From Software 'n such

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Sumez
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

No love for Kuri Kuri Mix?
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Air Master Burst
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Air Master Burst »

Sumez wrote:No love for Kuri Kuri Mix?
Nah it's pretty good, I just honestly forgot it had a DS port. Not sure I'd trust the DS control scheme for a game like that, though, unless it has online play. Knights in the Nightmare and The World Ends With You both gave me fits.
King's Field IV is the best Souls game.
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Blinge
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Air Master Burst wrote:I mean they're all just KingsFieldlikes at the end of the day.
as a big KF fan lemme tell ya:
that's a dumb take.
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Air Master Burst
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Air Master Burst »

Blinge wrote:
Air Master Burst wrote:I mean they're all just KingsFieldlikes at the end of the day.
as a big KF fan lemme tell ya:
that's a dumb take.
Except the perspective it's pretty much the same thing. Explore a doomed foggy interconnected realm while leveling up, figuring out mysterious obscure lore indirectly through context, and dying a lot to stupid shit. Souls just replaced endless circle strafing with a juiced up version of Zelda 64s combat.

Kings Field 4 is so Souls you can taste it.

Or perhaps more accurately, Dark Souls is so King's Field you can taste it.
King's Field IV is the best Souls game.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

KFs story is a lot more straight forward and most of it is given to the player straight up.

obviously there's a large amount of shared DNA but your point is some reddit tier " i'msmart " you can only reach by reducing everything down to the point where it's useless.

trying to downplay the importance of combat changes is almost intellectual dishonesty.

If you actually remember the experience of playing OoT's combat, that point becomes laughable.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Air Master Burst »

Zelda 64's combat essentially boils down to shield blocking, dodge rolling, and occasional item use; all while z-targeting single enemies and free-aim slashing crowds.

Souls combat is the same basic gameplay loop. They refined the hell out of it, and added some cool stuff like parries and backstabs, but the biggest change was adding the stamina and level-up system that's almost directly lifted from King's Field.
Blinge wrote:obviously there's a large amount of shared DNA but your point is some reddit tier " i'msmart " you can only reach by reducing everything down to the point where it's useless.
I mean, the original comment you were responding to was pretty obviously a joke, but I still think King's Field 4 does all the stuff I love about Souls games better than any of the Souls games do.
King's Field IV is the best Souls game.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

dodge rolling just isnt a thing in zeldo. it doesn't stop you taking hits. it has no iframes.

oh people free aim in zeldo? free aiming sucks so bad in zeldo I never did it.
It's viable in soulz, if not better a lot of the time.
Zeldo is much more dependant on item use.
Also - this implies shields aren't entirely optional and skipped by a decent proportion of players in souls, due to the game allowing differences in playstyle.
Souls combat is the same basic gameplay loop. They refined the hell out of it, and added some cool stuff like parries and backstabs, but the biggest change was adding the stamina and level-up system that's almost directly lifted from King's Field.
That's not what a gameplay loop is.

The levelling up system in King's field.. is you gain a level instantly after you've killed enough enemies. all your stats rise across the board.
Your physical or magic increases independantly as you deal damage. (and in 3 that's broken down further into individual elements).

In souls the exp is currency (souls). you have to stay alive long enough to retain said currency then spend it in designated places, choosing the individual stats you want to raise.
How the fuck is that lifted from KF :lol: It's different.

Stamina isn't lifted from KF either, doesn't function the same way. In KF you're never incapable of taking an action. Your swing will just do less damage/stagger.


I thought it wasn't a joke because I don't like most of your posts.
If you're defending your point so hard maybe it wasn't so much of a joke, either.
Last edited by Blinge on Tue May 09, 2023 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Air Master Burst
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Air Master Burst »

The first time I played Demon's Souls, my initial impression was "oh cool, it's like King's Field with Zelda combat!" I don't think that would be an inaccurate way to describe Souls to someone who's only played King's Field and Zelda.
Blinge wrote: I thought it wasn't a joke because I don't like most of your posts.
If you're defending your point so hard maybe it wasn't so much of a joke, either.
Oh yeah, you're that guy who takes these discussions way too seriously. So it is actually possible to disagree with someone's point of view without being unpleasant about it; but if that's not your jam, maybe just stop engaging me at all?
King's Field IV is the best Souls game.
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Sumez
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

As much as I'd love From to make a new KF rather than a new Souls, let's be real - From of today making "a new KF style game" would be nearly identical to them making "a new Souls style game".
I mean sure there's a difference in how the game treats exp or whatever if you think that matters, and obviously there's the camera perspective - but the core of the difference between the two is a much less tangible tone and feeling that's extremely hard to replicate. Dark Souls 2 had a hint of it though.
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Blinge
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Nice pivot, air master bust.

As an overly simple way to try and explain Souls to a total newb, yes the zelda commment had merit.
For the target system only. (But i shudder to think how many 3rd person games with lock-on can then be called zelda clones in airmaster world).

but in a place where people mostly know their shit? It doesn’t fly.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sima Tuna »

Sumez wrote:As much as I'd love From to make a new KF rather than a new Souls, let's be real - From of today making "a new KF style game" would be nearly identical to them making "a new Souls style game".
I mean sure there's a difference in how the game treats exp or whatever if you think that matters, and obviously there's the camera perspective - but the core of the difference between the two is a much less tangible tone and feeling that's extremely hard to replicate. Dark Souls 2 had a hint of it though.
I doubt a new King's Field would be able to translate the extreme slowness of games like King's Field VIII. That crawling pace and deliberately torpid swing arc wouldn't fly with a modern audience.
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Air Master Burst
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Air Master Burst »

Sumez wrote:As much as I'd love From to make a new KF rather than a new Souls, let's be real - From of today making "a new KF style game" would be nearly identical to them making "a new Souls style game".
I mean sure there's a difference in how the game treats exp or whatever if you think that matters, and obviously there's the camera perspective - but the core of the difference between the two is a much less tangible tone and feeling that's extremely hard to replicate. Dark Souls 2 had a hint of it though.
This is pretty much the point I was trying to make. (edited to remove needless shit-stirring)
Sima Tuna wrote:I doubt a new King's Field would be able to translate the extreme slowness of games like King's Field VIII. That crawling pace and deliberately torpid swing arc wouldn't fly with a modern audience.
If you set PCSX2 to about 150-200% speed King's Field 4 suddenly becomes pretty playable even by modern standards.
King's Field IV is the best Souls game.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Mortificator »

It's only at the surface level that King's Field and Dark Souls look alike, and at the surface level a lot of games do. "Explore connected realm with minimalist lore while leveling and dying," that's Wizardry and a hundred other games.

The "dying" part actually ISN'T King's Field. The troll pitfall at the beginning of The Ancient City isn't representative of the whole thing, the player's rarely in peril of a game over. Which is sensible because dying in KF is a hard break, you reload your save and it's like nothing leading up to your demise happened. Wizardry and DS put dealing with death within the gameplay loop and make body recovery a pillar.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

I think Zelda is also a reasonable way to put it, but my impression is that the Souls games are more classical Japanese action RPGs (such as From has been making for a long time) but now structured around the form of Monster Hunter-styled combat. Zelda only really enters the equation in that most 3D melee-based action games are descended from Ocarina of Time, and also because of course Souls shares a lot of similarities with the first few Zelda games due to both being more exploratory action RPGs.
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Air Master Burst
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Air Master Burst »

Mortificator wrote:It's only at the surface level that King's Field and Dark Souls look alike, and at the surface level a lot of games do. "Explore connected realm with minimalist lore while leveling and dying," that's Wizardry and a hundred other games.
Wizardry and DS put dealing with death within the gameplay loop and make body recovery a pillar.
Wizardry is party- and turn-based, which is a different beast entirely, and "minimal lore" is pretty disingenuous for Wizardry 6-8 since those are one giant-ass epic quest with branching stories and multiple endings and everything. I wouldn't even really call the lore in Souls minimalist at all; there's a whole bunch of it, it's just intentionally obscure. As far as body recovery, well, Souls lets you recover your own body, but there's no real penalty for failing to do so. Wizardry requires a different party member to retrieve it and bring it back for resurrection (which is not guaranteed) or else it's permadeath for that character; you can't just grab your own body and keep going like nothing happened.
Mortificator wrote:The "dying" part actually ISN'T King's Field. The troll pitfall at the beginning of The Ancient City isn't representative of the whole thing, the player's rarely in peril of a game over. Which is sensible because dying in KF is a hard break, you reload your save and it's like nothing leading up to your demise happened.
The earlier KF games had a few bullshit insta-kills too (and Shadow Tower REALLY loved them), but they're not hard games once you figure out how the combat works (circle strafing). I have a theory that if Dark Souls forced you to play as methodically as KF then players wouldn't die nearly as often.
King's Field IV is the best Souls game.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

so - If it was a different game it'd be different.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

Blinge wrote:so - If it was a different game it'd be different.
Groundbreaking takes on shmups dot org.

I see I "missed" another difficulty discussion as well. Shame really.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sima Tuna »

Dark Souls is the King's Field of Zelda's Shadow Tower Barbie Horse Adventures.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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Horses?
Now that I can get behind
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Re: From Software 'n such

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It's hard to ride a horse standing behind it.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Lander »

Prediction: The next From game will continue the tradition of vaguely backhanded nicknames for the player. And bonfires.

I'll be back to claim my low-hanging nostradamus points whenever it comes out.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by XoPachi »

Staring at my copy of 3D Dot Game Heroes praying to whoever-the-fuck that it gets a port.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

3D Dot Game Heroes doesn't need a port, it needs a sequel. Or a whole series.

What are the devs doing nowadays anyway? Seems they made Bravely Second.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Lander »

New Shadow Man got announced, starring the older melee-focused incarnation Jack Boniface. No gameplay yet, but plenty of blurb.

Whip out your Fromsoft bingo cards, folks, it's going to be Soul Reaver Souls.
Sumez wrote:What are the devs doing nowadays anyway? Seems they made Bravely Second.
I've heard recent rumblings of a Bravely Default remaster, so perhaps that if it's not being handed off to a specialized studio.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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Lander wrote: Whip out your Fromsoft bingo cards, folks, it's going to be Soul Reaver Souls.
Sounds great to me!
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Lander wrote:I'll be back to claim my low-hanging nostradamus points whenever it comes out.
:lol:
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Lander »

Sumez wrote:Sounds great to me!
Could well be a winner if they do it right, though I'm given pause by the text touting ten-a-penny RPG Lite systems over any mention of the original game's strengths.

Granted, that could be down to licensing since this is the Valiant version of the IP rather than the Acclaim one. I just hope we get a proper orthogonally-designed search action game rather than a common-or-garden Souls clone with a dimension gimmick.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Have we spoken about the cringefest that is any game journo interviewing From/Miyazaki about Armored core?

the guys wanna talk about the mech game and ign nerds constantly try to bring the topic back to Souls.
It's borderline disrespectful.

anyway -
Elden Snooze continues.
I don't really understand how i've racked up 190 hours playtime and I'm not finished still.
I think i'm nearly there but i'm exploring some cursed as AF blizzard place.. aiming for the Haligtree.

I did a bad, and something caught on fire.
but that's neither here nor there.

That whole town in the evergaol with the invisible Black-Knife Assassins, and snipers?
Jesus.. I loved it hahahahah.

I don't know how some of you sick fucks finished the game so quickly. I've spoken to people who claim to have got all the trophies within 2 weeks of its release.

I wasted a lot of time doing an exhaustive exploration of Limgrave, Caelid and Liurnia including every copypasta dungeon... I'm not doing that anymore, but I still find myself meandering a lot.

edit: rofl I just noticed Assmaster's sig. :lol:
intended to trigger me forevermore?
bravo, good meme.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Austin »

Blinge wrote:I don't know how some of you sick fucks finished the game so quickly.
When it released, it was about all I did outside of work for about a month straight. :lol:
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Blinge wrote:Have we spoken about the cringefest that is any game journo interviewing From/Miyazaki about Armored core?

the guys wanna talk about the mech game and ign nerds constantly try to bring the topic back to Souls.
It's borderline disrespectful.
Poor guy has a new project and they can't be bothered to give it the time of day? Damn. :/
edit: rofl I just noticed Assmaster's sig. :lol:
intended to trigger me forevermore?
bravo, good meme.
lol it's been like that for 3 weeks at least :3
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