Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Sima Tuna]

Oh yeah, I noticed that music in Dogo right away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HMfb4E51OM

I really need to highlight how amazing the soundtrack for Dogosoken is. Guevara's is great too. TANK's biggest negative is the lack of music. As in, this was apparently such an early arcade title for SNK that it lacks a background track during stages. I am pretty sure the NES version has music all the time, but the arcade game does not. A shame, but you can always crank up the Guevara OST while playing and you'll have the correct general fit for the game's tone. There are some unused music tracks for TANK floating around out there, but they suck ass. The problem is the quality of the tones themselves, not so much the compositions. I can see why the tracks weren't used. The loops are very short and too high-pitched to be comfortable on the ears.

But back to how much Dogosoken's music rules. All of the tracks are great. Ikari Warriors has one track. It's a fantastic little marching number, but still... It's one track. And then there are a few 10ish second loops for game over, name entry, title screen etc. And one boss theme for all boss fights in the game. Ikari Warriors is about 15 minutes long. The main musical track is four minutes long. So, y'know, even if you were on a 1cc no-miss pace, the song would loop a few times. Dogosoken has multiple stage themes, by comparison. All of them excellent. I think Run to the Field is the best one, but they're all worth listening to. I was surprised how few results youtube provided when searching Victory Road's ost. The internet is usually pretty savvy about finding excellent music hidden in obscure video games.

[BIL]

I was surprised how few results youtube provided when searching Victory Road's ost. The internet is usually pretty savvy about finding excellent music hidden in obscure video games.

Yeah, even by post-internet standards, where there's relatively little in terms of truly "hidden" gems, this one seemed genuinely obscure. I distinctly recall the point where the game decisively clicked with me, that uber-gratifying armoured charge into stage 2, with "Run To The Field" just about audible over a cacophony of explosions, death-hollers and ricochets. (I just wish you could hear Ralf's badass KOF-prefiguring "YOSH! IKUZO!" battle cry at the start of each round, rather than exclusively after dying! would go great after the big bad's equally theatrical "OWARI DA" )

As always, SuperDeadite knows what's up

[Stevens]

Dogo's ost is amazing. Last I checked there is one video on Youtube of it.

Edit - two now.

[BIL]

karanba72 is a right chap IIRC he has two versions, a cassette tape rip and a later CD one which is mastered a bit louder (really brings out those pummelling chords). So many killer soundtracks in powerhouse quality. (of course the MD version of Vapor Trail is the definitive, just like Midnight Resistance and Crude Buster, but I like that glassier, samplier AC sound occasionally and karanba's the man for the job, much like Dustin is for the MD stuff )

[Sima Tuna]

We really need Dogo's soundtrack remixed and re-recorded in high quality. Not saying I want a "metal cover," more like those orchestral arranges with some electric guitar. I'd also like to bass boost the shit out of those tunes. Run to the Field with real drums and hella loud bass is needed.

Guevara's music is great too, btw. Very somber but quite enjoyable. Coal Mine is probably my favorite. I only wish there was more of it.

The part of that SNK interview about the head SNK guy loving tanks is pretty neat. Sounds like that played a role in SNK adding tanks to all of their games for a while. Gonna have to thank him for that. Good tank games of any stripe are thin on the ground, and rolling over scrubs in my mighty VIVA LA REVOLUTIONmobile never gets old.

[Blinge]

The saviour we've all awaited is here.

The new age of 2D side scrolling action
It's time you idiots stopped living in the past. Old losers clinging to a dead art form on a forum of all things! a dead platform!
out with the old, in with the new. It's time to bring NinjaGaiden clones into the new millenium.

THUS SPAKE OBSCURA
(spake, not make)

Ninja Noboken - New Ninja Gaiden Like 2.5D Side Scroller Fast-paced Action-Adventure Game

Spoiler

ninja nob indeed

[BIL]

Always good to see new dispatches from our wandering maestro of Texan Death Metal, hope he's doing ok out there.

I wonder if that's these guys? Looks better in some ways (more original), worse in others (older video's Barbarian @ JAYS BAR looks quite aight, newer one's model is like fucken Grimace @ MICKEH DEES or were they going for a Game Gear aesthetic...)

Likeable work either way, though both's animations seem to lack the defining snap of the real thing. Not that I regard polygonal scrolling action as innately flawed - Shin Contra and Gradius V's input response and collision are easily as tight as their 2D forebears, if not even moreso - but then again, those are shooting games. When it comes to twatting varmints square on the nose (OR ELSE), I like the classic "skipped frames" approach (a principle as old as 2D animation itself). Conveys superhuman accuracy & velocity while facilitating airtight action.





By the time they see it, they're already dead! :O



I like ASW's approach in them thar newer Guilty Gears and DB FighterZ, with the deliberate skipped frames for classic aesthetic and functionality alike. Looks rad when the camera goes spinneh-mah-winneh during knockouts. ¦3

[Udderdude]

I like ASW's approach in them thar newer Guilty Gears and DB FighterZ, with the deliberate skipped frames for classic aesthetic and functionality alike. Looks rad when the camera goes spinneh-mah-winneh during knockouts. ¦3

When are we going to see this in a beltscroller? Would be nice, lol.

[BIL]

IKR Would work a treat with either oldschool gritty or newschool chibi Kunio, to say nothing of Double Dragon. Arc even own the rights to Technos's catalogue! I still need to try out Double Dragon IV, now that you remind me. Liked what Sima reported of it, and it receiving a very late patch was encouraging.

[Ed Oscuro]

I think high frame rates are the future here. Working around the arbitrary limitations of 60Hz video is really not a given for the far future of gaming genres. So sure, you can drop frames, but why bother when you can get that sweet photo-finish at 240Hz and up? You still have the option of using visual cues for inputs and the like; it's just on a faster pace.

Of course, I think the reason 60Hz sticks around is that it is well-supported and a well-understood legacy option. But that's what it is - the old-fashioned way of doing things.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Of course, I think the reason 60Hz sticks around is that it is well-supported and a well-understood legacy option. But that's what it is - the old-fashioned way of doing things.

I dunno, given that we're still seeing modern console releases that only run at 30 FPS instead of all games aiming for 60 FPS as the standard, it doesn't even feel like 60 FPS is that old-fashioned. 30 fps sucks and I hate it

[Ed Oscuro]

Yeah, but this thread is explicitly not about the latest Assassin's Creed or Elder Scrolls games, so...

and yeah 30 fps sucks, if anything you should put that in a huge font. Every time I play through a game at 30 fps I have to take frequent breaks for headache mitigation...and I'm not some kind of god gamer or something, there's no question of that.

[Blinge]

Obscurer and I were hoping BIL would be enraged at that ninja gaiden ripoff

[BIL]

Hm?



Sorry to disappoint, young Burinju 3; Before I knew it, I was an old codger with rage only for the battlefield.

The Theme Of Old Dr. Biruford

If it's any consolation, I'll be playing Dark Souls II soon, so who knows what old grudges that might stir up, far from this comfy old den's respite from The Hard Scrolling Action. ;3

[Sengoku Strider]

I won a copy of Alien Soldier on a Japanese auction site this morning. This has long been one of those "Maybe someday, I'd absolutely love to, but..." titles for me. Along with things like Hyper Duel, Sapphire, Slug X & Blazing Star that were way too expensive to be a sensible purchase before the pandemic, and have since ballooned in price and floated even further away from realistic ownership.

But I somehow lucked into a loose copy for the equivalent of ~$170 USD, which means that now I must embark upon a quest to locate the lost instructions and case. In order to complete the heirloom for my future descendants, that the post-collapse world may know them as true nobility by their sacred regalia.

Anyway, I'm super-stoked to lock myself in a room for a month with no other games to finally try & git güd at this one.

[BIL]

Hey, congrats! One of my three sacred treasures.



If you end up wanting a primer post, I'm pretty confident in this one (no spoilers).

Rock-solid technical sidescroller - don't be fooled by its mainstream rep as some kinda survivalist meatgrinder, it's really more of an "Assault Course" performance piece (I file Castlevania Bloodlines and the three Super Shinobis in the same bracket; unscathed performance = bigger guns = faster kills, up and up). Or to use Treasure's own designation: COMBAT SHOOTING. (Gunstar's shot/strike/grapple action likewise, though it and AS are otherwise very different). Epsilon's quite durable; it's your blazing prestige that hangs in the balance.

[Volteccer_Jack]

Whew, okay, Blaster Master Zero 3. What a game.

Our setting is the planet Sophia, a short time after the events of BMZ2, and 10 years after the events of Metafight. Yes, it is now explicit that while Blaster Master Zero is a remake of Blaster Master, it's also a direct sequel to Metafight, with the two protagonists meeting early on. The plot this time revolves around Jason's search for Eve in the middle of a sudden mutant invasion, regularly travelling between normal space and "super-dimensional space" thanks to a new gameplay mechanic, all while Sophia's own military considers Jason an enemy.

The tone is more urgent than past games, and I'm not talking only or even especially about the dialogue. The first stage is an escape from an overrun military base, and right from the start, BMZ3 asks far more of the player than either of BMZ1 or 2. Trickier enemy types appear earlier and more frequently, and the very first boss fight is a buffed version of a lategame BMZ1 boss. Even just in terms of navigation, stages are larger and more intricate than ever, with portals between normal and "super-dimensional" space presenting two different versions of the same area, similar to parallel world mechanics in games like Metroid Prime 2 or Link to the Past. In side-scrolling areas, super-dimensional space plays around with various gimmicks depending on the stage. In top-down areas, super-dimensional space uses procedural generation, changing up enemies, hazards, and map layouts with each visit; only the main story bosses are excepted from this. Speaking of bosses, several of them feature a new double battle mechanic, fighting the boss first in one of top-down or side-view, then switching views and finishing the boss off with your other moveset, which is just cool as hell and has big sentai energy.

Of course the player's arsenal has been upgraded to deal with all this. The fun impact recharge mechanic from BMZ2 returns, but main cannon and subweapons have now been split into two separate energy meters. This allows much more aggressive weapon usage, as you can happily push one system to the point of shutdown, safe in the knowledge that you can rely on the other system in the meantime. Recharges and energy pickups refill both meters at once so energy management is kept simple and easy. Momentum and jump arc have been re-tuned as well, making the tank even more satisfying to drive, if you can believe it. A rather unique new upgrade is a sort of reverse of Metroid's morph ball; the tank can prop itself up on legs, granting an elevated position and more precise control than wheeled motion, at the cost of being too large to enter certain pathways.

Top-down gameplay has been overhauled. Jason now has a dedicated dash button, and 5 weapons to choose from which are available at any weapon level. They each power up in slightly different ways and stand out at certain levels, and at max level all 5 weapons are thrillingly powerful, so you can comfortably use any or all of them according to your tactical needs or preference. A slight nerf has been applied to the blast counter; attempting a counter with no valid target will fail and put the ability on cooldown briefly. Successful counters don't trigger this cooldown, so blast counters remain dominatingly powerful but now require more careful usage. Two pro tips for masterful blasting: dashing (even in place) resets the lock-on weapon to let you quickly retarget, and after any successful blast counter there is a brief window where the standard blaster can fire fully charged shots without charging.

BMZ3 sets out to be a grand finale, and for my money it fully succeeds. It's a bigger, harder, more elegant, and more energetic gameplay experience, with a ton of variety and excellent bosses. Topped off with a true ending path that would best be described as a going away party for the series, featuring not one or two but five (and a half) special postgame bosses, the last two of which are by far and away the best in the series and a spectacular note to end on. A cute story that smoothly ties together the Blaster Master and Metafight worlds and even sets up for Blasting Again, and manages to do so while treating all three with great respect (although a certain tsundere completely steals the spotlight). And it's all set to a top-notch soundtrack, including one very nostalgic standout that by my count incorporates at least four different tunes from the NES game into a single absolute banger greater than the sum of its parts (although both of my personal favorite tracks belong to our tsundere friend).

This game is so completely rad that the guy who came up with "blast processing" was probably a time traveler who wanted to honor BMZ3. Still, I do have a couple minor annoyances which I will now complain about:
- You visit super-dimensional space regularly throughout the game, but it only has one single theme tune that gets overused after a while.
- The big over-the-top lategame laser beam is fine, but it's previously been optional, here it's mandatory. And being mandatory once or twice I wouldn't even mind, but they make you do it like 4 or 5 times which is just too many, especially with how close together they all are.
- The new melee blast counter is a bit too strong and can trivialize stuff. Honestly I think this one shouldn't negate the damage you take to trigger it. Spending HP and even gun levels to use it would attach a necessary cost to such a spammable attack.
- The whole "reverse" gimmick is fun (like that BMZ2 guy being named "Drolrevo" ) but they rreeeaaalllyyy stretch definition of "reverse" here, and it especially makes for very awkward dialogue in a couple story scenes.

I won a copy of Alien Soldier on a Japanese auction site this morning. This has long been one of those "Maybe someday, I'd absolutely love to, but..." titles for me. Along with things like Hyper Duel, Sapphire, Slug X & Blazing Star that were way too expensive to be a sensible purchase before the pandemic, and have since ballooned in price and floated even further away from realistic ownership.

But I somehow lucked into a loose copy for the equivalent of ~$170 USD, which means that now I must embark upon a quest to locate the lost instructions and case. In order to complete the heirloom for my future descendants, that the post-collapse world may know them as true nobility by their sacred regalia.

Anyway, I'm super-stoked to lock myself in a room for a month with no other games to finally try & git güd at this one.

Noice, Alien Soldier is something special.

[BIL]

Excellent to hear you liked it! If it wasn't already #1 on my summer todo list, it would be now (had it sitting around since release, just fell down a rabbithole of alternating Souls & Arcade Archives around the same time... too many games is always a nice problem to have). Indexed.

[Sumez]

Man, you really manage to make BMZ3 sound like hell a lot more than it actually is, but I'm glad you managed to appreciate it this much

I liked the game, but overall found it largely weaker than the mostly tight second game, with especially the top-down segments feeling incredibly lazy in comparison.

[Stevens]

Been playing some SOR 4 and Blazing Chrome. I was able to 1 CC BC on normal and hard when I first played it, but man did I forget a lot. Comes back quick though.

Fantastic R2RKMF's.

[copy-paster]

Lately I've been revisit and doing 1CC on default lives/S-rank attempts of Shin Contra, and this moment right here is the first time I had BS moments since ages. Not sure if S-rank really worth it given some cruel RNGs.

[BIL]

Oof, that's rough. Gotta let the bolts fade away before the drop - I seem to recall discovering this myself when I tried to run over one that was on the floor.

As for Rolling Ball Lance, that one is just a motherfucker. Almost certainly the game's most dreaded attack, and in true trollface fashion, sometimes he won't even use it.

There's a small mercy in the S-Rank run; you can use the Restart option if you screw up to redo a stage, at the cost of one life. It's not much, but in a run this unforgiving anything helps. (in another assholic decision, the game doesn't recognise whether you used all your Restarts or none of them... )

[copy-paster]

I already did S-Rank with restart, but that one just makes I'm feel like cheating

[BIL]

Oh right Yeah, nothing to do but withstand the pain then.

One good thing I got out of that annoying run... it made me get really good at demolishing bosses with the Charged Flamethrower, because I couldn't stand the sight of the bastards. Mission 4 jetski mech is a prime target, you can tear him down a lot faster than the average replay would suggest.

[Sengoku Strider]

Hey, congrats! One of my three sacred treasures.

If you end up wanting a primer post, I'm pretty confident in this one (no spoilers).

Rock-solid technical sidescroller - don't be fooled by its mainstream rep as some kinda survivalist meatgrinder, it's really more of an "Assault Course" performance piece (I file Castlevania Bloodlines and the three Super Shinobis in the same bracket; unscathed performance = bigger guns = faster kills, up and up). Or to use Treasure's own designation: COMBAT SHOOTING. (Gunstar's shot/strike/grapple action likewise, though it and AS are otherwise very different). Epsilon's quite durable; it's your blazing prestige that hangs in the balance.

Thanks. If you or anyone hasn't had a chance to read this interview with Suginami, the game's almost lone developer, it's definitely recommended reading. It's clear this thing was a passion project almost to a degree of madness. He considers it rushed and unfinished, but looking at all that went into it I feel almost an obligation to give it my all. It really seems like the apex of an era of design; 32-bit Treasure never managed to equal its like.

Somewhere, there's an alternate timeline where a competent, passionate and not completely cowardly Sega management said "Whoah, this is awesome! Screw it, take another 18 months to finish it up as a 32X CD title. Yeah, I know hardly anyone will play it, but it's not like we're doing something stupid and insane like making it a Sega Channel exclusive or something."

[BIL]

Yeah, that interview is a beloved gem of blackoak's oeuvre.

Even by the standards of the time, AS's dev cycle sounds so wildly ambitious and brutally harried, I'm amazed the game feels as polished as it does. The only thing I find notably undercooked is (lategame boss spoiler)

Spoiler

WolfGunBlood and his steed GAROPA. They look so cool! What a sweet hat! Cyborg Werewolf on a Robot Horse! I've posted how I'd have liked that fight to go elsewhere - it's not quite the "sentry at the gates of hell" battle (cf Metal Slug X's Allen) the game and enemy design alike deserve.

OTOH, there's powerful consolation in the immortally gratifying Double Phoenix speedkill - one of those "stare down the barrel of the gun" moments that will never fade, perched on a knife edge between blazing victory and utter ignominy. A moment of terrible suspense, gone to ashes in an eruption of gunfire and inhumanly icy riposte, unrivalled killing force asserted in the echo of a heartbeat. A showdown worthy of the most august Mifune or Eastwood picture.

The interview reminds me of Lemmy Kilmister's comment on the runtime restrictions of vinyl LPs versus CDs. By the early 90s, a ~30min album was considered terse - but when it comes to balls-out rock n' roll ala the man's own Overkill or Ace Of Spades, it's plenty. So it goes for arcade-bred action - in fact, with truly searing intensity, I think 15min is entirely acceptable. Guevara, Double Dragon II, Saigo no Nindou... and crossing over to STGs, most of Psikyo's later canon - I've never seen experts begrudge any of these beasts their brevity, and as for everyone else, they're not lasting more than five minutes anyway. The dead don't complain!

While you've got Taromaru matching Gunstar and Soldier kill-for-kill on Saturn, Treasure's own output makes me suspect the MD's restrictions were similarly beneficial. I love Silhouette Mirage and Guardian Heroes both, but even eliminating disc access time, neither long sustains the wordless intensity of the MD Treasure Box trio (inc. Dynamite Headdy; not a foot-to-floor run/gun, but similarly overflowing with ideas at nil cost to pace). I think the most signal example of this is (another lategame spoiler - consideration never goes out of style, kids! also, I believe in overkill ):

Spoiler

Fou's unfortunate reunion with a revenant Kaede, in Act III.

"Psychic pilot of the multiform robot Seven Force. Was actually killed by XiTiger, so now she is a cyborg with a sentient computer brain and has no emotions. When alive, she was Fou's best friend. She is, along with Fou Misaki, one of the X-Ages (terminology for psychic kids). With a particulary strong telekinesis, Nanase Kaede was trained to fight Scarlet as the pilot of the mecha Seven Force."

For years, I'd assumed the ambush was an evil trick on the enemies' part, with Kaede being resurrected/parasitised as their ultimate Alien Soldier. The interview made me wonder if it was just an especially tragic chance encounter. Maybe she was en route to the enemy HQ, too, and simply attacked Priority Target / Enemy Second-in-Command "Epsilon" on sight.

It's one of many things I'm glad is left up to the player's imagination. Either way, from Fou's perspective, an already grueling battle gains a cruel personal edge, giving Soldier's centerpiece duel a blistering narrative heat. The fatal confrontation ending on a conspicuously sentimental, lyrical note - a vanishing glimpse of the setting sun - leaves plenty enough to think on, while we rocket off to the fatal showdown with Cyber Werewolf and his boss, the even more infamous Cyber Lion.

There's so much serendipity at work in this packed cartridge, I love it. You know your game is hardcore when the unskippable midpoint cutscene is not just pardonable, but welcome. (and pretty goddamn hardcore in its own right!)

[trap15]

From what I've heard on the grapevine, NAMI is an absolute lunatic and probably was extremely wasted during that interview; heard he was very often drinking at work.

Maybe that's the source of his power Dude certainly got shit done and got shit done extremely well, can't argue with the results.

[BIL]

Another rock n' roll connection I hope he's doing alright - even Lemmy hit a wall at 65, according to close friends. Or maybe these treasured nutters live entire lives on the wall, their masterpieces resounding long after their eventual falling away.

[Volteccer_Jack]

or perhaps a boss with a hundred transformations—no, even a thousand!—I want to create all of that.

I struggle with the version that's in the game now, I'd never beat a hundred forms!

I liked the game, but overall found it largely weaker than the mostly tight second game, with especially the top-down segments feeling incredibly lazy in comparison.

I'd absolutely agree the procedurally generated sections are pretty lazy. Personally it doesn't bother me, partly because the core top-down gameplay is just so damn fun now, and partly because the improvisational nature of them made a nice foil to the memorization heavy SF dungeons. It's a bit of a shame that the true end requirement encourages you to play the randomized areas and avoid the SF dungeons, IMO the SF dungeons are clearly the best top-down areas.

Re BMZ2, I can't agree about it being "tight". I think that game's defined by a kitchen sink mentality of just putting everything in and not worrying too much about balance. The wildly disparate environments you visit, the oversized arsenal of weapons and gadgets you're given. The top-down mode in particular has a whole bunch of obscure gimmicks like elemental weaknesses and special combos. There's a ton of stuff to see and do in BMZ2, but at the same time a lot of that stuff is redundant or just not very useful. I think of BMZ3 as the more "tight" game because it has much more of a focus on avoiding waste; every weapon and ability has a clear utility distinct from the rest, and stages are densely built with an eye to limiting the amount of filler.

BMZ2's planet Stranga is illustrative here. It's the weakest of the main planets you visit IMO, with clumsy overly gimmicky design, a drill power that's very awkward to use, and excessive backtracking. Much of what you do there feels like a pointless errand, with even the story reinforcing that impression. BMZ3's very similar stage makes a stark contrast. Where BMZ2 has a shopping trip through a bunch of what could almost be called minigames, collecting fruit for no clear purpose, BMZ3 has a gauntlet with a set of straightforward but clever challenges, and completion grants access to two powerful new upgrades.

On a 1 to 5 scale, I put most of the Blaster Master games around a 3 or a strong 2, BMZ2 sitting pretty at 4, and BMZ3 up top with a solid 5.

[BIL]

As is Hamster's wont, a long-awaited ACA release pops up with zero fanfare.



TRIO TEH PUNCH: NEVAR 4GET ME enjoys some repute for its batshit cod-Pythonesque, straight from the same director of the lovably bent Karnov and Chelnov. You'll see, and kill, and sometimes become a lot of weird stuff. It's no novelty piece, however, with tight handling, bitesized killathons, and hectic boss duels more than acquitting. No late-80s masterwork ala Shinobi or Saigo or Daimakaimura, just a memorable fit of madness solidly undergirded by simpler action fare.

While its action is largely workhorse, I'm genuinely very fond of ninja Kamakura's moveset. His head-bopping somersault is great Rygaresque fun, and smartly paired to his shuriken. That might've been awkward, in less responsive games - but as in the aformentioned three classics, your aerial attacks launch with ground-shaving instancy. Vaulting an attacker and sealing their doom in one decisive stroke, the stuff of first-rate action gaming. Speaking of Shinobi, the frame-instant bomb is a further treat, facilitating breakneck risk and, moreover, just fun to drop on even well-thrashed foes.

BOMBAAAAAA (｀w´メ)

Spoiler

Authentically NINJA AF running animation, too

Spoiler

Further extra credit must be given for some impressively catchy BGM from DECO's acclaimed Gama Delic sound team! A potentially very likeable game - recommended for aficionados, entirely irrespective of its indeed hard-to-forget madcap.

Bounce like a Senshi, bomb like Musashi

Spoiler

(ta as always @ TAFA for flyer scans!)