Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

[Searchlike]

But how did Konami never make a Brave Starr beat em up?

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↑ = Profit

The guy who made it actually is also best known for his work on TMNT.

Interesting, makes one wonder if it was some sort of first draft that had to be dropped in favor of the turtles because the world was not yet ready for the C.O.W. Boys , never was, really.

[Sumez]

It might be different based on where you live, but I feel like Moo Mesa is more popular for its video game than its cartoon series. Same with Bucky O'Hare.

When Rastan said Metamorphic Force felt like a game based on a license that never was, the first thing I thought of was Moo Mesa, only to remember that, oh yeah, supposedly there was something it was based on.
However, Mystic Warriors is another Konami game that feels like a saturday morning cartoon that doesn't exist. Complete with over-the-top cheesy villains. It's weird they hired(?) English voice "actors" for a game based entirely on a Japanese setting. The whole thing feels weirdly americanized in a really endearing way.

-"Hahahahaha! My rocket is the best!" -"Not!!"

-"Where is our friend?!" -"Hahaha, poor guy! Your comrade.. is now... urgggh!"

[BareKnuckleRoo]

The same goes for Gaiapolis. I can easily imagine a cartoon based on it (if not an anime), albeit a more serious one.

[Rastan78]

Bucky Ohare was another licensed one Konami did that was fairly obscure. Maybe not as obscure as Moo Mesa. But a lot of people probably came across the games and were like WTF is Bucky Ohare?

Capcom got in on some of that with Cadillacs and Dinosaurs.

[Creamy Goodness]

Hard to say a specific game mechanic that I love, but for me a good OST can take an even mediocre game and make it great for me.

Mechanic that I hate... the tiny hitbox on a boss that is usually being blocked and is only vulnerable for 3 seconds at a time. This turns boss fights into a slog.

[BIL]

: Prestige Reversals Under Pressure. Basically, any time a deadly enemy attack opens up a corresponding instakill reversal, which you can trigger for a deft (and preferably spectacular) takedown; at the risk of fumbling it, and getting annihilated by something you'd otherwise evade or block. Not to be confused with the "only vulnerable during attack" design common to Gradius BigCores et al. I mean a sudden "you or them" window.

Brutal Barry's Donkey Toss is not to be fucked with!

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But with good shootin', you can bring that entire payload down on his big dumb head!

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[Air Master Burst]

The greatest video game mechanic of all time is the Dog Button. Games with Dog Buttons are always automatically better than games without Dog Buttons. Lots of games have dogs, but relatively few of those games have a dedicated Dog Button.

This is why Shadow Dancer and Dead To Rights are objectively the best games ever made.




I can't find a good gif of the Dead To Rights Dog Button in action, but they even named the dog Shadow so I'm guessing someone was a Shinobi fan.

I'm sure there are other games with Dog Buttons out there, and they are also the best games ever made. Anybody got any?

[BrianC]

Exidy's Mouse Trap is the earliest example I can think of. It has a power up that makes the mouse turn into a dog with a press of a big 'ol dog button.

[BIL]

: Functional taunting. DMC immediately comes to mind, but on a more personal note, AKI's N64 wrasslin. Which technically began on PS1, if not even earlier in theory (AKI were former Human staffers and Fire Pro vets).

If you hang back on an opponent, they can razz you. And this isn't a Capcom fighter; the only one getting meter is them. This leads to predictable situations where the taunter gets smacked - but more humorously, since you can cancel out of taunts with a couple frames' delay, they can also counter and potentially break your fuckin arm off or strangle you. By the time of the series' zenith - either Virtual Pro Wrestling 2 or No Mercy, depending on who you ask - you can have four taunts, from a quick middle finger for a tiny meter bump, to extravagant willy-waving obscenities for a massive jolt; latter best-deployed after sending the opponent out of the ring. It's a marvelous bit of meta-theatre, with the crowd roaring their approval, and "OOOH" -ing should you get belted out of your disrespectful shape-throwing.

While they are model party brawlers, these games are also hellaciously competitive, especially the aforementioned duo which methodically steamed away exploits and jank - nothing seals a hard-won victory like doing the "imaginary fistful of hair w/ violent pelvic thrusting" while covered in blood and holding your own shattered ribcage together as your bludgeoned enemy, fighting with superhuman resolve to rise from the mat, collapses into writhing coma! KAY OH! You hurt me but I hurt you a lot more, cunt! And should they make it back to their feet - that's a nice fat jolt of meter for the ongoing war!

EVEN NINJA APPROVES OF THIS BONE-CRUSHING WRASSLIN (・｀W´・)

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This also brings to mind Okami, another Kamiya highlight, where you can beat an enemy into the ground in a hail of spectral violence, before administering the all-too-earthy indignity of a hot blast of piss all over their face (complete with "PBLTHHH! FUCK!" reaction), before delivering an almighty body-bisecting coup de grace. True Alpha shit. But speaking of,

: Games where you can shit on things, of which Okami is also one! C'mon man /sniffinjoe That's just rank. Fine line between Iggy Pop getting his hog out onstage and GG Allin shitting all over himself. Former's a lovable scamp, the latter needed punting into a running woodchipper. GGlad he's dead!

[Sima Tuna]

In God Hand, when you taunt an enemy, you can manipulate their actions. Certain enemies engage in specific behaviors when taunted. This makes taunting advantageous even beyond the fact it gives you meter for your god hand. If you can predict an enemy's actions in God Hand, it means you can reliably perfect dodge whatever they're going to do.

The same thing happens in Fist of the North Star: Ken's Rage. When fighting groups of enemies, it can be difficult to keep track of them all on the screen. They will spread out and stagger their attacks, which home in on your last position. However! When you taunt a group of enemies, they all jump together into a big pile. They're very considerate that way. By gathering themselves into a group, you can more easily wallspat them or hit them with one of your signature techniques.

So knowing when to taunt is very important in both God Hand and Ken's Rage. The mechanic is well-considered and serves multiple purposes within gameplay.

[XoPachi]

I like every quirk in the driving of F-Zero games. Momentum throttling in GX is one of my favorites because it permeates and supplements most other features of driving and track design. And it also helps build speed when sliding among other uses. Adds a nice layer of complexity where you don't want to always be holding the gas.

[cfx]

The greatest video game mechanic of all time is the Dog Button. Games with Dog Buttons are always automatically better than games without Dog Buttons. Lots of games have dogs, but relatively few of those games have a dedicated Dog Button.

I prefer games such as Borderlands or Contra Hard Corps, that let me shoot dogs.

[BIL]

: Brutal, momentum-altering attacks from prone or otherwise on the ground. I'm talking things looking up, homie goes for an easy finish then - whoops! Punched right in the nuts, oh no! Kneecaps blown off, crumbs! Womp womp muhfucka (｀w´メ)

Put some ice on that (■｀w´■)

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Snakes don't need knees (■｀w´■)

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As recently mentioned over in Ham-Hams Hot Ham n' Cheeze Thread, Crime Fighters 2 is sublime at this. The ground is not the end. It's the beginning of the end. (｀w´メ)

In God Hand, when you taunt an enemy, you can manipulate their actions.

Speaking of Mikami, I suppose Vanquish's smoke break counts here too. Nothing says unbovvered like enjoying a cig mid-firefight, then chucking it disdainfully to give away your position, bringing all active enemies down on your head. And that is a very bad place to be! For them. MGS's wall-tap too, in the sense of a seeming handicap that becomes massively powerful in learned hands.

[Lemnear]

HATE:
-Open World games that closes all the roads at the beginning until you talk with some NPC.
-Game as a Service.
-Boring Mainstream Copy-Paste AAA Games.

LOVE:

-Rail-Drift mechanics like Ridge Racer.
-Y2K/Frutiger Aero/Techno Zen influences.
-Sense of Speed.

[cfx]

Not much is a faster turn off for me than seeing the words Open World in the features or description of any game. The only reason it is not an immediate NO is because it's considered such a selling point that the term is being applied to many games by the marketers where it isn't actually true.

[copy-paster]

Hate hate hate:

Being forced to move left or having enemies spawn from the left in a sidescrolling game which locks the player character's position on the screen somewhat to the left of the center.

Shadow of the Ninja have this one but very rarely enemies spawn on the left during the hori scrolling (even the ones that do, they're easily dispatchable), I take this as a good pass.

I say this again but I do HATE the Screen Edge Ridn' scrolling like Konami Wai Wai World, that one has to be the most severe case I've seen.

[BIL]

Not much is a faster turn off for me than seeing the words Open World in the features or description of any game. The only reason it is not an immediate NO is because it's considered such a selling point that the term is being applied to many games by the marketers where it isn't actually true.

Ooof, just looked up Aggelos to make sure I'd spelled its name right, and saw it'd been branded "Open World." 3; It most definitely isn't; it's an instantly-lovable Dragon's Trap tribute with an expertly-streamlined map to unpick. It's as "Open World" as Zelda II and Faxanadu and Dark Souls.

All I can say about actual Open World games is I don't play them. Looking forward to Elden Ring at some point, but I'd punt it into a woodchipper for another meticulously-crafted trip to Yharnam in a rabid blood-drunk heartbeat.

[Sima Tuna]

I hate autoscrolling levels inserted into games that aren't shmups. If your core gameplay doesn't involve autoscrolling, then introducing autoscrolling to it is gonna suck.

[Lander]

Hate: Crafting
Introducing algebra to your item system does not make it more fun.

Love: Mutually Assured Destruction*
A situation in which the player and their opponent (if applicable) are both doomed, and the only way out is to steal the win and get bailed to safety by the LEVEL COMPLETE! screen.

Basically just Bangai-O: The Bulletpoint; when you and the stage boss have counter-counter-counter escalated until the world outside the instakill homing missile ring is both inaccessible and irrelevant.

[Lemnear]

Not much is a faster turn off for me than seeing the words Open World in the features or description of any game. The only reason it is not an immediate NO is because it's considered such a selling point that the term is being applied to many games by the marketers where it isn't actually true.

How do you describe REAL Open World games if not Open World?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Ooof, just looked up Aggelos to make sure I'd spelled its name right, and saw it'd been branded "Open World." 3; It most definitely isn't; it's an instantly-lovable Dragon's Trap tribute with an expertly-streamlined map to unpick. It's as "Open World" as Zelda II and Faxanadu and Dark Souls.

They seem to be confusing Open World with Non-Linear. Having a large map with multiple branching paths, with player choice in what paths to explore first, certainly does not equate to it being truly Open World where there's relatively no boundaries on movement (GTA, BotW).

Hate: Crafting
Introducing algebra to your item system does not make it more fun.

Crafting systems are really hit or miss, I agree. They can vary from being pretty simple like the "choose an accessory to fit into this equipment to boost its stats" or it can be wildly convoluted like Star Ocean 3 where items have to transfer their stats to other items through a fairly complex process, and you're forced to learn to craft properly as the top tier postgame weapons all have negative modifiers you want to remove before they become usable.

[Lander]

Crafting systems are really hit or miss, I agree. They can vary from being pretty simple like the "choose an accessory to fit into this equipment to boost its stats" or it can be wildly convoluted like Star Ocean 3 where items have to transfer their stats to other items through a fairly complex process, and you're forced to learn to craft properly as the top tier postgame weapons all have negative modifiers you want to remove before they become usable.

I can give a little respect to the convoluted approach since it resembles a form of engineering, though games like Potion Craft where that process is the main appeal are the only time I really want to engage with it.

It's the cases where useful items are discretized into useless bits that need to be assembled that irk me in the main - like taking a regular shop system, then shoving dynamite in it so the merchants and their stock are spread all over the world in 0.001%-sized pieces.

[Sumez]

Ooof, just looked up Aggelos to make sure I'd spelled its name right, and saw it'd been branded "Open World." 3; It most definitely isn't; it's an instantly-lovable Dragon's Trap tribute with an expertly-streamlined map to unpick. It's as "Open World" as Zelda II and Faxanadu and Dark Souls.

They seem to be confusing Open World with Non-Linear. Having a large map with multiple branching paths, with player choice in what paths to explore first, certainly does not equate to it being truly Open World where there's relatively no boundaries on movement (GTA, BotW).

Pretty clearly a subjective definition.
While I wouldn't define Aggelos as open world, because it has a very linear set of progression barriers, I think expecting "open world" to always imply free movement in any direction without obstacles only serves to diminish the term. I mean I guess it's easy to just limit it to games like Horizon, Tsushima, Assassin's Creed and all that, because in that way it's easy to say "I always hate open world games". But I love open world games, I just don't love those games. I love the idea of an open world in a game where you can go anywhere and do anything in the order you want, but doing so actually involves overcoming challenges and obstacles, and occasionally progression in one area will prove beneficial to helping progression in others areas, and so on.

I'd consider Dragon Quest 1, 2 and 3, first two Zeldas (and maybe 3 and 4 as well?), all Romancing Saga games, and most point n click adventures all open world, and I love that design.
I wish Dragon Quest would go back to being open world, but not in the Breath of the Wild sense.

[cfx]

I don't think open world is an appropriate term for those games. Were they ever called that? I never remember hearing the term at all until things like Assassin's Creed came along, and the term essentially used to put down games that aren't in that style.

If I'm wrong and they did used to be called that, using the term for them now in most places is going to be as confusing as calling the games we discuss here "shooters" given that means Call of Duty or Doom to the average gamer now.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I wish Dragon Quest would go back to being open world, but not in the Breath of the Wild sense.

Dragon Quest was never an Open World style of game, not in the sense that the term applies to modern games. Obviously this is down to opinion as to what one defines an Open World vs merely a large map with non-linear choices available, but I think one of the hallmarks of an Open World game is the freedom to go wherever you want without necessarily having a specific goal in mind. In the Dragon Quest games with large maps, you're very strictly gated as to where you can go by your level and equipment. The map is certainly large and there's lots to explore and freedom to wander around, but you don't have the capability to access most of the map immediately from the get-go. Trying to wander early on will get you killed by far higher level monsters, and until you grind it is physically impossible to access the later parts of the game. The same is true in Mother 1 where the game opens up and becomes totally non-linear, with the endgame areas accessible if you like about halfway through the game (once the train tracks are opened), but you're not going to be able to access anything immediately if you're under levelled.

Zelda 1 is much more Open World in its design in that you can truly go to any end of the map right from the start if you like, albeit it takes a bit of skill depending on the monsters there (the top left corner of the map is where you go early to have a very bad time).

The Ultima games are another example of Open World design in an RPG; the enemy encounters on the overworld are scaled to your level, so you can freely wander wherever without feeling like you're walled off from areas by the enemy strength. You can literally travel just about anywhere you please, with additional access coming when you purchase or find appropriate transportation, a fairly low bar in the games.

[Sumez]

Yeah that's the definition I disagree with

Dragon Quest 1 through 3 are definitely open world.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

They're games with big maps, but if you have to level grind to access things, it's hardly wide open in a true, accessible sense. I think that's an important distinction. Even something like Dark Souls is far more open in the sense that no level grinding is necessary and you can more or less go wherever you please from the get-go with a little know-how.

Compare this to something like BotW or Grand Theft Auto where the entire map is open from the start and nothing has actively walled off certain areas. It's the same difference between Zelda 1 and Link's Awakening. The first game has no real barriers and you can do plenty of stuff out of intended order if you like, whereas in Link's Awakening the map is huge, but it's a far more linear experience as the game has very clear limitations on where you can go, based on the equipment you have, with equipment being acquired in a linear progression from the dungeons.

[Sumez]

Yes, they are not like GTA, but they are still clearly open world games. I'm not sure why you'd need to change my mind on that

I do get your point, if the open world is actually interesting and challenging to explore, you don't think it's open world, and that's fine of course - few genre adjectives are really set in stone.
But I don't personally think it's worth making that distinction, leaving us with no fitting descriptor of the good open world games. Instead I'd just leave it at "awesome open world" and "shitty open world"

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Yes, they are not like GTA, but they are still clearly open world games. I'm not sure why you'd need to change my mind on that

Oh, I don't expect to change your mind; I can tell you've dug your heels in on this. However, I think you're wrong not to make a distinction, and I want to make it clear why that is to anyone else casually browsing this thread. Admittedly, I don't really have a good term for "game with an open world but you have to go to the effort to unlock it all rather than it being immediately open", so I can't actually complain too much about them being described as open world compared to far more linear games.

[Sumez]

I'm not wrong though though.
If we don't cherish the good open world games, we'll be stuck in a world where the only ones are the bad ones.