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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:57 pm 


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d0s wrote:
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Are these similar to the NES Advantage (which is a US version of one of the Ascii sticks)? I know some JP stick counterparts have microswitches when the US counterparts don't. Is that the case here?

Is that pad for MSX? It looks similar to the Joycard I have for FC, which is a nice pad.


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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:23 pm 


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NOW my favorite stick.
Hori Hrap4 Kai modded with all Seimitsu parts
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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:48 pm 


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BrianC wrote:
Are these similar to the NES Advantage (which is a US version of one of the Ascii sticks)? I know some JP stick counterparts have microswitches when the US counterparts don't. Is that the case here?


No, these are the high end microswitched sticks. Yeah, the NES advantage is also an ASCII stick IIRC but of a lower grade model with rubber domes or something. These sticks are similar to the sticks that come with a Neo-Geo AES.

BrianC wrote:
Is that pad for MSX? It looks similar to the Joycard I have for FC, which is a nice pad.


That pad is for 9-pin connectors, which became kind of a loose standard. It works with MSX, X68000, FM Towns, some Sega stuff like the Master System, etc. Also works with things like C64, Amiga, many Atari systems. It's pretty much exactly like the Hudson Joycard for Famicom and yeah it's really nice.

e: This is the ASCII stick the NES Advantage is based on:

Image

Funnily enough the official Nintendo licensed stick for the Famicom in Japan is made by Hori (though it's not a very good stick, similar to the Advantage):

Image

And it got released in the US as a third party stick, as "Shinsei Hyper Stick":

Image

Also released under the Hyper name in the US was this very good Hori pad, great pad if you're stuck with only a US NES:

Image

Image

This pad was also released as a licensed Sega product for the Master System, and should really be the default MS pad because of the horrible dpad on the originals:

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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:45 am 


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Thanks for the info. I have an AV Famicom and an AVS (which has an accessory port, extra nes style ports, and the ability to use US Arkanoid controllers and the extra controller ports with JP games, as well as the standard NES ports), as well as the NES. I'm not sure if it's the case here, but some of those US controllers have the benefit of a longer cord.

My default pad for SMS is the Genesis pad. Most of the problem games (only a handful, but most notable among them are Penguin Land and Wonder Boy in Monster Land) with it play fine with it on a Japanese SMS or a Genesis/MD with PBC or other adapter/flash cart in Japanese mode. There are hacks available, as well.


Last edited by BrianC on Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:17 am 


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kog3100_edw wrote:
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Image

NOW my favorite stick.
Hori Hrap4 Kai modded with all Seimitsu parts

Where did you get those buttons? Looking good :D Shame Baiken is so weak :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:25 am 


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Seimitsu clear snap-ins from Focus Attack.
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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:16 am 


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yo who moved this thread about hardware into offtopic, shit says joysticks in the title cmon son


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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:19 pm 



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The Hori Real Arcade Pro V Hayabusa for the Nintendo Switch platform is ace for those old-school titles requiring the use of a proper arcade stick setup. It also comes with the 2nd-gen matte Hori push buttons installed (compared to the original Hori Kuro push buttons used on the Hori Fighting Edge series for the PS3/360). It come stock with a square gate already mounted as well + the usual autofire rates of between 5, 10 or 20 shots per second if it needed be. Needs an external male USB-C to female USB 3.0 adapter to use on the Switch if the console is used on a stand holder setup.

On the Bally Midway upright & cocktail table styled cabinets of the Pac-Man (1980) & Ms. Pac-Man (1981), what type of arcade controls were used (considering that they were both dedicated 4-way games to begin with)? Were they leaf-switch based arcade joysticks and leaf-switch push buttons for the P1 & P2 start buttons?

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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:13 pm 


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PC Engine Fan X! wrote:
On the Bally Midway upright & cocktail table styled cabinets of the Pac-Man (1980) & Ms. Pac-Man (1981), what type of arcade controls were used (considering that they were both dedicated 4-way games to begin with)? Were they leaf-switch based arcade joysticks and leaf-switch push buttons for the P1 & P2 start buttons?

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~


Yes.
The original manual shows leaf-switch buttons and a Wico leaf-switch joystick. Same parts for upright and cocktail cabinets.
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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:38 pm 


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Before, I was really into trying to find the stick of sticks for my cabinets. I have bought and tried almost every brand and model that made sense for shmups. My current choice is a JLF with oversized actuator (I'm using a red aluminum one from Paradise Arcade Shop, haven't gotten around to try my Kowal actuator yet) a stiffer spring and octogate. The build quality of SANWA is superb.

The Seimitsu's LS-56 is decent, the octogate is nice if you like to ride the gate (I know I do), but like all Seimitsu sticks I've tried, the dead zone wiggle cheapens the experience.

The original SANWA JLW was supposed to have been great, but it was discontinued years ago and the alter model I have never clicked with me (bahaha).
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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:36 pm 


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I installed an LS-62-01 in my HRAP4 Kai this morning with the short throw mod (using both spacers provided for extreme shortness) and it's been absolutely revelatory. It's the most precise input device I've ever used and has almost immediately tightened up my game. It has the nuance and accuracy of Seimitsu's other sticks with the near-immediacy of a d-pad or something. I love it - if you favour short-throw sticks and don't mind it being solidly committed to STGs, get one!


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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:26 pm 


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I'm looking to get one of these over-sized actuator mods for the JLFs in my cab. I got used to Seimitsu sticks when playing on my sigma supergun (1cc'd Batrider on Normal) and was planning to install something similar in my Blast but it seem that Seimitsu sticks don't mount as easily as Sanwa's, at least with the built in mounting plate on my 2p panel. From what I can gather these actuator mods are good alternatives.

Does any one know if there's a functional difference between the Kowal and JLF over-sized actuator?

I've never tried an octogate but i do tend to keep the lever engaged even when it's not necessary (is this 'riding the gate'?), so maybe I should give it a try.


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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:06 am 


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scrilla4rella wrote:
Does any one know if there's a functional difference between the Kowal and JLF over-sized actuator?

I've never tried an octogate but i do tend to keep the lever engaged even when it's not necessary (is this 'riding the gate'?), so maybe I should give it a try.


All I can say is that the difference between Paradise Arcade and KOWAL actuators is very small and hard to spot unless you use measuring tools (why go there?).

I have both types installed in my cabinets and bought KOWALS most recently because you can get them in the EU, otherwise I probably would have kept buying PA ones at some point. I suggest you get a few extra springs too along with the octogate, because that can make a huge difference too. Many shmup fans shun the JLF because it's soft spring. I like riding the gate too!
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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:54 pm 


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d0s wrote:
yo who moved this thread about hardware into offtopic, shit says joysticks in the title cmon son


Probably the same guy who first split the discussion about FPGA from the Analogue thread (which was the right call imho) and then put one of the most goddamn technical and interesting hardware thread about FPGAs into Offtopic instead of keeping it in hardware.

And of course, it died in a couple days, just like this one which I had an eye on and I completely missed it until now because I was looking for another thread here and casually saw this.


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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:46 am 



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This baby here.

Image

Joystick is a Seimitsu LS-56-01 (started with a Sanwa Denshi JLF before moving onto a Seimitsu LS-32-01-SC and I eventually found my perfect stick, the LS-56-01 with a square gate - I'm not an octagon guy), while buttons are both Sanwa Denshi OBSF-30 (green/violet is Button 1, blue/yellow is Button 2). The controller is homemade with some help from my father and was originally envisioned as an arcade-quality stick at a budget price for retrogaming computers and consoles (originally supported 1 button before I upgraded it to 2 separate buttons with the cable from a Sega Master System/Mark 3 controller). It's meant to be held so the red ball top is on the left (although it can be opened up and the controls reversed if you wish). The black case is half-metal, half-plastic, and it's 4 years old (and starting to fall apart, so I might need to get a suitable replacement).


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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:17 pm 



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Seems appropriate to post this guys channel in this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/c/ScanlineCity/videos

His he a member here?

Myself I like Namco's first PlayStation stick. They did it right all that time ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:00 am 


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That Scanline City channel is great I’ve watched all his vids, super high production value to boot.

I recently did a video of my modded PC Engine ‘HORI Fighting Stick PC’ (such a weird name) I did the usual and upgraded the parts but I also reconfigured the buttons to something more suitable for 2-button games.

https://youtu.be/rXACtYjTyr8
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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:11 pm 


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What about the restrictor? I have an octogonal restrictor for my JLF in transit.. better than stock for shmups?
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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:24 am 


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I tend to see them as different tools for different jobs, but it could just be a matter of preference, too. I used to think octagonal gates were far better than square ones, and some people find it easier to find the diagonals on them when they're learning to use a stick, but after some practice you won't need to "ride the gate" to find them anyway, and (for me, at least) those eight sides can become almost like speedbumps during some motions. Having said that, the LS-62 has become one of my favourite sticks, and that comes with an octo gate as stock. It's a great stick for performing micro-dodges in shmups, and I definitely don't feel held back by it when doing those. I think the most important thing is having a good understanding of what you're working with and what you can and can't do, which only comes through spending time with it.

(Certain issues tend to be pretty strongly overstated, too. Recently I used an unmodified JLF for a couple of weeks and had no issues with it at all, and that's often spoken of as being an absolutely dire, last-resort choice for shmups. I'd still recommend the Kowal 1mm oversize actuator for it, but it's not as though it's an unusable mess without. There'll always be someone telling you you shouldn't play without [x], [y], [z], but there's no harm in being comfortable with a range of sticks, and obviously if you have access to arcades or friends who are into the same stuff as you, you'll probably need to be!)


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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:44 pm 


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Yeah, a major factor is how comfortable you are with what you're using.

I like octo gates because I like being able to know where each direction is based on feel, but there's a definite advantage to a square gate in a shmup if you're riding the edge to control your movement. In a game where moving diagonally is slower horizontally than moving left or right (most games), you can get a tighter dodge when at the bottom of the screen by holding down while tapping left or right, letting you make more finely tuned adjustments at the bottom of the screen. This is doable on an octo gate too, but mechanically easier to do with a square gate I find.

Octo gates are also handy if you've got a few different games you enjoy, they include. 4-way games that do not accept diagonal inputs. Octo gates are a kind of compromise that make it easier to avoid accidental diagonals than a square gate, so you can swap games around without having to change the restrictor each time.
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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:58 pm 



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I'd suggest to move this to the hardware forum, now that there's some reorganization happening.


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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:13 am 



Joined: 08 Dec 2020
Posts: 2
opt2not wrote:
Please provide proof of Japanese cabinets that used square gate Japanese sticks for early STG’s prior to the late 80’s resurgence. Early Taito, Toaplan, Irem games?



I don't have info on what sticks were used in 1980-1985 era of cabinets and no one would use them now because i'm sure they would feel quite ancient and they must have varied because there was no gold standard at the time. So before 1985 there was no standard joystick for shmups and the shooter scene really exploded right after 84'anyway.

The first standard joystick on Japanese arcade cabinets was the Sanwa JLW and that had a square gate as standard and had circle and octo gates available from the get go.

All Japanese shmup cabinets that moved to modern parts used the JLW until the LS-32 was released in (i believe 1991 Taito Canary cabinet first) and the JLF around the same time.

For example the Nemesis (gradius) cabinet in Japan (released in 1985) used the JLW.
As the JLW came with a square gate as standard that is what most shooters used from the mid 80's unless the arcade operator changed to circular gates. Because the JLW was on most cabinets until the LS-32 and JLF that both also came stock with square gates in early 90's it can be generalized that the square gate was standard for shmups in Japan. Export cabinets are another story.

So in short up to around 1984 shooters were played with all kinds of joysticks, from 85' Sanwa JLW came along and created the classic Japanese joystick and from the turn of the 90's the LS-32 has been the most popular stick in the arcades for shmups but i'm sure many arcades had JLF too just because those came standard on most candy cabs. Most candy cab panels could be ordered with a Sanwa mount or a Seimitsu mount.


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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:14 am 



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jandrogo wrote:
What about the restrictor? I have an octogonal restrictor for my JLF in transit.. better than stock for shmups?


The square gate is the standard on shooters and what videos i've seen developers like Cave, they have square gates on their test cabinets. The logic/genious in the square gate is that you have a free movement to do any motion (free/circular) or use the help of the corners to guide diagonals and also if you press right for example but need to also tap the down direction briefly, with a square gate you can just keep pressing right but tapping straight down or up without any restrictions. If you press a right direction on a circular or an octo gate you have to travel in a circular motion till it hits the down direction.

It's popular to install an octogate because it seems logical because the stick has 8 possible directions but really the square gate is a "gate/guide" and octo and round gates are "restrictors" because they block direct access to microswitches. It's possible to remove the whole gate on an LS-32 for example (to be without any restriction) but that doesn't really benefit anyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:14 am 


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Anyone had trouble with Retro-Bit controllers? Got the Saturn pad for Switch at Xmas, and while it was perfectly useable, there was an annoying creak when pushing right.

Went altogether last night, pushing one of the other direction, it feels like there's some sort of plastic cap pushing the pad back out when it hits a contact, that's gone on the right, so the pad doesn't register and also doesn't return properly. Maybe something and nothing, but I'm not risking them not sending me a replacement if I open it up and check. Fuming, don't think I've every had a piece of hardware fail on me so quickly.
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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:38 am 



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Problem with joysticks is they are mostly console specific.

Someone on this forum built be a Dreamcast modified LS-32 unit and made custom joypad hack adapters for the obvious older consoles.

I have thought about Switch joystick and hopefully that system will get a lot of shooter games to justify it.

For the most part joysticks take up so much room, In Japan videos you can pick most joysticks up for low cost. Foreigners never buy them because they would take up a lump of your suitcase storage.
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 Post subject: Re: Favorite Joysticks?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:31 am 



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Marc wrote:
Anyone had trouble with Retro-Bit controllers? Got the Saturn pad for Switch at Xmas, and while it was perfectly useable, there was an annoying creak when pushing right.

Went altogether last night, pushing one of the other direction, it feels like there's some sort of plastic cap pushing the pad back out when it hits a contact, that's gone on the right, so the pad doesn't register and also doesn't return properly. Maybe something and nothing, but I'm not risking them not sending me a replacement if I open it up and check. Fuming, don't think I've every had a piece of hardware fail on me so quickly.


I also got the BT model to use with my PC and Switch during the christmas break. The d-pad also was bit creaky for me on the right side, but I think the noise stopped after couple hours and no issues after that. For me the pad has been great, I immediately made some PB's, moving from the 8bitdo m30 to this one.

I think you just need to return it, I know it's very annoying. I just had to return the controller from my brand new Xbox Series X, so it happens to all manufacturers.


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