Neverland (now-defunct company)

[Obiwanshinobi]

So the Rune Factory series turned out to be their swansong. I need someplace to ask if anyone could recommend CIMA: The Enemy, as well as whether anybody's got anything favourable to say about any other games by the company best known for Lufia.
For instance, just how playable Chaos Seed on Saturn is when you can't read Japanese?

[BulletMagnet]

I only played a little of Cima, and recall that while the concept was fairly solid the ally AI (whom you had to protect) could be dense, and sitting in front of monster lairs hacking away until your townspeople scurried past could get repetitive. If you're unsure you could always emulate it.

Supposedly the Shining Force hack-and-slash offshoots they did for Sega weren't too bad if that's the sort of game you're looking for (and the DS action-y Lufia isn't too badly regarded either, though not without misgivings), but the little I played of their strategy stuff struck me as cluttered (though take that with a grain of salt, as I'm not exactly known for my strategic acumen).

[Obiwanshinobi]

Pirating some CIMA sounds like a sound plan before shelling out indeed.
From what little I played, Record of Lodoss War (DC) looks a lot like Diablo, but there is no co-op and I think the game's closer to action-adventure like Ys at heart. English voice acting doesn't blow too hard.

[GSK]

I can't speak for Chaos Seed on Saturn, but I can tell you that an English translation patch for the SFC version was released a couple weeks ago.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Lufia: The Legend Returns made my day the other day. It's a very traditional jRPG disguised as something not-so-orthodox, but effectively plays like a jRPG all the same.
For instance, despite smooth screen-scrolling and character movement, the exploration is all tile-based (feels like input lag). As if they wanted to make it all FPP, but opted for something more fashionable at the time (apparently it was originally meant to be a PlayStation game).
I even enjoy the writing. It's not unusual to save the world as a kid in jRPGs, but the banter characters exchange here is particulary child-like, in a good way. The game's got some flair.
Then there are pretty detailed graphics for GBC and the music.

[BryanM]

Banter's always been pretty decent.

"My love is my sword!"
"If you ask me, you should stay away from thoughts like that..."

An LP of The Legend Returns still makes me giggle at his description of Wain's attempt of convincing what's her face to continue to live as "the most Japanese thing ever." Which was telling her she had to live so she could get better at her job.

I dunno what was up with The Ruins of Lore. It's always difficult to articulate why one inanimate object has a soul, and another doesn't..

[Obiwanshinobi]

The Ruins of Lore isn't by Neverland. Doesn't really explain the soul thing, but says something.
Some Advent of Cardice English voice acting is among the best I heard in games. That lady in FMVs... I can't seem to find those on YouTube, but hot damn.

[GSK]

Lufia GBC was actually developed by Natsume, just so you know. The dungeons are horrible but I like the battle system and it would have been nice to see it applied to a sequel with a more traditional world/structure.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Wikipedia says "Developer(s): Neverland, Natsume" and I recall seeing Neverland logo when it boots. Apparently Nihon-Flex worked on it initially.

[GSK]

Nihon-Flex was to be the JP publisher for two Lufia/Estopolis games that were never released, one for PSX and one for GBC, but they went bankrupt long before either game was completed. It is said that Legend Returns uses assets from the scrapped GBC game (which in turn was a demake of the cancelled PSX game) but I was told that there were barely any assets to recycle. I know the final game was definitely developed by Natsume, at least.

[Obiwanshinobi]

The title screen says literally "Developed by Neverland Co." (US version here).

[GSK]

I've spoken to Natsume dudes who told me they made it, I don't know what else to tell you.

It was rumoured that the two cancelled games weren't Neverland jobs, either, but I don't know who was supposed to have made them. (tri-Ace was the name thrown around back in the day, but I don't think there was ever any truth to that.)

[Obiwanshinobi]

I read in some interview that Natsume worked on some Neverland game, but that doesn't mean the former did all the job.

[GSK]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Natsume did the whole thing, just that the actual game structure/systems and development was theirs. The scenario, music, monster design etc came from Neverland but to what extent is unclear... I got the impression that it was mostly salvaged from plans from the other games and that Neverland pretty much just dumped it on 'em and left them to their own devices. (I suppose we could just ask the old Neverland crew, now that the studio is no more.)

It was recently revealed that the announced Lufia MD barely existed and was pretty much just a scam by some US company who promised it to Taito but never intended to actually make it.

[Despatche]

music should be neverland. their main composer is credited and iirc he also usually does programming. sounds fairly different from his sfc work, but it doesn't sound like any natsume composers either.

i didn't know neverland did rune factory, i thought that was all... well, whoever actually does harvest moon. i don't really know about that series's development on a game to game basis.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Whoever made most of Lufia: The Legend Returns, it seems to share at least one dialogues writer with CIMA: The Enemy. Videogame writing at its finest, never trying too hard. Humbles the likes of Disgaea for my money. The cart I eventually got doesn't keep savestates, so I've yet to try actually playing it, but the opening reminds me of BoFIII.

[cj iwakura]

I loved CIMA, had no idea they made it.

[BryanM]

Put many hours into Chaos Seed. (It's englishified now.) Got frustrated and rage quit when I died after a boss while trying to walk back to my cave to save.

It has a lot going on for it, for being an experimental SNES RTS dungeon'em up. I can't be too bitchy over it, because it isn't just a reskin of the same game ten thousand times like the endless Street Fighter, DOOM, Dragon Quest, Nethack, Gradius, etc clones. If you play this game, you'll probably feel like you're playing a new game finally.

But experimental it definitely is. Each scenario takes hours to get through. The action RPG combat I would call tedious. The base building energy transfer requiring making units and then giving them patrol routes, to upgrade and feed their constant hunger I would call irritating. The feng shui, ignorable. (Which is a good thing!)

The traditional chinese animal motif is very cute, and not something you usually see pushed this hard. Watching the little SNES AI's fighting each other very slowly and awkwardly is adorable. The towns are quite good looking by SNES JRPG standards (animated little birds and more), and the quippy dialogue from the Lufia series is in full effect.

There's a core of a really good game in there, which could have been dug out if only they had the chance to make new iterations, and change some stuff drastically.

I'm unfortunately coming around to accept that the dungeon theme isn't the best for base-heavy RTS games. You can get a similar effect using walled off building complexes instead of rooms, like a gated apartment complex with two entrances and exits. That's functionally the same thing as a dungeon barracks room, but you can plausibly have things like trees and swimming pools and other stuff to look at that isn't dirt and bricks.

[GaijinPunch]

Put many hours into Chaos Seed. (It's englishified now.) Got frustrated and rage quit when I died after a boss while trying to walk back to my cave to save.

SFC/SNES or Saturn? I'd asume the former for a lot of reasons, also based on the rest of your post I'm now reading.. That was always in a stack of RPGs I wanted to try but didn't have the time (which is like 99% of them).

So are you going to finish it?

[BryanM]

SFC, ye.

I plan on bailing; there are so many other distractions on the plate for my time, including like half a dozen games I'm in the middle of and also not currently playing. It took me like five years to complete Persona 3, it'll probably take me eight in total to beat P4. It makes me a little sad, since I would have loved those games if I had played them when they had came out.

But mostly because I feel like I've already seen everything the game has to offer. I don't regret playing it and I don't regret being done before reaching the final final credits, 12+ hours was plenty. I'd sooner pick Rune Factory 4 back up instead, I think.

[GaijinPunch]

When I'm done I'm done. I played a few PC-Engine RPGs where I got to the very end but then totally stuck - and with almost zero help on the internet. Startling Odyssey comes to mind. Pretty sure I didn't play the second but... getting old.

[m.sniffles.esq]

I still think Record of Lodoss is the best RPG on the Dreamcast.
What I initially thought was a Diablo clone, is actually a Diablo improvement.

I did play the first of their PS2 Shining Force hack and slashers (Neo) annnnnd... I wasn't a fan. I'm all for loot hunting, but it felt more like a trash management sim. HOWEVER rumor has it that the second (Exa) greatly improved things (although, by the time I found out about it, my PS2 was long gone)