EDIT 2019: Oi Squire I put the old thread name back. Putting this here so future generations will know WTF we were on about! I don't want 'em thinking we had an attack of the brain moths!
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So, while 8-bit stuff tends toward loose interpretation (FC Double Dragon II) if not radical divergence (FC Ninja Ryukenden), and 32-bit/later stuff will usually aim for "arcade close," 16-bit ports* are naturally somewhere between. And that bothers me. ಠ_ಠ It's tough to know at a glance what's still worthwhile, and what just looks good in screenshots!
Please use this thread as a repository for informed judgments on 16-bit ports. Here's one to get us started:
Thunder Fox [MD] A great name for a TV show about a swarthy gentleman doc who bangs all the hawt young interns while solving crimes is the only thing of value here. :[ Depressingly slow, mediocre walk n' stab compared to the AC original's ravenously violent Rolling Thunder/Ninja Warriors hybrid. If you want to play this on console, get Taito Memories II Gekan (NTSCJ PS2) instead. Then crash a jeep into a stack of exploding barrels. Like this:
Spoiler
^ Genesis don't! It should've though.
At the moment, I'd like to know about a few PCE** Taito ports, specifically Don Doko Don and The New Zealand Story. Pls halp! 3:
* "IS ACTUALLY CONVERSION LMAO" Hey STFU! (・｀W´・) Naw, as long as it's an AC game running on home console, port/conversion/whatever is good here.
** "LOL NOOB, PCE is technically 8-bit!" Oh yeah?! JAM IT UP YOUR ASS, SWEET CHEEKS (・｀W´・) No for real, PCE is on-topic for thread purposes.
Last edited by BIL on Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:24 pm, edited 14 times in total.
I'll start out with the obvious that everyone knows and which has already been documented in numerous other threads, since I'm not very knowledgeable about this stuff, and it's the only way to get some stuff to my name in here :3
MegaDrive Daimakaimura
Despite a very noticeable downgrade in the graphics department, this plays almost identical to the arcade original, but feels a tiny bit more lenient in its random patterns, especially on the first stage and some of the bosses.
Playing on "Practice" mode (default on at least the western releases) makes chests and boss checkpoints similar to the easier US arcade version on top of some other changes that makes the game even easier, such as removing the blue obstacle on the first part of stage 2. I'm guessing the "rank" is generally very low on this setting, but due to the random nature of the game it can be difficult to discern the actual difficulty you're playing on. The second loop will remove these crutches and play more like the arcade version.
The other difficulty option "Professional" feels almost like playing the Japanese arcade PCB with shittier graphics. Though there are a few differences, you can easily train for the arcade version by playing the home port - a bit of a rarity in the 16 bit generation.
Music is very similar to arcade, and which sounds better might actually be a question of taste. In my opinion the best version of the soundtrack is the SuperGrafx port.
MegaDrive Daimakaimura I got into very late. I actually completed the SFC chou version before that. I like them both but yes, the MD version is more like the arcade. I love playing these games and I find myself every couple of years or so getting really hardcore into playing it, play it constantly for a few days for hours then not play it.
I like the sound on the MD version too, SFC is very nice but it is not as 'raw' to me. It is a mean game all the same
Please delete all forum posts referring to SFC Chohmakaimura as a "version" of Daimakaimura, rather than the straight up sequel it is. I still have no idea why people see it as this, and we don't need to provide further support to this kind of misinformation.
It's the equivalent of considering a Symphony of the Night to be a console port of Haunted Castle.
Check here and then here for my own comparisons between Daimakaimura and its SFC sequel.
Sumez wrote:Please delete all forum posts referring to SFC Chohmakaimura as a "version" of Daimakaimura, rather than the straight up sequel it is. I still have no idea why people see it as this, and we don't need to provide further support to this kind of misinformation.
It's the equivalent of considering a Symphony of the Night to be a console port of Haunted Castle.
Check here and then here for my own comparisons between Daimakaimura and its SFC sequel.
So long as it has Arthur running around in his birthday suit we are all good
i've played (and beaten) both versions of thunderfox, but not enjoyed either, really. i did slightly prefer the arcade version for its lousy shmup stages, though. i do agree that they are notably different.
everyone always talks up pce r-type, but imo it is not nearly as good as arcade. worse music on both huey and cd, and some minor things that make it a little more annoying to deal with. also the color and slight art changes really bug me - r-type is a gorgeous game and this conversion doesn't quite capture that. for a game as technical as r-type, these really tiny changes get to me. i do like the additional boss, tho. all-in-all, if you gotta play console r-type, play the sms version with fm synth mod, it has more of a unique personality and that music rules.
~Imagination and memory are but one thing, which for diverse considerations have diverse names~ | ~*~*~*~*~*~* If there's a place that I could be ~ Then I'd be another memory*~*~*~*~*~*~
I'm pretty sure the hitboxes are just as silly on arcade, at least to my own experience. This is mostly noticeable with the rock turtles on the second stage, but the good news is that, as that Twitter post points out, it mostly works in the player's favor.
Sumez wrote:Please delete all forum posts referring to SFC Chohmakaimura as a "version" of Daimakaimura, rather than the straight up sequel it is. I still have no idea why people see it as this, and we don't need to provide further support to this kind of misinformation.
It's the equivalent of considering a Symphony of the Night to be a console port of Haunted Castle.
Check here and then here for my own comparisons between Daimakaimura and its SFC sequel.
I've always thought of them as two completely different games. One having a double-jump mechanic while the other lets you fire vertically makes them both distinct as hell IMO.
Me too. I wanted to de-emphasise "(im)perfection" a little, though, in favour of the slightly more intangible. PCE Ninja Spirit is significantly downsized yet preserves the AC's lunar tension superbly, still easily ranking among the finest console sidescrollers. MD Senjou no Okami II lacks co-op, but even with the arcade-perfect PS1 port around, I'd argue it's worthy purely for the extensive Original Mode.
Then there's stuff like MD Kyuukyoku Tiger, dubious from an accuracy standpoint but compelling to some for that very reason (CRASH ZOOM), and PCE Salamander, which deliberately reworks the PCB's content to considerable acclaim from many here.
OTOH, while the MD ports were valiant efforts, Golden Axe and Strider's respective PCE-based versions are good for little more than kusoge tourism nowadays. D:
Fortunately, the spirit of the Hell Brawl will live on in the subject line of Sumez's first post. ;3
This thread reminds me that I'm fairly close to a full set of 16-bit shmup/arcade clears which means that I could create a topic for that. I'm currently missing Atomic Robo-Kid, Super Real Darwin, Task Force Harrier and Viewpoint (and Senjou no Ookami II if we count that one), everything else is finished. The problem is that I really, really, really hate Super Real Darwin and I'm also incredibly bad at Viewpoint which has the potential to delay the thread almost ad infinitum. I have played enough of all these to make a qualified statement/comparison I would say, are you guys interested in such a comprehensive thread? Would probably take a few days since there are dozens of games to examine.
With you being our #1 man in the field of 16-bit port archaeology, your writings will forever have a grateful audience with me and the other aficionados/diehards/lunatics around here. :3
Perikles wrote:The problem is that I really, really, really hate Super Real Darwin and I'm also incredibly bad at Viewpoint which has the potential to delay the thread almost ad infinitum
FWIW, I consider the rare occasion of your not finishing a port a pretty incisive statement in itself. Game's probably either unfathomably hard, unconscionably shitty, or both.
Do Lynx games count? It has solid ports of Pac Land, Toki, and some Atari Games arcade games like Roadblasters, KLAX, Paperboy, Xenophobe, Stun Runner, and Rampart. Also does some nice tricks that most consoles at the time weren't able to do. Stun Runner is especially impressive.
The Genesis/MD port of Rolling Thunder 2 is very nice. It took a bit of the graphical hit, but the gameplay is intact and it has two new levels, as well as new weapons to go with the new levels.
Perikles wrote:The problem is that I really, really, really hate Super Real Darwin and I'm also incredibly bad at Viewpoint which has the potential to delay the thread almost ad infinitum
FWIW, I consider the rare occasion of your not finishing a port a pretty incisive statement in itself. Game's probably either unfathomably hard, unconscionably shitty, or both.
Oh, I've cleared every port, of course, I was talking about the arcade games, I wanted to finish both before creating the list (ideal foundation for a comparison and all that). I would definitely not speak about the port in question without having finished it, my ethos strictly interdicts that. Since I've just finished Task Force Harrier, too, I'm only missing three arcade games to complement the already finished set of 16-bit ports, I worded that poorly. I'll try to add Atomic Robo-Kid to that pile as well, shouldn't be a major hurdle. Thread will hopefully be ready in a few days.
Ah, right! I see... comprehensive PCB->port comparisons via 1CCs of both sets. An impressive undertaking. That will undoubtedly be another great read.
I should clarify - for the purposes of this thread, it's totally okay to rate ports entirely on their own merits, even if you've not played the AC games much/at all. Technical comparisons are of course valuable, but how this stuff plays is the primary concern. On that note, I can say that The Ninja Warriors (Mega CD) is pretty enjoyable up to the last stage, where it abruptly begins spawning midbosses (and their fists) directly into the player's face at the screen edge. I'm guessing that's a result of the greatly chopped-down aspect ratio, having not played the AC version that far... but regardless, it was bad enough to immediately turn me off after a positive first impression.
I may need to refresh my memory in Ootake, but from what I remember from the HuCard...
The New Zealand Story (PC Engine)
The game is based off of the Japan (New) rom (EDIT: Actually, New Zealand Story's PCE port is based on the Japan (Old) rom, after further testing), having an identical or close approximation of that version's levels. This version retains the warps that allow you to zip around the stages and skip chunks of the game (or loop back around if that is your thing). From what I've read, it omits the heaven stages (special stages that allow you to cheat death if you die in a very specific fashion). I have never triggered the ultra-hard Heaven stages in the arcade version, so I don't know if that is a big loss outside of the aesthetic pleasure of such a weird feature. The intro is missing and replaced with a text scrawl, which is a shame, but otherwise the graphics seem spot on.
Controlling Tiki on foot is about as well as you can expect from the arcade - even that useless flutter-trick by mashing the jump button is here. Enemies seem about as prevalent or a little bit less in this version compared to the arcade (I seem to recall tentacled water monsters being scaled down). For the most part, figuring out how to make your way through the levels with the warps works both in MAME and on the PCE. While the screen size and resolution make for what seems like closer quarters when fighting bosses, I did not sense a huge difference in difficulty. Platforming on foot is still plenty tough with the huge labyrinthine levels.
Two major problems bring this port down: the music/SFX and the air-handling. Like many Taito HuCards,* the music sounds pretty weak and doesn't take advantage of the soundchip in a way that other developers, like Hudson, were able to do. That can be forgivable, but the ultra-piercing sound effects are not. Your default bow shot, which you will be hearing for the majority of the game, is high-pitched, loud, and shrill, and after a few minutes you'll wish you could mute the SFX entirely. The weapons sound find (though I remember the laser being a little annoying), but the arrow sound being so bad is truly head-scratching, given its ubiquitous use in the game itself.
The air-handling was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. It lacks the smooth inertia-based movement of the arcade original, which allowed you to deftly and sometimes gracefully sail through the stages with light taps or pressure to the jump button. Here, a default tap in any direction locks you into a short movement forward, which more or less destroys the ability to inch yourself around with pixel-perfect precision. Thus, this makes many areas of the stages difficult where they would not originally be, unless you are lucky enough to find a joystick powerup to restore direct control over your craft. This is most noticeable in fast crafts such as the inflatable goose, which was a godsend in the arcade, whereas here it might as well be a death-sentence.
I could have handled the bad sound mixing, but the loss of aerial control was too much for me, so I had to pass on the HuCard. It really was a shame since I felt that the PC Engine was more than capable of handling the game.
Verdict: Sadly Skip. While there are several core elements faithfully gathered here, I was just too frustrated by the lack of control over my balloons to have fun. And on top of that I was going mad from the shrill sound effects.
The Mega Drive port is far from perfect (no warps! Which is such a big part of the TNZS experience!), but it at least controls correctly.
*actually, I should take that back, because there a number of great-sounding Taito cards: Kiki KaiKai, Don Doko Don, Gokuraku Chuka Taisen, and Mizubaku Daiboken stand out. There are some very underwhelming HuCards in terms of sound, like Ninja Warriors and Cadash, and the outright terrible, like Rastan 2 and New Zealand Story (though the latter isn't -quite- as awful as I remember after emulating it; still bad though!).
Last edited by EmperorIng on Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Excellent, thanks. I have the MD port, but I'm never averse to doubling/tripling/Nthing up when others are done well enough (Raiden, Kyuukyokyu Tiger and Salamander have a couple excellent, unique ports apiece on MD/PCE, or FC/PCE in the last's case). I'm definitely no completionist, though... no matter how beloved a game or console might be, if a port's got issues I'm staying away (Micronics' pitiful SFC Raiden being an ever-handy example).
I agree on the air handling, but the PCE NZS port also suffers from input eating slowdown when many enemies are on screen. I wasn't fond of the music for that version either. I like what I played of the NES NZS port, despite it not being developed in Japan, though it doesn't seem to be as difficult as the arcade. The music is that version is especially good.
PCE version's music alone is enough for me to skip it. It's painful
Is it really based on the "new" arcade romset though? From what I've seen of the PCE version, it starts with the same stage as the classic "old", that we also know from every other port of the game.
I actually never even heard of the "new" version until I tried it at a friend who has that version, just last year. I thought it was a hack at first, considering some of the stages it starts out with are much harder than even many of the game's later stages, most notably lacking the iconic first stage which eases you into the game slowly. Aside from a single video on YouTube that explains the various different releases pretty well, there's an absurd lack of information on them on the internet.
Wow, I didn't think there would already be a thread for this, or that it would lead to the shmup thread.
F-1 Dream is a neat little Capcom game, and a neat little PCE version with more elaborate single player. I get the feeling at least some of the port was inspired by Final Lap Twin, which came out just a few months before. There's probably a lot of utility in describing things like Super Monaco GP, F1 Grand Prix, etc.
Can anyone tell me about Monster Lair? Everyone talks about the various ports of the Monster World games, but no one ever talks about Lair. This is another one of those games with high-profile PCE and MD ports, in this case a PCECD port.
I actually own both ports of that, but I never played either. Judging by immediate impressions, the PCE version looks much nicer. The MegaDrive version's redrawn sprites aren't bad, but the original ones just look much better. Of course, that says nothing about how they play. If no one else chimes in, maybe I'll spend some time with them both soon.
Sumez wrote:Please delete all forum posts referring to SFC Chohmakaimura as a "version" of Daimakaimura, rather than the straight up sequel it is. I still have no idea why people see it as this, and we don't need to provide further support to this kind of misinformation.
It's baffling to me too. Literally every stage and boss is different in the two games.
RegalSin wrote:You can't even drive across the country Naked anymore
StarBlade (Mega CD) Always liked the blood-simple Namco rail shooter, with its relentless pace and ageless 60fps polygon spacewar. And in recent years, I've found a soft spot for primordial console 3D. So, kinda wanted to check this out.
While sounding like an utterly barbaric port on paper - the background is streaming FMV, with all objects rendered as bare wireframes, running at a framerate reminiscent of StarFox - this is surprisingly smooth and playable with the Sega mouse. At least until the end of the second mission, where it really starts struggling to keep things together. Or maybe it's me that's struggling? Intensity is very close to the arcade, and there's the rub. I can reliably clear the arcade perfect (?) port included with Tekken 5, but can barely make it a minute into the third and final mission here - the opening barrages are every bit as brutal, and the requisite smooth response simply isn't there. I'm not sure how interested the port team were in rebalancing this much choppier iteration for one-coin play, and the AC game's already a pretty tight squeeze. Need more time, but tbh I'd rather just play the Tekken 5 version.
Still, worth a look if you share my aforementioned afflictions for the game and console era. Sound effects deserve mention, the bassy explosions are brutally satisfying.
The 3DO port of StarBlade is surprisingly good, all things considered (!). I think the original mode is arcade perfect, down to the flat-shaded polygon enemies and environments, and it has the updated mode that also shows up in the PS1 StarBlade Alpha. The only problem is that the sluggish 3DO controller struggles to keep up with zipping the cursor all over the screen - I doubt any controller really does the arcade justice. It becomes too hard for a 1CC (though I've cleared it with the 3 credits it allots you); I usually die at the final defense wall before landing on planet RED EYE. There are codes for extra credits and rapid fire, the latter which makes the game much, much easier by dint of drastically shortening the lives of every enemy on screen (controller problems remain). I would love for it to be compatible with the mouse; I am not sure if the 3DO flightstick is compatible with StarBlade either.
I think technically speaking the PS1 port/remake is the best of the bunch (never played it or the Tekken version), but I'd probably put the 3DO port at second, judging all the versions side-by-side.
I didn't think I'd like "cursor point-n-shoot" shooters, but StarBlade is surprisingly engaging. I think the lack of music really sells it (aside from the tense final boss theme and climactic ending theme) - the ambient sound design in this game is superb.
The Tekken 5 StarBlade port is really excellent - I don't play fighters much at all, bought it specifically for that. 60fps, seemingly 1:1 accurate, analogue and mouse support. I'd like to pick up Starblade Alpha (PS1) sometime - the lower framerate's a definite knock (the AC's flat poly fluidity is immortal), but it seems to perform fine otherwise, the textured mode looks cool, and it has mouse support. I gotta have the one-handed action!
Game itself surprised me too - I only got to play it relatively recently and ho ho hoooly shit, that third mission ain't no Willy Beamish pointy click! Ain't a Dragon's Lair rote regurgitator either! Rockets and lasers be flying at my face! Sensibly shoot-downable though. Enemy Flagship Commander is one bad "IRU B BACK" muhfucka, Black Heart/DUOSS-style. Sort of game I could understand being written off as gimmicky, at a glance, but the tight pacing and crisp shooting acquit it more than sufficiently. Real cinematic panache too - the saving of BGM until the final showdown is indeed a great touch.
BIL wrote:The Tekken 5 StarBlade port is really excellent - I don't play fighters much at all, bought it specifically for that. 60fps, seemingly 1:1 accurate, analogue and mouse support. I'd like to pick up Starblade Alpha (PS1) sometime - the lower framerate's a definite knock (the AC's flat poly fluidity is immortal), but it seems to perform fine otherwise, the textured mode looks cool, and it has mouse support. I gotta have the one-handed action!
Game itself surprised me too - I only got to play it relatively recently and ho ho hoooly shit, that third mission ain't no Willy Beamish pointy click! Ain't a Dragon's Lair rote regurgitator either! Rockets and lasers be flying at my face! Sensibly shoot-downable though. Enemy Flagship Commander is one bad "IRU B BACK" muhfucka, Black Heart/DUOSS-style. Sort of game I could understand being written off as gimmicky, at a glance, but the tight pacing and crisp shooting acquit it more than sufficiently. Real cinematic panache too - the saving of BGM until the final showdown is indeed a great touch.
Just to sidetrack a sec, it appears that the PS2 version contains Tekken 1,2,3 & Starblade - are these still available on the PS3 version?
Not enough 16-bit arcade port reviews in this thread.
Knights of the Round
As good as the Super Famicom port appears to be here - and it's not bad at first glance - it is missing quite a lot of graphical detail. There are background elements regularly stripped out and animation frames have taken a hit all round. Otherwise it looks fairly robust and a fair approximation of the arcade.
Sadly it's actually poor approximation of the arcade.
Although the levelling system works well enough and you can actually make proper 1CC progress for a while, Capcom scuppered the effort around halfway through the game where they omitted a horse from the proceedings. In the arcade game this horse is captured early on, and tacticians use it throughout the stage and as a method for defeating the boss. Without the horse the boss is simply a complete mess who summarily ruins you each time because... well because you don't have the horse.
There are a lot of similar cutbacks here and there, including reduced sprites on screen etc., but otherwise it would have been a fairly fun and doable game if you didn't get all your lives snipped out during the aforementioned stage.
On last inspection, I still hadn't found any examples of a Super Famicom default difficult 1CC of the game, which left me wondering as to whether the fuck-up on the castle stage and the vanishing horse left others at a loss too.
Marc wrote:Just to sidetrack a sec, it appears that the PS2 version contains Tekken 1,2,3 & Starblade - are these still available on the PS3 version?
By PS3 version, do you mean the more recent port of Dark Resurrection? (sorry, no idea if the vanilla PS2 T5 is on PSN too). Assuming you mean DR, from this GameFAQs thread, it seems to lack the PS2 content unfortunately.
Note that the PS2 bonus games (Tekken 1-3 & StarBlade) are straight arcade ports - so don't ditch any PS1 versions you own, if you like their extra content!
Skykid wrote:Not enough 16-bit arcade port reviews in this thread.
Knights of the Round
As good as the Super Famicom port appears to be here - and it's not bad at first glance - it is missing quite a lot of graphical detail. There are background elements regularly stripped out and animation frames have taken a hit all round. Otherwise it looks fairly robust and a fair approximation of the arcade.
Sadly it's actually poor approximation of the arcade.
Although the levelling system works well enough and you can actually make proper 1CC progress for a while, Capcom scuppered the effort around halfway through the game where they omitted a horse from the proceedings. In the arcade game this horse is captured early on, and tacticians use it throughout the stage and as a method for defeating the boss. Without the horse the boss is simply a complete mess who summarily ruins you each time because... well because you don't have the horse.
There are a lot of similar cutbacks here and there, including reduced sprites on screen etc., but otherwise it would have been a fairly fun and doable game if you didn't get all your lives snipped out during the aforementioned stage.
On last inspection, I still hadn't found any examples of a Super Famicom default difficult 1CC of the game, which left me wondering as to whether the fuck-up on the castle stage and the vanishing horse left others at a loss too.
Cool review
Have you played the SFC King Of Dragons? How is it?
I really like how that port looks and sound (and yes I know it's quite different from the AC).
If the game is really fun, then I might pick it up regardless if it's arcade accurate or not. The small-ish window doesn't bother me.
Also the number of enemies on screens seems very decent, often there are 4 and there sometimes are 5 and even 6 ones at the same time! that is pretty nice
Putting this here so future generations will know WTF we were on about! I don't want 'em thinking we had an attack of the brain moths!
I wanted to de-emphasise "(im)perfection" a little, though, in favour of the slightly more intangible. PCE Ninja Spirit is significantly downsized yet preserves the AC's lunar tension superbly, still easily ranking among the finest console sidescrollers. MD Senjou no Okami II lacks co-op, but even with the arcade-perfect PS1 port around, I'd argue it's worthy purely for the extensive Original Mode.
That will undoubtedly be another great read. 
Sensibly shoot-downable though. 
