From Software 'n such

[Volteccer_Jack]

Elden Ring is a game designed to waste your time. I honestly loathe it.

It's like playing Bloodborne, except instead of having a clearly marked Chalice Dungeon Spot where you can go when you want to explore side content, instead you just have totally unmarked Chalice Dungeons littered every five feet of the main game, with the player having no idea which ones contain rewards and which are completely pointless, or even which path will allow them to progress the main story.

If you removed everything from Elden Ring except the "legacy dungeons" it would be a great game, those areas are legitimately a ton of fun. The only problem is that they are 1% of the content. And if you want that side content then Bloodborne wins again, because in that game you can procedurally generate a near-infinite amount of content if you so desire.

[ryu]

Hm problem ain't the game. it's me.

Nah it's the game. Of course you'd want to check everything. You might be missing out on a dungeon that's actually cool. Lore pieces required to make sense of the story. Items you absolutely need to make sure the build you want to play works out. Etc. etc.
At the same time the sameish content gets old fast. Most items you come across are of little to use to you. So you get burned out, thinking that you're wasting your time.

Honestly the open world meme just sucks for traditional action or adventure games. It makes sense in Minecraft and that's about it.

Still Elden Ring has a lot to it that makes it worth holding out and playing through properly just once. But afterwards one is better off replaying any of the former Soulslike games instead of going for another round of ER.

[Stevens]

Yeah not you B. Game massively over stays its welcome. Should have been shorter.

As soon as I finished I played Sekiro again.

[Sumez]

It's like playing Bloodborne, except instead of having a clearly marked Chalice Dungeon Spot where you can go when you want to explore side content, instead you just have totally unmarked Chalice Dungeons littered every five feet of the main game, with the player having no idea which ones contain rewards and which are completely pointless, or even which path will allow them to progress the main story.

If you want to have fun with Elden Ring, you don't explore every single "chalice dungeon" you come across. You take the occasional one just to see what it has going on, but focus on the things you like, and then deal with the remaining stuff once you are done with everything else if you need to scratch that completionist itch.
Saying the legacy dungeons is "1% of the game" is only true if you measure that in ground area - in terms of engaging content, they probably make up nearly half the game, so even if you don't like the open world potions much, it's perfectly easy to just judge Elden Ring on the legacy dungeon content.

As for the "chalice dungeons", they are still better than the randomly generated ones in Bloodborne, given a surprising amount of them actually have some unique puzzles or twists to them, despite featuring a lot of copy-pasted rooms. They absolutely pale in comparison to the full-on Souls-style dungeons, but they definitely have more to offer than procedural content, too.

[Blinge]

Birru blew my load mind about the chalice dungeons actually.. in that.. they're actually fun to just keep smashing through as a high level character.

I don't understand the hate chalices get now.. they're a great way to extend the BB action.

[ryu]

I don't understand the hate chalices get now.. they're a great way to extend the BB action.

People didn't understand that you could stretch them out throughout multiple NG+ runs and got burned out on them playing them all in one go

[Lander]

If you want to have fun with Elden Ring, you don't explore every single "chalice dungeon" you come across. You take the occasional one just to see what it has going on, but focus on the things you like, and then deal with the remaining stuff once you are done with everything else if you need to scratch that completionist itch.

It becomes less of an issue after the first run, since you can use a guide to hunt down just what you need for your build, then mainline for the rest of the game. In that sense it's nice compared to the regular structure since gear is less progress-gated, but the cost paid in time spent staring at Torrent's butt is considerable nonetheless.

I don't understand the hate chalices get now.. they're a great way to extend the BB action.

All down to expectations, I think. The regular Souls structure is so loved for its distinct environments that templatey rogue dungeons don't scratch the same itch (despite buoying the same great gameplay) and thus are maligned by arguably unfair contrast to the main content. You have to go in wanting a crawl rather than simply wanting more.

And perhaps in part due to perceived effort; i.e. "I'd take another designed main game area over this easy-to-produce modular fare".

On a subjective note, I like to see sky when I'm adventuring, or at least the suggestion of an outdoor environment. Caves caves caves always ends up feeling overly oppressive unless I'm going in expecting it, ex. with something like Legend of Grimrock or older dungeon crawls that are interior-only due to tech limitations.

[BIL]

Ah man, max-loop BB Chalices were my mahfuckin gamer crack for basically all Q3 last year. Ungodly bullseye sweet-spot of deadly and relaxing. Was still seeing weird shit after god knows how long, came across PTHUMIE GRAMPS chilling in a raised garden. Have yet to see my #1 want, a BIG SPIDEY in the wild. Fuck me, the bugger is bad for my arachnophobia!

Became very fond of VILEBLOOD_DRIFTER LEO (he's Crowy without the head-exploding BLD damage) and BONE_ASH_HUNTER CARLA, and bazooka-crazed QUEENKILLA - who is clearly rocking an Infinite Ammo Bandanna under his cone - plus nameless CHURCH PROSPECTOR... particularly those occasions where I ran into all four simultaneously.

BUTA-CHAN may yet decide this war...

Spoiler

I got so many clips to edit up sometime, Jesus there's not enough hours in the day m8s

On a subjective note, I like to see sky when I'm adventuring, or at least the suggestion of an outdoor environment. Caves caves caves always ends up feeling overly oppressive unless I'm going in expecting it, ex. with something like Legend of Grimrock or older dungeon crawls that are interior-only due to tech limitations.

Same same, hence my love of Ailing Loran. You get occasional glimpses of sky in the other two SUPER FUNTYME Depth 5 Fetid+Rotted+Cursed roots (Pthumie Ihyll and Isz Gravestone), but neither have quite that Vagrant Story-esque sense of dusty antiquity and buried opulence.



Ah Christ, I'm gonna fuck off to the Bloodborne thread again. This thread's bad for my spoilerphobia, still got DSIII/Sekiro/ER to go.

[Blinge]

how is DSIII going birru?

no one spoil for him

[BIL]

On affectionate hiatus in anticipation of quieter nights; been getting bummed SLOW DEEP & HARD @ work and home alike so just R2R projects for now; gon TOUCH TEH DARKNESS with muh new PS5 in Feb Mucho manloves & big hot boners, Section Chief Biruford out

[Immryr]

I finally started playing daemon x machina...... I'm not too far in so I don't have any real in depth opinions but good god, the characters are awful and they talk A LOT!

enjoying it other than that though

[Lander]

I finally started playing daemon x machina...... I'm not too far in so I don't have any real in depth opinions but good god, the characters are awful and they talk A LOT!

The absolute state of modern anime storytelling

Are there any games that actually pull off the triptych of regulation 3D anime style (i.e. Bamco / Genshin / 90% of the Vita library), good writing, and good acting? It's been an accurate portent of tropey brain-switch-offening in my experience, with the only outliers I can think of off the top of my head (selected Shin Megami Tensei, maybe early Xenoblade if word on the street is accurate) existing far enough over the sylization line as to not count.

[Air Master Burst]

Are there any games that actually pull off the triptych of regulation 3D anime style (i.e. Bamco / Genshin / 90% of the Vita library), good writing, and good acting?

I really enjoyed the Gravity Rush games, although there was admittedly very little voice acting.

[ryu]

I finally started playing daemon x machina...... I'm not too far in so I don't have any real in depth opinions but good god, the characters are awful and they talk A LOT!

enjoying it other than that though

Just wait until you hear Grief. Thought the story was corny but fun in japanese. It's not a masterpiece in terms of writing but the plot carried the game well enough for me. I'd rate it a solid 8/10. Liked the fast-paced action and OST, the game got me to feel alive for a little while. It overstays its welcome a little though. Thought there could have been fewer missions and basing stat progressing almost entirely around randomized loot ist complete BS.

[Steamflogger Boss]

Elden Snooze tbh

I enjoyed the game but this isn't wrong.

I think part of it was getting caught up in the zeitgeist of playing at release. It really starts to drag though, I think I've detailed all that in this thread before though.

[Stevens]

Elden Snooze tbh

I enjoyed the game but this isn't wrong.

I think part of it was getting caught up in the zeitgeist of playing at release. It really starts to drag though, I think I've detailed all that in this thread before though.

Yeah. I've also documented my feelings here and elsewhere. Hopefully they never go open world again.

Maybe someone will hack it and give us an Elden Ring that stiches the legacy stages together and reduces the size of the overworld by like 75%.

[Steamflogger Boss]

Yeah. I've also documented my feelings here and elsewhere. Hopefully they never go open world again.

Maybe someone will hack it and give us an Elden Ring that stiches the legacy stages together and reduces the size of the overworld by like 75%.

With how the sales went I think we are stuck with it.

[Blinge]

NGL i hate the term legacy stage hahah.
like all of soulsborne is now some ancient relic never to be visited again, the old stupid days.

It's a weird one when it comes to sales and games. titles 1-3 could be amazing.. and 4 will sell well because of that, and brand awareness, strength, higher budget.
So surely 4 sells well if 3 was good.. not if 4 was good.

[Lander]

Ha yeah, 'legacy dungeon' is a backhanded bit of nomenclature. Like they're sending ol' grampa Souls to the Dunbashin Retirement Home for Sunsetted Adventurers.

Though there was a statement at some point that Miyazaki wasn't going to let ER's success impact their future creativity, or something to that effect. You can interpret it any number of ways as with all PR bumph, but I'm hoping that's his way of saying they won't be going full Ubisoft without being so explicit as to anger the accountants.

[Blinge]

Well AC seems to fit that trend.

now lets all enjoy a girl reacting to the AC6 trailer. She sure loves mechs.
( biological women do not like mechs. change my mind )

https://youtu.be/W1ZCKRoMlek

also I saw a bunch of reactions to AC6 and the fact that there was 0 verbal reaction to "feed the fire" or " let the last cinders burn" shows me that streamers are fucking brain dead. absolute potatoes.

[Steamflogger Boss]

Ha yeah, 'legacy dungeon' is a backhanded bit of nomenclature. Like they're sending ol' grampa Souls to the Dunbashin Retirement Home for Sunsetted Adventurers.

Though there was a statement at some point that Miyazaki wasn't going to let ER's success impact their future creativity, or something to that effect. You can interpret it any number of ways as with all PR bumph, but I'm hoping that's his way of saying they won't be going full Ubisoft without being so explicit as to anger the accountants.

Really hope that is the case as I prefer they never go full open world again.

[Lander]

now lets all enjoy a girl reacting to the AC6 trailer. She sure loves mechs.
( biological women do not like mechs. change my mind )

https://youtu.be/W1ZCKRoMlek

The titanic cognitive clash between conditionally unconditional Fromsoft love and NUUU NOT THE CLANKY

And Switch in bed I can understand, but Switch on bed with full dock setup is beyond my comprehension. Filing that one under 'cognitohazard'.

also I saw a bunch of reactions to AC6 and the fact that there was 0 verbal reaction to "feed the fire" or " let the last cinders burn" shows me that streamers are fucking brain dead. absolute potatoes.

I think there's some legitimate psychology at play there; specifically the need to split your brain between chat and content. Context switching is the mind killer, so the stupidity is no surprise on some level.

Though I suppose the poppy dissonance of treating Souls like the second coming while simultaneously knowing bugger all about it is a higher-level kind of dumb.

[Sima Tuna]

It's a weird one when it comes to sales and games. titles 1-3 could be amazing.. and 4 will sell well because of that, and brand awareness, strength, higher budget.
So surely 4 sells well if 3 was good.. not if 4 was good.

And usually by 4 in whatever series, if the series was successful, then the executives start meddling to squeeze out even more money. And end up ruining the magic formula. Dead Space 3 is a classic example, despite only being the third entree. Dead Rising 3 and especially 4 were too.

Oh, you made a good game (dead rising 1) and it sold well? Let's make another good one to see if it still works. Oh, you made another good one and now the brand is established? Time to ruin that shit with aggressive monetization and by ripping off unrelated franchises that also sell well.

Dead Space 3 killed that franchise for years and you can be damn certain the reason they're resurrecting it with remakes is they lack confidence to create a Dead Space 4.

[Air Master Burst]

Dead Rising 3 and especially 4 were too.

Oh, you made a good game (dead rising 1) and it sold well? Let's make another good one to see if it still works. Oh, you made another good one and now the brand is established?

Funnily enough, Dead Rising is one franchise that didn't need executive meddling to kill it; the change of studios did that first.

The real issue with Dead Rising is that Capcom Vancouver NEVER understood what made the first game so great. Dead Rising 2 was still pretty good, but the cracks were showing with the stupid combo weapon shit and added fetch quests (ETA: and those HORRIBLE strip poker missions). Everything after DR1 is progressively worse as the series gets farther away from the routing and time management that makes the first one so brilliant. They also leaned harder into comedy as the series progressed, but even Case Zero didn't quite capture the same delightfully sincere b-movie cheese of Dead Rising 1.

[Blinge]

I think there's some legitimate psychology at play there; specifically the need to split your brain between chat and content. Context switching is the mind killer, so the stupidity is no surprise on some level.

Though I suppose the poppy dissonance of treating Souls like the second coming while simultaneously knowing bugger all about it is a higher-level kind of dumb.

bit of both I think!

[Steamflogger Boss]

[Blinge]

FUCK THAT COUSIN IT THING

oh my god.
is it a hand? is it a spider? why does it have so many fingers?
I've never experienced body horror in a game before. no game has ever made me physically repulsed but god damn,
the bunch of hands in northern liurnia genuinely repelled me to the point where my inputs suffered.

I might respec into faith just so i can kill them with fire

also man i love the

Spoiler

Rennala fight.. the first phase

. killed by a chandelier lmao 10/10.

Spoiler

Fool's Idol through the ages. The second form's gonna be a problem though because I decided, in my infinite wisdom.. that it should be a spell duel. I'm not gonna melee attack her, but all my spells do absolute piddly damage. even a fully charged glintstone cometshard. In her cutscene, she's revived or something by Renna the witch? I know from talking to people that Renna is part of the Carian line who have a holding up north.. so I'm gonna go there..
What i'm worried about though, is will this ruin the Rennala fight or make it trivial? Can someone tell me spoiler free?

Otherwise i was just gonna come back a bit more powerful, or with magic that doesn't do magic damage (if it exists)

[ryu]

@Blinge

Spoiler

As far as I remember you can do Rennala whenever in the game. But she's a bit of an early game boss so if you wait too long she really will be trivial. Although I don't know about approaching her with magic because I only played with melee builds. But I imagine her high magic defense will make a difference here.

[Blinge]

Oh i meant ‘thing’ not cousin it hahahah

Edit: Yeah ryu i already mentioned my spells do fuck all damage.
Although just got a whopping 3 more upgrades on the staff after doing one cave so i could give 'er another go

[Sima Tuna]

Dead Rising 3 and especially 4 were too.

Oh, you made a good game (dead rising 1) and it sold well? Let's make another good one to see if it still works. Oh, you made another good one and now the brand is established?

Funnily enough, Dead Rising is one franchise that didn't need executive meddling to kill it; the change of studios did that first.

The real issue with Dead Rising is that Capcom Vancouver NEVER understood what made the first game so great. Dead Rising 2 was still pretty good, but the cracks were showing with the stupid combo weapon shit and added fetch quests (ETA: and those HORRIBLE strip poker missions). Everything after DR1 is progressively worse as the series gets farther away from the routing and time management that makes the first one so brilliant. They also leaned harder into comedy as the series progressed, but even Case Zero didn't quite capture the same delightfully sincere b-movie cheese of Dead Rising 1.

I agree with you, but at least Dead Rising 2 had the core of the gameplay intact and was mostly ok.

Spoiler

Like, the crafting was dumb (just slows the pace of what should be a frantic gaming experience, all to craft weapons that would have been found in the environment in DR1) and the game had more gimmicks compared to DR1. One thing I love about the original Dead Rising is how pure the experience is. You start the game and after the tutorial, you're racing the clock every second. You're always making tactical decisions (in true survival horror fashion) about what to pick up (costs time) and what to use (costs resources.) Do you waste your valuable items to protect a survivor? Or do you kick them in the face away from that crowd of zombies and hope their HP can take the loss? All the time, you're managing your own health as well.

Dead Rising 1 is a game a lot of people love or hate. I can't even say they're wrong if they don't like it. DR1 is a "pure" experience. If you don't like the core gameplay then you will not like the game at all. But if you like it, it's perfect. I think part of the problem with Dead Rising 2 is DR1 left nowhere interesting for the devs to go with the concept. Crafting in games was becoming a big deal and so they naturally thought of crafting for a zombie game. Tapping into that Evil Dead 2 chainsaw hand energy, right? "Just add more (((awesome shit))) to the game and people will love it." If you look at the progression of Dead Rising games as the various teams adding stuff that they thought "gamers" would think was "awesome" then maybe some of those mistakes make sense. Dead Rising 3-4 with the waves and waves of zombos who die in 1 hit like it's a fucking musou game, because "more zombies are better amirite?" Or adding shitty vehicles because "running over zombies is cool yeah?"

So maybe I could extend some charity to Dead Rising 3 and say intentions might have been good. Unlike Dead Space 3, where the devs were required by EA to put in Call of Dooty co-op campaign and competitive MP just for their own sake. Carver was added because they needed a 2P character but they didn't have additional memory to make a unique model, so they couldn't use Ellie. They had to reuse Isaac's model for player 2 because that was all they could do within hardware limitations. So they reskinned Isaac as Carver and added Bland Call of Dooty Man to the game.

Massive rambling spoiled.

On the subject of FromSoft games, I'm still waiting for From to put out a really shit Souls game. I wasn't the biggest fan of Dork Souls 3. I thought the stapling of fast BB enemies onto slower Dark Souls player characters didn't work all that well, but the game is still at least decent. It just annoyed me that shields got massively nerfed. No shields works for Bloodborne because they give you the regain mechanic and better offhand options. DS3 is like "nah fam, just spam roll." Still an okay game though. Even if I think Dancer is a shit boss. The crypt king guy is dumb too. Sometimes he gets stuck in a loop of climbing when he's supposed to stop and let you actually fight him.