Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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BurlyHeart
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BurlyHeart »

Stevens wrote:Jeezus it's a good time to be a ninja. First Shinobi Non Grata and now I see this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5myccbvXhg

New one from Blazing Chrome's devs. Day one purchase.
Demo up until Oct 10

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1942 ... Moonrider/
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

Thanks for the heads up BH. That demo is legit. Moonrider is going to be good.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Sucks the demo isn't on Switch. Why is it so hard to get game demos on consoles nowadays? XBLA mandated playable demos for every single game on the service, I miss those days.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sima Tuna »

Picked up Door Kickers: Action Squad on a sale. I think it was $3.75? On the one hand, I'm happy the game was so cheap, because I wouldn't have tried it otherwise. On the other hand, selling a game of this quality for such a low price is criminal. :lol: First impressions are very positive. Action Squad is similar to Deadbolt. You are plopped into these building floorplans and must proceed, room-by-room, eliminating threats. In keeping with the Door Kickers theme, you have multiple types of missions. The most common is Hostage Rescue, where you must kill the terrorists/gang members/generic dickheads while rescuing the hostages. To do this requires you tamp down your reckless gun-enthusiasm a bit, as those stray shotgun blasts can murder the fuck out of Jenny McCivvie as easily as they do Donovan O'Druggie. Most rooms have multiple entry points, and you can take additional tactical items into each mission.

The game has multiple playable characters. Each feels like its own proper play style, unique from the others. Personally, I enjoyed using the shotgun-equipped Breacher and the riot Shield girl. The Breacher is pure aggression, sweeping quickly into rooms with explosive door punts that stun enemies and set them up for penetrating slug shots. The Shield is a slow-and-steady kind of lass, plugging away with her pistol from behind her handy-dandy portable cover.

As mentioned, the game has a ton of levels and a few different mission types. Hostage Rescue, Elimination and Bomb Defusal are the main ones I've discovered so far, but there are also high-risk warrants aka boss missions. If you're like me and thought the game seemed kind of mediocre at first glance, give it another chance. It's definitely a strong attempt at blending tactical shooting action (think SWAT 4) with Deadbolt or Hotline Miami's controlled chaotic rampages.

My only major complaint with the game is that it doesn't allow you to rebind controls on console. I wish indie devs would stop pulling this shit. Why? Why would you map jump onto the top face button and not allow me to rebind? Why do you hate me, indie devs?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Ghegs »

Moonrider demo's as good as can be expected. It's like a souped-up Oniken, and the graphics have taken a step up from Blazing Chrome.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by mycophobia »

this stupid room in Vampire Killer stage 4 with the rotating platforms and the mace wielding skeleton guys, where they add in bats on expert mode, is currently the bane of my existence
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Steven »

That's probably the single most difficult room in Vampire Killer. Get through that and the rest of the game is easy, even on Expert. Recovering there with the short whip is really annoying, too, mostly since the short whip in Vampire Killer is stupidly short, but it's possible.

Anyway, I just noticed that Saigo no Nindou is on MiSTer. Hell yes. I bought it on ACA, but I'm definitely going to try it on MiSTer as well.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by XoPachi »

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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Austin »

Finally put Vs. Castlevania's second loop to rest! Also had some pretty good fights in the process. I think BIL would be proud, haha: https://youtu.be/MwkRuH9ch5I (<--Frankenstein's Monster fight with basically just the whip.)
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Beauty. :cool: I actually forgot the stopwatch is totally useless on later bosses, felt a long-forgotten pang of despair at the battle raging on amidst its ticking SFX. :lol:

I almost feel bad demolishing 'em with subweapon cheeze every time - same goes for Death - with their packing what's surely one of the most harrowing Hard 2D Action duels ever. On the other hand, after surviving those Loop 2 catacombs, even the most ardent Hard Gaymer Goodwill is gonna be at absolute fuckin zero - it is for me anyway :mrgreen: Whip-only Frankensteiner Bros and Death are guaranteed drama. (tbh even Bat, Medusa and Mummies can bring heat in VS, given the sadistical damage scale)
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Austin »

Funny enough, the stopwatch actually pauses everything for a frame or two in later fights! Using it at the right time can make the difference between getting smacked by a fireball or not. I actually used it once or twice in that fight, haha.

I wasn't able to get a route down for the loop 2 cave leadup, so I ended up relying on the stopwatch to get through it. Which unfortunately meant doing Frank whip only, but I figured, hey, I've done it whip-only and damage-less multiple times, so let's just make it happen. And BOOM, first try, haha. This game is the best. :lol:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Hoooly crap, I'd no idea the Stopwatch's power only diminishes, rather than disappearing entirely. :shock: I should be used to it by now, but this game keeps surprising me. So many subtleties and quirks packed into its classic twitch/method chassis.

I remember now, my raison d'etre for Loop 2's catacombs was to keep that CheeseWater at all costs. :mrgreen: Hammered out a 99% consistent route, will be relying on that when I settle things with VSC. The very last jump can be dicey - if I'm not quick enough, or not far forward enough on the raft, that last fishman can bump - but I'd gotten it down pretty well, last time I was playing regularly.

Would surely be simpler - albeit far nervier - to just fight the Bros like a man (or maybe hope for a random Axe drop in the garden). :lol:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by mycophobia »

got my expert no miss clear in vampire killer with eric: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-S9xpKfvko

cheesed a couple rooms with the super subweapon for insurance but i was kinda ready to be done lol
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Good thing about VK bombs is you gotta work to get and keep 'em - you deserve a break now and then. :mrgreen: And by break, I mean haul off and burn every last motherfucker in the room where they stand. Image Nicely done! It's a long haul without much meats. I've still not given Eric a proper go after all these years, got a biblical case of one-character/ship/car mind. Leaves lots for later. :cool:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by mycophobia »

yeah i thought about doing a johnny run after i got it but im gonna at least take a break from the game for a while. lest i sound like i didn't like it or something, i think it's a great game and maybe my favorite out of the three vanias ive put significant time into (1, 4, this). its just that the run before that one i no-missed to the last possible pit in the upside down room, after which the run is basically free, and one of those stupid energy balls that rotate around the platforms knocked me into it so i was a little salty
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

Played a tremendous amount of Contra last month, and finally got around to playing the whole series (save Rogue Corps). So I made a ranked list.

Image

In text since the boxarts aren't the most legible:
Spoiler
III, Hard Corps, Uprising
NES Contra, NES Super, Neo, Shattered Soldier
4, Operation C, Rebirth, arcade Contra
Adventure, arcade Super, Force
Legacy of War
Some thoughts:

-The 8-bit, 16-bit, and PS2 games represent one of the best runs a gaming series has had, especially when taken together with the middle tier as solid undergirding. I like 3 and Hard Corps, for their more complex bosses, more than the NES games, but all of them are stellar. I would probably rank 3 over Hard Corps, very slightly (3's extra randomness keeps it from crumpling too much to memorization) and the original's NES port to Super's (it has more layered level design that makes better use of runner enemies and also scales up really interestingly on higher loops - shame that the non-standard gallery shooter stages aren't as fun as the top-down ones).

-Uprising is one of the best in the series, but I probably wouldn't rate it the clean best as I would have in the past. Its levels and bosses are excellent but its separation between walking and running does change its cadence up significantly from the older games, and not really in a good way. Its length and it having the harshest recoveries in the series due to its three levels of weapon power that can be lost in one hit also make it thornier to get back into

-I hadn't played Neo Contra before last month. It's an excellent game, filled with cool fights and great mechanics. I like that it feels a bit more NES Contra-like with its stage design - more focused on running and gunning than boss fights, though its bosses are still strong - but I do wish it were both a bit harder and more propulsive; its levels don't put quite enough pressure on the player.

-4 and Operation C are very solid entries. I think 4 is lacking in polish in some areas - its double-screen setup is more irritating than anything else, encouraging much more memorization than other Contras, especially when the annoying screen gap enemies or bullets can hide inside is taken into account - and it has some awkward setpieces and enemy arrangements (there are a few bits where enemies can outright spawn inside you without warning when you're in the middle of the screen) - but it has a lot of really interesting and exciting segments as well, so I like it a lot despite its unevenness. Operation C is of course a lot more restrained; it's never as good as 4 at its peaks but doesn't have any particular weak points either.

-Rebirth is alright. I hadn't played it until recently either. I think it unfortunately oscillates between awkward and obnoxious setpieces (the llama-riding bit in stage 3, the missile-riding descent in the beginning of stage 4) and functional but never especially exciting run and gun bits, and suffers from visibility issues throughout. Still pretty good but definitely a weaker entry.

-I like the original arcade game enough for its density and charm, but I don't like arcade Super Contra unfortunately. I can look past the unpleasant aim lag in the easy first game but not in Super, where it turns the game into a rigid memorizer with miserable recoveries.

-Contra Force is devoid of interesting action even if it weren't for its comically awful slowdown (some of its music is good though). Neither PS1 game is very good but I kind of like Contra Adventure despite that: its attempts to translate Contra into 3D are charming, it has some decent boss fights, and I appreciate its variety. Unfortunately it's still a fairly dull game throughout. Legacy of War is utterly inept, and probably the worst game I've played from beginning to end. All three of these games were also new to me.

I've at least 1CCed everything here except the PS1 games and Rebirth (the latter I might go for a clear in sometime - it's not especially hard but is a little more demanding to clear than most others due to its lower life count). I will need to play Rogue Corps someday - the demo wasn't awful, but I have no doubt the full game is pretty boring and that its loot focus ends up being a drag.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BurlyHeart »

Excellent write up! Many thanks for your efforts. I shall refer to this many times in the future, I'm sure. Contra is such a fantastic series.

Local store near me has Rogue Corps on sale new for $9....it has to be worth $9...? Right.....?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sima Tuna »

I've played the Contra games casually, and your list looks right to me. I can see why some might place the NES games higher, but I love Hard Corps and Contra III, myself. Operation C on the game boy is impressive for how much they managed to bring over intact from the console games.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

Does Contra Spirit's hard mode remove the possibility of potentially getting unlimited lives near the end? I only played it in normal and was disappointed by this.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by copy-paster »

You mean unlimited continues? Spirit has them in all difficulties, it's that Contra III change them with limited continues and locks the ending to Hard mode to combat rentals :wink:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

Is there some easy life farming spot near the end? To be honest, I don't think it's a problem: you already get like fifteen lives over the course of a playthrough, anyway. I doubt hard mode removes it.
Sima Tuna wrote:I've played the Contra games casually, and your list looks right to me. I can see why some might place the NES games higher, but I love Hard Corps and Contra III, myself. Operation C on the game boy is impressive for how much they managed to bring over intact from the console games.
They're certainly all excellent. I love the NES games as more easygoing action romps; they're simpler to jump back into without any real memorization (and despite Contra III being my overall favorite of the series, I'd take the NES game's over III's normal mode) and perhaps have slightly better pacing. Shattered Soldier is just as good on the whole, really, but despite having several of the best bosses in the series, I actually feel like it has a bit more dead air than even Hard Corps, which is why I rank it a little lower. But they're all essential.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Air Master Burst »

Sir Ilpalazzo wrote:Is there some easy life farming spot near the end? To be honest, I don't think it's a problem: you already get like fifteen lives over the course of a playthrough, anyway. I doubt hard mode removes it.
Yeah, I don't remember anyone complaining about the gratuitous life farming spot in Revenge of Shinobi, and that one's about as fast and easy as it gets. I imagine a lot of people around here play for the 1CC/1LC anyway, so it probably doesn't change much in practical terms.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

Yeah, I meant a life farming spot in the penultimate? stage. And yeah, it does destroy a no-continues approach as all the lives you managed to keep before that spot to face the rest of the game (15 or whatever) become immediately irrelevant. The only way I find this could be a non-issue is if you already find the game easy enough without that trick, but that for sure was not my case.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Vanguard »

Bassa-Bassa wrote:Does Contra Spirit's hard mode remove the possibility of potentially getting unlimited lives near the end? I only played it in normal and was disappointed by this.
imo just don't use stuff like that. Like, it's the developers' fault for putting it in and your clear is still legitimate if you used it, but it it's ruining your fun, just don't do it. It's not something you have to go out of your way to avoid.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Randorama »

I believe that we discussed Rolling Thunder 1 & 2 to death over the years, or even decades.

Said this:

I decided to attempt a 1-LC of Rolling Thunder 2 as a "comfort clear", i.e. a clearing of a game that I can perform without too much focus and constant practice. In my experience, this is something I can achieve once I practice the game enough that I end up memorising a 1-CC/1-LC route I can mentally practice away from the game (or: do you think I *really* look at the street when I go buying groceries?). The first Rolling Thunder does not give me too much trouble, at least the "Old" (180 seconds) version. On the other hand...

Rolling Thunder 2 is a nice upgrade to the first chapter: Namco had money and R&D power to spare already in 1990, so the game features lovely, highly detailed graphics with some scaling and rotating effects, a killer OST (Sasou Ayako's first? Brilliant mix of jazz and other Bond-esque vibes), Leyla as the 1P, and a very fast pace.

This is were I think that the game's virtues end. The game has a very interesting art direction, but some game mechanics seem to work for the worse, in their update from the first chapter. I remember writing about it somewhere, but let's say that I don't want to link here my crappy youthful attempts at writing. So, let's just say that I loved this game as a kid. As an adult, I developed a bittersweet attachment to it. So, I'll propose some aspects of the game system that I find problematic:

1. Stage scrolling can sometimes kill you. In certain spots (stage 2, 4, 7), the stage may suddenly scroll up/down and place your sprite off-screen. This means instant death, though it is avoidable once you know when it happens. Stage 6 includes several moving platforms that must be navigated via jumps. The characters have a problematic "old school" way of jumping. The jump button must be pushed before inputting the direction, or the character will move first and then jump. This entails that in stage 6 players can fall from platforms easily, if they are too close to the platforms' borders. Rolling Thunder had the same problem...after three decades or so, I still find it irksome.

2. Stage design is more homogeneous than in the first chapter. Stages 2, 3 and 5 include a few stage-specific enemies. The other stages all revolve around variations of the "Mickey Mouse" enemies (one hit to kill: their heads look Mickey's) and the "Gibbon-like" enemies (two hits to kill: their heads/helmets vaguely look like gibbons'). Some variants require several hits before they die, but that's the whole extent of variety. The first title had way more interesting, if campy enemies that forced the players to think more about how to approach stage design critically ("How do I pass this part?"). Rolling Thunder 2 focuses too much on killing enemies quickly before they swamp the screen, as far as I am concerned. Speed of execution and memorisation of enemy sequences can solve all stages except the final one.

3. My third gripe is a consequence of my second gripe. The first title allowed players to accumulate bullets. If a player completed stage 1 with 80 bullets, the player will keep them when starting ST 2. The game would award refills (e.g. 40 bullets on ST 2 if the player would complete ST 1 with less than 40 bullets), but survival and parsimonious use of weapons would be rewarded handsomely. Players who can reach the final stage on one life (a feat by itself) would usually have enough bullets to dispose all enemies quickly and mercilessly, as befits final stages.

Rolling Thunder 2 instead resets bullet counts each stage, but also awards generous amounts of bullets Until ST 7 (i.e. the penultimate stage). On this stage, refill rooms are in tricky spots but players who visit all three of them will potentially have 80 extra bullets by the end of the stage. So, the chief tactical aspect of the first game ("use your weapon wisely") seems almost absent, in this second installment.

ST 8, the final stage, presents the opposite issue because does not give the player enough bullets to kill all the enemies. The only way to clear the stage and the game is to learn how to avoid killing enemies and save enough bullets to reach the final boss and avoid being munition-less. This is quite the ordeal, because it involves a lot of memorisation, the use of rather risky manoeuvres (e.g. hit some enemies once, then jump behind them and waiting that they exit the screen), entering rooms and waiting inside them to let enemies move across and out of the screen without attacking.

The choice of enemies that should be spared is not too strict (but players must really avoid killing two 8-hit enemies!). Nevertheless, whichever approach players choose, it must be executed without fault. Even a few misses at the beginning of the stage may entail reaching the final boss without enough ammo, and thus ending up getting killed in a rather frustrating manner. I think that Rolling Thunder had a similarly frustrating final stage, but in Rolling Thunder 2 the frustration seems also to come from the fact that, again, only this stage offers a very sudden, suffocating tactical battle. Oh, and the final boss is an imbecile with useless attacks, but it takes tons of bullets before it dies: hardly an impressive design choice, on my agenda.

4. I have some other minor gripes:

A. Bullets may be hard to detect against some backgrounds (yellow outer shell, red inner shell, and they flicker);
B. Hit detection is at times erratic, and enemies' movements are at times choppy;
C. Rank seems rather poorly implemented. Reaching ST 8 on one life means that all enemies will move very fast and will be extremely aggressive. One death seems to noticeably reduce the rank (down by
40% or so?). I am really bitching about the feature because I want a 1-LC, of course; :wink:

...So, I may content myself with a "rote 1-CC", and let the 1-LC be a possible outcome that may make me happy, if I ever reach it (and that would be another 30-years grudge off my head, to be frank). I feel that my current self lacks the love that my younger selves had for this title. The whole "nap until ST 8 and then avoid breathing and blinking for 4 minutes and 20 seconds" experience makes me feel like those younger bastards should have known better about games, even if back in those days of arcade naivety people could easily overlook unbalanced stage design.

I may edit this rant a bit: let's say that if anyone finds it amusing, I achieved a consolation goal :wink:

Next: will the Rando 1-CC the Pac-Man title in Namco Collection Vol. 2? (aka: "grudges may grow old, but remain forever fresh"). Stay tuned!

EDIT: 1-LC'ed the game while tweaking my approach to the first section of ST 8. In a nutshell: I wasn't entering as many doors as I could, to let enemies move outside the screen. I tried the new & improved route a few times, and landed 3 LC's in a row, the last one with a staggering 12 bullets to spare. This might become a "comfort 1-LC", if I practice some more.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

I never played the arcade version of RT2. How well do you think the MegaDrive version compares? Do you think it improves some of the failings of the arcade version?

It's the version I have - but unfortunately I never spent too much time with it myself. I played it a bit and didn't really manage to gel too well with it. But the game is so stylish, it's something I really want to get into.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Herr Schatten »

Sumez wrote:It's the version I have - but unfortunately I never spent too much time with it myself. I played it a bit and didn't really manage to gel too well with it. But the game is so stylish, it's something I really want to get into.
Same here. I really really want to like it, and in theory, I should like it, but everytime I decide to sit down with it, I can’t help thinking "Man, this plays like a clunky poor man’s Shinobi".
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Blinge »

Image

Posting my 1LC here because maybe action aficionados will see the game as worth their attention..
.. also, i think i'm the only person to upload a no miss of 1986+hard mode. I've scrolled and searched on youtube quite a bit, couldn't find anything.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by copy-paster »

Looks like Hard isn't much different to Normal except for few added enemies, haven't beat stage 3 yet but would revisit one day. Control scheme feels like Rondo with no midair jump control.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Blinge »

On classic mode, yes. with a little bit of midair.

1986 mode controls like Simon in CV1.

and yeah Hard didn't feel all that different to normal, you're right.
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