Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch List)

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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WelshMegalodon
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by WelshMegalodon »

Yes, the Sailor Moon anime had some... interesting designs where it came to monsters of the week. :lol: I don't care for most of them, to be honest, but I get that it was just following Cutey Honey's lead. That being said, I try to steer any curious fans to the manga whenever possible.
Spoiler
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I don't know how this managed to get approved.
All of the names I use for the enemies come straight from the anime and the strategy guide that was published for the Super Famicom game. The enemy in question I initially romanized as "Dumble" because that's what WikiMoon calls it, but it might actually be "Dumbbull".
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by BIL »

Sumez wrote:I should have known better than playing anime games. :oops:
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by Vanguard »

Sumez wrote:I don't know where you're picking up the names of the enemies in the game, but I wanted to figure out what a Danburu is, and let's just say it's not safe for work D:
I should have known better than playing anime games. :oops:
idgi, she looks like a perfectly ordinary children's anime villain
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Did you go to danbooru or something?
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by Sumez »

Yes, that's what Google immediately opted to correct my search term into :3

I gave the game another try today, but I'm hitting a wall on stage 3. Those naked melting ladies have me stumped, and I'm not sure how to approach them. I can grab them most of the time, but it seems kind of random. They are more likely to grab me and inflict heavy damage.

Also, the... Danburus have the same thing where trying to grab them will occasionally get me grabbed instead. I can safely approach them with the jump+down+attack elbow drop, but that's not really reliable as the only way to get close.
Similar situation with the knife wielding "lord of the flies"/lost kids style enemies. After about the raft scene they'll start randomly waving their sword at any moment, which means if you try to get in at the same time you'll most likely get hit, so again it seems like jumping is the only reliably safe move?
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by WelshMegalodon »

Gold and silver Jaamanen (the melting ladies) rank among the most dangerous enemies in the game, second only to the Avogadora (the knife-wielding enemies, henceforth "Avogadra"). I'd advise you not to try grabbing or otherwise getting close to them, since I've never been able to do it consistently myself. While you can grab them, they're far more likely to grab you first, and their holds are as damaging as they are uncomfortable to watch. If you're playing as Ami or Minako, it's possible with some practice to walk away from them just as they emerge from below and create enough space to safely combo them, but for Makoto it's probably best to just use your health-draining special when they get close. Attempting to approach Green Danburu is a bad idea for the same reason. (Purple and red ones are pretty harmless).

You're more or less correct in observing that jump-ins and the special are the only safe ways to approach the Avogadra, at least with Makoto - if you're playing as Minako, her Down + Y lets you get right in their face with ease. (This is balanced by the fact that unlike Makoto, Minako can't hit Avogadra with her regular jump-in while they're spinning, at least not consistently.) I usually try to get right on top of them after a knockdown so I can take them out before they start spinning again. The fact that there are as many of these enemies in the game as there are is another reason that Usagi and Rei are firmly a tier and a half or more below the others in 1CC viability - their specials just drain way too much health.

On that note, in case you weren't already aware, holding down the L and R buttons allows you to move around while you're performing your special. It's extremely useful and 100% necessary from Stage 3 onward.

https://i.imgur.com/hI44XwD.gifv
https://i.imgur.com/vYPOP1Y.gifv

EDIT: Too lazy to figure out how to get GIFs onto Imgur, so enjoy some .mp4s instead.
https://i.imgur.com/vjjVsO0.gifv

EDIT 2: Changed names back for consistency.
Last edited by WelshMegalodon on Sat Jul 23, 2022 9:34 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by Vludi »

Venus has an infinite if you spam the jump down + y whip thing, it works with most bosses iirc. In the first game you you can infinite by timing hits before the finisher.
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by WelshMegalodon »

I feel silly now for never having tried that. It definitely makes certain parts of the game much easier.

This means that every single Sailor Moon belt scroller has infinites.
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by Sumez »

WelshMegalodon wrote:If you're playing as Mercury or Venus, it's possible with some practice to walk away from them just as they emerge from below and create enough space to safely combo them, but for Jupiter it's probably best to just use your health-draining special when they get close.
Mercury and Venus? Weren't you just calling the characters (check posts) Minako, Makoto, Ami, Rei and Usagi?
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by BIL »

Here's another for the "off-axis is fundamental" GIF collection, from this morning's Haggar 1CC. :cool: Posting, as it was done completely on instinct after a bad st2-2 finale, as I slowly improve my belt vocab.

Spoiler
Image


Andore's straight will take your motherfucking head off, as will his running tackle, so stay off-axis and start combos from there. When I attack him head-on, it's because I've secured the advantage - either in suplex iframes, or during his wakeup. Either way, I got them active frames ready and waitin' Image
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by WelshMegalodon »

Sumez wrote:
WelshMegalodon wrote:If you're playing as Mercury or Venus, it's possible with some practice to walk away from them just as they emerge from below and create enough space to safely combo them, but for Jupiter it's probably best to just use your health-draining special when they get close.
Mercury and Venus? Weren't you just calling the characters (check posts) Minako, Makoto, Ami, Rei and Usagi?
Since you don't seem familiar with the cast I thought their Sailor Senshi names might make it easier for you to differentiate between them, but I guess I will have to keep using their regular names for the sake of consistency. :lol:

If you haven't tried playing as her yet, Rei's jump-in is a spinning kick that somewhat resembles Kasugano Sakura's Shunpuu Kyaku. I don't know if I'd call it an amazing move, but it's the only non-special move that hits 360 degrees and can knock Avogadra out of their spins, so there's that. You end up having to use it more than you'd like since Rei's actual special drains so much of her lifebar.

Rei's punches also have a little more reach than her stubby arms would lead you to believe, but it's still rather easy to end up uselessly slapping empty air before the green Danburu unleash their toe pokes of death.

EDIT: I'd forgotten since I never use it, but her projectiles also come out pretty quickly.
BIL wrote:Andore's straight will take your motherfucking head off, as will his running tackle, so stay off-axis and start combos from there. When I attack him head-on, it's because I've secured the advantage - either in suplex iframes, or during his wakeup.
Very useful to know! I'll need to keep this clip in mind when facing off against the Andore trio in Final Fight GUY (and while trying to figure out how to embed GIFs in this forum, lol).

EDIT: Stupid me somehow forgot to mention that it's reasonably safe to approach Avogadra directly from above or below them (on the Y-axis, not the Z-axis).
Last edited by WelshMegalodon on Sat May 29, 2021 6:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by FinalBaton »

Fired up Final Fight 2 last night and man that seemed pretty good. Def gonna keep playing it
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by BIL »

WelshMegalodon wrote:trying to figure out how to embed GIFs in this forum, lol
The BBcode link (highlighted below) always works for me - it'll automatically apply Image

kitten mentioned her imgur account acting weird, re GIFs coming out as MP4s. I try to keep mine between 2-3mb, dunno if their uploader gets cranky beyond that.
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by Sumez »

Finished the first of the two Power Rangers sidescrollers by Natsume on SNES, and hey it's actually quite good.

Image

If the "The Movie" game is more of a Spartan X, then this one definitely veers more towards the TNWA end of the spectrum, despite apparently sharing no staff members outside of a couple of graphics guys.
Enemies have no contact damage, and you get directional throws to perform some simple crowd control. You don't get to grab and hold enemies though, and your throw invincibility is short enough that it's more likely to leave you vulnerable, so you need to be tactical about it.
The first third or so of each stage sees your character trying to survive as their "human form" or whatever, which is the most interesting part of the game. These all have very short reach, and since the basic attack all the regular enemies have is a slow but very long reaching knife jab, the only way to play offensively is by quickly moving in before they get to attack, rather than trying to out-zone them. You can get all the way in an throw them before they are able to attack, but positioning immediately becomes more important when you got more enemies grouped together, and you want to be able to stun them to avoid one guy sneaking up and attacking you while you are delivering a combo on another one.
It's a pretty simple system, but it works very well, and is another decent take on the single plane beat'em up. Although there are a few different types with different attacks and movement patterns, every enemy that you fight directly in the game is a palette swap of the same generic "foot clan" type soldier, which I'm guessing is a faceless zako probably lifted directly from the show. But it does get pretty boring fighting only the same guy - a bit more variation would truly have done wonders.

So, at one point in every stage, the boss will show up to taunt you and leave again, at which point our hero apparently decides it might be an idea to put on fighting gear when fighting these guys, which comes with a couple of improvements, most notably in reach, which will allow you to wreck the enemies with much more ease.
The remaining part of the stage will switch between enemy encounters and platform segments with few if any enemies, but plenty of traps and hazards. These platform segments can be kinda tedious, usually requiring you to wait around for stuff like trap animations, moving platforms, rising water, etc. But they do offer a nice chance of pace in a game that otherwise would easily become absurdly repetitive. The boss fights are pretty unique and usually good fun.

Image

Aaand then, at the tail end of the game, after beating five stages of the same formula, it suddenly switches format entirely (and never changes back), and you're controlling this giant robot fighting another giant robot in a setup that feels more like a fighting game with a blocking mechanic and special attacks. However, it's still best to approach each of the remaining bosses as a more traditional video game boss, waiting for specific attacks and learning how to counter them.
These scenes could easily have been very clumsy, but when you get a hang of it they really aren't too bad, and play very well. It's just a really oddball decision to change the game's format so drastically for only two boss fights in the eleventh hour, rather than trying to ramp up the system already in place.
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by __SKYe »

BIL wrote:
WelshMegalodon wrote:trying to figure out how to embed GIFs in this forum, lol
The BBcode link (highlighted below) always works for me - it'll automatically apply Image

kitten mentioned her imgur account acting weird, re GIFs coming out as MP4s. I try to keep mine between 2-3mb, dunno if their uploader gets cranky beyond that.
If you copy the "Direct Link" link, you have to change the extension from GIFV to GIF otherwise the embedding won't work.
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by BIL »

Ah yeah, I remember now... I was gonna add that even MP4 links will have an "original GIF link" option, but it'd been forever since I'd encountered a GIFV extension.
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by Mortificator »

Sumez wrote:Aaand then, at the tail end of the game, after beating five stages of the same formula, it suddenly switches format entirely (and never changes back), and you're controlling this giant robot fighting another giant robot in a setup that feels more like a fighting game with a blocking mechanic and special attacks. However, it's still best to approach each of the remaining bosses as a more traditional video game boss, waiting for specific attacks and learning how to counter them.
These scenes could easily have been very clumsy, but when you get a hang of it they really aren't too bad, and play very well. It's just a really oddball decision to change the game's format so drastically for only two boss fights in the eleventh hour, rather than trying to ramp up the system already in place.
Just about every Power Rangers episode ended up with them hopping in their mech for a giant-scale battle! Maybe the game should have included them for earlier bosses instead of just the last two, but I'm glad they made it in. It make the first SNES game feel more special than the movie game and staying only on foot. That Zord sequence also pretty much knocked-up Natsume with Power Rangers: The Fighting Edition.
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by Sumez »

I made a terrible mistake putting TNWA in my SNES when I had trouble getting a bunch of other cartridges working. Now I can't stop playing that game again, it's just too good.

I thought I got a Normal mode 1CC last time I played this game, but now I'm not really sure. The bosses on stage 5 and 6 will still randomly wreck me. Some times I can play them over and over and either get destroyed, or beat them with almost no damage taken, so I really need to work on my consistency with them.
I had one game last night where I made it through both of them without taking a death, but then I lost to the stage 7 boss (Zelos) dues to stupidly forgetting the safe(?) way to fight him.

I think I have a fairly consistent approach to Phobos & Deimos (st6) now, but I need to test it out a few more times to see how bullet proof it is. The game has a stage select, but I wish there was a boss practice mode as well. :D
Jubei (st5) is probably the biggest threat to my runs still (well, him and the st7 mortars, wtf Natsume!!). I can fight him consistently enough by blocking his recovery attack, and retaliating immediately, but once more of his goons start showing up, particularly the claw guys, I start getting in trouble.

I must be missing some key strategy here, because I remember a post in the R2RKMF thread where Vanguard claimed that one difference in normal mode is that he doesn't get any additional spawns after the first two, which is absolutely untrue, and I wonder how you're even able to destroy him without seeing the next ones? I'm pretty sure I usually get at least three sets of enemies before Jubei goes down.
Oh yeah, I'm playing as Ninja of course.
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by BrianC »

Maybe Vanguard was referring to Once Again? I definitely remember Jubei's spawns being different in TNWOA.
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by Sumez »

Hmm, that might be true. I'm not sure, though. Jubei overall is very different in TNWOA.
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by BIL »

For the st7 mortars, you can mitigate them slightly by leaving the bikes untouched (use only Atomic Drop - the other two throws damage scenery). The bikes will get blown up, eventually, but they'll stem the flow of enemies, since throwable objects (and HP restores) take up spawn slots. You can also be a cheeky prick and leave st8's hangar HP restore onscreen, hobbling the game's most massive onslaught. However I suggest deliberately scarfing it on sight, it looks cooler. :cool:

Other than that... yeah, st7 mortars are kind of a shitshow, especially for Ninja. Image You get a ton of HP restores after, so as long as you're quick, you shouldn't get too torn up. Remember you can dodge mortars by hovering. If an enemy is nearby, they'll try to counter, so Hover Diving can help there. (it can indeed also land you square on an incoming mortar)

One of my only substantive complaints with Once Again (I think they need to go balls-out with an arcade-menacing Ninja Warriors 2, but that's another topic) is it ensuring this setpiece remains assholic as ever. OA mortars have longer reaction windows, which makes st1 and st4's bombardments much less haphazard. In st7, you're now on a bridge, with some lovely scenery... and a guardrail that obscures the ground. Image So you're audio-only, while fighting an utter shitton of Shinobus, Claws and Kages, the last of whose new throwing knife is also obscured by the bridge. I get that they wanted an almighty clusterfuck, in both games, but it comes across as the quiet straight-A student completely losing his shit on hooch and whipping his hog out at graduation. :lol:
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by Sumez »

BIL wrote:(it can indeed also land you square on an incoming mortar)
This is exactly what happens much more often that what feels reasonable XD
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by Vanguard »

I find it's better to destroy the stage 7 bikes early. The enemies aren't really hard to deal with, and having less of them on screen means you have to spend more time dealing with the mortars. Best way I've found to deal with the mortars is to try to sync up the timing of your hover dives with the mortars. If you're in the air when they hit the ground then it doesn't matter where they were aiming.
Sumez wrote:I must be missing some key strategy here, because I remember a post in the R2RKMF thread where Vanguard claimed that one difference in normal mode is that he doesn't get any additional spawns after the first two, which is absolutely untrue, and I wonder how you're even able to destroy him without seeing the next ones? I'm pretty sure I usually get at least three sets of enemies before Jubei goes down.
Oh yeah, I'm playing as Ninja of course.
Respawns in normal tend to be lower quality than in hard and they seem to respawn more slowly as well, though I don't believe you can ever deplete them. I'm not sure what the exact mechanics are but my experience is that after you kill the two initial shinobus you have about a full minute to wale on Jubei before anyone else arrives. It's possible that the earlier you kill the shinobus the more private time you get with Jubei.

My old normal mode changes post is here. The wait time for normal mode Jubei's reinforcements is so long that both Skye and I were initially unsure whether he gets any at all.
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by Sumez »

Are these the guys you call Shinobu?

Image

On Normal, those are the guys that'll join the fight shortly after it starts (you got time to throw Jubei twice before they show up), and once they are gone, two claws will come in almost immediately, fucking up your day.

Image

Had a pretty good fight this time around, taking only a couple of hits towards the end. In general did really well (got Phobos and Deimos down to a science now, they can't lay a hand on me), but lost a credit to the god damn stage 7 mortars, as my only death this round :x

Almost no-missed the final boss, too. I think I'm ready to step up to Hard mode, but would like at least a basic 1CC first.
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by Vanguard »

Sumez wrote:Are these the guys you call Shinobu?
Yeah, the giant dudes' official name is Over Shinobu iirc. Strange that the claws are joining immediately after, they always take their good sweet time when I play on normal.
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by BIL »

Another good trick for st7/Ninja - grab an enemy, and instead of immediately throwing, try to keep them in your grip until a mortar is due. The swing is particularly good at generating i-frames, while clearing out your vicinity. I do something similar in st4's lengthy opening run under fire - scruff an enemy and walk along, then use them to i-frame as needed. Striking combo enders can work in a pinch, too, though they're obviously not as easily-timed.

These three sequences are all about mitigation, ultimately. In all three of the Ninja/Hard 1CCs I've recorded, I get ~50% of my HP trashed in st7's bombardment, something that'd normally burn my ass... this is an exception. :lol: (by comparison, Kunoichi/Hard only loses like ~10%)
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by Sumez »

Just had a run where I managed to get a lot of alone time with Jubei as Vanguard described, but I'm really not sure what triggers it. It might be related to killing the Shinobus fast, but I think there's something else to it.
The major difference is that I stayed at the top of my game and completely wrecked him, he hardly got a say in how the fight went down. So at least triggering the delayed second wave is probably somehow related to playing well. :P Maybe certain states of the boss prevents counting down the timer or something? It could also be related to the positioning of the screen scroll.

Made a few mistakes along the way and almost lost my game against Zelos. Did super well on the final stage until I eventually somehow screwed up at the otherwise really easy encounter right before the final boss (on the screen with the healing item) and went in with almost no health left. Ended my run right there D:

Image

I don't really care now, I know I can do a Normal 1CC, but I don't have the patience to wait for the right run, and decided to go for Hard mode instead. Holy fuck this is hard, I have no idea how so many of you guys seem to have no trouble churning out 1CCs (which are, by extent, 1LCs) of this thing.
The enemy AI is definitely more aggressive. It doesn't really show with some of the enemies, but rifle guys will shoot much more frequently, and one very notable difference is that enemies that will duck when attacking you, are much more likely to do so. And I kinda don't like that, to be honest. It means I can approach fewer enemies head on with a punching combo, and need to either dash/stun them or duck preemptively. And ducking in this game just feels... kinda cheap, overall? I guess you get knocked down easier as a countermeasure, but it still feels wrong to me. I also think I'm going to need to rely much more on Ninja's "jump kick" which is another move I don't use much because it feels a little overpowered.
But then again, that is kind of the theme of this game. Making your character feel absurdly overpowered, yet still creating a balanced challenge for it.
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by BIL »

That screenshot looks so amazin Image AMAZIN

Ninja and Kunochi's Hard games are definitely pretty hard. I was getting my ass handed to me in two pieces by #1 evil fireman CHAINSAW BULL for a while, before I figured things out. Particularly for Ninja, it's all about learning to exploit your iframes. A brawler truism, but worth noting here, with his lack of conventional evasion. You can be massively aggressive with TNWA (that godlike SFC Natsume iframe sense, also seen in Wild Guns, and both games' remakes), and it's the difference between mere survival and domination.

Spoiler
Image


Atomic Drop, Nunchaku, Giant Swing - all are critical to reversing his low mobility. Always regard enemies as tools first, hazards second - rather than capitalising with AD, you may well be better off hurling that Flamethrower into his backup, then boosting in and preying on the waking mass with a stiff PPP beatdown. I'm fairly happy with my ~40min 1LCs (redid the latter after discovering st8's split path is effectively EZ/Hard), but I could tell there's a whole echelon of finesse and consistency I was only just scratching - much the same for Kunoichi.

This is why TNWA loses 0.0% of its value even with the comparably excellent TNWOA around, btw. :cool: While the latter's more of a freewheeling combo exhibit/riot simulator, TNWA's Ninja/Kunochi Hard games are 4:3 survival pressure cookers. Enemies can get their fists and blades in your face in a split-second, and pincers can erupt out of nowhere. They really play totally differently.

Something I found helped, after returning to WA for those runs, a couple years back: don't think of enemies, even zako, as individuals, but rather a collective unit. You really can't afford to focus on any one target for long. Another brawler truism, but again, it's especially critical with the 2D plane. If the enemy is on either side, fix that pronto, then set to work on demolishing them. If they're to one side, but up and attacking, know that they'll be able to floor you very easily (Knife Army trios will burn through your 3hit allowance in a flash).

RE crouching - I don't recommend it, outside of the most obvious evasive scenarios (IE a Flamethrower or Rifle about to loose a head-height blast). You're a lot better-served tanking through a couple jabs/pokes and nailing the attacker with a grapple, or in Ninja's case, executing Nunchaku. (if you're regularly getting swamped as Ninja, you're probably not using Nunchaku enough)
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by Sumez »

All of what you are saying is still true on Normal mode, though. :) I-frames are Ninja's bread and butter. It's kind of crazy how chainsaw bull changes from a complete pushover to a major obstacle on Hard mode despite not changing his pattern at all. Dealing with his friends is the biggest problem. It's easy when they are on opposite ends of the screen, or you're all ganged up like in your GIF. But if you're in one end, and he's in the other end with one of his chums, there's almost no way to close the distance. Block his attack you'll get punished by whoever he brings instead. Try to dash over there, and you'll likely bump into one of them before being able to deliver a kick, leaving you open to the other's counter attack (which is probably going to be a chainsaw to your face).

I checked out your playthrough, and the pattern you're using to start out the encounter looks like a good way to contain the Panther when it spawns, and stay on top of the fight.
I feel like there's a bit more of that in hard mode. Even on Normal, the biggest challenges outside of the bosses are certain enemy spawns designed to pincer you, where your positioning before it happens can change the experience entirely. A monkey or fire breather in the wrong location can be almost impossible to deal with at the early stage of any encounter before you get things under control, or even a rifle guy isolated from you in the wrong end of the screen can turn surprisingly deadly. But if you're positioned to kick it off with a strategic throw it's almost a non-issue. And there are a lot more of these setups on Hard for sure.

Good to know you're not relying on ducking that much, I'll have to find a different way to deal with these situations (seems like most panthers and snakes will choose to go for a standing punch if you just let them come at you, rather than aggressively moving towards them?)
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by BIL »

TBH I jumped straight in on Hard, because I was bonering like mad at the game's very existence, and wanted it to give me as arcadey a time as possible :oops: Not something I normally do (Contra Spirits providing a model example of a console acadesque whose "Hard" difficulty is more like a second loop, full of nasty snares only Normal vets can possibly see coming) - but TNWA is exceptional. :cool:
Sumez wrote:It's easy when they are on opposite ends of the screen, or you're all ganged up like in your GIF. But if you're in one end, and he's in the other end with one of his chums, there's almost no way to close the distance. Block his attack you'll get punished by whoever he brings instead. Try to dash over there, and you'll likely bump into one of them before being able to deliver a kick, leaving you open to the other's counter attack (which is probably going to be a chainsaw to your face).
If I get stranded in his optimal striking range, without any zako to throw, I'll typically approach with my guard up - watching for him to rev his chainsaw. When he strikes, I'll Tumble (Jump during Guard) into range, and try to land an Atomic Drop. If I don't reach him, it's no biggie - the Tumble will iframe through anything, while instantly returning you to Guard. It won't take more than a couple to close the distance, the trick is to Tumble when he's busy attacking, so you can snatch him.

(this is making me think of his new throw in Once Again, haha. so many tweaks and additions, great and small)

TNWA being so volatile by nature, each run will vary a little, but that's my general tack with him, as well as any other enemy with a powerful, long-ranged strike (Phantom Gecko/st3 and Zelos/st7 come to mind). Note that, while striking bosses during wakeup is usually suicide, due to their brutal wakeup iframes, TNWA's grapples snap on so instantly, you can easily snatch bosses out of wakeup. So one AD can easily lead to another, and another (that's what's happening in that GIF, pretty much).
I checked out your playthrough, and the pattern you're using to start out the encounter looks like a good way to contain the Panther when it spawns, and stay on top of the fight.
I feel like there's a bit more of that in hard mode. Even on Normal, the biggest challenges outside of the bosses are certain enemy spawns designed to pincer you, where your positioning before it happens can change the experience entirely. A monkey or fire breather in the wrong location can be almost impossible to deal with at the early stage of any encounter before you get things under control, or even a rifle guy isolated from you in the wrong end of the screen can turn surprisingly deadly. But if you're positioned to kick it off with a strategic throw it's almost a non-issue. And there are a lot more of these setups on Hard for sure.
There's definitely a hard memo aspect to mastering TNWA (just like any tougher arcadesque, really) - knowing where certain spawns materialise/drop in is vital. There'll always be a bit of RNG spillover to contend with, but yeah, you can definitely defang would-be chokepoints as you describe.
Good to know you're not relying on ducking that much, I'll have to find a different way to deal with these situations (seems like most panthers and snakes will choose to go for a standing punch if you just let them come at you, rather than aggressively moving towards them?)
My memory's blurring a bit, between TNWA and Once Again - the latter's enemies have more knockdown sweeps, making crouch/evasion a bit more valuable - so I'll need to rewatch my runs, but yeah - I recall aggressively avoiding crouch on SFC. Not only will the tiniest hit floor you (potentially wrecking your meter), but Ninja and Kunoichi are both much slower while crouch-walking, hampering counter-grapples. If I get jabbed while standing, it's a snap to hit [forward], closing the gap and snuffing the attacker's momentum. Standing also makes it easier for Ninja to bust out Nunchakus, which again, you wanna do (invincible bidirectional knockdown that also does good damage, and moreover, looks sick as all hell :cool:)

On the tangent of crouch VS standing, Once Again does something I really like - crouching enemies are no longer instantly knocked down, like they are in TNWA. SFC's approach actually hurts more than it helps - you might plan on starting a combo, doing a chunk of damage to a priority target, before finishing with a crowd-flattening throw. If they decide to crouch, though? The target escapes with minimal damage, as his backup closes in. There are a lot of spots in my newest Kunoichi 1CC, where I have to quickly improvise around crouchers who foil me this way.
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Re: Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch/PS4 List)

Post by Sumez »

Credit fed through Hard mode, and this is gonna sound incredibly scrubby, and if I press on and improve, I'll probably have to eat my words... But TNWA really feels balanced around Normal mode. Like they'd experimented with different enemy constellations and taken out the ones they felt were too bullshitty, but then left those in for the Hard mode. Some enemy spawns are just completely unfair if you don't know exactly what is coming up.

The added difficulty is very frontloaded though, with stage 2-5 especially being notably harder, which in turns gives me the biggest trouble with the last two, as they are already challenging on Normal. Jubei is absurd on hard mode, just as I'd finally got him down reliably, I'm back to zero with this mode. Even if I could get there with full health, I'm not sure how to consistently survive.
Silverman however is very similar on Hard, but faces you with some slightly tougher crowds which makes the fight a little more entertaining, so that is cool.

Interestingly, stages 6 and 7 aren't very different on Hard. You'll face a bunch more enemies in the st6 hallway, but they didn't give me any additional trouble. The biggest difference IMO comes from the boss having a tad more health. Since you are fighting Phobos & Deimos on their own, that fight otherwise plays out identically to Normal (unlike Gecko, who feels more aggressive, though I might be wrong).
St7 felt almost identical to Normal, which was a big surprise! One you've survived the initial mortar attack, the rest of it was smooth sailing. A few enemy waves had a couple of added guys in the end (the pumas right before the boss caught me by surprise), but usually they won't pose any additional threat at all. Like the two pointless roombas showing up after you're done throwing golems around.
Even the boss fight seemed identical to me, with the same enemy constellations spawning next to Zelos.

Stage 8 actually felt easier to me on Hard, especially the first part. Made it to the hangar room almost without taking damage.
A massive difference comes up when you reach the healing item though, and you better pray that you haven't taken any notable damage up to this point. Because BIL's advice of leaving it on screen really comes in handy here, as that's where you suddenly run into an absurd enemy wave that seems to last forever. This is an absolutely insane addition that really makes this worthy of being the final stage. But holy hell, it's bordering on BS :P
Everything after that is completely identical to Normal mode, though. Except you get a full heal before the final boss, instead of just a large heal.

In fact, it seems like you occasionally get larger healing items on Hard than you do on Normal, to counteract some of the tougher encounters. Or maybe there's something else influencing which ones you get?
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