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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:40 am 


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ZellSF wrote:
We know this... based on no one trying?

I don't see why a resource management FPS wouldn't work today.

Doom is far more than a just resource management FPS, though. In a lot of ways it's more like a first person STG than a conventional FPS. There's the strong emphasis on dodging, of course. You're not supposed to tank hits in Doom like you'll inevitably need to do in Halo or Half Life or what have you. What few hitscan enemies exist tend to have very low health, a high pain chance (ie they are easy to stun), and are overall not much of a threat. In most FPS games, the enemies are imitations of player characters. They tend to use similar weapons to what you get. They'll employ similar tactics to what you might use, such as taking cover from attacks or lying in ambush. Snipers will keep their distance while shotgun dudes might try to rush you down. Doom's enemies, by contrast, are much simpler and more arcade-like. They march straight towards you. They don't cooperate with each other at all. They have one or two attacks each and they shoot right at you whenever they can with no regard for collateral damage. Individually they can't stand up to Doomguy at all. Even the cyberdemon is a joke if you've got a bit of room to work with.

These simple, arcadey enemies are, I think, the single most important thing that differentiates Doom from other first person shooters. Doom enemies aren't rival characters you need to outsmart or anything like that. They're puzzle pieces that the level designer puts together to create encounters. A single imp is a nonentity. A wall of a thousand imps can be dealt with fairly easily by moving perpendicular to them - in shmup terms, it's a stream attack. But just like in a shmup, you combine the stream attack with some random shots from mancubi and you've got something potentially nasty. Trade the mancubi for revenants and it's a different fight altogether. Take a bunch of easy enemies from an open space and put them in a tight hallway and suddenly they're dangerous. Take an encounter in an open room and throw up a bunch of pillars in the way and it's a totally different fight. There's a near infinite number of ways enemy groups can be assembled and each one leads to a different encounter. Really, Doom isn't revered because of how good the vanilla game is (it's fine, nothing amazing) but because it's the world's greatest build-your-own-FPS kit.

Doom's weapons aren't too far off conceptually from most first person shooters, but I don't think they've ever been surpassed. The pistol sucks and it's supposed to suck. Its job is to make the later parts of the level more cathartic once you've got real weapons and are ready for some payback. The shotgun is overshadowed by the super shotgun, but I think it's still one of the best shotguns in the genre. It oneshots quite a few enemies. Its spread is a lot tighter than most video game shotguns and it's plenty useful at long range. The super shotgun is quite simply the best shotgun in a video game. The chaingun is just the pistol with a higher rate of fire, but it interacts really well with the pain system. Good way to lock down moderately pain-sensitive enemies like revenants and cacodemons. It also has absolutely zero spread and can snipe distant targets just fine. The rocket launcher is a huge risk reward weapon, far more so than rocket launchers are in most games. Part of the reason is because Doom tends to pit you against tons of enemies, which makes splash damage really good, and also makes the danger of a monster kamikaze dashing into point blank range that much worse. Another part is because of how aiming in Doom works. In most FPS games, the safe and reliable way to use the rocket launcher is to aim at the other guy's feet. If he's too close to you you can aim at the ground a bit behind him so he's in the splash radius and you're not. That doesn't work in Doom because you can't manually aim vertically. If you want to hit a monster you need to aim right at him, or at an obstacle nearby. Its rate of fire is very high and sustained fire will melt anything in no time. The plasma is a better chaingun that uses a more exotic type of ammo. It's very good at destroying a single target quickly and it's a solid emergency weapon. It's hard to justify burning your cells on the plasma gun if you have the BFG, though. The BFG is basically a shmup bomb that'll annihilate anything on a good chunk of the map, but only after brief, vulnerable startup period. It looks like it's a better rocket launcher, it's actually a very strange and complex weapon when you get into the fine details. Functionally it's more like a bizarre, delayed, superpowered shotgun than anything else.

The fist is fun, its delay makes it challenging to use. It's genuinely very strong once you've found a berserk pack. It looks like the berserk boost only lasts while the screen is red, but it actually persists until the end of the level. Chainsaw is kinda bad, though, especially since it's glitchy. Oh well.

Blinge wrote:
I don't think you've shown how OG doom was about resource management.
Custom maps don't count.

Custom maps are the real Doom. Of course they count. Custom maps are why people still care about the game at all.

Anyway I'd say resource management is still relatively important in the base game, but only if you're playing under pistol start conduct or if you die and are thus forced into a pistol start. It's pretty easy for an early resource lead to snowball into an insurmountable advantage. The weapon balance is so good that running out of ammo and losing access to any out of your super shotgun, chaingun, or rocket launcher could pose a serious problem later on. The plasma gun and BFG are such powerful get-out-of-jail-free cards that you can mostly treat energy cells similar to STG bombs.

Remembering where you left items so you can go back for them after expending ammo is lame though.


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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:48 pm 


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Vanguard wrote:
Remembering where you left items so you can go back for them after expending ammo is lame though.

I liked how on the highest difficulty in the Marathon games they removed the limit on the maximum amount of ammo you could carry (as far as was technically possible). For continuous play you would probably end up with a ridiculous ammo stockpile, but pistol starts would resolve that issue.
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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:19 pm 


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managing ammo by knowing exactly how many shots to use per enemy and leaving ammo caches in previously cleaned out areas is one of my favorite aspects of Doom and Quake. to each their own.

i think certainly in the usermade slaughtermaps the game especially becomes like a shmup. there was one blue themed wad from 2013 i played recently swim with the whales, that really felt that way. actually one of that map designers other wads from that same year - stardate 20x6 has super R-type music as one of the levels BGM so i feel that shmuppy-ness is intentional
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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:54 pm 


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Just wanna thank Vanguard for actually saying something of worth in this thread and navigating the arguments so well that I don't have much to add.
Vanguard wrote:
Custom maps are the real Doom. Of course they count. Custom maps are why people still care about the game at all.


This is a new one on me tbh. I've always considered the standalone game, not the game as a platform for user generated content.
Skyrim is a shit buggy game? Actually no mate it isn't because of these mods and steam workshop add-ons that totally improve the game and change it from its original iteration but nevermind.
Seems problematic to me but ehh.

ZellSF wrote:
Part of Doom's resource management is that it allows you to traverse the levels at will. Doom 2016 constantly locks you into arenas. And all of the encounters are designed around you being able to fill ammo/health instantly during the fight.


You're not wrong about this.. but the thing about temporarily being locked in arenas is.. Man i just really don't care.
Quote:
I have to ask. Have you actually played Doom?


Now now, there's no need to get frustrated. :wink:
Yes. Yes I have.

Well now you've shown me the light and taught me what Doom, the real doom or not, is all about.. we can imagine the marketing. ...aaand now.. The brand new game from iD Software! Creators of Wolfenstein 3D:

Spoiler: show
THE ULTIMATE IN RESOURCE MANAGEMENT SIMULATORS: DOOM!
RIP AND TEAR THOSE SPREADSHEETS.

pro tip: count stock until it's done.


damn they're flying off the shelves.
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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:03 pm 



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Vanguard wrote:
Custom maps are the real Doom. Of course they count.


Was this the case for you and your friends around 1993? Or are you talking about years and years later?

I ask because, to me, custom maps being "the real Doom" would have to be in the same-ish time period as it was released, and back then those files would have to be easily and widely disseminated to be "the real doom". In 1993, even in 1994 with Doom II, most of us were still using 9600 or 14.4 baud models, maybe 28.8 if you had money. You could only really connect to BBS's and Usenet/Newsgroups, and most of the USA didn't even have a way to connect to the internet yet! (dial-up internet wasn't available in most parts of the USA then – even AOL, where you could portal through to the actual internet later on, was just starting their ramp up back then).

If you're taking about many years later, which I think you would have to be (even 1996 was a WORLD apart in all this internet and file sharing stuff), which was the time period when you could WAY easier find/download custom WADs and such, honestly nobody I knew was still all ramped up about Doom - we were all swept into the Duke Nukem 3d madness first, then Quake wholeheartedly took over by then (still loved Doom of course... but Quake blew our minds in the day!). I also don't think you could call anything "the real" if it came years and years after the already-popular original game.

I know I know I Know, you can talk about the TONS, probably million of sites through time all doing custom WADs for Doom years and years later, and how even NOW, current day, this still goes on... but I would still consider them fanfare/fanservice type things, which again, can in no way be confused with the original, the "real", retail released versions of Doom. And still TONS of us (like me) have never really played any custom WAD (closest for me is trying Brutal Doom earlier this year... and not even going to get into how the majority of gamers play on -eww- mobile followed by consoles... so no ability to easily even play custom WAD's for the non-PC gamers out there...).

...so to me, to end this rant lol, custom maps have absolutely nothing to do with the real Doom in my eyes, but I guess I'm just too old school since back then to even buy Doom I had to (with my parents help) order it via mail order, and never gave a thought about anything with custom maps.



Blinge wrote:
Vanguard wrote:
Custom maps are the real Doom. Of course they count. Custom maps are why people still care about the game at all.


This is a new one on me tbh. I've always considered the standalone game, not the game as a platform for user generated content.

You posted as I was writing the above, but my thoughts exactly.


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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:33 pm 



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I think it's wrong to say custom maps is the only reason people still care about Doom today, but Doom's modding scene is definitely a huge part of why it's still as popular as it is today and what it is today.

Anyone who likes Doom should definitely try some of the better rated level packs.
Dochartaigh wrote:
so no ability to easily even play custom WAD's for the non-PC gamers out there...).

There's a actually a selection of six WADs released for the console versions (seven if you count the REKKR TC). Possibly more coming, the last one was released in August.


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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:10 pm 



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ZellSF wrote:
Dochartaigh wrote:
so no ability to easily even play custom WAD's for the non-PC gamers out there...).

There's a actually a selection of six WADs released for the console versions (seven if you count the REKKR TC). Possibly more coming, the last one was released in August.

Are you talking about custom WAD's being able to be used on the ports of the original 1993/94 Doom game they have for XBO and PS4?

Or do they allow fan created new levels for the newer Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal on XBO/PS4 as well now? Just curious – can you also create those new levels on the console itself (for the old port, or new games), or need a PC to create those?

Either or sounds cool and a step forward if you're into that, but I honestly haven't been following, as my past experience has probably soured anything like this (never, ever, found any fan created one I've liked over many different games). Could be how I'm very reminiscent though – as in I very rarely can get into a retro game that I didn't play back in the day (or briefly rent, or watch a friend play for hours) as there's no fond past memories of it for me.


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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:01 pm 


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ZellSF wrote:
As said, it is a resource management game. You can get good at it. Since 1993, people have had plenty of time to get very good at it and they can afford to waste ammo. Especially shotgun shells which is the most plentiful resource in the game.


This is actually a way in which classic Doom maybe doesn't hold up. I'm saying this as someone who has spent more time with Doom 1 and 2 than I have with my family.
You get good at the shooting and the dodging, and then the game actually gets less interesting as the resource management aspect becomes meaningless. This is something fan map packs and mods have had to address by making maps with more strict resource allocations, or with enemy counts so high that the action becomes intense enough that you don't even need the resource management for an interesting experience anymore.

This contrasts with what happens when you get good at ammo management in Doom Eternal.
See, most people think of the chainsaw as a sort of obligatory reload button. And it certainly can be that, if that's where your playstyle leans. But there are enough ammo pickups strewn throughout a lot of the arenas and passages that you don't necessarily need to use the chainsaw this way; if you make efficient use of your ammo for all of your available weapons, then you don't need the chainsaw nearly as much. As a result, you can end up stacking three chainsaw charges.
And when you have three chainsaw charges, you can use it to chainsaw a bigger enemy. This is a rare treat that you can only access if you're very conscious of your resources at all times.
In this way, Doom Eternal actually rewards you for good resource management.

In conclusion, Doom Eternal has better resource management mechanics than classic Doom.

Not Doom 2016 though. Playing 2016 after Eternal feels like I'm playing a game without mechanics.


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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:33 am 



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Dochartaigh wrote:
ZellSF wrote:
Dochartaigh wrote:
so no ability to easily even play custom WAD's for the non-PC gamers out there...).

There's a actually a selection of six WADs released for the console versions (seven if you count the REKKR TC). Possibly more coming, the last one was released in August.

Are you talking about custom WAD's being able to be used on the ports of the original 1993/94 Doom game they have for XBO and PS4?

There's a curated selection of custom WADs for the ports of the 93/94 games, yes.
Dochartaigh wrote:
Either or sounds cool and a step forward if you're into that, but I honestly haven't been following, as my past experience has probably soured anything like this (never, ever, found any fan created one I've liked over many different games)

Doom II's custom wads are better than the base game, by quite a lot.

If you're wondering why I said Doom II, there aren't many Doom custom wads because that just has limitations, you can't use Doom II enemies. They're optional to use in Doom II wads of course.
Giest118 wrote:
ZellSF wrote:
As said, it is a resource management game. You can get good at it. Since 1993, people have had plenty of time to get very good at it and they can afford to waste ammo. Especially shotgun shells which is the most plentiful resource in the game.


This is actually a way in which classic Doom maybe doesn't hold up. I'm saying this as someone who has spent more time with Doom 1 and 2 than I have with my family.
You get good at the shooting and the dodging, and then the game actually gets less interesting as the resource management aspect becomes meaningless. This is something fan map packs and mods have had to address by making maps with more strict resource allocations, or with enemy counts so high that the action becomes intense enough that you don't even need the resource management for an interesting experience anymore.

This contrasts with what happens when you get good at ammo management in Doom Eternal.
See, most people think of the chainsaw as a sort of obligatory reload button. And it certainly can be that, if that's where your playstyle leans. But there are enough ammo pickups strewn throughout a lot of the arenas and passages that you don't necessarily need to use the chainsaw this way; if you make efficient use of your ammo for all of your available weapons, then you don't need the chainsaw nearly as much. As a result, you can end up stacking three chainsaw charges.
And when you have three chainsaw charges, you can use it to chainsaw a bigger enemy. This is a rare treat that you can only access if you're very conscious of your resources at all times.
In this way, Doom Eternal actually rewards you for good resource management.

In conclusion, Doom Eternal has better resource management mechanics than classic Doom.

I'm sure Doom Eternal's resource management will be even less interesting than Doom's to you too, after 25 years of practice.

Not that I think anyone but speedrunners care about chainsawing bigger enemies.


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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:05 am 


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Might wanna actually read his post. :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:58 am 


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What do I think of Doom Eternal? I did beat it, and sometimes even had fun, but it had more to do with production values rather than gameplay. Most of the time I kept dying without understanding what hit me, which was super annoying, but I also saw this as conscious design decision.

Whole game is designed so that it will force you to stay on constant move, running around and playing weapon chess with monsters; meaning that as long you keep using certain way to attack certain monster with certain weapon type, you won't be having too much trouble. And it also tells you what these tactics are.

Using trash mobs as resource management for ammo/armor/health feels silly when put up against "realistic" graphics, would feel more at home if the game was 2D 8-bit bitmap pixel art, but I didn't mind.

It took me a long time to complete it though, because I did quit in disgust couple of times. The game kinda pretends that it lets players form their own approach and tactics, but then it bitch slaps you as soon as you try to do anything else what the designers intended. You can see how it is forced in myriad ways.

In the end, it works, but it also annoys sometimes quite a bit. I do appreciate that it expects player to have some sort of skill and understanding, but at the same time it pisses me off that it does not really feel like skill-based gameplay; when you have no weapons and upgrades, it feels frustrating and when you got them all, it becomes ridiculously easy at times. I do get that this is the RPG element there, but somehow I feel there is a mismatch. Shooters should reward players with skill, not hold them back based on how many hours they have spent on exploring it.

In the end, it felt like every modern reboot; there is lot of effort and lot of nice touches and ideas, but I am not always convinced that the developers really understood what was exactly the reason that made the original so appealing.

I did not feel like wanting to go back for a higher difficulty level, but I am aware that there are those who think it gets really exciting when played on highest difficulty level.

So, in short, it's sometimes annoying but worth playing through, and I appreciate the effort. The platforming sections didn't bother me at all, though I could not resist yelling at times "It's mee! Maarioo!!"


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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:00 am 



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Blinge wrote:
Might wanna actually read his post. :wink:

Nothing I wrote indicates I didn't read his post.


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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:12 am 


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ZellSF wrote:
I'm sure Doom Eternal's resource management will be even less interesting than Doom's to you too, after 25 years of practice.


Future tense.
Is English not your first language? Genuine question.

Here look i'll fix it for you.
Quote:
I would've thought Doom Eternal's resource management would be even less interesting than Doom's..
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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:27 am 



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Blinge wrote:
ZellSF wrote:
I'm sure Doom Eternal's resource management will be even less interesting than Doom's to you too, after 25 years of practice.


Future tense.
Is English not your first language? Genuine question.

Here look i'll fix it for you.
Quote:
I would've thought Doom Eternal's resource management would be even less interesting than Doom's..

It's supposed to be future tense, it's a comment about what it will be like after 25 years.

English isn't my first language no, so you have to explain better how that indicates I didn't read his post.


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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:04 am 


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ZellSF wrote:
English isn't my first language no


Aw nevermind then
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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:57 am 



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If you're unable to explain I'm probably better at English than you. Or are you just being rude?


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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:45 am 


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I'm at the last boss. I took a breather, as I figured it's going to be a bit of a pain.

That being said, the story in this is firmly in "gobbledygook" territory, for me. I mean, it's not that big of a deal, but it did have me rolling my eyes.
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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:13 pm 


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ZellSF wrote:
If you're unable to explain I'm probably better at English than you. Or are you just being rude?


I'm being rude but it only works on a native speaker.
Yes, you're better at English than me. :lol: :lol:

Jfc, go back to your resource management sims.
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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:35 pm 



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Blinge wrote:
ZellSF wrote:
If you're unable to explain I'm probably better at English than you. Or are you just being rude?


I'm being rude but it only works on a native speaker.
Yes, you're better at English than me. :lol: :lol:

Jfc, go back to your resource management sims.

Hey if you want to shit up a Doom Eternal thread with trolling that's fine by me. As said, I'm not a fan of the game anyway.
evil_ash_xero wrote:
I'm at the last boss. I took a breather, as I figured it's going to be a bit of a pain.

Very minor gameplay spoiler:
Spoiler: show
BFG ammo and crucible charges respawn constantly. So just instakill tougher enemies. It's still time consuming since it's hard to see where you're supposed to hit to damage the actual boss.

Time consuming, but not difficult.

I think the only boss I struggled with (as in more than three attempts) was
Spoiler: show
the doom hunters.


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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:11 pm 


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So I played a couple of levels on a pirated copy of the game, I liked it enough that I decided to stop playing until I get a new computer and a legit copy.

I've heard people compare the game to a character action game ala Devil May Cry in that the game incentivizes usage of your entire repertoire of moves. Only thing that's missing is a style meter, but hey, maybe they could add in an arcade mode like with the 2016 doom.

So yeah, I think the big wedge issue is how little ammo you're able to carry for any given weapon, since in classic doom and doom 2016 you could basically stick with a few choice weapons, but in Eternal you're forced to be constantly switching up your weapons and occasionally chainsawing for an ammo top-off. My opinion is not objective truth, but I like the change since it forces proficiency with your entire arsenal, keeping things fresh and keeping the player from getting too complacent.

As for the increased emphasis on platforming and movement, well I think that sometimes people forget that movement is a massive part of classic FPS, weaving in and out of enemy fire, making a mad dash for a health pickup or ammo, bunny hopping, rocket jumping... I think Eternal's implementation of movement is a natural evolution of the emphasis on movement.

I do wish the modern doom games had a better modding SDK or something, snapmap in the first game was kind of a joke, and it seems like the devs know it since it didn't return for eternal.
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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:28 pm 


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ZellSF wrote:
I'm sure Doom Eternal's resource management will be even less interesting than Doom's to you too, after 25 years of practice.


If I'm still playing Doom Eternal after 25 years, then I will still need to physically do things that involve resource management to play it well, whereas I never will in classic Doom. :)


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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:43 am 


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Blinge wrote:
This is a new one on me tbh. I've always considered the standalone game, not the game as a platform for user generated content.
Skyrim is a shit buggy game? Actually no mate it isn't because of these mods and steam workshop add-ons that totally improve the game and change it from its original iteration but nevermind.
Seems problematic to me but ehh.

I would have no problem with this if Skyrim was a mechanically outstanding game in want of quality content, or if it had FromSoft-tier bosses and dungeons and just needed a few houserules to make them shine. Classic Doom is decisively the former. Skyrim is neither and to make it into a good game you'd have to basically rebuild the whole thing. Although, supposing someone had made a full mechanical rewrite of Skyrim that turned it into a deep action RPG, and then for 25 years tons of people made and played fan campaigns for it, I might be okay with calling Skyrim+ the real Skyrim.

Dochartaigh wrote:
Was this the case for you and your friends around 1993? Or are you talking about years and years later?

I never played more than a few hours of Doom until after 2010. Vanilla Doom was of course very impressive in its time. and it's still perfectly enjoyable today. But it's grown since then in a way I don't think any other game has. It's not the same game anymore. The closest comparison I can think of is Tribes before and after the discovery of the skiing glitch, though I'm given to understand that happened very early on. Doom 1 has decent levels but a bland set of enemies. Doom 2 has first rate monster design and adds the super shotgun, but overall poor levels. With WADs you can finally get the complete package.

Giest118 wrote:
This is actually a way in which classic Doom maybe doesn't hold up. I'm saying this as someone who has spent more time with Doom 1 and 2 than I have with my family.
You get good at the shooting and the dodging, and then the game actually gets less interesting as the resource management aspect becomes meaningless.

This is how every resource management system works. Get really good at an STG and you don't need your bombs for survival anymore. You can do an NMNB clear or use your bombs for score, or speedkill your least favorite boss.


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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:12 am 



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cave hermit wrote:
So yeah, I think the big wedge issue is how little ammo you're able to carry for any given weapon, since in classic doom and doom 2016 you could basically stick with a few choice weapons, but in Eternal you're forced to be constantly switching up your weapons and occasionally chainsawing for an ammo top-off. My opinion is not objective truth, but I like the change since it forces proficiency with your entire arsenal, keeping things fresh and keeping the player from getting too complacent.

I thought weapon balance was looking good, until they linked a movement skill and armor recovery to a single weapon.
cave hermit wrote:
I do wish the modern doom games had a better modding SDK or something, snapmap in the first game was kind of a joke, and it seems like the devs know it since it didn't return for eternal.

I wouldn't really expect much quality to come out from a modding SDK for a modern game. There's a reason the original Doom has so much quality content: it's relatively easy to create.

Of course that's not the reason publishers are not doing it (they do want you to think that, of course). They just don't want free competition to their content.


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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:04 am 


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Vanguard wrote:
I would have no problem with this if Skyrim was a mechanically outstanding game in want of quality content, or if it had FromSoft-tier bosses and dungeons and just needed a few houserules to make them shine. Classic Doom is decisively the former. Skyrim is neither and to make it into a good game you'd have to basically rebuild the whole thing. Although, supposing someone had made a full mechanical rewrite of Skyrim that turned it into a deep action RPG, and then for 25 years tons of people made and played fan campaigns for it, I might be okay with calling Skyrim+ the real Skyrim.


So what you're saying is.. the real Doom is the friends we made along the way?
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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:46 am 


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I actually never liked Doom, or FPS in general. I know I'm gonna get crucified for that.

However, I really liked Doom 2016. I think a lot of it had to do with the speed and finishing moves. It just felt a lot more exciting to me.
I finished Eternal, and the more I play it, the more I like it. It does throw too much stuff at you, at once, to learn. There's too much platforming, although
I like that they added it. It should just have been toned down. And the ammunition/health/shield management is a bit of a punch in the face. You complain,
and you get "oh, it's simple. You use the chainsaw for weapons. You use the finishing moves for health. You use the flamethrower for shield". It's a bit at one time.
And you really got to get a handle on it. Then throw in the toughness of the game, and how quickly you can be seeing a grey screen if you don't know what you're doing.

But I really like it. I thought the ending was crappy. 2016 didn't have much of an ending either. Just a lot of metal, and a cool credits sequence. I really didn't care to see
photo after photo of everyone who worked on the game. Yawn.

For the next one, I would actually like them to tone down on some stuff. They went kind of nuts on this one. It certainly wasn't taking the safe route.
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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:11 am 


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Doom '16 is a white-knuckle, tightly paced, classic throwback experience.

Eternal wears out its welcome real fast. It's fun to play through once, but unlike '16, I have no desire to replay it. It just drags way too much, and the gimmick fights are no fun at all.
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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:44 am 


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I love all Doom Games,Enernal is no exception.
I´m very excited for the Eternal Add ons (Part 1 in two weeks)


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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:03 am 



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The last doom games i played were doom 2 and final doom. Haven't played and of the modern dooms, eternal was the first one. For me this is a new quake game with a doom skin. It doesn't play like doom at all. Don't get me wrong it's a great game if you're into quake, for me it's just not doom at all in it's gameplay. For a doom game, i was pretty disappointed.


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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:43 am 


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Haven't played Eternal yet, but I enjoyed 2016.

While it lacks the shoot-em-up x dungeon-crawl gameplay of Doom 1 and 2, I feel the break into a new style is ultimately forgivable considering there's no way the game could have competed with those game and especially not the metric ton of mods and fan content that's been refined and polished for 30 years. If I was making a new Doom game, I sure as hell wouldn't try to compete with that shit.

Instead, I think it does a good job of focusing on high-speed dodging-focused combat (the part that feels most "Doomy"), with a few twists in the format only possible in a modern big budget title. I liked the more 3-dimensional level layouts and focus on platformings during arenas as enemies pathfind themselves every witch way across the walls, floors, and ceilings of these gauntlets to cut you off at every angle.

Certainly wasn't perfect, but for a game with such big boots to fill, I thought it was a noble effort and I had a great deal of fun with it.
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 Post subject: Re: What'd you guys think of Doom Eternal?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:27 am 


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Squire Grooktook wrote:
shoot-em-up x dungeon-crawl gameplay

That's a really good way to describe it


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