Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

I can't get behind calling X2 mediocre while saying the NES games all range from good to great. Not that the NES games were bad at all, they were just kinda running in place for the last 3, doing the same basic game template with a new situational traversal gimmick added. So if those were good, X2, a challenging game with great controls, colourful huge set pieces and a nice amount of exploration and secrets to discover, has gotta at least be in the good category along with them.

I agree that the later NES Mega Man games aren't really exceptional but I think that the X series already started dropping below their level with its second game.

Even the first X game is overall very solid but has its problems. Its big strengths are its fantastic handling and developed aesthetics, but its level design and enemy layouts are kind of underbaked compared to the classic series' (owing largely to its reduced difficulty), and its bosses are outright tepid. I'd still say it's a more than passable game because of how uncommon its great-feeling movement is, but I think it's already a fundamentally weaker action game than even the mid-tier NES entries.

X2 is much weaker than 1; I replayed it a few weeks ago after a full Zero series replay and was surprised. It at least has great controls and pleasant visuals, but its levels are outright dull, scarcely providing interesting action or exploration (I feel like half the secrets are just air dash / charged speed burner into a hole in the wall or ceiling), and a lot of its bosses are outright poor - so many of the eight mavericks have boring, tedious patterns and way too much health even when fought with their weaknesses (the boss rush at the end is a drag). I definitely wouldn't call it a challenging game, either, though I wouldn't knock it hard for being on the easy side; Mega Man 2 is one of the best classic entries despite being the easiest, anyway.

I think it is pretty marginal - I'm not really in love with Mega Man 5 or 6, either - but I think even the relatively weaker classic Mega Man games are stronger than the middling X entries because the classic games have to have at least decent level design; X's designers seem to just fall back on the strength of that series' core mechanics and allow for a lot of extra slack in their layouts, which doesn't feel good in 2D action games.

I can't agree with any of this, really.

X and X2 are fucking masterpieces. The levels in both range from good to excellent and both are rightly hailed as some of the best games in the mega man franchise. But from about X2 (or X4) to X8, the series spiraled off into myriad directions, most of which were a downgrade from what came before. If not outright horrible. The X formula didn't meaningfully evolve from MMX until MM Zero. Zero was that needed next step. But X and X2 are still amazing games in their own rights, the more so because the latter X games didn't surpass them.

The second major point where I disagree is with this notion that there's not much quality gap between Zero and, say, Zero 3. Zero 1 is practically an unfinished game. The boss fights are good, but many of the other elements suck immense quantities of anus. The open world concept really doesn't work in practice. Leveling weapons is stupid. Weapon balance is all over the place. The game is jank as fuck generally and full of shit-tastic escort missions.

But Zero 3 fixed all of that.

https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Mega_Man_Zero_3/Weapons

No weapon leveling. Cyber-elves you can use without murdering them or your rank. Better bosses. Better levels. Proper stage design rather than a bunch of individual (shit) stages connected into a hub. One weapon doesn't dominate the game anymore. Zero 3 may not seem much different on the surface, but delve under the hood and there are a wealth of changes. Zero 3 is challenging and rewarding for casual play, but has even more depth when you dig into it.

The later Mega Man X games had some good ideas (armors) balanced with a lot of bad ones. Aside from the screen size, which is an innate issue in almost ALL GBA games, I can't think of anything Zero 3 does poorly. Zero 4 suffers a bit for being a redundant, iterative sequel rather than the radical leap forward the series should have been making at that point. Zero 2 is fantastic, but I think it still has a few flaws here and there (some levels that are kinda ass). Zero 3, in my book, is the complete package. The heights that Inti never reached again.

... Although I am leaving room open for Gunvolt 3, which I haven't played, to take that spot as the next evolutionary step.

Zero 1 is definitely the weakest of the series, but I think it's alright overall. It has some dogshit levels like the desert escort mission and the tedious "stealth" level (also in the desert...) but the average stage in that game is alright, and though weapon leveling is definitely a bad idea that bogs the beginning of Zero 1 and 2 down, it stops mattering before long and is the least of those games' issues.

I don't think any of the Zero games were great leaps in quality over the previous ones, though again they definitely improved as they went on. Most of their improvements were just incremental quality of life adjustments - phasing out weapon leveling, improving cyber-elves, coming up with more interesting weapons as the series go on (even if you want to play with the sword most of the time, still).

The screen size being an issue for many GBA action games is an explanation, not really an excuse (and I would also point to Ninja Five-O as an example of quality GBA action not hamstrung by large sprites and that resolution). Just because other games on the platform faced similar issues doesn't really make Zero's screen space feel any better.

It seems obvious to me that the hardware was considered at every step of the process in developing the Zero games, from the level design to the artwork to the style of the music. Those games are made to be played on GBA hardware, moreso than any other GBA game. I've never experienced the supposed blind jumps people complain about. Even in the quite rough Z1, the longest jumps you're ever required to make are to things in clear view. Wheel enemies appearing "right on top of you" seems annoying, sure, until you realize shooting them slows their movement. The Z games are very generous about your limited ability to see.

Having to shoot the wheel enemies to slow them down ignores that you have to already be shooting as you scroll them on screen for that to have a meaningful effect, and that even then you have less time to react versus the car or wheel enemies in X1. I'm not sure what the point of your X1 example gif is, because it clearly shows how much more time you have to react to those cars versus Zero's enemies. This is saying nothing of all of Zero's sloppy moments like the train stage in Zero 2 (which has points where you have to jump up the side of a train car, where a wheel enemy will then just fall directly on top of you as you reach the roof) or the final stage in Zero 4 (where you have enemies instantly shooting you with screen-covering projectiles the instant you scroll them on screen; the only way to stop it is to have pre-emptively stolen a specific shield weapon with the knuckle beforehand).

Zero's bad elements are ultimately memorizable - which is why I'd rank the series higher than most of the X series, maybe even the first one - but I don't think that really excuses how rocky those games feel initially, which feels more due to sloppiness than anything - I expect they wanted players to just replay for rank anyway and so didn't care if the Zero games ended up more memorizers than usual Mega Man games.

[Air Master Burst]

I honestly don't think ANY of the Mega Man games have particularly inspiring stage design compared to a proper platformer anyway. It's also a pretty easy series overall, outside of Mega Man and Bass and some bullshit jumps in MM1. The smooth handling and cool boss/weapon variety was always the big draw, with the X series going heavier on aesthetics, and also story in later installments.

Then again, I actually like Mega Man X3 the best of all Mega Man games, so perhaps I value different things about the series. It's my favorite implementation of playing as Zero since the one-life gimmick makes me feel even cooler when I get the good ending. I think it has the best secret hunting in the series, although plotting a perfect run through X2 is super satisfying too.

[bottino]

Well, the MegaMan series is 'gimmicky', for better or worse.

Speaking of which, I've been (re)playing and having a good time with MegaMan 2 (aka MetalMan), a much, much better game than the first one.

[Volteccer_Jack]

Having to shoot the wheel enemies to slow them down ignores that you have to already be shooting as you scroll them on screen for that to have a meaningful effect, and that even then you have less time to react versus the car or wheel enemies in X1.

The wheels in Z1 give you the same amount of time to react as the cars in X1, assuming you are holding right and not shooting or dashing (about half a second from appearance to collision, comparable to a slow overhead in a fighting game and entirely reactable). If you are shooting then both the wheels and the cars will slow down giving you more time to react. The biggest difference is that the wheel enemies in Z1 will die before they reach you if you simply react to their appearance by stopping your movement and mashing uncharged buster, while the car enemies in X1 will reach you before they die if you try the same thing due to their much larger health pool.

the final stage in Zero 4 (where you have enemies instantly shooting you with screen-covering projectiles the instant you scroll them on screen; the only way to stop it is to have pre-emptively stolen a specific shield weapon with the knuckle beforehand).

I have no idea what you could possibly be referring to. No such enemy exists in Z4.
This is the final stage of Zero 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt0zbYU6B0w
The wheels in the Z2 train stage are entirely reactable also. Starting to wonder what games you replayed a month ago because it apparently wasn't the MMZ series. You're remembering things that simply don't exist.

BTW here's an example of an enemy instantly shooting you the instant you scroll them on screen and the only way to stop them is pre-emptively after having already memorized their location!

Spoiler

I've always thought both series sucked compared to OG Mega Man. I don't want to be holding down a button all the time to be viable, nor do I want to be reliant on weird tap dashes and multiple button presses to survive. Original Mega Man has better boss design too. Mega Man X really brings nothing that the original series didn't have other than graphics and 'tude,' both of which time has shown to be wholly unnecessary.

The charge shot really fucked up the design of Mega Man TBQH. It de-emphasized boss weapons and emphasized bullet sponge enemies. And while MM4 handled it surprisingly well, 5 and 6 handled it poorly and the 4 SNES Mega Man games all have bad pacing with loads of big stupid wall enemies that only exist to waste time. It's not till the Playstation-era games that the problem got addressed, by letting X charge the buster even while having other weapons equipped, and by Zero just having a damn sword.

If by "tap dashes" you mean double-tapping forward to dash well you should never be using that, you should immediately map dash to the L button upon booting up any Megaman game that features a dash, and you should turn off the double-tap dash if there is ever an option to do so. I don't know why the one universal feature of all X and Zero games is bad default controls, but such is life I suppose.

Re bosses, original Megaman bosses are very one-dimensional and simplistic. Zero series bosses are in a different league from classic and X series.

Then again, I actually like Mega Man X3 the best of all Mega Man games, so perhaps I value different things about the series. It's my favorite implementation of playing as Zero since the one-life gimmick makes me feel even cooler when I get the good ending. I think it has the best secret hunting in the series, although plotting a perfect run through X2 is super satisfying too.

I went through a phase for a while where I thought X3 was the best in the series, but it lost its luster over time. There's tons of content, which is awesome, but way too much of it is half-baked. You have optional power-up chips, but actually you should avoid them so you can get the gold thingy. You have this big revamped Ride Armor system but all 4 armors are pretty much the same and they mostly just get used to find secrets or as a second health bar. Zero is basically just a modified buster (and third health bar). The devs didn't have enough ideas for 8 cool robot masters so there's a number of uninspired bosses and a couple of the boss weapons are just redundant. Hell, the drill power is just pointless except for finding a couple secrets. The secret hunting is also pretty bad since you have to collect everything in a prescribed order. The head part and body part both require the arm part and specific weapons, and the arm part requires both the leg part and a different specific weapon. It defeats the point of having 8 levels to choose from when there's one 'correct' order to play the levels in. Cutting some content would honestly be the best thing for X3 I think, maybe even go to 6 bosses instead of 8.

As for stage design, I think there are plenty of great stages from Mega Man games, just not X1 lol (to be fair I do like the highway intro stage). Cyber Peacock and Storm Owl stages in X4, Tidal Whale and Burn Dinorex in X5, Infinity Mijinion and Rainy Turtloid in X6, to name a few off the top of my head. Nearly all the stages in MM3/4/8/9 are good-to-great. The stages are the main appeal frankly. The weapons tend to be quite gimmicky, although I do prefer the games where the weapons are somewhat balanced. Nobody is fucking playing MM2 because they like the weapon/boss variety; there's only one weapon that matters in that whole game and the bosses are so bad that 2 of them are literally RNG (you can and should exploit a glitch to beat one of them ).

[Air Master Burst]

I went through a phase for a while where I thought X3 was the best in the series, but it lost its luster over time. There's tons of content, which is awesome, but way too much of it is half-baked.

The half-baked aspect is probably why I like it best. I also love the secret hunting and multiple paths in Rondo of Blood, which are also kind of half-baked. I think these games go as far as they can with the secret hunting without compromising the action. X4 is actually kind of a step back in this regard, as the endings are fixed and there isn't anything nearly as cool as the Z saber/Zero ending stuff from X3. X5 brought it back with the Enigma cannon and space shuttle parts, which a lot of people hate but I kind of adore.

[Sumez]

Regarding X1 I'll subscribe to both ideas. It definitely shows Capcom fumbling around with a bunch of different ideas and no clear consistent vision.
But yeah, it's also a fantastic well crafted game that felt like a well needed "upgrade" to the Mega Man formula. I don't know if it's among the best action games ever, but it's definitely a fantastic game. Not quite on the level of the better NES iterations, but it deserves praise at least for doing something new - which I'd also argue wouldn't have happened if Capcom hadn't been so frivolous with throwing various concepts and mechanics into the game.

I'm not sure I would say Mega Man Zero nailed its balance, really. I actually replayed those games last month for the first time in some years, and for all their strong points I don't think they're especially refined.

I kept quiet, because there seems to be a surprisingly large crowd who just worship the MMZ games, but I agree completely, positing that series as an example of "doing challenge right" really comes off as blinded by some kind of bias to me, because I'd consider them examples of the exact opposite. Inti Creates always had trouble nailing challenging 2D action gameplay, typically swerving somewhere between easy mindless forward trucking, and tedious rote memorization, and the issues you mention with the MMZ games tends to fall into the latter category.
The handling of their characters definitely feels absolutely spot on like you mention, this is true for nearly all of their games, but the level and enemy design is what usually lags behind.

But I'll agree with Sima Tuma at least that there was a massive quality gap between Zero 1 and 3. 1 just isn't a good game in too many ways, and 2 had its problems as well. Although still super overrated, I'd say MMZ3 is where the series managed to become somewhat enjoyable, even if I still prefer 4.

[Sumez]

I also love the secret hunting and multiple paths in Rondo of Blood, which are also kind of half-baked.

If there's one qualifier I never thought I'd hear about Rondo it's definitely "half-baked".

[Steven]

One of my friends IRL thinks that Rondo is a rushed and half-finished 6.5/10 game with 12/10 music and graphics... I can kind of see the argument, but I still think Rondo is one of the better games in the series, even if it is a bit too easy, even with Richter. I wish Rondo had a harder difficulty or a second loop... and I only just now realized that the game doesn't loop.

[BIL]

I find Rondo, like pretty much every console Dracula outside of Castlevania III (NES ver loop is arcade-tough), most compelling when played on one life = one credit rules. The damage scale is actually fairly stern, and it can lead to some pretty tense showdowns, most notably the CV1 boss rush and Shaft. Like all the best trad CVs, this also really brings out how well-designed a game it is for how mercilessly it treats player errors.

They're not really games I look to for absolute difficulty anymore, outside of the aforementioned CVIII Loop, and Vampire Killer/Bloodlines, which has its fiendishly high performance ceiling via Super Shinobi/Alien Soldier prestige play. It's more about enjoying classically punishing twitch/method action-platforming within a relatively moderate intensity.

Even if mistakes aren't generally the end of the world, there's a constant air of "Throw out a blind poke or panic-jump and your ass is mine, boy!" Not a vibe I'll always get even from much harder sidescrollers.

If I had a gun to my head, tasked with choosing the ultimate CV, I'd actually nominate Rygar. Immortally riveting action/platformer, fittingly plays nearer Ninja Gaiden than Dracula, but with the 1HKOs, panicky pokes and jumps are just as lethal (if anything, being able to cancel and bend your way out of anything only adds to the white-knuckle intensity, the sense there's always some way out of a tricky corner).

I've been mucking about with Rank 4/4, and while I think 2/4 is more than sufficient, it's amazing how crisply-designed its max setting remains while unleashing absolute BeastManMageddon on the player. One of those rare AC titles where the devs actually intended the full spectrum of difficulties to be viable.

When the game strikes just the right balance of making an ability very strong yet still demands the player use it correctly, you get a more direct feeling of the power because you're directly involved in making it powerful.

Impeccably put - I was thinking of this a lot while breaking through deadly gridlocks with Rygar's still industry-leading DARKNESS BOP. (that is, hop n' bop in DEADLY COMBAT PLATFORMER context ) You've got the 1HKO on even the mightiest foes, and the i-framed escape somersault, but whether you leverage that short-lived, player-generated burst of unstoppable momentum and forge ahead, or panic and die, is up to you sonny!

Carve your own LEGENDARY STOLY into the rugged stone

Spoiler

[Sumez]

One of my friends IRL thinks that Rondo is a rushed and half-finished 6.5/10 game with 12/10 music and graphics... I can kind of see the argument, but I still think Rondo is one of the better games in the series, even if it is a bit too easy, even with Richter. I wish Rondo had a harder difficulty or a second loop... and I only just now realized that the game doesn't loop.

Damn, a Rondo loop 2 would be a god damn wet dream come true. Could easily take the #1 CV game spot for anyone who doesn't already have it there.

Time to get modding? Sour just made a PCE emulator in Mesen with the same debugging features as his NES and SNES emulators, so PCE hacking should be hell a lot easier from this point out.

[Air Master Burst]

I also love the secret hunting and multiple paths in Rondo of Blood, which are also kind of half-baked.

If there's one qualifier I never thought I'd hear about Rondo it's definitely "half-baked".

The game as a whole isn't, but the secrets kind of are.

ETA: also has anyone played that wiiware Castlevania Rebirth game?

[Sumez]

Rebirth is great. It might not be on the same level as most of the other classicvanias, but don't let that keep you from using any means to dig up a copy to play.

[__SKYe]

Megaman Zero 1 is really nice overall, though I think it's undeniable that the sequels improved quite a bit on it, including MZ2.

The escort part kinda sucks, but it only happens once and is only half the level, really. Many levels aren't too inspired but they're not that bad either.
The bigger problems with MZ1 are the weapon level and grinding and collecting crystals, especially since elemental attacks must be charged, and the sabre charge attack has to be unlocked (I think you can use charged buster shots from the get-go, or at least a weaker variety) and elemental attacks make bosses much easier. Having to feed cyber-elves crystals before being able to use them also sucks.

It has its odd things too, like the overworld and being able to skip missions, though those are just nitpicks. Getting your rank tanked by using cyber-elves is also not a problem; just don't use them if you care about rank.

It also does some things nicely from the get go. Most bosses are a lot of fun to fight, they already have their special attack if your rank is higher than B (though you don't get any weapons from them yet). It also has one of the best 1st bosses of any 2d action games (not the intro golem, the timed one) -- what a challenge to start the game.

Battle network 1, 2, 3 and 6 are pretty great games; each has its share of fluff (some more than others), but personally, the draw has always been the combat and it is mostly great on all of these.

BN1 is somewhat easier than the rest; protoman is easier than in later games, the final boss is fairly easy too. Sharkman is perhaps the hardest one (certainly among the most annoying to fight) even accounting for the optional bosses. There's only one major caveat with BN1 -- you can't escape battles normally, only by using a specific chip type. This makes the game somewhat more annoying, because you're forced to fight every battle. The remake for the DS fixes this but then you have to constantly listen to megaman speak every time you open the menu.

The only other thing I can think off, which makes the game even easier, is that the restriction of only being able to have 3 megachips on your folder doesn't exist yet -- there is a 5 chip restriction like any other chip -- and you can stock on skullman3 chips which are auto-targeting and do ~250 of damage, making the latter part of the game even breezier.

BN3 is probably my favourite among the ones I've played. The main game bosses are not that special, but they are harder overall and so is the last boss which is nice. The real meat, though, is the post-game; both the undernet and Bass are tough and really fun to fight through, though getting to fight Bass is a bit of a pain in the ass.

BN2 and both BN6 versions are really nice as well.

...shit, I didn't realize I hadn't posted anything yet this year!

[BIL]

Hey bud, great to hear from you as always! I've been a thoroughly lazy Task Forcer, this last year. Had a pretty good run in 2021, followed by total burnout and ungodly hours of FromSoft indulgence - this probably speaks to a wider personality flaw. I slept on those games for a decade, I'd earned it, that's my rationalisation.

[__SKYe]

Cheers BIL.
I really didn't think it had been that long but time just seems to fly. Checking back the last few pages, it seems kitten and squire have dropped by too but I missed it.

[Udderdude]

This just launched on Steam and GOG. Might have some potential. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1294 ... o_no_Yami/

[Volteccer_Jack]

Castlevania Rebirth won't inspire worship the way a Rondo or Bloodlines might, but it's still super solid and right at home among the 'classicvania' games.

The bigger problems with MZ1 are the weapon level and grinding and collecting crystals, especially since elemental attacks must be charged, and the sabre charge attack has to be unlocked (I think you can use charged buster shots from the get-go, or at least a weaker variety) and elemental attacks make bosses much easier.

The trick to playing MMZ1 without grinding is to understand how the weapon levelling works. The charged saber is pretty much the best attack in the game, but you can't unlock it until after you unlock the triple slash. And jumping/dashing slashes give less XP toward the triple slash because they divert XP toward the rolling slashes. The Buster has access to the semi-charge shot as soon as you finish the intro stage, and the semi-charge shot diverts XP toward the full elemental charge shot, allowing you to unlock it quickly. You can also use the Shield Boomerang, which is a weak weapon but can perform elemental charges at base level.

Z2 simplified the weapon levelling, but the same idea applies: use the Buster or Boomerang for early access to elemental damage while gradually levelling the saber. Z2 adds the extra wrinkle of Forms which serve a similar role, in that you play early stages in a particular way to unlock new abilities for use in later stages. I like both of these systems because they make routing a lot more interesting, something which Z3/4 noticably lack, even if it's a bit on the esoteric side.

The only other thing I can think off, which makes the game even easier, is that the restriction of only being able to have 3 megachips on your folder doesn't exist yet -- there is a 5 chip restriction like any other chip -- and you can stock on skullman3 chips which are auto-targeting and do ~250 of damage, making the latter part of the game even breezier.

It's basically mandatory if you want to access the secret Bass fight, since getting a high-power Navi chip in your starting hand is the only possible way to S-rank some virus battles, which is the only way to get certain chips. This doesn't apply to the DS remake which both restricts your mega chips and rebalances chip drop requirements, just two of the numerous improvements it made. But it won't be included in the upcoming collection . Pretty unhyped for that since they are probably not gonna localize any of the Japan-exclusive content and the superior way to play will continue to be emulating with fan-made localization patches.

[__SKYe]

The trick to playing MMZ1 without grinding is to understand how the weapon levelling works. The charged saber is pretty much the best attack in the game, but you can't unlock it until after you unlock the triple slash. And jumping/dashing slashes give less XP toward the triple slash because they divert XP toward the rolling slashes. The Buster has access to the semi-charge shot as soon as you finish the intro stage, and the semi-charge shot diverts XP toward the full elemental charge shot, allowing you to unlock it quickly. You can also use the Shield Boomerang, which is a weak weapon but can perform elemental charges at base level.

Oh, I didn't know about this at all, I thought it was just a regular linear xp system.
Either way, what I usually do, if I want the charged sabre earlier, is to go back to the area where you start the game and spawn-kill the spiders that come out from the nests for a few minutes until I get both the triple-slash (which is really nice too) and the charge slash. The rolling slash, I usually have it by the time it becomes more useful, towards the last stretch of the game.

Can you naturally get the charge slash by the time you face an elementally-weak boss (harpuya... and the elephant dude, I think)? I don't remember if I've done it before.

I still think it is a mostly unnecessary feature, at least for the triple/charge slash, especially when elemental attacks require charged shots/slashes.

It's basically mandatory if you want to access the secret Bass fight, since getting a high-power Navi chip in your starting hand is the only possible way to S-rank some virus battles, which is the only way to get certain chips.

I'll have to check my save file but I don't I've unlocked Bass on BN1 yet. I remember fighting the pharaoh dude, and I think shadowman is also a hidden boss (or is he just in BN2... I don't recall for sure)?

It has been a while since I've played these games so I checked again and the chip limit (of the same type) on BN1 is 10 normal chips and 5 navi chips total (which can all be the same chip). BN2 changed this to 5 normal and 3 navi (which I think can all be the same time as well), and it wasn't until BN3 where there's a limit of 4 normal, 5 mega (only 1 of the same type) and 1 giga (total). I think BN3 is where they mostly got the gameplay aspect right; later games changed things a bit, but not as fundamentally.

This doesn't apply to the DS remake which both restricts your mega chips and rebalances chip drop requirements, just two of the numerous improvements it made.

I forgot to post before, but one of the nicer improvements was the minimap. I've always found BN1 in particular to be kind of a pain in the ass to navigate due to all the net maps looking the same.
On the other hand, I was pretty disappointed with it, because I was expecting more of a combination or BN and SF and instead it's just BN1 with a small extra chapter. As a BN1 remake it is pretty sweet, though, excepting the voice clips.

[BrianC]

If you have Micro Mages on Steam, I recommend checking for updates and the directory's ROM folder for a nice surprise! Also, Freedom Planet 2 is out now.

[Volteccer_Jack]

Can you naturally get the charge slash by the time you face an elementally-weak boss (harpuya... and the elephant dude, I think)? I don't remember if I've done it before.

All 3 bosses available after Aztec Falcon have elemental weaknesses, with 2 of them being weak to the Elec chip you got from Falcon. If you play Buster-only, under perfect rank conditions and without any grinding, the Buster will level up and gain the elemental charge shot in the middle of the first boss you fight after Aztec. Exact timing will vary, there's enough leeway in the mission timer to grind out the level up a bit early for example. Under the same conditions, the Saber will need at least one more stage than the Buster before it unlocks the charge attack. It would require an unnatural playstyle of refusing to use jump or dash slashes, but you could reasonably get the charged Saber online in time for the second of those 3 bosses, if that was your goal. In my own S-rank runs I liked to aim to have all 4 weapons able to perform charge attacks before fighting any of the 4 Guardians (Harpuia and pals), which takes a bit of planning but doesn't require any playstyle contortion.

I'll have to check my save file but I don't I've unlocked Bass on BN1 yet. I remember fighting the pharaoh dude, and I think shadowman is also a hidden boss (or is he just in BN2... I don't recall for sure)?

Fighting Bass in BN1 requires having the entire chip library collected except for LifeAura, which is the prize for beating him. And yeah, Shadowman is in BN1, so you need all his chips to make Bass appear.

On the other hand, I was pretty disappointed with it, because I was expecting more of a combination or BN and SF and instead it's just BN1 with a small extra chapter. As a BN1 remake it is pretty sweet, though, excepting the voice clips.

For me, after playing the later games, BN1 is too much of a mess to enjoy. Shooting Star fixes so much stuff. Like basically all the melee chips are worthless in BN1, but OSS gives you Starforce Megaman and suddenly all those sword chips become good. And bad chips getting buffed and chip codes being rearranged to be semibalanced, etc., makes it a lot more playable.

[__SKYe]

All 3 bosses available after Aztec Falcon have elemental weaknesses, with 2 of them being weak to the Elec chip you got from Falcon. If you play Buster-only, under perfect rank conditions and without any grinding, the Buster will level up and gain the elemental charge shot in the middle of the first boss you fight after Aztec. Exact timing will vary, there's enough leeway in the mission timer to grind out the level up a bit early for example. Under the same conditions, the Saber will need at least one more stage than the Buster before it unlocks the charge attack. It would require an unnatural playstyle of refusing to use jump or dash slashes, but you could reasonably get the charged Saber online in time for the second of those 3 bosses, if that was your goal. In my own S-rank runs I liked to aim to have all 4 weapons able to perform charge attacks before fighting any of the 4 Guardians (Harpuia and pals), which takes a bit of planning but doesn't require any playstyle contortion.

Cheers, that sounds good.

Fighting Bass in BN1 requires having the entire chip library collected except for LifeAura, which is the prize for beating him. And yeah, Shadowman is in BN1, so you need all his chips to make Bass appear.

Ah, right, now I remember why I haven't fougth Bass -- I never got around to collecting all the chips. I don't think I fought Shadowman either, though.

For me, after playing the later games, BN1 is too much of a mess to enjoy. Shooting Star fixes so much stuff. Like basically all the melee chips are worthless in BN1, but OSS gives you Starforce Megaman and suddenly all those sword chips become good. And bad chips getting buffed and chip codes being rearranged to be semibalanced, etc., makes it a lot more playable.

Yeah, as a remake of BN1 it is pretty sweet all around.

[Sumez]

Seems the next Tengo Project game is gonna be Kage.

I'd probably have preferred to see their take on Shatterhand, but I'm just happy to see them take on an action platformer, there's no way it's gonna be bad. Besides, both of those are games that could really do well by a fixed-up update that cleans out their flaws, and expands on the concept.

[BIL]

Ahh, beauty. I knew that game wasn't far from their hearts, with Hayate all present and correct in that badass artwork Taniguchi made for the project.

[Sima Tuna]

By Kage, do you mean Legend of Kage? That's a pretty cool game (and highly influential) which will benefit greatly from the kind of total remaster Tengo Project give to games. Considering how much they improved/added to Ninja Warriors Once Again and KiKi KaiKai SNES, just imagine what they can do with Kage. It could potentially be their best release yet.

[BIL]

Good question I'm guessing from Sumez mentioning its fellow Natsume FC Power Trio member (alongside Dragon Fighter), Shatterhand/Solbrain, that they're remaking the game known as Shadow Of The Ninja (NTSCU), Blue Shadow (PAL), or Yami no Shigotonin Kage (NTSCJ).

The FC version's materials (and title screen) have a massive "KAGE" with tiny wispy kanji for the "Dark Professionals" subtitle, hence the common mixup. (that and the name Kage/"Shadow" being nearly as common among ninja IPs as "Shinobi" and "Ninja" itself)



I actually ordered the Natsume game from a good buddy in Japan, BITD, and received a pristine FC copy of Taito's game instead - which I assured him was A-OK by me, despite him apologising profusely like any good Dark Professional. FC Legend of Kage is supremely lovable work.

Now you mention it, it would be rad as all hell to see guys like Natsume update something so iconic as Taito's Kage. While Saigo no Nindou very much built off it, the introduction of batshit Contra+Gradius-grade firepower resulted in a very different game, nearer Metal Slug than its ninja inspiration.

Personally, the Taito IP I'd love to see them have a crack at is Elevator Action... feels like after EAR, they'd have a sterling chassis to build off of. Hell, just a straight EAR remake would rock. With its "bird's eye" / "dollhouse" POV, it's the kind of game that'd actually benefit from modern display res and ratio.

[Sima Tuna]

Ah, well if it's Shadow of the Ninja, that's also a good game. But I still think legend of kage is the kind of property they should be updating. Something so undeniably old that most normies will be put off from giving it a fair shake. Yet which was immensely influential on scrolling action games for decades to come, and still holds within it some impeccable game design.

When it comes to Elevator Action, you're preaching to the choir. But I've already made my argument many times over that I feel Huntdown was that iteration upon the EAR formula. So, while I would welcome the Ninja Warriors Once Again team taking a crack at EA or EAR, I'm satisfied with Huntdown. Huntdown is for me what Ninja Spirit is for Birru-san.

[BIL]

That's a very timely reminder, as I picked up Huntdown expressly on your recs a while back, having long been impressed by Stevens's coverage. That one's top of the list when I get to work on the small (but formidable!) R2RKMF backlog I acquired over the past year.

Come to think of it... this is kind of Kage III, if we include the Game Boy installment. Which was released under the Ninja Gaiden / Ninja Ryukenden banner, as NG Shadow / NR: Matenrou Kessen, but was very obviously built from a Kage II chassis. The final product has some NG influences, namely the far simpler weapon and subweapon systems (an improvement on Kage's somewhat convoluted approach, imo), but plays with the more deliberate pace and setpiece-geared enemy designs of Natsume's game, as opposed to NG's trademark sprint and near-global 1HP enemies.

(also shares Kage's final boss BGM Hiroyuki Iwatsuki's BGM being a standout feature of the FC game, much as in every Natsume game he's soundtracked

Dig this SFC fire )

My favourite feature are its punishing explosions on large enemies - some of the most Yagawa-carnivalesque pyro of any 2D game, portable or otherwise. BaBaBaBaowBaowBLAOWWW! The final stage's opening suspension bridge is an absolute joy to take down at high speed, using the slick hanging grip to slice under would-be interceptors, leaving a trail of screen-shaking pyro in Ryu's wake.

I wonder what approach the new game will take, with its powerups and subweapons. Knowing Tengo project, there'll be at least a couple new faces, potentially many more. Ahh, man... I hope Taniguchi still has his Tecmo contacts. I want 'em to bring Ryu back in his classic blue gi, for GB loyalists.

[Sumez]

Yeah, sorry I meant Shadow of the Ninja.

Speculation source is this Twitter post from GSK, but others have pointed out the same: https://twitter.com/gosokkyu/status/1570705703282806784
(scroll up to see the official post from Tengo)

Ahh, beauty. I knew that game wasn't far from their hearts, with Hayate all present and correct in that badass artwork Taniguchi made for the project.

Spoiler

Wow, I've never seen that before :O
Who's the girl in the center of the picture? I'm not sure I can place her.

[BIL]

It's a rad piece, ain't it - I knew when I saw its ferocious UBERMACHO vibrance, we were headed into a prosperous new era.

I think he's some little twinky JRPG dude, from an (IIRC) very big-in-Japan adventure game that never left the country. There's another game of theirs like that, Doki Doki Idol something-or-other (not to be confused with SNK's skeevy DS games). I remember someone, I think it might've been GSK, mentioning that it, too, was quite a hit for them in JP, despite being completely and utterly apart from their globally-renowned action games.

EDIT: Little dude was the cover star for Vol.1 of the superlative Rom Cassette Disc In Natsume collection; might shed a little light.

[Sumez]

Bold of me to assume his gender

I love how the Shatterhand guy absolutely dwarfs Clint from Wild Arms in that rendition! Also just serves to cement that Shatterhand is globally the canon incarnation of that game, not Solbrain. You just can't reject punching bullets to stop them mid-air.