Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Vanguard]

Played a few more credits in Crude Buster, and managed to reach the last boss twice, but lost both times.
BIL, have you reach him? Absolutely fantastic, and bloody funny -- such a contrast between ridiculously weak versus brutal tough.

I just looked this up and it's as good as you say. A must-see! This game is hilarious.

[Skykid]

Got the Rolling Thunder first loop clear.

The second loop is pain in a good way, incredibly mixed up; but I worry that this is going to demand a 1LC. I lost a life on 2-1 and had to restart from the mid-point and, as it strips you of collected ammo you're literally forced to make every bullet count which is not easy owing to the fact that they have thrown a truckload of additional enemies in the mix. Right at the end of 2-1 I was out of bullets and three of those goblins that normally appear on 1-3 leapt over the sandbags and there's nothing I could do. When ammo is out the reload is too slow to get them in time.

So I'm thinking a 1LC may be what Namco were pushing for if it carries on in this vein as you'll need all the ammo you can get.

[FinalBaton]

Replaying Cave Story and damn, this is always a fun time. The boss fights are great, too.

An Adventure Run 'n Gun game, is what I call this one

Charm up the wazoo, too.

Hadn't played it since the year it came out (played the Hell secret level then and all that), and I adored it back then, that game has really swayed me. But I wanted to replay it to forge a fresh opinion since my memories of the gameplay were too vague. and so far (I'm up to the Labyrinth/trash heap level), my feeling is that : it's still fun.

[dunpeal2064]

Cave Story

Heh, I just played through this for the first time last week, since it got a nice release on Switch. Found it to be surprisingly nice, and it certainly has a ton of charm. I love that you start out as this adorable little dude with a pea shooter trading blows with slimes, only to eventually evolve into a beast that murders everything and doesn't even touch the floor because the repel of your msg is so high

Definitely feels more akin to a runner with a hub than a full on vania, which I was rather pleased to discover. Quite a lovely game!

[mycophobia]

Managed a no-miss clear of Mystic Warriors with Yuri over the weekend, and of course I neglected to record it in any way. But it wasn't a fluke, so I should be able to do it again. I take back everything I said about the game being "kind of unfair", it's just really hard. Yes the train boss is random af, yes the elevator section is chaotic and the best strategy for it is unintuitive, but nothing in the game is a total crapshoot and consistency is definitely achievable.

[Blinge]

doesn't even touch the floor because the repel of your msg is so high

Uh Oh!
Someone needs to play through again for TRUE END
Also I bet ya missed the panties

Sweet game. I always meant to go back and play hard mode. (and therefore ruin my love for it)

Definitely feels more akin to a runner with a hub than a full on vania, which I was rather pleased to discover. Quite a lovely game!

Yup. It does annoy me when people consider it a vania tbh.
But I'm a bit 'tistic when it comes to genre definitions so don't mind me..

[FinalBaton]

doesn't even touch the floor because the repel of your msg is so high

Uh Oh!
Someone needs to play through again for TRUE END
Also I bet ya missed the panties

indeed

Yup. It does annoy me when people consider it a vania tbh.
But I'm a bit 'tistic when it comes to genre definitions so don't mind me..

Wow! didn't know some people labeled it as a Vania. To me that's not accurate at all.

[Blinge]

Wow! didn't know some people labeled it as a Vania. To me that's not accurate at all.

Time to spoil your day haha.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: ... ania_games

[Obscura]

doesn't even touch the floor because the repel of your msg is so high

Uh Oh!
Someone needs to play through again for TRUE END
Also I bet ya missed the panties

You can get true end with machine gun. Not having the Spur makes it harder, but it's still doable.

[Blinge]

o fuc

Although dunpeal's comment does suggest he has the old type booster?
A bit.

[__SKYe]

Got the Rolling Thunder first loop clear.
The second loop is pain in a good way, incredibly mixed up; but I worry that this is going to demand a 1LC. I lost a life on 2-1 and had to restart from the mid-point and, as it strips you of collected ammo you're literally forced to make every bullet count which is not easy owing to the fact that they have thrown a truckload of additional enemies in the mix. Right at the end of 2-1 I was out of bullets and three of those goblins that normally appear on 1-3 leapt over the sandbags and there's nothing I could do. When ammo is out the reload is too slow to get them in time.

Congrats, will you be going for the 2-ALL as well, or are you just dipping a toe in it?

So I'm thinking a 1LC may be what Namco were pushing for if it carries on in this vein as you'll need all the ammo you can get.

It's likely yes, as even as soon as 1-2, if you lose a life before/during the long staircases section and don't go back to pick up ammo (don't even recall if you can do it, or if it's feasible), you'll be in trouble, as your default ammunition will deplete very quickly, and the single-shot peashooter is painfully slow.

Managed a no-miss clear of Mystic Warriors with Yuri over the weekend, and of course I neglected to record it in any way. But it wasn't a fluke, so I should be able to do it again. I take back everything I said about the game being "kind of unfair", it's just really hard. Yes the train boss is random af, yes the elevator section is chaotic and the best strategy for it is unintuitive, but nothing in the game is a total crapshoot and consistency is definitely achievable.

Congrats as well, that one was a long time in the making eh?

[BIL]

I remember Randorama (pretty sure it was Rando) mentioning how utterly cruel Rolling Thunder 2 (AC) could be with ammo and time, so not entirely surprised to hear the original is quite the bitch too.

The name's not as popularly synonymous with brutal challenge as say Makaimura, but RT's arcade and console entries alike seem pretty uniformly mean. Even brazen clone Dead Fox upholds the tradition.

[Skykid]

1st loop is not what I would personally call brutal, but I've been playing games long enough to measure the lay of the land fairly quickly. It went down relatively fast considering the amount of serious time invested (really only a few trips to the arcade).

But I can see that loop 2 is uniformly a different matter. Recovery from death in loop 1 is fine: as long as you're in control of your firing and have good enough knowledge of the stage, you can even clear 1-5 with a death and ammo reset. I think that's impossible to achieve from 2-1 onwards.

I'm now aware of an ammo door reset trick where you can get some distance from the door and then head back for a top up. 3-4 repeats against the clock will get you a lot of machine gun ammo - enough to kill Geldra on 2-5 before he can reach you (otherwise he requires over 50 shots from the handgun!!); but it is a 1LC job only. There won't be a 2-ALL unless it's done in one, which would put it's overall difficulty high on the scale.

[Mortificator]

I didn't 1CC Rolling Thunder arcade, merely made it through within the 7-credit limit the cabinet allows, but that should mean it's possible to recover from death. The vast majority of mine came from... was it 2-3 or 2-4? One of the cave sections was a major difficulty hump on the second loop.

[Sumez]

The name's not as popularly synonymous with brutal challenge as say Makaimura

Is Makaimura even difficult by arcade standards? It always occured to me that it got its reputation from the home ports, because people were used to something more forgiving. Daimakaimura is probably the easiest arcade game I have ever cleared, not counting super-easy stuff like Deathsmiles or Prehistoric Isle 2.
That's not to say it's an easy game (it's still much harder than Ninja Gaiden eg.), but few arcade games are.

What's the word on the street about the Famicom port of Rolling Thunder 1, btw? I've got it sitting around, and considered putting some time into it.

[dunpeal2064]

o fuc

Although dunpeal's comment does suggest he has the old type booster?
A bit.

No clue!

I did have a hover-y jetpack thing, but I just used the machine gun to float around. Not even sure what a Spur is, so I'll hazard a guess that I did not get the good end.

I figured I missed a few things, but surprised I missed that much, game felt pretty linear to me!

[Skykid]

I didn't 1CC Rolling Thunder arcade, merely made it through within the 7-credit limit the cabinet allows, but that should mean it's possible to recover from death. The vast majority of mine came from... was it 2-3 or 2-4? One of the cave sections was a major difficulty hump on the second loop.

I could be wrong but it seems impossible to recover from 2-1 if you die in the latter half because the halfway point offers no additional ammo dumps from then on. That means you have 50 handgun bullets and there are more than 50 shots needed to clear it. Granted you may need to be precision perfect but the stage has a lot of RNG enemy types and some require 2 bullet dispatches. The only thing I didn't attempt was a backtrack to a previous ammo dump because it seemed counter-intuitive, but it could work.

[BIL]

Is Makaimura even difficult by arcade standards? It always occured to me that it got its reputation from the home ports, because people were used to something more forgiving. Daimakaimura is probably the easiest arcade game I have ever cleared, not counting super-easy stuff like Deathsmiles or Prehistoric Isle 2.
That's not to say it's an easy game (it's still much harder than Ninja Gaiden eg.), but few arcade games are.

Referring more to popular perception than actual game content - casuals seem to be uniformly intimidated by the GNG name, no matter which game specifically.

I've not played the original Makaimura enough to comment tbh, but I can see why Dai scares away noobs despite being an eminently reasonable game. That constant simmering chaos prevents any sense of refuge or security - total catnip for hardcore lunatics, ofc, but probably demoralising if not outright pants-shittingly scary for more casual players who just wanna be told they R great.

What's the word on the street about the Famicom port of Rolling Thunder 1, btw? I've got it sitting around, and considered putting some time into it.

I like it - recently picked up a copy to complement Dead Fox. it's really goddamn mean! Sometimes a little too mean, with certain enemy types (like Green Maskers) attacking at lightning speed with mere frames to dodge - can get a bit memorisery in spots. Overall it works fine though. I like it when a console port doesn't hold back.

[mycophobia]

I've always found Daimakaimura to be really hard

Granted I haven't put a lot of time into it.

[BrianC]

I like it - recently picked up a copy to complement Dead Fox. it's really goddamn mean! Sometimes a little too mean, with certain enemy types (like Green Maskers) attacking at lightning speed with mere frames to dodge - can get a bit memorisery in spots. Overall it works fine though. I like it when a console port doesn't hold back.

It also has a sound chip inside that is similar to some of the Namco arcade sound chips. Compared to the US version of Rolling Thunder, the music is much better.

[Sumez]

Wut, I never heard of this. Now I'm much more interested in checking it out.

[FinalBaton]

I've always found Daimakaimura to be really hard

Granted I haven't put a lot of time into it.

Same, that game is really hard to me


Re : Cave Story, did you play the Hell level back then? It's an optional level that's really easy to miss (there are a couple specific things you need to do to have access to it, otherwise it's entrance door will be locked when you pass it by at the end of the game). This will give you the true ending of the game.

It is extremely fun, hardcore jetpack maneuvering and run'n gunning, I highly recommend you try it.

You can check the first 4 min and a half of this to give you a taste of the action to come(I highly recommend everyone on here unfamiliar with the game/who hasn't seen the Hell level to check it out. Brilliant platforming/action frenzy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJbTX21TeNM

[BIL]

t also has a sound chip inside that is similar to some of the Namco arcade sound chips. Compared to the US version of Rolling Thunder, the music is much better.

Oh cool I did think the OST was doing some neat things. It's a snapcase game using the arcade flyer artworks, too, which is always cute! Albatross is one mean-lookin' cat in official RT1 materials.

[BrianC]

Namco 163 is the name of the chip. Final Lap, Mappy Kids, Youkai Dochuuki, and a couple Atlus designed games (Megami Tensei II, Erika to Saito no Yume Bouken, and King of Kings FC, not to be confused with the NES Color Dreams game) also use it.

[EmperorIng]

The name's not as popularly synonymous with brutal challenge as say Makaimura

Is Makaimura even difficult by arcade standards?

It's much more limited and stiff, and far less forgiving than Dai Makaimura in my opinion. It seems as if the only way to possibly beat the final two levels is to exploit enemy AI or oversights in enemy behavior (let alone bugs/glitches like making Arremers disappear).

Dai is chaotic and hard but at least it feels like it is designed for constant improv and twitch skills mixed in with memorization. Makaimura feels like you need to do extremely specific and sometimes esoteric tasks in order to get the enemy AI railroaded into a particular path that allows you through. Again, it's all about the final two levels. They are just bullshit.

[BrianC]

The name's not as popularly synonymous with brutal challenge as say Makaimura

Is Makaimura even difficult by arcade standards?

It's much more limited and stiff, and far less forgiving than Dai Makaimura in my opinion. It seems as if the only way to possibly beat the final two levels is to exploit enemy AI or oversights in enemy behavior (let alone bugs/glitches like making Arremers disappear).

Dai is chaotic and hard but at least it feels like it is designed for constant improv and twitch skills mixed in with memorization. Makaimura feels like you need to do extremely specific and sometimes esoteric tasks in order to get the enemy AI railroaded into a particular path that allows you through. Again, it's all about the final two levels. They are just bullshit.

I heard some of the revisions of Makai-mura, especially a couple of the JP ones are less BS, though.

[Sumez]

Yes, you want the late Japanese revisions. There are a lot of different versions of this game, and most of the differences are in the final stage. A specific US version in particular is the one that's been bootlegged to hell and back, and it has two unicorns on the final stage in a formation that will never let you through without taking a hit. Pure BS, but at least you get a hidden armor shortly after. The same version also has much more random patterns for the Satan fights making it easily the biggest bottleneck for me, with the fights largely coming down to pure luck.

The other versions usually have much more arremers on the final stage, which seems rough, but I prefer this version as it's a more fair challenge. You don't have to "activate" most of them. I think Stage 5 is overall much worse, in either version.

[Vanguard]

I've always found Daimakaimura to be really hard

Granted I haven't put a lot of time into it.

My experience is that it initially comes across as much harder than it is. The first time I credit fed through I probably used dozens of continues, but the 1CC was pretty easy by arcade standards.

I did have a hover-y jetpack thing, but I just used the machine gun to float around. Not even sure what a Spur is, so I'll hazard a guess that I did not get the good end.

I figured I missed a few things, but surprised I missed that much, game felt pretty linear to me!

The spur is

Spoiler

an upgraded form of the Polar Star. It has a Megaman-like charge function and is considerably more powerful than the machine gun, though it lacks the hover ability. It isn't actually required for the true ending, but most people will obtain it on true ending runs. There's also a gun called the Snake that can be made from the Polar Star, and I hear it's actually good for speed running the final area, but I like it the least of the three main weapons.

The true ending is pretty much impossible to stumble on by mistake. You have to

Spoiler

save Curly Brace from drowning after the core boss in the labyrinth. Also, when you see Professor Booster fall into the pit, avoid going in after him. If you follow him he will give you the prototype booster jetpack and then die. If you jump over the pit and ignore him, he will later show up alive and well and give you the super booster jetpack. There are other requirements but iirc those are the big permanently missable ones.

I recommend going into a second playthrough fully spoiled.

[Blinge]

It is extremely fun, hardcore jetpack maneuvering and run'n gunning, I highly recommend you try it.

Heh. It's been a long time since I played but the lack of checkpoints really made it a chore for me.
To the point where I played the whole thing super slow to try and arrive at Balos with as much health as possible.

[FinalBaton]

The spur is

Spoiler

an upgraded form of the Polar Star. It has a Megaman-like charge function and is considerably more powerful than the machine gun, though it lacks the hover ability. It isn't actually required for the true ending, but most people will obtain it on true ending runs. There's also a gun called the Snake that can be made from the Polar Star, and I hear it's actually good for speed running the final area, but I like it the least of the three main weapons.

The true ending is pretty much impossible to stumble on by mistake. You have to

Spoiler

save Curly Brace from drowning after the core boss in the labyrinth. Also, when you see Professor Booster fall into the pit, avoid going in after him. If you follow him he will give you the prototype booster jetpack and then die. If you jump over the pit and ignore him, he will later show up alive and well and give you the super booster jetpack. There are other requirements but iirc those are the big permanently missable ones.

Interesting regarding the Snake rifle!

I recommend going into a second playthrough fully spoiled.

This. x1000


Also, I think I'll give a shot to Kero Blaster. It looks appealing to me, despite being linear. Love that your character can moonwalk. and the weapon seem satisfying to use, epecially the Bubble.