S2RPS - Beat 'Em Up 911

[Blinge]

Strut is a great guess.... it could be strut, depends on what people think.

I had another word in mind tho

ha you guys are so close
but my choice of words is a bit odd.

[drauch]

None of the blanks got filled in?!?!? I'm out-verbed for S!

[chum]

Still: could you please mention some of the bugs? I don't remember any, right now.

Magic can randomly give 0 score, It's not even that uncommon sadly
The entire Puppet boss screen is a bug, but just because you know that in advance, does not save you from having your Mr Mikata get stuck and immobile, killed 2 of my runs that way.
The game can softlock and there's weird little bugs that are mainly just a bit distracting too like the 3rd boss having his hair swing around for a longer period while he's moving around and attacking.

[Gamer707b]

Well, we might re-name the thread "bmups advice?", really

On Warriors of Fate, you can check my posts on page 5, but in this post I would add a short: "It's OK; far wider move-set than FF, longer game, more complex set pieces and bosses, slow pace".
A conceptual sequel, though it may not be your cup of tea.

On Captain Commando, we should also have Ruldra's comments in this or some thread (linked here but on a previous page, anyway).
My two cents is that Capcom were trying a faster-paced, more dynamic game but succeeded only to some extent, since all running/charging attacks need to be handled with care and the FF-like crowd control methods tend to be safer. I find the bosses particularly exasperating, and the final boss is really hard without the exploit.
I don't think it's bad, and the really zany pulpy Science Fiction atmosphere is something I still find endearing, but aiming for the 1-CC may be really tricky (well, it's a Capcom bmup, after all).

On other games...I don't want to steal posting space to people who probably can give more useful answers than this one

Thank for the info. I've been wanting to delve into the Capcom Belt Collection and I'll be doing that soon, so all this info will be super helpful.

[Blinge]

None of the blanks got filled in?!?!? I'm out-verbed for S!

Dip deep

S______ 2 right punching Street T_____ in the mouth

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Strolling 2 right punching Street Trash in the mouth

imma punch burinju in the mouth for making this harder than wordle >:V

[Blinge]

no and no

the T__ word is the worst

[drauch]

STREET TREATS.

[BIL]

GORILLA BEATINS: Beltscroller/Brawler/Beat 'Em Up 911





That's what I would go with. (the "911" emergency number is blatant NTSCU chauvinism, get owned Cuckfordshire )

[Rastan78]

Streets of Teets: Bare Moose Knuckle III

[Randorama]

Growl is a Taito bmup I adore, though:

1. I never achieved anything relevant on it (maybe I reached the platform level once?);
2. I would never dream of saying that it is a good game, never mind a good bmup;
3. Anyway I adore it because the Yack OST is superb (and Randorama's opinions on VGM OST's are the holy truth because I can shout it on the interwebs until the end of the interwebs);

I always had the impression that the game can be 1-CC'ed if a player can abuse the whip (or any of the weapons, really), and master the platform bits (easier said than done, of course...).
Any input on the matter?

[Blinge]

It was

Swagger 2 Right Punching Street Toughs in the Mouth

[Randorama]

Time to spam TL; DR posts without too much remorse. Birru-sensei should be proud of me, I guess. My random thoughts on a bmup I have been enjoying for a while, without feeling the faintest sense of remorse.

Warrior Blade/Rastan (Saga) III is a Taito bmup that I only recently decided to learn and like. I recalled that my uncle converted a Darius II cab to host this board, so I had this funny experience of playing the third instalment of the series on a cab with giant fish on the sides (my uncle had the 2-screen version cab, in case you wonder). As a kid, I was not particularly impressed with the game, since at the time I had a strange love affair with Capcom’s bmups (loved them, but I would get my ass handed down heavily: unrequited love to the extreme?). I certainly liked (and still like) the OST, for reasons that I am going to discuss below. This is the last title in the series, and chronicles the adventures of Rastan when he was 28 years old. That is, the game follows the theme established in the first title, entirely plagiarised from Robert E. Howard’s Conan stories (Rastan is a barbarian who will become a king of some place, etc. etc.).

The game has 10 to 14 stages. There is a prologue stage and an epilogue stage, 4 stages that are divided into two parts, and 4 stages that can be accessed if players reach certain performance requirements (“bad fortune” conditions, in the game). Players can choose the next stage to complex after completing each pair or triplet of stages, starting after the prologue. Stage order statically determines the difficulty of the stages, which amounts to the number of enemies appearing at each wave and their hit points. Rank/dynamic difficulty seems to affect enemies’ battle prowess and aggressiveness. The longer you survive and the less damage you take, the smarter and more aggressive enemies will be (I believe). Completing each stage gives the players various permanent power-ups that considerably increase their abilities, though. Players can become faster, stronger, have higher HP and luck (i.e. get useful items more often via RNG’s) after completing each stage, as befits RPG-like games.

Warrior Blade/Rastan (Saga) III thus bears a passing resemblance to early RPG-like titles such as Black Tiger and Wonder Boy in Monster Land, two other favourites of mine. The resemblance ends here, since the game is actually a hack’n slash bmup in which Rastan and two other characters (a princess with a whip and a ninja guy with kunai) need to cut hordes of enemies with their weapons, punches and kicks. The game exists in stark contrast to its predecessors with respect to graphics, since the quality of the illustrations is generally high and design is quite creative (tons of enemies). The animation quality is impressive for the protagonists (huge sprites moving very smoothly) and bosses, but also zakus. Taito devs must have felt embarrassed by the previous titles’ quality in this department, so they made an effort on this one (…I guess).

The fighting system is vaguely reminiscent of old-school, dice-and-pencil RPG’s. Each character can perform a sizeable variety of standing, dashing and jumping attacks that may either hit the enemies, get parried, or clash against the enemies’ weapons. The precise attack that each character performs depends on the enemies’ attacks and position, but the general rule is that characters can perform mini-combos if the first attack lands and the other attacks are unleashed in quick succession (i.e. you need to button-mash a lot). Even when enemies parry, parries will usually damage weapons and shields, so Rastan and co. can literally shred enemies to death by disarming and then pummelling them (read also here). Case in point, the demo plays show that an intended way to play the game is to dash forward (double-tap, hold direction) jump on a crowd, then slash to death enemies (possibly going through a few disarming hits). Players can also do 1-HP kills on floored enemies, so aggressive playing is general encouraged.

The game’s extra stages are interesting. I do not really know the conditions to access all the 4 extra stages, but they should all be related to performance (and thus, ultimately, rank). For instance, one of the four stages has a first part in which the players must fight against bandits in a forest, while riding horses (beautifully animated, of course). If players can kill 23 or more bandits out of 25 max, then the extra stage should be accessed before the second part of the stage (Sorry if I am forgetting the stages’ names). This is not easy, as enemies appear according to a “caravan mode” order, and the players must activate the extra enemies by quickly dispensing a set of 5. That is, the default number is 20 enemies; quickly kill 5 in a row, and an extra sixth enemy appears. Repeat until you get at least 23 enemies (or 24? I cannot confirm). The extra stages are more difficult than the normal stages, but they also give the most useful power-ups to the players (e.g. increased speed attack). A dipswitch set allows players to automatically access them; players may use this "cheat" to always enter them.

So, my own personal experience is that the game is quite enjoyable if played in the intended way (charge-hack-slash). Other approaches are riskier, though generally fine. Generally speaking, the game requires players to attack first and establish attacking priority on crowds via combos. If players hit first and button-mash wisely, most crowds can be handed with relative ease. Characters only have one energy bar and energy items are rare, so you want to be sure that you don’t lose half a bar via a few well-placed hits. Once characters become fully powered-up, they also become fairly stronger than any other enemy, irrespective of the rank level (as in Black Tiger).Ironically, this entails that the best route (top-left stage first, then move counter-clockwise) makes the first two stages the hardest, and the last stage a victory lap. Bosses tend to be push-overs once you know the specific technique for each boss, to make difficulty matters even more lopsided.

I discovered all of this stuff after decades of dabbling with the game without much commitment. I remember re-discovering this title via MAME in the early ‘00s, and then a second time on the Taito Legends compilation. Only recently, however, I felt the middle-aged desire to go back to this title and its predecessor (ack!) to 1-CC them. I first 1-CC’ed the game on normal settings, and then used the dipswitch “cheat” to 1-CC the extended version. The game has a bottle-neck in difficulty around the second stage, but once the characters have 4 to 6 permanent power-ups, they will be powerful enough to handle any crowd. If you any gaming experience about Black Tiger and WBML, you will know that this is typical of these early RPG-like games. Taito games also featured this approach to difficulty (or: “You can go survive beyond the halfway point? OK, 1-CC the game and be done with it!”).

I can now 1-CC the title on a semi-regular basis, so I am actually enjoying the newfound skill enough to keep it fresh. There must be a name for the feeling, or perhaps even emotion, that people have when they master in middle age what they fumbled in childhood (…”adulthood”? “maturity”?). I often spot this emotion stalking my subconscious when playing the game. The game’s ending song and its very Zuntata-ish, melancholic-ish theme certainly conjure it well, I would add. Furthermore, it does not help that the programmers were probably conscious that this was going to be the final title in the series. So, my general recommendation is that you could play this game if you are interested in a bmup that is quite different from the Capcom fare (e.g. Knights of the Round, as both involve slashing enemies), and gives players quite a bit of freedom. If style is important and substance is not critical (hey, it’s a Taito game), then you should be set. Me, “I am still in search of a country where I would be king”, to cite King Conan/Rastan.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

After playing Crime Fighters 2, I've been on a small brawler kick the last several days.

Metamorphic Force - I've never really clicked with this game in the past, but finally was able to get into it and got a clear. Awesome game. It is a bit simple mechanically, its moveset not matching the robustness of some of Capcom's stronger arcade brawlers, but it's got a great pace. It moves along quickly, enemies never sticking around too long - especially under the weight of your stomping attack, which is always gratifying in every brawler - and its lavish presentation is as lovable as you'd expect from arcade Konami, featuring cool vistas, fun character designs, and music that perfectly suits the action. Enemies do fairly severe damage to you, and you have only two lives, but your standard attack string has such high range (for three of the four characters, anyway, the bear is a bit stubby) that crowd control is pretty simple. So even though the game never becomes quite as tactical as some particularly-demanding brawlers do, it's never trivial or dull.

The game does have a few weaknesses, though - a few of the bosses are a bit too fond of sudden combo escapes or i-frame laden moves that make fighting them head-on awkward (in the case of the stage 3 golem, whose invincible swipe can be bypassed with jumping attacks) or unreasonable (in the case of the stage 4 cyclops, who seems best fought slowly by baiting out his body splash attacks so you can get some stomps in - a bit of a drag). I think there's some mild weirdness with the detection for grabs, which is less forgiving than you might expect given the size of player and enemy sprites. This really just serves to devalue grabs as an option, to a degree, pushing the player to use jabs to control space instead of the usually-more satisfying throws - not quite AvP levels of awkward, but enough to be a bit offputting. Lastly, the enemies don't have a lot to make them interestingly distinct; they're mostly just made unique by from how far across the x-axis they can reach you. It fits, given the game's simpler mechanics, but leaves the combat feeling perhaps a bit drier than it could have - though again, the game's pace and well-balanced difficulty mean it still works very well.

Double Dragon 2 - Very impressed by this game. Crime Fighters 2's Technos-flavored action motivated me to dip a bit more into the Double Dragon series (I've enjoyed FC 2 and Advance in the past), but this in particular hits the spot - I love its fast, brutal action, its emphasis on careful and precise positioning, the powerful and sharp impact weapons (whether used by you or the enemy) have on combat - it's a tremendously tactile game. Thanks to the help of BIL's great guide, I've made it up to the stage 3 boss a few times.

[BIL]

Haha, glad it's proven useful. I think I might whip the text into shape and redo the images for DBPS02.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Metamorphic Force - I've never really clicked with this game in the past, but finally was able to get into it and got a clear.

Congrats on the clear.

It's my fave of Konami's brawler's I've had the chance to get into. That's not exactly high praise though, as Konami has made several brawlers (namely licensed stuff like TMNT and X-Men) where sudden combo escapes are a thing during bosses, and Metamorphic Force happens to be the least silly and the most manageable of the bunch.

It's a shame that the different regions are messed up. The JP version's the best by far since its lifebar is sensible, even if it's the only one missing the game's best music that plays during the EU and US exclusive boss rush.

Enemies do fairly severe damage to you, and you have only two lives, but your standard attack string has such high range (for three of the four characters, anyway, the bear is a bit stubby) that crowd control is pretty simple. So even though the game never becomes quite as tactical as some particularly-demanding brawlers do, it's never trivial or dull.

Max is unusual in that his low air jump kick actually hits grounded enemies as well as standing enemies. You can use it repeatedly instead of stomping and along with his Up + Attack bite grab he's top tier by far.

Ban's jump attacks leave a bit to be desired but his range on the ground is solid and he can throw enemies in either direction on a grab just like Ivan (hold Forward and press Jump + Attack to do a forward "throw").

Claude's range is pretty decent, nothing really wrong with him. His attack string is one hit more than the others but the damage is the same. He's fairly fast so it's not a huge disadvantage.

Ivan's got a very strong diagonal jump attack where he lands his butt on enemies (will one-shot most types) but he's generally the worst in the game since his high jump attack is awkward and has recovery, his stomp (where he sits on enemies) is slow, and his grabs aren't terribly powerful despite looking like they ought to be.

(in the case of the stage 4 cyclops, who seems best fought slowly by baiting out his body splash attacks so you can get some stomps in - a bit of a drag). I think there's some mild weirdness with the detection for grabs, which is less forgiving than you might expect given the size of player and enemy sprites. This really just serves to devalue grabs as an option, to a degree, pushing the player to use jabs to control space instead of the usually-more satisfying throws

Yeah, the cyclops and the demon lady are best dealt with by baiting their jumps, using a desperation to dodge as necessary, and then stomping. Directly punching isn't ideal. The cyclops can also be dealt with by baiting it into grabbing you; if you're quick and mash out of the grab you can score free hits, but if you don't mash out you'll lose like 3/4 of your health. Ouch. Demon lady also has a unique grab if you're facing away from her where he grabs and throws you with her ass cheeks (?!) which hits like a freight train. Getting the 1CC really feels like it comes down to getting to each boss with as much health as possible so you can hopefully kill them before they kill you.

Grabbing normal enemies is pretty reliable depending on the enemy type fortunately, but there's one enemy in particular that can straight up ignore grabs or even trade hits with you. For some reason the barehanded orcs are actually scarier than the ones with weapons because they can straight up counter your jabs or ignore you as you walk into grab them. Very odd. The spider guys in the last level are also scary and not safe to grab as they're just as likely to grab you instead.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Congrats on the clear.

It's my fave of Konami's brawler's I've had the chance to get into. That's not exactly high praise though, as Konami has made several brawlers (namely licensed stuff like TMNT and X-Men) where sudden combo escapes are a thing during bosses, and Metamorphic Force happens to be the least silly and the most manageable of the bunch.

It's a shame that the different regions are messed up. The JP version's the best by far since its lifebar is sensible, even if it's the only one missing the game's best music that plays during the EU and US exclusive boss rush.

Thanks! It's tough to decide whether I like Metamorphic Force or Crime Fighters 2 more. CF2 has bits of awkwardness and can be a bit too strict and puzzle-like in some spots which detracts from the raw action, but Metamorphic Force's more easygoing combat is really pleasant to get into without quite being as lax as console brawlers. It's definitely unfortunately true that the average Konami arcade brawler is not great, but there are some likable ones - Simpsons (JP version of course) is solid, if unexceptional, and Violent Storm seems promising from what little I've played.

The boss rush in the western versions of the game is interesting. Given that it has unique music, seems to be built up to a bit with some of the earlier bosses' death animations that feature their spirits drifting away, and that stage 5 makes little dramatic sense without it (why have a coliseum and unique stage for one boss battle), I have to imagine that the game was actually designed with it in mind, and then Konami cut it for the Japanese release - maybe because it was deemed excessively difficult? - while leaving it for the western revisions, which don't feel like they were intended to be properly balanced around mastery.

Max is unusual in that his low air jump kick actually hits grounded enemies as well as standing enemies. You can use it repeatedly instead of stomping and along with his Up + Attack bite grab he's top tier by far.

Ban's jump attacks leave a bit to be desired but his range on the ground is solid and he can throw enemies in either direction on a grab just like Ivan (hold Forward and press Jump + Attack to do a forward "throw").

Claude's range is pretty decent, nothing really wrong with him. His attack string is one hit more than the others but the damage is the same. He's fairly fast so it's not a huge disadvantage.

Ivan's got a very strong diagonal jump attack where he lands his butt on enemies (will one-shot most types) but he's generally the worst in the game since his high jump attack is awkward and has recovery, his stomp (where he sits on enemies) is slow, and his grabs aren't terribly powerful despite looking like they ought to be.

I swung back and forth between the four characters all the way up to the end, and only half-settled on Ban because he seems to hit slightly harder than the others while also still having decent range. I leaned towards Ivan initially just for the excellent violence of his throws, but his limited range really makes him a tough option; it does sadly feel like he's the weaker character.

Max definitely seems like he's pretty clearly the best character just on the basis of his absurd jumping attack, which is incredible for crowd control and probably gives him higher damage overall than either of the dedicated power characters.

Yeah, the cyclops and the demon lady are best dealt with by baiting their jumps, using a desperation to dodge as necessary, and then stomping. Directly punching isn't ideal. The cyclops can also be dealt with by baiting it into grabbing you; if you're quick and mash out of the grab you can score free hits, but if you don't mash out you'll lose like 3/4 of your health. Ouch. Demon lady also has a unique grab if you're facing away from her where he grabs and throws you with her ass cheeks (?!) which hits like a freight train. Getting the 1CC really feels like it comes down to getting to each boss with as much health as possible so you can hopefully kill them before they kill you.

Grabbing normal enemies is pretty reliable depending on the enemy type fortunately, but there's one enemy in particular that can straight up ignore grabs or even trade hits with you. For some reason the barehanded orcs are actually scarier than the ones with weapons because they can straight up counter your jabs or ignore you as you walk into grab them. Very odd. The spider guys in the last level are also scary and not safe to grab as they're just as likely to grab you instead.

The demon woman felt like the most overall volatile boss (aside from maybe the final boss's dragon form perhaps), but I didn't find her as annoying as the cyclops. It seems like you can generally let her walk into your attack string from off-axis to hit her safely, plus you can at least nail her during her taunts or after her evasive flip (and maybe after her stomp). The bosses are definitely the weaker point of the game, but only a little of Konami's poor arcade brawler boss design made it into this, and most of them seem reasonably fightable.

I agree that grab hitboxes are consistent and overall fair, but the hitbox does seem small compared to something like Final Fight, and I feel like even lower-level enemies might be able to initiate attacks from off-axis to prevent you from walking into them and grabbing them - not unreasonable, but it feels safer to rely on jabs. The spiders, certainly, are a threatening enemy - the one enemy type you can't reliably jab out due to their nasty grab - but in that one instance I felt going in for grabs from off-axis seemed the best and safest way to deal with them from your standard moveset.

[Randorama]

Metamorphic Force is a great game, though its various revisions suffer from a particularly bad case of Konami-itis (i.e., JP versions are fine, anything else is a lottery). I 1-CC'ed the JP version last summer or so, after a few well-placed attempts in a week's time or so. Back in 1994, I was able to 1-CC the EU version as well, but that required me quite more time.

The EU version seems to force players to adopt the intended game style - pierce through stages at high speeds with combos. The escamotage they adopted is really annoying - decreasing energy. However, if you play at tempo and don't get hit, the extra energy items are relatively frequent and will balance out the losses and may even increase your total hit points from the starting 100. My best HP level back in the day was around 300 or so, shortly before the final boss (i.e., go very fast and never get hit). I had a friend who cleared something like 6 or 7 loops, and could even reach 1000 HP's.

The US version is nearly unplayable, the way I see it. The energy decrease goes faster, difficulty should be higher and it gives less energy than the JP version. I do believe that it is 1-CC'able, but a player should basically have a perfect game, or something (and anyway the off-axis combo problems also seem to increase in frequency...).

Some random thoughts:

- The devil lady's "ass smothering attack" should actually be a forbidden grappling move aimed at breaking necks via sitting pressure. It is animated in that cheesy BDSM manner, but in real life it should be devastating. Maybe I am misunderstanding your comments, guys, but which version of the game has a boss rush for st. 5? All the versions I played only have the devil lady.

- I usually play Claude (the French "loup garou"), as his very high speed allows the players to move forward as fast as possible, once they have a good grasp of enemy positioning and can thus avoid a sudden hit. Claude has a good descending high kick that also hits floored enemies. With some good timing, a high kick floors virtually every enemy and can be the start of a general stampede combo.

- I believe that the st. 3 golem starts breaking combos more often once it starts flashing, but with Claude I can side-step the hammering punches/kicks, move to its back and hit for 4 (or even grab and hit). Once you get a good feeling of how fast characters are, even the very small grab windows and stilted attacks can be managed easily. The devil lady/dominatrix is very demanding anyway - I am pretty sure that the window for grabs shrinks down to 3 frames or so (a tenth of a second? *very short*), once she's in desperation mode.

- I do believe that this one and Violent Storm inspired Capcom's AvP and Armored Warriors, at least in terms of speeding up the pace considerably.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Maybe I am misunderstanding your comments, guys, but which version of the game has a boss rush for st. 5? All the versions I played only have the devil lady.

The UAA version played in this video from Janet, at least, has the boss rush. This post of BareKnuckleRoo's also suggests that that version is the only one to have that change (or remnant, maybe). That version of the game still does indeed seem to be clearable ultimately, but only marginally.

A part of me wishes the boss rush were still in the JAA version. I could see it being potentially obnoxious or excessive, but the bosses do have reduced health in it, it seems; I could see it being an interesting challenge like Crime Fighters 2's.

It is good to know that the game allows for proper play to bypass some of the bosses' defenses and keep up an aggressive attack on them, too. Inspires some more faith in the game's systems - relatively simple compared to the arcade brawlers Capcom was putting out at the time, but thoroughly solid.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Maybe I am misunderstanding your comments, guys, but which version of the game has a boss rush for st. 5? All the versions I played only have the devil lady.

The UAA version played in this video from Janet, at least, has the boss rush. This post of BareKnuckleRoo's also suggests that that version is the only one to have that change (or remnant, maybe). That version of the game still does indeed seem to be clearable ultimately, but only marginally.

Yeah, as far as I know when I was testing the versions the EAA did not have the boss rush... but if I'm mistaken I apologize. The UAA version is technically clearable, but it's quite bullshit in my opinion and relies on lucky meat drops (the rarest of the health items). The most impressive playthrough I've seen is Zuq's 2-ALL run of it, as seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL5_lvB9oTY

I asked him some questions about his experience with the UAA version and he responds in detail, so check out the comment section as well!

All in all, it's not as hard as people assume it is but it's a bit unfair and you do need to be lucky to make 1CCs consistent but as long as you pick Max it's manageable. TL;DR UAA revision's reputation for being impossible/difficult is exaggerated; boss gauntlet plus count-down health is what puts most people off.

I too kinda would have liked to see the boss rush in the JAA version; their health apparently is severely reduced so it's not quite as silly as it initially looks, and it's probably the best music in the game.

Max definitely seems like he's pretty clearly the best character just on the basis of his absurd jumping attack, which is incredible for crowd control and probably gives him higher damage overall than either of the dedicated power characters.

Even if Max didn't have the "hits grounded enemies" low jump kick, he'd still be top tier cuz of the bite attack. Holding Up + Attack to do a Grab -> Bite -> Bite -> Bite -> Throw deals enough damage to kill mobs that would normally survive Grab -> Knee -> Knee -> Knee -> Throw. I think the bite's extra damage also applies to bosses too.

It's definitely unfortunately true that the average Konami arcade brawler is not great, but there are some likable ones - Simpsons (JP version of course) is solid, if unexceptional

That's one I haven't really played after experiencing the American version. I've heard the JP version has much more generous health mechanics, are there any other changes to be aware of? I'll have to give it another look.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

That zuq run is seriously impressive; it's good to see more of his content (and a shame he doesn't seem to hang around arcade communities these days). It is a bit of a shame that the run seems to come down to lucky meat drops, by his own admission, but it's cool that even that version of the game can eventually be wrangled down.

I'm not aware of any other changes to The Simpsons between regions, at least - the mechanics, controls, and enemy attacks + damage are all the same to my knowledge. The changes just seem to be the Japanese version's overhealing vs. the US version's single healthbar, the large amount of extra (usually hidden) healing items in the JP version, and some extra weapons scattered throughout the JP version, which doesn't have that much impact generally. TCRF claims that the JP release does have less aggressive enemy AI, though I'm not sure if that's really the case.

It feels to me like, in that case, the World version is probably the original version of the game and the Japanese release is a revision done to accommodate the more discerning arcade-goers of that market - something about the changes to score (World is one point per enemy / boss, JP has unique points values for all enemies) and the fact that most of the changes see items plopped down throughout the game in sometimes odd-feeling locations gives me that vibe, anyway. Regardless the Japanese version is a solid and enjoyable game - well-paced with strong presentation, just punishing enough to make some degree of strategic action important without being an arduous clear. Not on the level of Metamorphic Force or Crime Fighters 2 - or maybe Violent Storm, though I still need to give that game some time - but it's not a sloppy release like the arcade TMNTs either.

[Randorama]

Sorry guys, but somehow I forgot that the UAA version does have the boss rush. I had to try it again to discover that my memory was incorrect; apologies.

Said this, I am wondering how the loops work in each revision: JAA->1 loop, EAA->endless loops, UAA->2 loops? Or does it have to do with dip switches?
I must say that I still prefer Claude over Ban because he is a bit faster and I have a better understanding of the sprite attack's reaches and timings.
Ban could be another 1-CC attempt in the JAA version, as the bite attack is quite devastating.

Small note: during the ascending platform part on st. 6, the EAA version has a mosaic of the final boss, but the JAA and UAA (or just the UAA?) have a mosaic of the goddess.
I did not note other graphic changes, but I found the detail interesting.

Re: The Simpsons. I decided to test the various versions, and I do believe that the JAA/JP version has less aggressive enemies. This could be a splendid "grudge match", as I recall spending quite some time playing the EAA/EU version with a small group of friends (the quarter who played the TMNT games, go figure). We did 1-CC it a few times, but I never landed the clear in solo mode.

I get the impression that the JAA/JP could be 1-CC'ed with some boss practice - the drunkard (st. 4) and the Kabuki TV guy (st. 7) have somewhat odd movements/open frames, and then there is the final duo of Smithers & Mr. Burns who also require some dodging practice. Energy overhauling makes this revision otherwise easy, if long.

I am suspecting that the JAA version of Violent Storm might be similarly doable. This game's bosses are a royal pain in the neck, especially "Geld", the final boss (but the rest is really ace).

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Said this, I am wondering how the loops work in each revision: JAA->1 loop, EAA->endless loops, UAA->2 loops? Or does it have to do with dip switches?

As far as I know it's system settings/dip settings that determines it for most Konami releases. I can't remember what the settings are in JAA/EAA/UAA but I know for Moo Mesa, the AAB version is 2 loop with level select enabled by default and the UAB is infinite looping by default with level select disabled.

Note that there's still some regional changes that can't be addressed by changing the settings in some games. Again, Moo Mesa has different hitboxes on a specific enemy that makes it harder on the UAB version vs the AAB version (you can hit the enemies that duck and roll bombs at you by firing low in AAB whereas you have to jump and fire downward to hit them in UAB). The lifebar in Metamorphic Force JP vs the draining lifebar in EA/UA as well as the phoenix boss's much more aggressive diagonal spin attack in UA would be examples of this.

Small note: during the ascending platform part on st. 6, the EAA version has a mosaic of the final boss

Interesting, I didn't notice that before! I wonder if it's religious sensibility censorship or for some other reason?

[Randorama]

Roo: thanks, I was wondering if I was recalling incorrectly on loops, and indeed I was

My own conjecture on the image is that the programmers realised that a giant mosaic of the "enemy" in the final stage would have appeared a bit contradictory, to players. You're ascending to the final level of the castle in which the final boss is waiting for you. Somehow, a giant mosaic of your tutelar goddess appears in her smiling beauty, her eyes closed. By this point you may wonder: why? Are the metamorphic force and the beast kingdom perhaps old allies, now enemies because of their new allegiances to humankind?

...and so on. The version(s) with the dragon mosaic (EAA, not sure about UAA) simply give(s) the players a spoiler of the final fight to come, and appear(s) more straightforward in terms of foreshadowing/plot anticipations (aka spoilers). The first time I reached this level on the EAA version, I was expecting a giant final boss sprite partially moving outside the screen, go figure (...but I was 13, in my defence).

Re: The Simpsons. I noticed that a certain Irochi Iuchi appears in the credits, as "Irochi Iuchi_4" or something (He added a number prefix to his name, in all end credits of Konami games on which he worked). Small details aside, I am wondering if Captain Commando's st. 3 and boss were loosely inspired by this game's st. 7's second half and boss (i.e. ninja stuff, Kabuki boss with naginata).

Still, I want to practice this one more, and have another go at Violent Storm. Oh well, the week-end is close.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

I've been mainly playing Cadillacs and Dinosaurs the last few days. It's been years since I last seriously got into it, and it's been really fun to revisit.

Finally made it up to stage 7's boss on a credit, so now I'm focusing on getting the earlier parts of the game down so I can have resources going into the infamous Slisaurs fight. My main observations, currently:

-Some of these bosses are scary. The Slisaurs fight genuinely seems like a bit of a slot machine, but Morgan (st5) and Tyrog (st6) can get horribly out of hand if they get the chance to roam around. It feels like your best chance against them is to lock them down with wakeup combos as best you can (both of them have counters if you try to stand on them as they get up, but if you stand just outside their counter range, you can bypass that and jab them as they get up anyway). It makes the fights a little unpleasant, since both bosses are incredibly evasive (they spend a lot of time in the air, so most hits you land on them will end up as single hits that you can't capitalize off of with real damage), since so much of your capacity to clear the game is going to come down to whether or not the boss's flunky backup will decide to interrupt you during the loop. Given that these bosses are only properly vulnerable for extremely narrow windows of time, the random x-factor of boss backup grunts actually feels nastier here than it does in Final Fight.

And Slice (st4) is also an notoriously nasty boss, with his tremendous speed, range, damage, and unpredictability. I have beaten him without dying a decent number of times but I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect to be able to consistently no-miss the fight, unlike the bosses that come immediately after him. Bluntly, I think he's a poorly-designed fight, which bodes poorly for the stage 7 Slisaurs (which is just two copies of him, with no concessions made for their increased numbers).

-The enemy design is generally good but I've noticed some quirks upon this revisit. Most of the enemies in the game actually have the capacity to throw out quick, long-range attacks along the x-axis, which makes them feel a little homogenized. (This mainly becomes a problem when dealing with the aforementioned bosses, of course; almost any type - and therefore, every grunt - has the capacity to disrupt you, so you can't just prioritize problematic types to get rid of.) They have oddly passive AI too - unlike something like Final Fight, enemies will often mill around, then suddenly attack in quick bursts. This sounds generous, but in practice it just makes it hard to strategize, since - when in situations where you really can't afford to spend time clearing out all enemies - you don't have a good idea which grunts you can afford to just walk around and which ones you need to proactively eliminate.

-I've been rolling with Mess just for his high damage and his throws, which aren't quite Haggar or Schafer-tier but are still very aesthetically satisfying. (It helps that his throw range helps with boss loops too.) Mustapha seems like the overall strongest character - or at least the easiest to use - but his gameplan seems so centered around his dash attack that I can't really bring myself to switch over to him. Not a pride thing, I just don't particularly want to play a difficult hour-long game that ends up largely being about a single attack. But depending on how things go with the Slisaurs fight, I might end up being pushed to swap lol.

One of my favorite Capcom arcade brawlers still, I think. It has some awkward elements but the core action is extremely strong.

-

I also played a bit of King of Dragons on the side and ended up clearing it just because the wizard is such a powerful, oddly-balanced character. Very fun game. Incredibly simple compared to Capcom's other arcade offerings, but it's solid and very pleasant - enemy design is good, with the grace i-frames enemies get after taking hits and the counter-attacks they like to follow up with making even grunt enemy fights feel dangerous and like they require proper rhythm and spacing to take care of, even though the combat is generally not difficult.

[Randorama]

Sir IlP:

King of the Dragons is a nice little game. I always felt that it was Capcom trying to be nice to players (especially outside Japan), by giving them a title that did not require remarkable skills for the clear/1-CC. The melee characters are harder to use than the Wizard and the Elf, but the game is honestly easy anyway. This is a game I like to play every once in a while, when I need a bit of self-encouragement ("Today sucked, but at least I did my bed and 1-CC'ed a game!").

Cadillacs and Dinosaurs is an interesting game. Capcom created interesting games with the Marvel license, but this one is a license from Xenozoic tales, a perhaps obscure but beautiful American comic from Mark D. Schultz (picture pulp fiction + post-apocalypse and ecological themes + hot babes and Cadillacs, of course). I loved it deeply, back in the day.

Said this, I know that this game revolves around mastering the dash attacks along the x-axis, and by the time you get to Slice, you must be able to manipulate enemies' reactions with the proper running lines. It's one of those case in which the programmers really wanted players away from the cab unless they learnt the game mechanics, so I always felt that it is an unsurmountable, cheap boss if players do not approach it the intended way. The slisaurs are this x3, because the zakus become particularly annoying during this fight.

I find it meaningful that the final boss is not that difficult, once you know the openings for the combos (but the damage it handles is devastating). Stages are not that difficult once you learn how to handle Walter (i.e. the st. 1 boss) and know when to dash.

I feel that one day I will start again a grudge match that is almost 30 years old, and either 1-CC this title or move to a deserted island to atone for my sins, or something.

To be honest, I generally believe that all Capcom belt scrollers have cheap boss fights, but the tryptic of this title, Captain Commando and Knights of the Round easily take the top spot. I do not exaggerate by saying that half of their boss fights in bmups were designed to just kill off players, with next to zero concerns on balance (or: "you either learn the bosses or you GTFO"). Personally I believe that Captain Commando is their worst offender, though: st. 4 and final boss are absolutely infuriating, as they revolve around cheap tricks based on the dash attack (or death).

It's funny how Capcom also released The Punisher in 1993, which is their other easy-peasy belt scroller (but less than King of the Dragons).

...aaand a final comment.

The Simpsons is an easy game. I think that I need a few more credits to master the final duo of Mr. Burns and Smithers, but that's pretty much about it (JAA/JP version).

I also tried out Violent Storm and it seems that Konami did not make any big changes among versions. There are something like 8 versions and I tried 3 of them, though. Now, this one also follows the Capcom path when it comes to bosses, but to a generally less infuriating level (each boss has a specific opening to be exploited).

EDIT:

Jus for fun, I tried a JAA Metamorphic Force credit with Ban, and I ended up 1-LC'ing the game. Talk about easy!

[Leandro]

Mustapha seems like the overall strongest character - or at least the easiest to use - but his gameplan seems so centered around his dash attack that I can't really bring myself to switch over to him. Not a pride thing, I just don't particularly want to play a difficult hour-long game that ends up largely being about a single attack. But depending on how things go with the Slisaurs fight, I might end up being pushed to swap lol.

Mustapha dash attack is only vital in the Slice and Slisaurs fight. Against most enemies, his best string is default combo holding up or down to throw, and cancel the throw into that down+up attack. Amazing range on his jab and ability to corner trap a lof of annoying enemies (and stg 6 boss) off screen. Hardly a one trick pony character, there's no need to abuse drop kick 24/7, but yeah it's godly.

If you insist on Mess, know that Desperation Move (A+B) gives generous invincible frames even after the move ends. So you can actually whiff AB, run up to a Slisaur knifing you up and grab them. Of course you will need to space yourself perfectly to do this, which is easier said than done. This is feasible with every character except Mustapha, cause his Vertical Tatsu animation is too lenghty.

Cadillacs is my favorite bare handed beat'em up. My only regret is that I've never got the clear with Hannah Dundee and didn't insist more on it. Never got past the Slisaurs with her. I've 1cced the game with the other 3 characters though.

I would recommend a first clear with Mustapha. Just like people recommend Lancelot for a first Knights of the Round clear. Mess destroys the game overall, but he has a bad match up against the Slisaurs, needing a bit more experience with their patterns to do well. I think even Jack has a more favourable time against them.
When you make to the last stage, GG. The 1cc is guaranteed. Just enjoy the music and take the stage slowly.

[Gamer707b]

Just started playing Guardian Heroes on Saturn for the first time today. I know, I'm super late to the party. It's not your traditional beat em up with it's gameplay and story options that's for sure, but, so far, I'm digging it. I can see myself replaying the heck outa this. Curious to hear others' thoughts here on GH.

[Randorama]

Does anyone have a full list of bmups from Konami?

I know of:

1. Crime Fighters (1989)
2. TMNT (1989)
3. The Simpsons (1991)
4. Crime Fighters II/Vendetta (1991)
5. TMNT II: Turtles in Time (1991)
6. Asterix (1992)
7. X-Men (1992)
8. Metamorphic Force (1993)
9. Violent Storm (1993)

I have been playing N.3 and N. 7 on the list and I should 1-CC them soon, I guess. I would then need to 1-CC N.6 and N.9 to apparently have the full-set and perhaps win an "unofficial Kuso-player, bmups version" or something.

Anyone interested in a write-up of my soon-to-come 1-CC's, by the way? I promise that I will add a reference to Magneto's "I am the master of magnet!" taunt in X-Men.

EDIT:

I just 1-LC'ed The Simpsons (JAA, btw) by simply switching to Lisa from Bart and playing it as safe as possible. Mr. Burns is actually an easy final boss, since all forms except the last one have an exploit that allows players to keep hitting him without any retaliation. The "extra energy" mechanic does make the game really easy, though. Ah, there goes another 31-years old grudge. 2022 is shaping up to be a great gaming year, for me.

[BrianC]

Does anyone have a full list of bmups from Konami?

I know of:

1. Crime Fighters (1989)
2. TMNT (1989)
3. The Simpsons (1991)
4. Crime Fighters II/Vendetta (1991)
5. TMNT II: Turtles in Time (1991)
6. Asterix (1992)
7. X-Men (1992)
8. Metamorphic Force (1993)
9. Violent Storm (1993)

Does Rollergames AC count? Based on a roller derby competition TV show, but still has beat 'em up elements. If you include console releases, there's also Batman Returns SNES, Batman Returns NES, TMNT II/3 NES, Hyperstone Heist Genesis, and Rollergames NES (different from AC version). The console TMNT ports also differ a bit from the AC versions.