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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:40 pm 


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Herr Schatten wrote:
BIL wrote:
(no idea how the PCE conversion [of Tiger Road] came out... Side Arms makes me optimistic, at least).

I might be mistaken, but I think the PCE game is actually a sequel rather than a conversion.


Holy shit :shock: You're right, I'd no idea. Interesting... I knew about Son Son 2, which is apparently more of a Black Tiger pseudo-sequel, but not this.

TBH Side Arms is pretty different too, with the weapon-switching mechanic, and the swapping of the PCB's blah st1 BGM for one of the most stoically adrenalising opening tracks of the whole damn genre. Rockin' gallantry. You know I'm all about those 16bit Arcade Imperfects. :mrgreen:

---

EDIT: per Famitsu, Arcade Archives: CRIME FIGHTERS out tomorrow! Image

Image

Looks like it includes the Japan 2P (Lifebars! YEEE) and US 4P (TIMER?! NAWWW) versions, at the least.

Image

I sure hope they're not gonna hack the first stage's DOWNTOWN INSURANCE billboard, so that it's already fallen when you arrive, or some shit! That would be a spot of HAM-HAM HEARTBREAK! (you magnificent twats!)

IDGAF @ TEH BOOBAGE, I just want to point and laugh at neopuritans. Image I was too young for the first wave! Image
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:41 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
I bought a Tiger Road PCB years ago when these things were a dime a dozen, and it really annoyed me. Felt to me like the first boss was unbeatable if you didn't get the right weapon powerup earlier in the stage and held on to it?

You may be right. I believe at least you need a powered-up weapon to make it through, since winning that fight is all about having a weapon with good range. I would check, but I find it difficult enough to reach that boss in the first place, that flying section gives me a lot of trouble.

Hopefully, Capcom delivers a "decent" port of this gem one day. I really want you guys to play this, but not as long as BIL's copy of Shun lays somewhere collecting dust, probably. :wink:


Last edited by Searchlike on Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:47 pm 


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Herr Schatten wrote:
I might be mistaken, but I think the PCE game is actually a sequel rather than a conversion.

Whaaaaat? How have I missed this.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:10 pm 


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Searchlike wrote:
Hopefully, Capcom delivers a "decent" port of this gem one day. I really want you guys to play this, but not as long as BIL's copy of Shun lays somewhere collecting dust, probably. :wink:


Not a problem, it's still factory sealed :oops: :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:16 pm 


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BIL wrote:
Not a problem, it's still factory sealed :oops: :lol:


Ouch... I think I'm going to make it my forum's goal to make you play it, or at least open it...


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:20 pm 


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Oh no, I'll get around to it this summer for sure. That's (only!) the second BIRUFORD GUARANTEE Image Image I've made this month! The first is Bloodborne, which has ALSO resided in a non-reactive polypropylene storage trunk for the past seven years! Too many shitposts, that's my problem. :oops: :cool:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:23 pm 


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Hahah, ok! It's just as good as the first one, I think. I'll be happy to share some wisdom if you ever need it. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:50 am 


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Oh heck no. :o While the MOST HARAAM posters are all present and correct - Okinawa's Tourism Board must be delighted! Image - ACA Crime Fighters mildly censored my boy GLENN HUGHES-KUN, the Hard Gay Thugger. He's missing frames from his taunt and grapple, so now instead of humping, he just kinda puts himself out there as an immovable effigy of Hard Gayness. Although tbh, Glenn's quite the character even without his famous gyrations, as these guys found out!

Spoiler: show
Image

Wonder how he'll fare in a potential ACA Crime Fighters 2. Should've had his own game, ffs.

Image

Interested to see that the lifebar/life-digit divide apparently wasn't regional. ACA includes Japan and International versions, in their 2P and 4P variants. 2Ps have lifebars, 4Ps have digits. Guess it was to balance out a four-man onslaught? There are still stark differences between the JP and IN 2P revs, however. There's the gun, for starters. JP has unlimited weak shots, IN has a few hard hits. I prefer the latter, tbh. JP gun makes demolishing stages and bosses a little too leisurely, even as its puny paps dint the savagely hard-hitting style. If my fists, feet, elbows and knees - I love this game's Muay Thai aspect! YOSHAAA! - are crushing bodies this violently, I expect a firearm to REALLY let em know what time it is Image

However, the most critical difference is JP/2P's dedicated Back Kick button. In the other three revs, the kick seems proximity-triggered... I'm not sure how to execute without taking damage first. A shame, as it's an excellently leavening addition - its range allows much-needed DD2esque pokes, while its sparing i-frames give a welcome modicum of flex to a washboard-stiff brawler.

I-frames slipped a couple of nasty backstabs before he finally tagged me - but by then, Drago-kun was dead, and he was FUCC Image
Spoiler: show
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Works particularly well on big guys who aggressively invade your space.
Spoiler: show
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Got some Aerts vs Sapp goin' on. Image
Spoiler: show
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Liking this game a lot. The hit detection can be annoying - if consistent - but I'm shutting enemies down reliably with basic off-axis techniques, and the Back Kick allows some nice improv. Biggest adjustment I had to make is the heavy startup/recovery on attacks. Not only do things take a while to come out, but you can't sidestep clear immediately after a whiff. The knife, in particular, seems to demand especially proactive use - long startup, long cooldown, with a handful of i-frames between.

Best feature is the bloodening sense of learned violence in your attacks. Striking combos have a pitch-perfect balance of articulation and blunt purpose, the vicious followup kickings to floored foes exponentially moreso. Unlike many combat games, enemies aren't "woken up" by damage - you're encouraged to pounce on the fallen wherever you can, delivering fatal shoeings even as their comrades circle in.

I've never seen CF's approach to critically damaged enemies before, and I'm not surprised. It's weird. :lol: When they're at death's door, they won't be able to attack further, and will instead just bumble into you like boxers in a clinch.

A flesh wound and two/three shoes to the nuts later, we are very happy together Image
Spoiler: show
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There's no visual indicator they're in this state, but it gets fairly easy to tell with experience. While Datsugoku's stricken are auto-targeted for shattering KOs (one of that vexing game's high points), CF's are sitting ducks for a final bludgeoning. Makes me suspect the designers just wanted players to enjoy those combos, haha.

While Sengoku 2 surprised me with an excellently crisp zone n' slash, I was expecting CF to be a little grimy ala Technos. In some ways, it handles better than their 80s canon - P/K combos bite down hard, albeit not with the sublime touch of Ninja Gaiden's wheeling demolitions. Not as excellent as Tecmo's game (for my money, the best 80s brawler hands-down, and competitive with a good chunk of the 90s, too), but well within Technos orbit, and miles beyond irritating misstep Datsugoku.

Even by the stratospheric standards of Konami's late-80s arcade OSTs, this one is a treasure. Crunchy and fiery with razor hooks on every track. Image Kenichi "Bloody Tears" Matsubara showed a consistent ear for towering yet propulsively hooky action BGM. Surprised to learn Konami art luminary SHUZILOW_HA worked on this! Blimey it's grim. Although, the cheeky humour is straight outta his Parodius (less so Twinbee).

Spoiler: show
Image

You did see the homeless men sleeping in the garbage, right Bruce? Did you think you weren't gonna get shot in the face out here? :o Almost reminds me of Polish brawler export FRANKO: THE CRAZY REVENGE! Not quite as rugged as Franko, obviously. Those ex-Soviet bloc cats done seen SOME shit. :shock:
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Last edited by BIL on Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:23 am 


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Hmm I remember having some fun with this on MAME, but tossing it aside the moment I played the sequel. One for the 'if on sale' pile I think, along with Guerilla War.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:40 pm 


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Searchlike wrote:
I've been playing some Tiger Road lately [...] I've finally managed to 1CC the first stage


lol sounds about right. I remember being shocked by how mean that game was, when I first played it a few years back. It makes Makaimura look like a Kirby game :lol: I don't think I ever got very far past the second boss, and that was after many hours put into it. I played it again for an hour yesterday after seeing it in this thread, and I ended up limping to the first boss on 1 credit before getting completely bodied lol. I don't see any no-damage clears for Tiger Road on YouTube, so I wonder if it's even possible (for mere humans)... Still, it's hard not to be impressed by this game, all of the effort that was put into it, and all of the variety it offers, even if it's not one of my personal favorites.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:44 pm 


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It's a brutal game, I'm very thankful for the stage select option. It helps a lot knowing what to expect in the distant future when I'm somewhat decent at it and can beat that first level consistently, if only psychologically. I've already put it in my "Games I Want to 1CC" bag, I know what it entails, but it's just random enough that I don't think it'll ever get boring.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:20 pm 


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Seems Crime Fighters' ground attack was snuck in by a programmer on their own initiative, with Shuzilow contributing its sprites because he liked the idea. I don't think CF would be nearly as enjoyable (and certainly not as distinctive) without those pricelessly gritty shoeings. Currently hitting stage 6 on a credit - it's been a blast taking out dangerous foes in short order, staying just ahead of the crowd. You can get seriously hosed if you're not careful, particularly if your target recovers just as a backstabber piles in. But juggling offense and defense is the essence of brawling. :cool:

I always find stories like this interesting, what with this thread having been started over a programming error the director ended up liking the effect of (so much it was brought back not twice but thrice). Makes me wonder how many entire genres have similar origins. :mrgreen:

Loop 1 Ending spoilers - only this genre could make a human trafficking bust so joyful Image

The combo choreography is so damn satisfying Image
Spoiler: show
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Spoiler: show
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^^^ CHOP THE KNEE Image

Haven't enjoyed beater frames this much since Muneki "Kicking Geek" Ebinuma's Return of Double Dragon. Image

Image Image

HELL NAWWW DATS GOTTA HOIT (`ω´メ)

Spoiler: show
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First beater to give me them Kunio vibes. Image DRIVE THE KNEE IN LIKE A SPEAR Image
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:32 am 


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Searchlike wrote:
It's a brutal game, I'm very thankful for the stage select option. It helps a lot knowing what to expect in the distant future when I'm somewhat decent at it and can beat that first level consistently, if only psychologically. I've already put it in my "Games I Want to 1CC" bag, I know what it entails, but it's just random enough that I don't think it'll ever get boring.


The version with the stage select is the US version, I believe, and as far as I can tell it's a bastardization. The localizers slowed down the player character's walk speed, so that in order to gain your full movement speed you have to jump, and although I never spent enough time with this version to find out, I'm sure there are other changes as well. That nerf is enough to break the game by itself, anyway; it would make situations like the first boss completely impossible (as opposed to just borderline impossible). This all confused me when I first played the game, since this isn't mentioned anywhere on the Internet... Point is, JP Tora he no Michi is the way to go, not US Tiger Road, and I should have clarified this earlier. (Either that, or MAME and FB Alpha are fucked up.)


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:04 am 


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SriK wrote:
The version with the stage select is the US version, I believe, and as far as I can tell it's a bastardization. The localizers slowed down the player character's walk speed, so that in order to gain your full movement speed you have to jump, and although I never spent enough time with this version to find out, I'm sure there are other changes as well. That nerf is enough to break the game by itself, anyway; it would make situations like the first boss completely impossible (as opposed to just borderline impossible). This all confused me when I first played the game, since this isn't mentioned anywhere on the Internet... Point is, JP Tora he no Michi is the way to go, not US Tiger Road, and I should have clarified this earlier. (Either that, or MAME and FB Alpha are fucked up.)

I should have known better, I always try to go for the Japanese version because of dumb stuff like that. Thanks a bunch for the tip, I'm never touching that thing again and Tora e no Michi sounds way cooler anyway. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:46 am 


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Ah, who am I kidding? Saw BiL's writeup and picked up Crime Fighters anyways, finding it surprisingly enjoyable. It's got that satisfying Technos 'grit', in fact it does remind me of a slightly more refined DD2; a lot of the tactics from that game carry over pretty well here, including plentiful use of the back kick. I'm not to keen on the weapons other than the bat, the knife takes a little too long to activate, and the gun feels more lie a Nerf rifle. Only real issue so far is that stomping downed enemies occasionally feels hit and miss. The sounds is excellent, meaty slaps and grounns and a banger of a soundtrack. Only played three/four credits, but quite impressed so far. Game Over at the same place every time though - ST3 with the gunman and red-pants charging dude who seems to flatten me no matter which move I use. Leaderboards are pretty sparse on Switch though sadly - I'm in the top thirty already!
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:31 pm 


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I picked up Crime Fighters yesterday as well and am pleasantly surprised at how fun it is after you get the hang of it. As others mentioned the soundtrack is great and matches the game's pace pretty well, and there is just something really satisfying about kicking/finishing someone when they are on the ground after they got some cheap shots in on you earlier.

Marc wrote:
I'm not to keen on the weapons other than the bat, the knife takes a little too long to activate, and the gun feels more lie a Nerf rifle.


Bat > Knife without a doubt. I did find that if you poke/hit-confirm the weaker enemies with your kick first if gives you enough of a frame advantage to follow up with a knife-stab though.

Even though the gun in the JP versions is weaker (and unlimited) I am still struggling to find ways to get through the later levels without depending on it.

Marc wrote:
Only real issue so far is that stomping downed enemies occasionally feels hit and miss.


100% agree. IMO, that and the occasional awkward AI positioning are what's holding this game back from being considered a top notch beat 'em up.

Marc wrote:
Leaderboards are pretty sparse on Switch though sadly - I'm in the top thirty already!


Yeah I noticed that too, I think you are ahead of me as I recall my highscore so far only being 40'ish points. Going to try to increase that later today. In the meantime though I have noticed a lot of Japanese names filling up the boards so I don't think it will be sparse for long. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:40 pm 


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Thought you'd like it Marc, I know you're into the curbstomping Technos school. :cool:

Having gotten a decent picture of the first loop... while stages 7 (waterfront) and 8 (warehouse) are undoubtedly the toughest, it's stage 4 (underpass) that's the most annoying, on account of those foregrounded girders. Fun getting everyone ran over at the start, but yeah, not great. Easy enough once you know the enemy waves, it's mostly scrubby Mohawks and Switchblades.

Kung Fu guys seem the individually deadliest regular by some margin, with their tendency to evade/counter. Got smacked around a bit in their debut, stage 5 (rooftops). I've had the most success flooring them with a flying kick, then kicking the living shit out of them. Unbelievable aesthetic. :twisted:

For Mohawks, the staple off-axis PPP seems to do 'em (execute it a tick early, so they walk smack into its active frames). Floor 'em with a flying kick, if they've got a pipe. Greasers can be PPPd, too, though they tend to take a followup kicking. Switchblades have nasty reach, but are easily outranged by Back Kick and dispatched with a shoeing.

The blonde Ivan Drago guys, whose throw looks/sounds so rad I almost don't mind getting caught by it, are easily shut down by BK combo. Tough enough to take a couple knockdowns+shoeings. Junkyard Dog (green) much the same. JD (red) is a "just shoot the fucker" case currently. :lol: Can be off-axis PPPd, but it's a little risky for my liking with his grapple.

Glenn Hughes-kun, The Hard Gay Thugger, is a true individual. Hyper Armours through your attacks with his Hard Gayness, but can't stop posing due to same. Knives are his kryptonite, but absent that, he's pretty easy to stay ahead of on account of his irrepressible Leatherman bravado!

His counterpart, the Dominatrix, I can't quite recall how I deal with. Seems very punchable for a bigger enemy, and great googly moogly her damage frame is hilarious. :mrgreen: Angry Dogs are a problem in st7, currently. Seems you just punch the fuckers as they leap, Green Beret-style, but it gets complicated with other enemies about. Horny Dog is a good boy and gay AF, I'm glad he evaded the censors!

Shooters are pretty self-explanatory, trickiest thing is snatching their gun post-mortem.

All of the bosses, besides the gimmicky first, seem vulnerable to classic DD1-style outboxing, though I'm nowhere near consistent at 7 (army knife) and 8 (bodyguard).

Something I've found, re: weapons - they're practically momentum-boosters on par with Ikari's tanks. The gun will demolish anything, provided you keep your distance (don't go for downshots, they look diabolically cool but if they survive you're SOL). Even a knife will speed up boss takedowns dramatically, though. I wish the pipe wasn't so rare, it's fun and makes an awesomely grim *thud* as it connects.

Just like Double Dragon I & II, you're given carte blanche WRT enemy spawning - you can make life dramatically easier or harder, depending on how far you scroll the screen. I suspect that'll help with st7's dogs, I was mostly just credit-feeding and seeing what was up ahead by that point.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:20 pm 


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Man, haven't posted in a while.
Got interested by Crime Fighters as well so I'm following along and mostly enjoying it too.

BIL wrote:
Seems Crime Fighters' ground attack was snuck in by a programmer on their own initiative, with Shuzilow contributing its sprites because he liked the idea. I don't think CF would be nearly as enjoyable (and certainly not as distinctive) without those pricelessly gritty shoeings. Currently hitting stage 6 on a credit - it's been a blast taking out dangerous foes in short order, staying just ahead of the crowd. You can get seriously hosed if you're not careful, particularly if your target recovers just as a backstabber piles in. But juggling offense and defense is the essence of brawling.


Always a joy to see a game turn out better by passionate developers. :)

You folks said it all -- pretty sweet Technos-style beat-em-up. It feels like a mix of Double Dragon & Kunio. The punch+kick+back-attack are very DD, and the kicking downed enemies mechanic is like a leaner version of Kunio's (and Combatribes') mounting strikes. Also, unlike in DD, the back-attack doesn't seem to trivialize the game. I only wish you could chuck enemies to their doom.

At first I thought the hit detection was a little iffy, but I think it's just that the z-plane's range is a tad too strict; you have to be almost lined up with the enemies to hit them (including when using weapons).

I'm still unsure of how you grab enemies; it mostly seems to happen when kicking while close to them, but it might happen by moving towards them after they flinch from taking the kick. Doesn't seem very reliable so far, and reminds me of (I think) DD1FC.

Same with the jump kick; doesn't seem to work very well. In Double Dragon you also miss them a lot, but at least enemies duck so you know you are performing them correctly whereas here, there is no way to tell. I'm guessing the game is also just strict as to when the kick has to connect (which kinda reminds me of Yie Ar Kung-Fu).

The lack of i-frames on wake up can also occasionally be a pain in the ass. I've lost nearly a whole life to stage 7's boss due to his fast slashes giving me no time to move away.

There are also some nice details (these are the only ones I stumbled upon so far; there are probably more):

  • You occasionally get hit in the nuts (with a suitable sound effect) and your character skips around a bit.
  • Getting hit by the "Are you covered?" billboard will flatten you.
  • On the 3rd stage, there's a girl standing at the entrance of a strip club; if you approach her, she will go inside and a dude/bouncer will close the establishment's door on you and flatten you against the wall.
  • On the 5th stage, touching the illuminated billboard will electrocute you.

BIL wrote:
Haven't enjoyed beater frames this much since Muneki "Kicking Geek" Ebinuma's Return of Double Dragon.


I still prefer RODD in this regard. :)
Also, Razor Ramon Hard Gay Arcade Edition™'s hip thrust (and loving embrace) is amazing. :lol:

I'll play it more over the weekend and will probably post more then.

EDIT:

Jesus, stages 7/8 are ball busters. :shock:

I hadn't noticed because it didn't happen to me before but both the electrifying billboard and the strip club thingies can happen naturally by having one of those blonde dudes slam you against the background.
The getting hit in the nuts seems to happen when one of the Mohawk enemies grabs and hits you.

Also found another one: the lips poster in stage 6 will lick you if you get close.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:55 am 


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Hey, good to see you! :smile:

__SKYe wrote:
At first I thought the hit detection was a little iffy, but I think it's just that the z-plane's range is a tad too strict; you have to be almost lined up with the enemies to hit them (including when using weapons).


Same - stuff connects consistently for me, it's just a bit over-strict. The story of even the best 80s brawlers, pretty much (with the notable exception of AC Ninja Gaiden, a remarkably smooth operator)

Quote:
I'm still unsure of how you grab enemies; it mostly seems to happen when kicking while close to them, but it might happen by moving towards them after they flinch from taking the kick. Doesn't seem very reliable so far, and reminds me of (I think) DD1FC.


I get throws semi-consistently by mashing PPP while holding forward - doing the same with KKK tends to produce a Kunio-styled knee flurry, followed by a knee to the nuts ("ding!")... which doesn't knock down, so I quickly avoided it. (I'm terribly amused to find that sound effect in a game far pre-dating AKI's classic N64 wrestlers!)

DD1FC is exactly the comparison I'd make, now you mention it. A bittersweet likeness! Image Whatever one thinks of Final Fight, its ultra-reliable mechanics were a revelation for this genre. All love to the 80s AC/console beaters, still. The combination of volatility and bone-crushing meanness is compelling in its own way. :mrgreen: Image

Quote:
Same with the jump kick; doesn't seem to work very well. In Double Dragon you also miss them a lot, but at least enemies duck so you know you are performing them correctly whereas here, there is no way to tell. I'm guessing the game is also just strict as to when the kick has to connect (which kinda reminds me of Yie Ar Kung-Fu).


It seems very picky on range, with the descending point of the arc being key - I'm consistently nailing Kung Fus and Pipe Mohawks with it from this range:

(floor markings quite incidental, but welcome!)
Spoiler: show
Image

^ SOP: KNOCK HIM DOWN + KICK HIS NUTS Image


(The Theme Of Crime Fighters feat Uncle Ruckus ♫)

(Worth noting that certain enemies, like Junkyard Dogs and Dolphs, will catch you out of jumpkicks - CF seems like the sort of game where certain exotic moves just aren't viable VS certain foes, while key to taking down others)

My off-axis BK i-framed through his strike, though he'll just as likely dodge/counter... at least when fresh. I almost wonder if enemies become less combo-resistant as their HP drops. Bosses seem to go out in flurries, though they tend to be so goddamn dangerous, I don't usually try outside of experimentation. Checked for clips of Kung-Fu takedowns, and found this one of NIGHTMARE KILLER (st5 boss)'s personal guard eating it hard and raw Image Off-axis BK into PPP:

Spoiler: show
Image


Something I really appreciate here - just like DD2AC, you can pivot and Back Kick instantaneously, to the point an observer might not know you're turning at all. Coming in from DD2FC, where pivoting too instantly will confuse the game and cause you to whiff in the opposite direction, it feels AMAZIN Image

Not that DD2FC isn't a generally well-behaved game. Is all about finding the EDGE OF LIMITS though Image

Quote:
The lack of i-frames on wake up can also occasionally be a pain in the ass. I've lost nearly a whole life to stage 7's boss due to his fast slashes giving me no time to move away.


He's a real son of a bitch. >_< Though I kinda like the aesthetic synergy with your own ground attacks - getting knocked down without backup is never a good thing in this cruel world!

Incidentally, I didn't realise normal enemies (at least Switchblades) can actually kick you while you're down, too. Was trying to see if st5's billboard actually does damage, cheeky bugger interrupted my experiment :evil: Already knew KungFus can stomp your spine, holy fuck this game's martial arts X brawling nexus is on point.

Spoiler: show
[Image


Quote:
There are also some nice details (these are the only ones I stumbled upon so far; there are probably more):


I'm surprised at how aggressive the "magnetism" is on that brothel, and st6's poster. I was half-jokingly thinking before, how CF's relentless barrage of grime, sleaze, and face-stomping was like Silent Hill 2 gone 80s brawler... now, I wonder if your similarly blonde, casually attired, pistol-packing avatar is repressing a motherlode of crazy/horny, too. :lol:

I make a point of taking out the Shooter near the brothel, then doing a header straight into the door, before i-framing my ass back to the fallen gun - now thats MIND GAMES Image

I love stage 5's aesthetic - the vivid skyline plays great against the black night, with a rainbow hue offsetting the usual grey ground. While CF is a little grey overall, it makes sense, given you're in a concrete jungle from start to end. It gives the vivid billboards and signs an especially florid effect (typically advertising sex and booze, of course), reflecting the title screen's rainbow graffiti on stainless steel traincar. The rising sun and ocean view of st7 are an excellently-timed respite of naturalistic beauty. Good continuity, too - up all night kicking ass, just like Final Fight. You can imagine the cocktail of adrenaline and rage your dudes must be running on! Surely nothing harder than that, 80s heroes are all about that Just Say No! Image Not a damn medikit in sight Image

While CF is a very tongue-in-cheek game, Stage 6's absolute nadir is genuinely pretty bleak. I mean holy fuck. :shock: The rats running down the street in broad daylight afterward, some dark shit! Looks almost like an oldschool PC point n' click.

Image

Quote:
Also, Razor Ramon Hard Gay Arcade Edition™'s hip thrust (and loving embrace) is amazing. :lol:


I can't help hearing this guy's muppet yelp in my head every time I get HardGayed. :mrgreen:

Quote:
EDIT:

I hadn't noticed because it didn't happen to me before but both the electrifying billboard and the strip club thingies can happen naturally by having one of those blonde dudes slam you against the background.


Haha, I was gonna ask if you'd seen that! Now that is SHOCKING VIOLENCE Image

I really like there's a second and final loop. I find Konami games with this approach (AC Super Contra JP, Sunset Riders, Trigon) vastly more appealing than their infinite-loopers. Be more like IREM, basically. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:45 am 


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Still getting my ass kicked by this game. :)

BIL wrote:
I get throws semi-consistently by mashing PPP while holding forward - doing the same with KKK tends to produce a Kunio-styled knee flurry, followed by a knee to the nuts ("ding!")... which doesn't knock down, so I quickly avoided it. (I'm terribly amused to find that sound effect in a game far pre-dating AKI's classic N64 wrestlers!)

DD1FC is exactly the comparison I'd make, now you mention it. A bittersweet likeness! Image Whatever one thinks of Final Fight, its ultra-reliable mechanics were a revelation for this genre. All love to the 80s AC/console beaters, still. The combination of volatility and bone-crushing meanness is compelling in its own way. :mrgreen: Image


Ah, I see, I thought the KKK grab would end in a throw. I guess it is the same that the mohawk enemies do to you (including the nut shot!).
And yeah, the throw after punching is easier to get and also more useful.

Also, another similarity to DD1FC (the Abobos in particular) is that against some bosses such as the stage 6' boxer/thai fighter, if you stay very close to them with your sprites overlapping they won't hit you, though you can't hit them either.

BIL wrote:
It seems very picky on range, with the descending point of the arc being key - I'm consistently nailing Kung Fus and Pipe Mohawks with it from this range:


I forgot to include it in my edit but yeah, I more or less got the hang of it now. It was the lack of any feedback from the enemies that got me somewhat confused -- except when one of the burly dudes caught me in mid-air. :)
It, along with kicking downed enemies is actually my go to tactic against the brutes that grab & throw you (aka: Abobos). In hindsight, it ends up feeling somewhat similar to Kunio FC, where you knock enemies down with a running punch and then pounce on them.

BIL wrote:
(Worth noting that certain enemies, like Junkyard Dogs and Dolphs, will catch you out of jumpkicks - CF seems like the sort of game where certain exotic moves just aren't viable VS certain foes, while key to taking down others)


The dogs are weird. The ones that come rushing at you seem at least partially designed to make you lose your weapon, as they die in one kick, but then there's that cuddly on in stage 7 which is a pain the the ass and takes longer to kill.
They are also fairly rare, only appearing in stages 7 & 8 -- same as the dominatrices, I think?

BIL wrote:
Incidentally, I didn't realise normal enemies (at least Switchblades) can actually kick you while you're down, too. Was trying to see if st5's billboard actually does damage, cheeky bugger interrupted my experiment :evil: Already knew KungFu's can stomp your spine, holy fuck this game's martial arts X brawling nexus is on point.


Yeah, I noticed that too, if you stay on the floor too long when they're around. I think the mohawks do it was well but I'm not sure (since they do the nut shot too).

BIL wrote:
Haha, I was gonna ask if you'd seen that! Now that is SHOCKING VIOLENCE Image


On my first run I didn't get thrown in either location, so I didn't even think of it. It was only on the next that it happened. :)
And yeah, the brothel event is quite easily triggered; the first time I didn't notice it because I was walking towards it already.

BIL wrote:
I really like there's a second and final loop. I find Konami games with this approach (AC Super Contra JP, Sunset Riders, Trigon) vastly more appealing than their infinite-loopers. Be more like IREM, basically. :lol:


Right, are there other beat-em-ups that have loops, excepting earlier ones like Spartan X, Kunio, etc? It's pretty uncommon and I can't think of any of the top of my head. Also, what an ending. :mrgreen:

The only thing missing is the ability to throw enemies into pits, like in DD. What a shame. :o

EDIT: Look at that post count!


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:42 am 


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Appropriate to hit that milestone discussing a rather evil-natured game. :mrgreen:

Image

__SKYe wrote:
The dogs are weird. The ones that come rushing at you seem at least partially designed to make you lose your weapon, as they die in one kick, but then there's that cuddly on in stage 7 which is a pain the the ass and takes longer to kill.
They are also fairly rare, only appearing in stages 7 & 8 -- same as the dominatrices, I think?


Stage 5 has one Dominatrix, as its midboss of sorts - come to think of it, stages 1, 2 and 3 also debut a heavy enemy apiece (Junkyard Dog/Green, Dolph, JD/Red).

I do love the crooks' last line of defense including a gay dog. :lol: An effective one, too! :shock: They must trust him to guard the chicks Image

---EDIT---

Yep, jumpkick is definitely KungFu Kryptonite. It's not the only way to bring him down, and it's certainly not the most direct, but it's reliable.

RIP gay doggo 3;
Spoiler: show
Image


Pretty sure if you really go ham on [kick], you can down him in one - at least that's what I did to Dolph after he pulled this shit :evil::

This evening's highlight Image
Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


This game's art is so good. :mrgreen: Sharp techniques, brutish brawls and shit-eating grins. Even with the radical shift in tone between this and Twinbee/Paro, you can easily guess a legend like Shuzilow was involved. TBH, it's not too tonally dissimilar from randy ol' Paro. You can tell there's a whole universe of colour dying to get out, too, in those gaudy shopfronts and signs.

Getting to grips with Stage 7. It's a bit more of a memoriser than the others, due to tight squeezes and Mean Dogs. That's a great tip on the Stage 6 boss safespot, Skye!

For HardGay-kun, his relentless super-armoured advance can be turned against him somewhat. He'll always home onto your line for an easy knife stab. With the game's strict Z-axis, it's a nice assist vs this irrepressibly leathered-up adversary! (this behaviour is true of enemies in general, but obviously a lot less advantageous with ones that outrange you)
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:31 pm 


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BIL wrote:
How'd you find Shun? Ashamed to say I've never so much as played it, while I've at least limped to a couple of endings on SFC. Way I figured, if it was even a fraction as good as the original it'd be something to have around, whenever the time came. :mrgreen:

Searchlike's description of the game is pretty much spot-on.

I find Shun to easily be the best of the trilogy (haven't played Fresh myself yet so can't say, though it doesn't look so hot with its one-big-level + missions structure thing), and it also feels tighter, and more demanding skill-wise than OG. The original game is quite good and it's a better starting point than Shun because Shun's rope is shorter and the level layouts can be very tricky, especially in the furthest zones.
While OG gives you more leeway with its longer rope, it seems that Shun compensates its shorter rope length with snappier physics. You have to master them more to pull off some jumps that are asked of you but you can still definitely do some crazy shit.

The level-design also places more focus on the platforming with the much lower enemy spawn rates, which I find was actually pretty annoying in OG. The idea in OG is to prevent you from playing too defensively, but guess what : there's already a timer for that. What it does instead is kicking you down when you're already struggling with a specific jump by forcing you to deal with random enemies before you can attempt the jumps again.

Speaking of enemies, bosses are also way better in Shun. This clip should speak for itself : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_k8L8qo7F0
The way OG bosses are annoying forced time outs basically erases 80% of the game's content by locking everything that's not the shortest route behind those really bad fights I don't want to undergo again. Shun completely fixes this. (and then Sayonara partially unfixes it lmao why)
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:38 pm 


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BIL wrote:
Appropriate to hit that milestone discussing a rather evil-natured game. :mrgreen:


The next one is 777 so let's aim for something lucky. :)

Regarding the brothel & lips sign, what I'm most amazed about is how I didn't notice their pull on my first run -- they aren't secret at all! :shock:
You just have to be on the sidewalk to be pulled in, and the game is quite insistent on making you want to go there, with the Dolphs and the motolov-throwing bikers.

BIL wrote:
Stage 5 has one Dominatrix, as its midboss of sorts - come to think of it, stages 1, 2 and 3 also debut a heavy enemy apiece (Junkyard Dog/Green, Dolph, JD/Red).


That's right, completely forgot about that one. They aren't the most troublesome but are quite durable.

At the start of stage 8, I had the misfortune of scrolling too far too quickly and the combination of the gunner, 2x dominatrices, dolph, etc is absolutely brutal.

I haven't been able to avoid taking at least a hit from the running dogs except once, where I had the pistol and shot him before it reached me. The cuddly dog isn't too durable, but he's really a pain in the ass with the group he's with especially since they can only be hit by kicks.

Speaking of kicks, do they actually have any use besides against the dogs? They're so slow that I'd rather just use the back kick instead (as you wrote, you can instantly switch directions to switch to/from punching).

BIL wrote:
Getting to grips with Stage 7. It's a bit more of a memoriser than the others, due to tight squeezes and Mean Dogs. That's a great tip on the Stage 6 boss safespot, Skye!


After playing another credit I don't think any of the other bosses are susceptible to it. It's nice in a way but I'm still unable to do anything useful with it -- I can move away slightly and land a couple punches, but he'll usually counter right after as his punches come out pretty fast. It is somewhat useful to take a breather at least, not unlike a clinch in a boxing match. :)

BIL wrote:
For HardGay-kun, his relentless super-armoured advance can be turned against him somewhat. He'll always home onto your line for an easy knife stab. With the game's strict Z-axis, it's a nice assist vs this irrepressibly leathered-up adversary! (this behaviour is true of enemies in general, but obviously a lot less advantageous with ones that outrange you)


Yeah, I also find that the most reliable way to use weapons is to wait for the enemies to line up with you, as they invariably do, before moving in for the hit.
Weapons are interesting; knives and pipes are mostly similar except for the delay when picking them up, making pipes much better in a pinch, but to compensate, knifes are more plentiful so there are almost always one around. Guns are amazing, if you can keep hold on to them -- stage 6's boss becomes trivial if you have one.

You mentioned the addled state enemies go into when they're close to death and it also serves another purpose -- you can leave enemies with good weapons (pipe, pistol) in this state while you take care of the others so that their weapons don't disappear.

Another sweet thing in this game is that you can scroll the playfield back, which is really nice when there are many enemies around. There aren't many beat-em-ups that allow it.

How do you deal with the later bosses (chainsaw-man + stage 6 and beyond)?
I've been using the back-kick followed by a couple punches (sometimes just the back-kick) because they hit me before I can get in range for a punch otherwise (and the standard kick is too slow). I'm not very reliable at it though. :)

Also, regarding the second loop; I got a "The bosses fight back" stage after the credits where you fight all 7 bosses (minus the bodyguard) at once with stage 6 as the backdrop. Does the second loop start after that?

Oh, lastly, the way you can walk around the pipe-wielding enemies as they whiff their swing is really reminiscent of your the DD2FC GIFs to show the difference between US/JP versions. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:40 pm 


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Guevara PS4 is so nice I bought it twice. (Actually, I bought it on the JP shop since I had some credit left over and forgot I bought it and later bought it on the US PSN shop). JP version supports English too. I also bought Crime Fighters. I also noticed that Thunder Cross now has English support.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:00 am 


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M.Knight wrote:
BIL wrote:
How'd you find Shun? Ashamed to say I've never so much as played it, while I've at least limped to a couple of endings on SFC. Way I figured, if it was even a fraction as good as the original it'd be something to have around, whenever the time came. :mrgreen:

Searchlike's description of the game is pretty much spot-on.

I find Shun to easily be the best of the trilogy (haven't played Fresh myself yet so can't say, though it doesn't look so hot with its one-big-level + missions structure thing), and it also feels tighter, and more demanding skill-wise than OG. The original game is quite good and it's a better starting point than Shun because Shun's rope is shorter and the level layouts can be very tricky, especially in the furthest zones.


Thanks for the review, added for indexing!

__SKYe wrote:
At the start of stage 8, I had the misfortune of scrolling too far too quickly and the combination of the gunner, 2x dominatrices, dolph, etc is absolutely brutal.


I've been experimenting with stage 7's scrolling, and it cannot be overstated how much easier this game gets when you're breaking up enemy waves. It's exactly like DD2AC in that regard. (I'm not sure DD2AC's final arena is even humanly possible, if you bring the whole thing on... and you will witness mind-altering slowdown, regardless!)

Quote:
I haven't been able to avoid taking at least a hit from the running dogs except once, where I had the pistol and shot him before it reached me. The cuddly dog isn't too durable, but he's really a pain in the ass with the group he's with especially since they can only be hit by kicks.


I'm having good results hitting the Angry Dogs with front kicks, though the timing - between the kick's startup, and the dog's speed - is notably tricky. As before, what really helps is ensuring you scroll in the dogs without their backup. If that happens, my best bet seems to be fleeing vertically, so I'm away from backstabbers (the dog will keep up with you), then letting them bite my leg and kicking the shit out of them. :lol:

Quote:
Speaking of kicks, do they actually have any use besides against the dogs? They're so slow that I'd rather just use the back kick instead (as you wrote, you can instantly switch directions to switch to/from punching).


Other than jumping dogs, they seem to have a poking function, with a subtly different hitbox from the Back Kick (whose primary asset is its i-frames). I've had some interesting results vs bosses with them - still too early to tell, though. I would say, for now, they're the least used of the three basic strikes.

Quote:
BIL wrote:
Getting to grips with Stage 7. It's a bit more of a memoriser than the others, due to tight squeezes and Mean Dogs. That's a great tip on the Stage 6 boss safespot, Skye!


After playing another credit I don't think any of the other bosses are susceptible to it. It's nice in a way but I'm still unable to do anything useful with it -- I can move away slightly and land a couple punches, but he'll usually counter right after as his punches come out pretty fast. It is somewhat useful to take a breather at least, not unlike a clinch in a boxing match. :)


I was able to do some damage by PPPing just as he left clinch range, though as you say further down, this is a clear case of "just shoot the bastard." :mrgreen: (also Bosses 2/Jason, 3/Chain and 8/Bodyguard)

Quote:
How do you deal with the later bosses (chainsaw-man + stage 6 and beyond)?
I've been using the back-kick followed by a couple punches (sometimes just the back-kick) because they hit me before I can get in range for a punch otherwise (and the standard kick is too slow). I'm not very reliable at it though. :)


I suspect Chainsaw is meant to be fought with the pipe found just earlier - it seems Crime Fighters' weapons function a bit like Ikari's tanks, or to bring it under Konami's roof, Gradius's powerups - meaning that while you *can* fight bosses without them, you're gonna avoid a world of hurt if keep hold!

With the pipe, he's fairly easy to catch from just inside its range. Fighting him bare-handed, I've been trying to bait him out vertically, then sneaking back up and punching him. It's dreadfully slow, though. I notice his biggest swing leaves his back open for PPP, though I'm not sure if there's a trick to spotting/triggering it...

Quote:
Also, regarding the second loop; I got a "The bosses fight back" stage after the credits where you fight all 7 bosses (minus the bodyguard) at once with stage 6 as the backdrop. Does the second loop start after that?


Yep! The bodyguard piles in eventually too, believe it or not. 3; It's murder! I credit-fed the loop after, didn't seem too different IIRC (was ungodly late). When you take out "that fat toad" a second time, there's no "The Game Is Not Over!" message, it just runs the ending and HS table before going to Game Over.

So it seems the full run is Loop 1/Boss Revenge/Loop 2. Just like JP Super Contra and Trigon, it looks brutal, but also more infernally more compelling than Gradius/Salamander endless loops. :twisted:

Quote:
Oh, lastly, the way you can walk around the pipe-wielding enemies as they whiff their swing is really reminiscent of your the DD2FC GIFs to show the difference between US/JP versions. :mrgreen:


Haha, I didn't dare to try! :mrgreen: Good to hear it's possible - I did think enemies seemed to have just as hard a time hitting off-axis targets as players do.

By the way, did you try picking up the key the big boss throws? I actually thought it was a projectile/grenade and evaded it, the first time, and it'd vanished before I looked back. Minor spoiler, if you haven't:
Spoiler: show
Honestly, it made me think of Crude Buster's finale, one of those action games I've actually laughed out loud at. :lol: The way he opens up on you with the machinegun was amusing... but the way he'll shamelessly beg for mercy, only to spray you again if you "forgive" him, before begging some more, what a shameless bastard Image


(I know I'm up too late with this game, the way I keep dodging stage 6's running rats like they're projectiles too Image)

BrianC wrote:
Guevara PS4 is so nice I bought it twice. (Actually, I bought it on the JP shop since I had some credit left over and forgot I bought it and later bought it on the US PSN shop). JP version supports English too. I also bought Crime Fighters. I also noticed that Thunder Cross now has English support.


Excellent, I was wrestling with Thunder Cross's menus just recently. That's one less ACA title where I have to fire up Yandex. Image
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:04 am 


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BIL wrote:
Other than jumping dogs, they seem to have a poking function, with a subtly different hitbox from the Back Kick (whose primary asset is its i-frames). I've had some interesting results vs bosses with them - still too early to tell, though. I would say, for now, they're the least used of the three basic strikes.


It's a shame they're so slow. Sorta feels like a waste of a button. :)

BIL wrote:
I was able to do some damage by PPPing just as he left clinch range, though as you say further down, this is a clear case of "just shoot the bastard." :mrgreen: (also Bosses 2/Jason, 3/Chain and 8/Bodyguard)


Yeah, but the 2nd and 3rd bosses aren't too bad without weapons (the 2nd can be hit after he buries his axe on the ground and the 3rd has a small delay after his chain attack). The 6th and 8th bosses are much harder without weapons, much like the 7th (commando) boss.
It feels a little dirty to abuse the pistol, though. :)
BIL wrote:
I suspect Chainsaw is meant to be fought with the pipe found just earlier - it seems Crime Fighters' weapons function a bit like Ikari's tanks, or to bring it under Konami's roof, Gradius's powerups - meaning that while you *can* fight bosses without them, you're gonna avoid a world of hurt if keep hold!

With the pipe, he's fairly easy to catch from just inside its range. Fighting him bare-handed, I've been trying to bait him out vertically, then sneaking back up and punching him. It's dreadfully slow, though. I notice his biggest swing leaves his back open for PPP, though I'm not sure if there's a trick to spotting/triggering it. Seems a bit like st1's gimmick fight, only not. :smile:


I'll try that. He's where it gets tough since there's little opportunity for countering due to his fast attacks. Interestingly the 5th stage's boss (the claws dude) is quite a bit easier.

BIL wrote:
Yep! The bodyguard piles in eventually too, believe it or not. 3; It's murder! I credit-fed the loop after, didn't seem too different IIRC (was ungodly late). When you take out "that fat toad" a second time, there's no "The Game Is Not Over!" message, it just runs the ending and HS table before going to Game Over.

So it seems the full run is Loop 1/Boss Revenge/Loop 2. Just like JP Super Contra and Trigon, it looks brutal, but also more infernally more compelling than Gradius/Salamander endless loops. :twisted:


Haha, I didn't even attempt to last the stage, I just got a bit confused because I thought it would be the standard looping affair of going back to stage one. I guess Konami really wanted players off the machine. :mrgreen:

BIL wrote:
Haha, I didn't dare to try! :mrgreen: Good to hear it's possible - I did think enemies seemed to have just as hard a time hitting off-axis targets as players do.


I mean just moving along the z-axis in front of them will make them swing their bat when you cross their lane but they'll always miss. Same with the 1st, 2nd and 3rd bosses -- as long as you keep moving they'll miss their respective attacks.
Their agressiveness really reminds me of your DD2FC supreme master GIF; really fun stuff. :)

BIL wrote:
By the way, did you try picking up the key the big boss throws? I actually thought it was a projectile/grenade and evaded it, the first time, and it'd vanished before I looked back.


On my first run I immediately hit him and that was it and only tried picking up the key later. When I first saw him getting out of the car I really thought there would be a 2nd phase. He really has that Mr. X's bullet spraying going on (or rather, Mr. X has his).
The ending is pretty fun too; the chicks are just leisurely sitting there while you beat the snot out of the bodyguard, as if it's a given you'll save them. :)

Anyway, best I've done so far in one credit is getting to the stage 4's boss; got there a few times but always lost. Konami wasn't fucking around -- no health restoratives (like you posted above) nor extends. You're either good at ball busting or you're done!

How does scoring works anyway? You get one point per enemy killed but each time I play a credit I get different scores (at the end of each stage) from run to run. Does the way you kill them change anything?


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:12 am 


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Good question, I'm not sure how the scoring works... TBH, the score counter is slightly offscreen on my TV, so I barely notice it. :mrgreen:

I really like that "one kill/one point" system, makes the game feel appropriately small-scale and street-level. Like "X thugs beaten down" as opposed to some disconnected number.

st5 Not Freddy Krueger aka NIGHTMARE KILLER (I have to track down an official naming source, that is too rad a name to let go) definitely seems more vulnerable to PPP than the rest - it seems to me like he's actually more dangerous if you let him escape the flurry, his double-armed claw appears to trigger when he's backed up a bit.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:18 am 


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Well, it's not like I play beat-em-ups for score. :)

By the way, this is the GIF I was talking about:

Image

They behave remarkably similar.

BIL wrote:
st5 Not Freddy Krueger aka NIGHTMARE KILLER (I have to track down an official naming source, that is too rad a name to let go) definitely seems more vulnerable to PPP than the rest - it seems to me like he's actually more dangerous if you let him escape the flurry, his double-armed claw appears to trigger when he's backed up a bit.


That's what I do. The most dangerous thing about the fight is that a kung-fu enemy also appears and both of them together are a bit of a pain in the ass.


Last edited by __SKYe on Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:37 am 


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Oh yeah I remember it well - discovering DD2FC Hard blew my mind. Image I'd watch NES speedruns with free knees galore, and hear people call it disappointingly easy, and wonder "How does this game kick my ass so badly?" Then fire up my cart, go for EZ knees, and get beaten into the floor by the FC's hyper-aggressive Hard AI.

I thought I was just really shit at the game, until I finally tried the NES one and flattened Supreme Master in one shot. :lol:

----

Was practicing stage 7 and its boss tonight. I think this is the first loop's biggest collective challenge - st8 is nails-hard as well, but the gun takes a lot of edge off, even if you rush in. st7 will turn into hell if not carefully partitioned - the waterfront battle with a red Kungfu, a red Junkyard, Gay Dog and a horde of Switchblades and Greasers can be broken up into chunks, for example.

RE the boss - I think you're expected to knife-fight, especially as they put a Greaser accompanying him. Actually, if you're careful with your scrolling, you can spawn the Greaser and get his knife before the boss arrives. The trick I've found is to position yourself diagonally to him, so he'll home towards you, then attack from off-axis, as shown in the below clips. It's by no means easy, but if you can land four-five stabs, he'll be dramatically weakened. I can land kicks via roughly the same method, but without preceding stabs it's ungodly slow.

https://youtu.be/GoRBjURQZcA & https://youtu.be/hyTvgY1rlyI - earlier attempts. Note that a lot of the time, I'm already in his range, with him descending vertically to my line. It seems this is slower and more dangerous than having him diagonally approach.

https://youtu.be/KY10elEsJ8Q & https://youtu.be/tyF513ODbBQ - notably quicker, around 20secs per kill, using almost all diagonal luring.

(Gotta love a good Sgt. Elias reference, haha)

I thought about crippling the Greaser, so he'd be a backup knife - but keeping him alive while fighting the boss seems tough. EDIT: Janet is amazing. Seems I had the right idea but not the requisite creativity. :mrgreen:

---

Figured out st4/Chainsaw, Skye! I was getting my head handed to me, attempting to hit him with the pipe from diagonally off-axis, ala st7/Knife. This can work, but the timing is pretty unreasonable.

The trick I've found is to let him close in and attack, then dodge vertically and circle to his back. It sounds scary, but it's surprisingly repeatable. I think his swing heights are random, but regardless, the highest two can be double-stabbed. Pipe seems a bit slower, but I'm still figuring out how to consistently execute the pointblank. Might be as quick as the knife. It can work unarmed too, it's just very slow.

https://youtu.be/N7MEmbTNlyU <- Early days :oops:
https://youtu.be/vcWdIvxwAGI
https://youtu.be/vwo7EOiXtQU
https://youtu.be/5HX5oA_x15U <- SUPER STAB Image

Blimey this game is grim, feel kinda bad stabbing the dude's back up. :shock: Then again he's trying to carve me like a goddamn Christmas turkey! WELCOME TO VIOLENT CITY Image

What a giant pain in the ass those st4 girders are. BAD KONAMI. :evil: Makes nailing down the Red Junkyard + HardGay fight extra-onerous. I find the former is best wrangled into pointblank via vertical tap-dodging, so you can either floor him with a weapon, or land a PPP, before commencing shoeing. If you're too far back, he'll shoulder-ram you, which can quickly see things go to shit with HardGay hovering about. In that case it's best to retreat left, so at least you'll put some distance between Junkyard and the irrepressibly taunting leather menace. And you'll be able to see WTF you're doing, too! Image

Cool game. Wish it didn't have that stupid boss revenge stage, but I'm enjoying it more than enough to stick with it past the 1CC.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:10 am 


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Only managed one credit last night. Still got my ass kicked at ST3's gunman / charging red pants. Charge dude seems to break every attack I use?
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