Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Sumez]

Moo Mesa honestly feels nothing like Contra.

Sunset Riders/Mystic Warriors is more along those lines, but since my Sunset Riders PCB still doesn't work I'll only speak for Mystic Warriors (but I'm assuming SR shares most of the same tendencies) - it feels less "tight" as an action game, and the larger player sprite (along with its larger hitbox) and more clunky in-air mobility makes it feel different.
Mystic Warriors at least is very focused on constantly changing situations and knowing how to deal with each of them, which definitely feels similar to Shattered Soldier and Hard Corps, but not essentially what I think defines Contra in general.

[BIL]

Have to admit I've only given Mystic Warriors the briefest of decos - I like saving those big landmark titles for either console or eventual PCB play (the former would be out of the question if not for those glorious bastards at Hamster). Got PUMPIN CHOONZ that much I do know

As for Sunset, it really is what Contra Hardcorps would play like if 1) the opening street battle was the rule, not the exception, and 2) it deleted enemy collision. IOW it's fuckin beautiful It also sports some of AC Super's finer details, like burst invincibility on item pickup, and a rather hard second, final loop (though Sunset's innate toughness is nowhere near Super's).

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^ Noobs will go "OMFG CHEETZ," vets know the score

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^ *insert goofy-ass Konami USA timeline here*

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^ Now that is some COWBOY CARNAGE pardner

It truly feels like a third AC Contra, finally exorcised of the first two's stultifying lag. Amusingly, its two character archetypes roughly constitute the OG Contras' dominant weapons. Spreadgun vs Machinegun, though neither is as game-demolishingly dominant here.

[Sumez]

Someone fix my Sunset Riders PCB :3

[BIL]

I wish I could As some small consolation, I will vouch for the ACA ver, as you very helpfully did for Bubble Bobble's (I'd have been incredibly loath to give ACA a chance otherwise, after That Bitch Mihara's infamous Gradius hitpiece). Even reproduces the board's odd, harmless crouch delay - so minor I didn't even know it was there, while doing some fairly tight speedkills, even. Suffice to say SR's controls are frame-sharp otherwise.

[BrianC]

Funny thing is that I assumed that the Genesis port of Sunset Riders was closer in difficulty to the arcade because the bullet speed is meaner in that version, but it turned out the SNES version is actually closer to the arcade difficulty. Even the US AC version retains the modest difficulty in comparison to other Konami games (though it still removes extends and the second loop, IIRC).

[BIL]

AFAIK, the US AC revisions simply loop endlessly - I don't know how the difficulty progresses, would be interesting if they're tougher than the JP loop. I 1CCd the US 2P rev's first loop, so I could keep my practice save in the JP rev, and didn't notice anything different.

The JP loop follows JP Super Contra's example, and basically puts the Difficulty DIP on max. Sunset has a small degree of Rank too - reach Chief Scalpem without dying, and he'll have extra-nasty shuriken bursts. I would guess JP loop keeps the Rank cranked to max, as well... this is what JP Super Contra does.

But yeah, even with all settings maxed, JP Sunset is a relatively easy arcade game - I'd put it around Metal Slug, though it's much better-paced (no endgame hellspike, and it gets tricky much earlier). If you're used to no-missing the first loop, the only things you'll notice in the second are enemies firing a tick faster, and surviving a tick longer. Pretty much all of my first loop strategies copied over fine.

I took a break due to the game's only real flaw, those bonus rounds. They're fine in themselves, actually kinda fun, but they're not what I want in my hardcore action. Would just fail 'em if I could. The first one forms up like Voltron with the second stage's mild autoscroller to hamper early momentum - I wish poor ol' Hawkeye Hank Hatfield had a worthy stage for his blistering duel.

ARRR! YA GOT MEH

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BGM by Motoaki "BURNING HEAT" Furukawa

Picks up fast from there, though. Stages 3, 4, 5 and 6 are rigged to demolish, punctuated by bosses ranging from tricky to outright deadly. Bonus Round 2 is kind of a relief, after that madman Scalpem. The followup autoscroller is what stage 2's should've been - it can kill you - and the final stage is, as GIFfed above, total catharsis, capped off by a model Rolling Thunder showdown. In hindsight, the st2/BR1 stumble is the only thing keeping SR's pacing from perfection. Stage is 1 hugely likeable in itself, fortunately, short and uproariously destructive.

The most cheerfully body-stacking Wild West massacre this side of Wild Guns

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[pegboy]

I don't know why I do this to myself but it's hard for me to quit something I started and already got stupidly obsessed over. And it's Fucking legacy of war of all things.

Real question, does an actual 1cc run (forget no death) of this game even exist?

[BrianC]

doh. I should have checked the game again (especially since I have it on both Switch and PS4). I got mixed up. Thanks for the info.

I was wondering if there were any action games that combine the wild west with somewhat more modern stuff ala Wild Wild West (the TV show, not the movie) and then I remembered that Wild Guns exists.

[copy-paster]

I need to get back with Sunset Riders again, got to Sir Richard Rose once and run ended here. Game's not very hard outside of some tricky spots, Indian stage especially hard but the game gives you three lives on first loop atleast.

[copy-paster]

New video: Metal Slug 5 1LC, I didn't tell anyone here as a surprise . TBH I did not expect the no-miss because of the brutal last two stages bosses, they usually end my run.

Short commentary of each stage:
St1: ResidentSleeper stage yeah, I originally going for Black Hound route but I also wanna get the Slug bonus so I pick other one.
St2: Nice and sweet stage but some of the sections are filler-ish
St3: My favorite of all. Slug Gunner + Intrigue is instant win!
St4: This is where difficulty spike comes in, had to do slow approach at the opening. Defeated Sand Sub with no grenade spam at all, it's popcorn worthy trust me.
St5: Almost missed the Big Shotgun haha and last two bosses are just nuts, glad I blast them through phew.

[Mortificator]

Sweet! I especially like the Slug Gunner enemy baiting in mission 3 and the almost stealth game like approach to mission 5's facility to save shotty ammo for the elephants.

[BIL]

New video: Metal Slug 5 1LC, I didn't tell anyone here as a surprise . TBH I did not expect the no-miss because of the brutal last two stages bosses, they usually end my run.

Sterlingly done, indexed! I gotta say I dread MS5's opening stage more than MS3's final at this point.

[copy-paster]

5's opening isn't really too bad except for boat rush section, you could do some self-imposed challenge like knife only kill for Plotemaic armies. 3's inside the Rugname shmup section isn't even necessary it just drags and useless, should've been cut entirely and jump to their rooms directly.

[BIL]

True, the mass knifer melee is decent stuff. With a few more projectiles/multitasks (more riverside mortars? maybe an appropriately nerfed heli or two...), it'd be quite superb. It's really the section between the opening melee and the interior that lets it down. Not even by all that much, but this is a Neo Slug... we get a lonely heli that can't do much (MS1+4 have these, but they're bookended by foot+floor run/gun) - then waiting on equally helpless hovercrafts (MSX's are harder targets, punishing inaccuracy with nervy homing shots) - then waiting for a near-undefended wall to slowly scroll in.

MS3's own st1 boat autoscroller is nearly as harmless, yet there's so much more happening - speedkilling trucks to wipe out their bombardments, shredding scads of pesky paratroops, doing both without dropping POWs in the drink... crucially, you're rewarded for your efforts with a massive ammo boost. I started using that route simply because it's the quickest way to get the UR GR8 bonus, normally preferring the wrecked ship's absolute speed, but I was surprised at how enjoyable it was to learn.

Job done! And then you get to unload all that hoarded firepower on a monster crab.

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Even then, MS5's isn't all that long, just not something I want to see at the kickoff. I was amazed at how much more likeable MS5 got after I parked a save slot at the Corridor of Fire.

I'm gonna get back to it now that my Yharnam escapade is gradually coming to a close - your comments reminded me of how much I was digging MS5 a while back. Mission 4's opening is legitimately some of the best performative "100% Shootdown" design the series ever saw, and there's a bunch of other stuff I adore too (Slug Gunner deserved its own spinoff game )

COMMANDOOO

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Das it mayne

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[copy-paster]

Another thing 5 gets job done is to have the fourth button available for Slug attack in arcade version, it's one of reason why I always go for AES versions for X and 4. Slug Gunner without the dedicated button might be not as fun.

I have a plan to kick off X and 4 in the near future, and probably re-clear 1 as well to fullfill the completion of "Clear All the Neo Slugs" not sure if I would do 2 even with Turbo hack.

[BIL]

I've tried really hard to play MS2 straight, but it can be soul-crushing. It's not the slowdown, alone, that bothers me - it's the sections where almost nothing's onscreen, and it's still heaving at what feels like 5fps. I'm okay with trudge when the screen is absolutely exploding with burning metal and yowling Rebels, tbh it can feel kinda good. Even MS1+MSX have a fair bit of those scenarios.

To be fair on MS2, it becomes better-populated from Mission 3 onward, though still not quite MSX-stacked. Mission 4's climactic tank massacre may not be as tricky as MSX's UFO skirmish... but my god, the absolute catharsis of seeing five different enemy vehicles in various stages of detonation, the sky almost blotted-out with shrapnel, it's amazing.

MS2's Final Mission is an odd one. It feels like it should be easy, with the cataclysmic slowdown, but I swear it packs an even bigger Mars People onslaught than MSX. Giridas feature heavily throughout, too, where in MSX there's just the one setpiece near the end. It's about as deadly, on balance. Possibly the lack of MSX's extreme firepower. MS2's actually pretty generous with HMGs and Rocket Launchers, but they're basically all you've got - no Laser, Enemy Chaser or Iron Lizards to be found, and Shotguns are still pretty rare.

Hacked to run decently I can get along with it, but running on hardware spec I'd only ever consider it a curio next to MSX.

[copy-paster]

MS2's Final Mission is an odd one. It feels like it should be easy, with the cataclysmic slowdown, but I swear it packs an even bigger Mars People onslaught than MSX.

Last time I played 2 seriously with overclocked like many years ago, and yeah now I remember that the final mission is as brutal. No extra new weapons seems kinda sad and for this I'd rather just skip 2 and go with X.

[BIL]

Definitely go with X first, imo - easily the stronger of the pair, given the slowdown. No sense making yourself miserable with MS2's drudge, and also - strategies formed there aren't going to carry over, given X's radically different stage layouts.

If they ran identically, I'd still call MSX the definitive game. Generally speaking, it does more with more. Tons of new enemies, and new weapons to shred them with, artfully deployed. Would be worth it just for stage 1, a batshit ramrod rout in X, a trial of penance in MS2.

I give MS2's stage design a few wins, here and there. 5.2's subway tank battle is the standout: a pair of pincering Di Cokkas, each supported by an onslaught of grenadiers. Classic design economy, menacing even at hardware speed. MSX poaches one-half of MS1's st4 bosses, then plonks it at the right edge of the screen, supported by grenadiers. It's a credible threat, ever rewarding to crush with hard-earned artillery, but a downgrade to Contra snowfield Zamboni nonetheless. (now I'm wishing they'd imported both Twins...) MS2's fourth mission has similarly double-edged duel with a Rebel Jeep and R-Shobu (I wonder why the former all but vanished from MSX - it's a cool enemy type). These are the flashes of Nazca inspiration that make me call MS2 worth playing, but only as an addendum to the vastly more consistent MSX.

I notice Neo Geo fans (not necessarily Slug fans, or even run/gun fans) can get really violent about MS2. Homies need to post some clears! AGGRESSION AND COMBAT RELEASES THE ANGER

[Sumez]

Oh hell yeah, definitely go for Metal Slug X! Given what you've been doing, it's probably no big obstacle to you.

I flirted with a MSX 1CC last year, but never made too much of an effort before I got distracted by other things. >_> Even then, I think I was at the point where I pretty much just needed to get the final boss down. It's my favourite game in the series, absolutely no contest.

[WelshMegalodon]

If I can already make it through Shadow Dancer MD's third loop in No-Shuriken mode, is it worth trying for the Shinobi Bonus with shurikens on?

(After going back and playing Shinobi AC, of course. It's not too bad, though I wish I knew how to consistently off the knife-wielding grunts with the sword before they off me.)

[BIL]

I've always found Shinobi Bonuses a lot trickier when there's the risk of sniping something due to nerves and/or bad spacing. If I were going for a Level 3 All SBs run, or something similar, I'd probably use No Shuriken mode to learn the basic layouts, then enable shuriken for the finished run.

As to whether it's worth it, all I'll say is I love Shadow Dancer MD aside from those way-overfrequent bonus rounds.

[Blinge]

Well I finished Wonderboy III on hardmode and got all cheeves, so that's a thing.. that happened.

[Vanguard]

Hard mode adds a time limit right? What did you think of that? Any other changes?

[Vanguard]

New Bombservice game announced under the name Momodora: Moonlit Farewell. Hopefully this is more Reverie than it is Minoria. They've gone back to pixel art, which is good.

[Rastan78]

I've always found Shinobi Bonuses a lot trickier when there's the risk of sniping something due to nerves and/or bad spacing.

The M2 Switch Shinobi thoughtfully lets you assign a separate melee and shuriken button. Helps prevent those embarrassing premature starjaculations.

[WelshMegalodon]

Took a detour from the arcade-style Shinobis to give The Super Shinobi another go. I can't decide whether I like this game or hate it - BIL really wasn't kidding when he mentioned its severe case of offscreen shooter syndrome. Mechanically, I think it's solid, and I'm a big fan of the cross guard and increased melee range you get from POW, but as many others on this forum have mentioned, the level design is sometimes awkward and even frustrating. 3-2 and 4-2 come to mind as some of the worst offenders, but 5-1's laser-ridden balconies are no slouch, either.

While I've seen the impressive No-Shuriken playthrough that was linked here some years ago, I still feel like the game isn't balanced around exclusive use of the sword. Am I correct in observing that you don't get any extra points for not using shurikens in a stage?

[Sumez]

It's ok to hate it :3

[BIL]

First pass is a handful, yep. 3; Somewhat the same for its sequel. Super Shinobi II isn't quite as devious about shooting you in the face from offscreen (and if you're playing in Six Button Mode, you can block on reaction). Still, gotta learn the basic stage layouts before you can hold onto POW and jump around / get down.

In hindsight, I suggest using the Shield magic early on - will greatly extend your POW time, and also let you stick your neck out a bit without getting punished for it. The Jump magic is only really vital at one infamous point (foot of post) and neither attack magic is all that useful. Fond memories of noob friends resorting to x3 suicide BOMBA to deal with Godzilla, bahaha.

I love their mechanical suites, and the stages do genuinely reward mastery with rocketing bodycounts and vaulting ninja movement (compare to the ruefully misjudged Dynamite Batman, where your reward is typically not getting shot in the face anymore). However, I rate the vastly better-framed Vampire Killer and Alien Soldier a cut above for assault course sidescrolling. The latter is my favourite of the subgenre; shorter learning climb to competence, but much higher skill ceiling to completely demolish the course.

I've always found Shinobi Bonuses a lot trickier when there's the risk of sniping something due to nerves and/or bad spacing.

The M2 Switch Shinobi thoughtfully lets you assign a separate melee and shuriken button. Helps prevent those embarrassing premature starjaculations.

Nice. I'd have been fine with the OG cab using three buttons: [shot] [jump] [melee] with magic on A+C. I think Super Shinobi would benefit from this.

[Rastan78]

Nice. I'd have been fine with the OG cab using three buttons: [shot] [jump] [melee] with magic on A+C. I think Super Shinobi would benefit from this.

Another nice feature they added (aside from a handy level select for practice) is an onscreen indicator of whether you still have the shuriken bonus active. It can be easy to forget if you've let one shuriken slip.

I guess I have mixed feelings about the melee button since it's really helpful and far less frustrating to use, but it also takes a lot of the tension out of those proximity based melee attacks and timing is less strict. Either way it's a very smart option to include, and ofc leaderboards are separated.

Probably an effficient approach for masochists who want to chase a no shuriken run on the original arcade Shinobi is to use the Switch port to perfect your routes using the melee button enabled. Then go back to full default controls and perfect your timing and execution once you have your overall strategies down. No shuriken is a complete bitch in this game, so smoothing out the learning curve can only be a good thing.

One thing I'm not sure about is if all the glitches still work in the default arcade mode. In an interview I read M2 removed the 256 shuriken glitch, but it was unclear if they were talking about only in the Ages mode. I guess I don't need to worry about it too much since I don't have the skill to count shurikens and activate the glitch anyway. Apparently the trick is to use autofire and you will always fire in bursts of 4 (bc of the onscreen shot limit). So you can count the bursts x4 rather than each individual shuriken.

[pegboy]

I finally fucking cleared this piece of shit game legacy of war. Surely this is the hardest "contra" game ever made although I guess I haven't played its ridiculous sequel yet so maybe it gets even worse?

There are literally no 1cc runs on youtube, and I've only ever seen 1 legit run that was "beaten" using continues and no save loading. And that run was the speedrun "world record", which I beat by like 15 minutes lol since nobody fucking plays this game.

And please nobody post that total fraud nintendocomplete's "run". That is the fakest shit I have ever seen. I can't believe that clown even tries to pass that shit off as real.