuki it would've been far more popular.

Compare
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:12 am 


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re: the konami talk, batman returns on sfc is konami trying to do final fight and it's actually pretty solid
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:33 am 


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Jeneki wrote:
64th Street (Jaleco 1991) is now available on PS4/Switch. I had never heard of this game but decided to give it a shot.

Seems a bit slow paced, but throwing enemies into terrain to smash up the background is really satisfying. Sort of like Ninja Gaiden (the beatemup) where I spend a lot time lining up ways to break stuff and get more items. I'm having a bit of trouble pulling off forward+attack special attacks consistently though, I wonder if the timing is just really strict? Only made it to stage 3 so far, but pleasantly surprised at the moment as my expectations were zero.


Yeah, quite enjoying this myself. Pretty basic, but satisfyingly meaty.
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:32 am 


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Glad to see some impressions on 64th Street. :smile: MAMEd it once, a lifetime back. Only things I could recall were 1] the characters being named (at least in the English localisation) "Rick and Allen" for shaweet Def Leppard reference, and 2] it being distinctly post-Final Fight. Also, said dudes apparently cameo in renowned cancelled STG Chimera Beast, getting nommed up by the titular cosmic horror.

Completely forgot about the scenery-smashing mechanic, that certainly piques my interest. Ninja Gaiden's still feels fresh as all hell. Besides the sheer viscerality, demolishing scenery with deft throws is a genuine tactical element. Zako are basically keys to unlocking powerup chests, except it's not a key/lock situation, but a face/windshield one. Image Image

A punt is fine too!
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I'd fired up 64th Street hoping it was another beltscroller from my youth, whose name I couldn't recall. Turned out to be ADK's similarly cod-noir Gang Wars... which seems like a relatively rare example of a Double Dragon riff (as opposed to an FF one). Love that vicious arm-drag finisher, oof. Doesn't seem to play too great from this ReplayBurners 1LC, but some good games look pretty jank at master level. Wouldn't be opposed to an ACA release.

(Gang Wars is also worth a look for aficionados of ADK/early SNK's lovable d-film cornballism. Even the punks are notoriously incompetent!)

Jaleco's in-house 80s stuff is consistently mediocre in my experience, but I think the early 90s saw them struggle over the line to "pretty good." It's kinda moving to witness. :lol: See also recent ACA release EDF. Looking forward to Rod Land too, the single-screen platformer with the gayest and best name.
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 3:24 pm 


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I can't believe I missed out on Violent Storm for a while, it seems to be pretty solid and delightfully campy.

Most of what was sketchy in terms of Konami's beat 'em ups seems to be its licensed cartoon games, then?
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:45 pm 



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Too bad it's so poorly emulated on Mame after all these years, like most of the mid-90s Konami stuff.


Batman Returns has too-long stages and a too-assholic Catwoman, but it's hard not to like it.


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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:24 pm 


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BIL wrote:
Turned out to be ADK's similarly cod-noir Gang Wars... which seems like a relatively rare example of a Double Dragon riff (as opposed to an FF one). Love that vicious arm-drag finisher, oof. Doesn't seem to play too great from this ReplayBurners 1LC, but some good games look pretty jank at master level.


Nah bil, game's just flat out bad. Maybe not by that age's standards but with today's clarity it's one of those games that you play for novelty and novelty alone. Its aesthetic is unique and cool at least.
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:11 pm 


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Jeez. Seeing Gang Wars reminded me of Tough Turf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnsR1oyDCY8

Anyone?
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:46 pm 


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^ lol what on fucking earth is this game???? i like that after fighting what you would think is the final boss, you release the woman from the cage... only to chase her onto the rooftop, beat the shit out of her, get a solid 2 minute score counter pump up for the win, and then have the credits roll on an image of her corpse/unconscious body.

whaaat :000
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:17 pm 


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My initial thought was it was supposed to be some weird take on The Combatribes where instead of the common "rescue the blonde" it turns out she's actually the crime boss all along or something. But then I noticed Tough Turf was made before The Combatribes.

I have no idea what's supposed to be going on at the end either. :/
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 Post subject: Re: Beat 'em Ups
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:24 pm 


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As a kid one of my local candy shops had the cab. My buddy and I (still friends 32 years later) credit fed and finished it. At the time I was all I want Tough Turf at home.

Man what was I thinking?
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