Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
User avatar
BIL
Posts: 19069
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Blimey, Super Contra's VHARD loop is just as punishing as I'd recalled. Having 1CCd Guevara in the interim, I'd put it in that one's ballpark. Super is about as flawed as SNK's de facto Ikari III, to be sure, both demanding charity even as they dole out the punishment... but when those infernal chokepoints break, they break hard. Image

The stronger the shackle, the greater the recoil when it is finally broken. - Super FromSoft Bro Miyazaki

This said - I'm always wary of being roped into pure sadomasochism, when there's super-smooth yet balls-hard stuff like Rygar and S.A.R. I could be playing. I make a firm distinction for calculatedly high-yield ballbreakers, though. There's crummy cheapshot memorisers, like Haunted Castle - and then there are REVENGEONEERINGS, Image where you've given a fuckoff massive hammer, then tasked with artfully bashing cold pig-iron into white-hot killathons. Not the controlled chaos of Dai/Saigo, nor the performative assault course of Alien Soldier, or even the simple catharsis of Nazca; more violent puzzle/action games with biblically body-stacking payoffs. Great for the occasional deep dive project.

Anyhoo, I'd recalled something in stage 4 saving my ass, and consulting a Japanese 2-ALL to see they'd done the same. I didn't write it down! Crumbs! I think I rediscovered it yesterday.

Loop 2 / VHARD Stage 4 Hell Ramp
Ex2
Beaned! Possible Enemy HP down? (starring MUTEKI no ZANAC :cool:)

Notes on above / ARIEN no GYAKKUSHU Image
Spoiler
Seems panning the camera up with a high jump [up+jump] affects the runners' spawn position, preventing an otherwise near-impossible pileup. I don't know why this works, but it seems to. It's deadly to execute the high jump at the top of the ramp. Much safer to yeet yourself off the platform, ready to land and commence Bundle extermination.

I also have a sneaking suspicion that regular Machinegun + autofire is superior to the SMG, owing to rank reduction. It's terribly easy to get beaned by an unwanted new weapon, in the aftermath of the Hell Ramp - but since the last of the three drops is the MG, you can recover and limp on. Or so I thought! Once I was done experimenting, I went ahead with a beaned run, and demolished not only Winged Xeno, but also Loop 2 Stage 5, completely blind. That is completely blind - I'd never bothered going past 2-4 in my last sessions. Hmm. More research needed!
Last edited by BIL on Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Volteccer_Jack
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:55 pm

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Volteccer_Jack »

SriK wrote:Finally. Only took seven years lol.
Worth the wait. 8)

Steel Assault looks, sounds, and plays beautifully. The nostalgia is evoked so thoroughly that I feel like I'm playing through somebody's fond memory of a Genesis-era action game, with the foibles and flaws selectively forgotten and the style exaggerated up to 11. Stages are fast and fun with that awesome driving soundtrack to urge you on, long enough to explore their ideas but never outstaying their welcome. Bosses are simple and straightforward yet still have enough complexity to be really engaging. Taro's moveset is super simple at a glance but provides a plethora of ways to approach situations. It's all just good.

The zipline is fairly wonky and takes a bit of getting used to, but is hella fun. My main complaint would just be the fact that it doesn't get explored thoroughly enough in the level design, I think the game is ripe to have one more stage added. I felt like I was just waking up to the zipline's potential in the last two stages. Gonna play with that quite a bit on subsequent runs.

And the intro cinematic hits sooo goddamned hard, wtf dude.

In less fortunate news, the Actraiser pedigree has been soiled by a trash remake.
Jeneki wrote:Act Raiser remake ... wow those melee attack animations look janky as hell. At first I thought the trailer was a rough early build, until I read it's released today.

Hopefully someone will take a risk on this, and report back on the playability side. :wink:
I hate it. Where Steel Assault feels like someone tried to painstakingly recreate a dream they once had about the perfect video game, Actraiser Renaissance feels like some hipster douchebag who's never played a game made before 2010 was put in front of the original Actraiser and after less than 5 minutes decided that he knew better.

The sim portion of the game has been greatly expanded with the addition of tower defense segments. They've also added a ton of new story elements and it really feels like 99% of the budget and development time went towards this sim stuff, and to be perfectly honest, it feels like the action stages are only begrudgingly included. Even the new story is at odds with the action stages; it heavily revolves around the agency and self-reliance of the humans as well as the involvement of a group of mythical superpowered human heroes, and the idea of having god come down and solve the problem for them completely undermines all the themes they're trying to push with their (very dialogue-heavy) story. It's like a self-parody; every region has a whole story arc about the regional hero overcoming their personal demons and finally deciding that to protect the people they need to go defeat the bad guy, and then every single time at the exact moment they make that decision, God appears and says "Nah bro just stay home and watch Night Court, somebody else will do it for you."

The sim stuff feels significantly slower than in the original, and it is CONSTANTLY interrupted by dialogue scenes. The tower defense segments also take forever while you literally do nothing but sit and watch. I would kill for a fast-forward button in this game. I tried to tell myself that I was just spoiled from playing Actraiser 1 on emulators, but when I booted up Actraiser 1 today, I found myself forgetting that I had a fast-forward button, because it's rarely ever necessary in the SNES game. In the remake these sections drag so much that it feels awful that the devs didn't include it as a feature.

Like I mentioned, the action stages feel like they are only in the game by executive mandate against the wishes of the dev team. They are ugly as sin. Level design is lifeless and static, imitating basic layouts from the original but with no understanding about what was fun about those layouts or how to leverage it. Enemies are the same way, clumsily aping the basic concept of each enemy but with no understanding of why that concept presents an interesting challenge. Like in the original Actraiser, your jump height is not adjustable, you get the same jump height whether you hold the button or not. But in the original the game was designed around that height. In the remake it's like they didn't even consider jump height. You constantly jump way too high and as a result you feel really floaty, not because you're actually floaty but just because you have to spend an enormous amount of time waiting to land from jumps. The 3 new attacks they added don't do anything interesting except for the fact that they all grant copious amounts of invulnerability and are thus OPAF. I'm convinced that they were only added to the game for the sake of adding something to the game, without giving any thought to making them interesting or balanced. Same goes for the backdash. It's useless and silly. Hipster douchebag played Aria of Sorrow for 5 minutes one time and now he puts a backdash button in every game he works on just because. And I said it already but I cannot stress enough how ugly, lifeless, and boring all the action stages are. I don't consider the original to be a masterpiece or anything, but it feels like one after playing this remake.

There's also a new mechanic in the action stages that causes you to do double damage. But it's not available in the first stage. What this means is that the first boss has a comically inflated health bar for no apparent reason. I initially turned the difficulty down from hard to normal just because the first boss had waaaaaaaaay too much health on hard and I didn't want tedious damage sponge bosses. But then I got to the second action stage and the game was like "here, now you do double damage at no cost with no downside" and I had to turn the difficulty back up to hard to stop myself from completely obliterating bosses. This whole game is a mess, absolute amateur hour stuff.

I do think there's a neat idea for a game where you play as the six heroes, but that game is not the one we got, and even if it was it would require a great deal of skill to pull off, something these devs clearly don't have.
"Don't worry about quality. I've got quantity!"
User avatar
Rastan78
Posts: 1969
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:08 am

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Rastan78 »

Damn that's a shame. I can't think of anything in gaming more boring than dialogue heavy Japanese games that are text based with static anime doll type designs above the text boxes. Actraiser just didn't need tons of new dialogue.

And tower defense!? Like there aren't enough of those already. Agreed that it does make sense they could have been targeting mobile to start out.

Hearing about this hack job had the odd side effect of getting me extra hyped for the new Pocky and Rocky Reshrined which will no doubt be expertly rebalanced and touched up. Given how good Wild Guns and Ninja Warriors turned out that's a day one purchase all the way.
User avatar
Stevens
Posts: 3804
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 11:44 pm
Location: Brooklyn NY

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

Damn this place. I have to buy Steel Assault.
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
Bassa-Bassa
Posts: 1177
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:18 pm

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

Me too!

So there're two difficulty levels, "normal" and "expert"?
User avatar
Volteccer_Jack
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:55 pm

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Volteccer_Jack »

Rastan78 wrote:And tower defense!? Like there aren't enough of those already. Agreed that it does make sense they could have been targeting mobile to start out.
There is one thing about the tower defense segments that is potentially really cool, but I think was implemented quite poorly. The ground-based enemies in tower defense use the roads you've built to travel, which means that the way you build each region has a major effect on how the tower defense segments play out. If you haven't carefully planned your roads well ahead of time, you end up with lame duck towers that can't defend well. It's a neat concept, but there's two major problems. The first is that, while you can easily destroy buildings, it's completely impossible to undo or alter roads after they're created.

The other bigger problem, as those familiar with Actraiser 1 are probably aware, is that you don't have direct control over the way roads are built. The game never bothers to explain a single goddamned thing about roads, and even though they are vastly more important in the remake, they still don't bother. Even when you know how roads are determined, manipulating your development to get the layout you want is unintuitive and requires advance planning.
Bassa-Bassa wrote:Me too!

So there're two difficulty levels, "normal" and "expert"?
Steel Assault has Very Easy, Easy, Normal, Expert, and Arcade.

As far as I can tell, Expert and Arcade are the same, except that Arcade has no saving or checkpoints. You have to play Arcade in one sitting and if you ever die you get sent back to the very beginning of the game. My best Arcade runs so far have made it about halfway thru. I haven't even touched the two easy modes so I can't speak to them.
"Don't worry about quality. I've got quantity!"
User avatar
Stevens
Posts: 3804
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 11:44 pm
Location: Brooklyn NY

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

And in news that surprises no one - another game recommended by the R2RKMF crew kicks ass.

I wonder if Kitten is playing this? I seem to remember she was hyped about it.

Haven't beaten the 1st boss yet, but once I got comfortable with the zipline I got to her in like two or three minutes.
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
Bassa-Bassa
Posts: 1177
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:18 pm

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

Steel Assault has Very Easy, Easy, Normal, Expert, and Arcade.

As far as I can tell, Expert and Arcade are the same, except that Arcade has no saving or checkpoints. You have to play Arcade in one sitting and if you ever die you get sent back to the very beginning of the game. My best Arcade runs so far have made it about halfway thru. I haven't even touched the two easy modes so I can't speak to them.
Thanks. It's strange. Every time you use a checkpoint in Expert you're using a credit, then? You don't get extra lives at all?
User avatar
Volteccer_Jack
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:55 pm

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Volteccer_Jack »

No lives, any death sends you directly to Game Over screen. You have a health bar, but only the one (slow attrition is how Arcade mode kills me).
"Don't worry about quality. I've got quantity!"
User avatar
pegboy
Posts: 906
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:57 am
Location: Washington

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by pegboy »

BIL wrote:Blimey, Super Contra's VHARD loop is just as punishing as I'd recalled. Having 1CCd Guevara in the interim, I'd put it in that one's ballpark. Super is about as flawed as SNK's de facto Ikari III, to be sure, both demanding charity even as they dole out the punishment... but when those infernal chokepoints break, they break hard. Image

The stronger the shackle, the greater the recoil when it is finally broken. - Super FromSoft Bro Miyazaki

This said - I'm always wary of being roped into pure sadomasochism, when there's super-smooth yet balls-hard stuff like Rygar and S.A.R. I could be playing. I make a firm distinction for calculatedly high-yield ballbreakers, though. There's crummy cheapshot memorisers, like Haunted Castle - and then there are REVENGEONEERINGS, Image where you've given a fuckoff massive hammer, then tasked with artfully bashing cold pig-iron into white-hot killathons. Not the controlled chaos of Dai/Saigo, nor the performative assault course of Alien Soldier, or even the simple catharsis of Nazca; more violent puzzle/action games with biblically body-stacking payoffs. Great for the occasional deep dive project.

Anyhoo, I'd recalled something in stage 4 saving my ass, and consulting a Japanese 2-ALL to see they'd done the same. I didn't write it down! Crumbs! I think I rediscovered it yesterday.

Loop 2 / VHARD Stage 4 Hell Ramp
Ex2
Beaned! Possible Enemy HP down? (starring MUTEKI no ZANAC :cool:)

Notes on above / ARIEN no GYAKKUSHU Image
Spoiler
Seems panning the camera up with a high jump [up+jump] affects the runners' spawn position, preventing an otherwise near-impossible pileup. I don't know why this works, but it seems to. It's deadly to execute the high jump at the top of the ramp. Much safer to yeet yourself off the platform, ready to land and commence Bundle extermination.

I also have a sneaking suspicion that regular Machinegun + autofire is superior to the SMG, owing to rank reduction. It's terribly easy to get beaned by an unwanted new weapon, in the aftermath of the Hell Ramp - but since the last of the three drops is the MG, you can recover and limp on. Or so I thought! Once I was done experimenting, I went ahead with a beaned run, and demolished not only Winged Xeno, but also Loop 2 Stage 5, completely blind. That is completely blind - I'd never bothered going past 2-4 in my last sessions. Hmm. More research needed!
Excellent analysis BIL. I just cleared it on hardest (1 loop) and have quite a bit to say.

First of all, this is an infuriating game, and although it only takes like 10 minutes to clear it, pretty much all of it is extremely difficult and the kills come cheaply and often. It always seems like I am just barely in control of the game and even the slightest mistake will result in a death, which happened often to me. There is a fair amount of RNG BS in this game too, so certain parts can be a joke or a nightmare, it all just depends on what you get thrown at you.

I decided to not use autofire because I'm an idiot and also stubborn. I also ended up using a controller instead of the cabinet controls because I just can't hit the diagonals fast enough or precise enough with a stick and this awkward aiming system the game uses. It wasn't so bad for the first Contra but this game requires a much tighter control.

Stage 1:
You start of grabbing the machine gun, and although it has autofire, it's only like 5Hz (I think, just guessing). Thankfully, you can kind of simulate the level 2 machine gun by tapping very fast, which actually did help me out a lot here since the level 1 machine gun kind of sucks. In fact all the weapons suck in the game except the level 2 machine gun. You want to kill that tank as quickly as possible, as he can drop some undodgeable bullshit if you are unlucky.

I think in a 2-all run you would have the level 2 gun carried over from the first loop so it's probably not as bad for the first part of the stage but the end of the stage is still a nightmare either way. The section after the helicopter is just a mess, and you absolutely need to kill the first sniper on the ledge immediately to stand much of a chance in the last room.

Actually the majority of the game is like this, there are very high priority kills that need to happen or you die and it's all over. This is pretty much a 1 life game too. You can die on the final boss but anyway else, and I do mean anywhere and it's a game over. Actually, if you are using autofire you can recover in several spots that have machine gun drops, but without it you are fucking toast.

Stage 2:
Not too bad actually except for the bridge segment. Since I need to conserve both bombs for the final stage I had no choice but to try and run through that part as fast as possible. I did devise a strategy for it but I do not think it is 100% safe, I think the turrets can fire at slightly earlier or later which can make the pattern undodegable. Not really sure. You can also try and ping down the turrets but it takes forever. I think if you take too long, more and more soldiers starts showing up and will overwhelm you. In a 2-ALL attempt I'd probably bomb here. Nothing else in the stage is really that bad IMO.

Stage 3:
Probably the "easiest" stage? The first section is by far the hardest of the level and requires you knowing exactly where all the snipers are and taking them out as soon as they scroll on to the screen. If you don't it's pretty much over. The water section is very easy and the log part can get you killed if you aren't careful about the jumping soldier. This section also has another machine gun, so if you are playing with autofire and have died earlier, you can recover here.

The final section has some small facehuggers attack you, some skull guys that come up from the ground, and a few eggs that spit the evil red homing bullshit at you. CYou want to barely scroll them on the screen and try to kill them before they can attack. The red stuff will circle around you 4 or 5 times before it goes away. If there are 4 red bullets, be afraid. 2 or 3 and you will probably be fine. In my run, I killed them both before they did anything (RNG for when they fire, sometimes they do nothing).

The boss is another one of those silly RNG hazards. When you shoot him, he fires off all these alien guys that crawl along the ground. Sometimes they all go in one direction and are harmless, other times they end up all over the place and you are in trouble. You can also try and ping this guy down so he only drops a few at time. Once the mid part is destroyed it's more red homing bullshit. Try to kill him before it gets out of hand, simple stand in the very middle and unload upward.

Stage 4:
This stage is really the sticking point of the game for most people. I actually don't think it's that bad and not really any worse than the other stages to be honest, all of them have stupid cheap kills like this. The one section with the flying aliens and xenomorph runners can be handled a number of ways, see BILs post. Still need to be careful to kill all the shit at the bottom and not grab any of the weapons. Actually, there is another machine gun drop here too so if you die and have autofire, you can recover here as well. I think it's the 3rd blimp that flies through.

The midboss coming up is just all about speed killing, you need to take him out before he drops too many of the red homing things. There's another alien rush after this but it's not as bad as earlier because there are no flying guys.

The final stretch has a few eggs that are easy to kill leading up to the flying xenomorph boss. Now this guy CAN be a joke. Just sit under him and blast away if you have 20 or 30hz autofire he will die before he even does anything. If not, his first attack will likely be to swoop and and try to bite you, simply duck to avoid it and then stand up and continue blasting him. If you are very unlucky, instead of swooping down, he will fire the red homing and you will die. Sometimes he will even fire 2 volleys of red homing and that is totally undodgeable regardless of where you are on the screen. I tried to devise a 100% safe strategy on this guy and I came to the conclusion that the only 100% safe strategy was autofire. In my run he just did the standard bite attack, so now issue there.

Stage 5:
The final level. The first threats are the large mouths that appear randomly. This is one of those areas that is complete bullshit as they can literally spawn underneath you and it's a wrap. Luckily, this seems to be fairly rare, so most of the time they aren't a problem.

After that you will encounter these heads that swarm and spin around you. At first there is just one of them, and he's easily to kill A bit later they come in a massive number and my advice is to just bomb this. You can take them out without a bomb but it's very dangerous and unless you have 30hz autofire I wouldn't recommend it. Even then it's probably still best to bomb.

The next section is a long hallway with yellow guys that swarm from little opening on both sides. I don't really know a way to dodge them reliably and it seems like the direction they go is random. So you pretty much need to plan on bombing this hallway at some point. Try to get as far down as you possibly can before you bomb. Remember there is a delay to the bomb, so it's best to let it go a bit early if you think you will be swarmed. My only other advise is just try to get through as quickly as possible. In a 2-all attempt you might consider saving 2 bombs for this section and that should let you get through with absolutely no trouble.

After the hallway you will reach the final boss, which start as a wall with bunch of heads shooting bullets everywhere and yellow guys running around. I think there is also another machine gun drop here so if you somehow limp into this section and are playing with autofire you still have a chance. There are also more of those yellow guys from earlier running around everywhere. You just need to try and dodge this crap and ping him down, it doesn't seem to have much health. In a 2-all attempt, if you still have a bomb left I'd use it here to clear all the yellow guys.

Finally the big head shows up with the tentacles. There is a quick kill strategy for this guy which requires you to line up such that you only hit one of his eyes and then hit the red thing in the middle of his head. If you line everything up properly he will go down before really doing much. If not, he will bring a barrier up around the red thing and start spitting a bunch of tiny grim reaper aliens out that ram into you.

If you don't get the quick kill, you need to go back to the very bottom of the screen and stay in the very middle shooting upward, such that you are hitting the little spinning barriers and making sure the tentacles aren't blocking his mouth. This will allow you to take out his barriers and at the same time kill the grim reapers. Once the barrier is down, pick your spots between when the arms are back and the reapers are dead to fire onto the red area. This is a risky strategy since sometimes the reapers will still get through your fire and come after you, but it's really all you've got at this point.

If you do die, your only shot is to rush the red thing and fire at it point black so that it bypasses the barriers. If you have enough lives (or a very high autogfire rate), you can take the boss down very quickly by just rushing this spot.

Sorry for the ridiculously long post but I just wanted to get this out while it's still fresh in my mind. Good luck soldiers.
User avatar
BIL
Posts: 19069
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Great posting Jack and PEG, marked for index. :cool:
pegboy wrote:Excellent analysis BIL. I just cleared it on hardest (1 loop) and have quite a bit to say.

First of all, this is an infuriating game, and although it only takes like 10 minutes to clear it, pretty much all of it is extremely difficult and the kills come cheaply and often. It always seems like I am just barely in control of the game and even the slightest mistake will result in a death, which happened often to me. There is a fair amount of RNG BS in this game too, so certain parts can be a joke or a nightmare, it all just depends on what you get thrown at you.
Nightmare is precisely the word I kept close - it's definitely reminding me of why it's the only main-line Contra I've not got a nomiss of. :lol: Figures it took a Gradius III conqueror like yourself to lure me back. Image I'm gonna plug away at the JP version a bit - it's a longtime nemesis of mine, and this is a bucket list year.

I decided to go without autofire, too - I don't know what frequency M2's version uses (it's merely "On/Off"), but it really only gives Super Machinegun a split-second speedkill advantage. So it's just the first loop's first stage where I'm tapping, and TBH the first loop is a cinch at this point. I may hop over to US depending on how annoying it gets - the JP loop and US V.Hard are indeed 100% identical.

EDIT: HOOOOOOLY FUCK :shock: Dude I had no idea Shells carried over between stages, until reading your notes. :shock: This changes a lot, cos I don't need the first loop's. :o

I guess JP ver may be a bit easier in this regard. :lol:

Out of curiosity, I cleared JP VHard, to see if it'd still loop. It does; finishing that next loop will get you The End, as usual.

EDIT2: The st1 tank midboss seems to have a couple of consistent patterns, in my experience. Regardless of which he uses, I hit the dirt and start firing on entry. From there...

#1: Fires the cannon immediately. If this happens, I instantly superjump from prone - works every time.
#2: Moves in close firing his MG. Normal jump over the bullets - the cannon will miss you (a superjump will get caught)

You probably know you can also kill the gunner, who has much less HP than the tank itself (I love Super's cutting-edge fixation on cinematic "realism" - see also Bill and Lance forcing themselves back to their feet, after impacts that'd surely kill lesser soldiers!). This'll revive the button-mashing spirit of Contra's killer Zambonis. :lol: Jumpshotting him feels too exposed for my liking, though.
Last edited by BIL on Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Stevens
Posts: 3804
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 11:44 pm
Location: Brooklyn NY

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

Got to stage two on a quick credit last night. AGGRESSION got me through, zipped up and wailed away.

Gonna do this one old school me thinks.
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
User avatar
Sanguis
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:33 am

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sanguis »

Hello everyone,

I am a longtime follower of this thread. I've enjoyed many of your beautiful posts, and played many (if not all ?) of the wonderful games discussed here.

While I can be considered as cheap, and even as someone who doesn't want to spend money on video games, i just bought Steel Assault. I don't have much time in my hands (excessive workload), but I look forward to playing the game.
User avatar
pegboy
Posts: 906
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:57 am
Location: Washington

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by pegboy »

Yes, you can store bombs. It was a shock to me as well but I watched some Japanese replay out there somewhere where he was bombing over and over again. At first I thought it was some sort of cheat but no, you can store bombs.

Thanks for the tank strategies, is that for very hard or normal? Maybe it works in both.

One final thing, when playing in MAME there is absolutely no slowdown on the final boss whereas when I got to him on the PCB I was surprised by the amount of slowdown when he has the spinning barriers up, it seems to go away with the more of them you kill. Just an odd thing I noticed that doesn't seem to be present in MAME, or at least in shmupMAME that I was practicing with.
BIL wrote:Great posting Jack and PEG, marked for index. :cool:
pegboy wrote:Excellent analysis BIL. I just cleared it on hardest (1 loop) and have quite a bit to say.

First of all, this is an infuriating game, and although it only takes like 10 minutes to clear it, pretty much all of it is extremely difficult and the kills come cheaply and often. It always seems like I am just barely in control of the game and even the slightest mistake will result in a death, which happened often to me. There is a fair amount of RNG BS in this game too, so certain parts can be a joke or a nightmare, it all just depends on what you get thrown at you.
Nightmare is precisely the word I kept close - it's definitely reminding me of why it's the only main-line Contra I've not got a nomiss of. :lol: Figures it took a Gradius III conqueror like yourself to lure me back. Image I'm gonna plug away at the JP version a bit - it's a longtime nemesis of mine, and this is a bucket list year.

I decided to go without autofire, too - I don't know what frequency M2's version uses (it's merely "On/Off"), but it really only gives Super Machinegun a split-second speedkill advantage. So it's just the first loop's first stage where I'm tapping, and TBH the first loop is a cinch at this point. I may hop over to US depending on how annoying it gets - the JP loop and US V.Hard are indeed 100% identical.

EDIT: HOOOOOOLY FUCK :shock: Dude I had no idea Shells carried over between stages, until reading your notes. :shock: This changes a lot, cos I don't need the first loop's. :o

I guess JP ver may be a bit easier in this regard. :lol:

Out of curiosity, I cleared JP VHard, to see if it'd still loop. It does; finishing that next loop will get you The End, as usual.

EDIT2: The st1 tank midboss seems to have a couple of consistent patterns, in my experience. Regardless of which he uses, I hit the dirt and start firing on entry. From there...

#1: Fires the cannon immediately. If this happens, I instantly superjump from prone - works every time.
#2: Moves in close firing his MG. Normal jump over the bullets - the cannon will miss you (a superjump will get caught)

You probably know you can also kill the gunner, who has much less HP than the tank itself (I love Super's cutting-edge fixation on cinematic "realism" - see also Bill and Lance forcing themselves back to their feet, after impacts that'd surely kill lesser soldiers!). This'll revive the button-mashing spirit of Contra's killer Zambonis. :lol: Jumpshotting him feels too exposed for my liking, though.
User avatar
BIL
Posts: 19069
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Welcome aboard, Sanguis!
pegboy wrote:Thanks for the tank strategies, is that for very hard or normal? Maybe it works in both.
Very Hard, US ver (so I'm using the base Machinegun, rather than the SMG I bring into the loop). He dies faster on Normal, but I think it'll work there too. :smile:
One final thing, when playing in MAME there is absolutely no slowdown on the final boss whereas when I got to him on the PCB I was surprised by the amount of slowdown when he has the spinning barriers up, it seems to go away with the more of them you kill. Just an odd thing I noticed that doesn't seem to be present in MAME, or at least in shmupMAME that I was practicing with.
Excellent intel, thanks - I was going to ask you about PCB slowdown after my credits today. Besides the last boss once he's fully equipped, I also get a bit on Stage 2's bridge (VHard), if I let enough bullets onscreen. Haven't seen any otherwise.

I've also noticed a glitch at the last boss (Anniversary Collection v1.1.0/PS4). Basically, if you stand directly underneath his right arm, it won't be able to reach you - so you can promptly demolish it with SMG. However, every time I did this, a Reaper would spawn at the bottom-center of the screen, right where I'd be standing to shoot them - instantly telefragging me. I was toying with a Shin Contra "S-Rank" finish, destroying his arms, ears and eyes before the kill, but when I saw this I was like yeahhh nah - gonna settle for a quick assassination via Moe Greene Special, then work on flashier stuff later, methinks. :lol:
User avatar
pegboy
Posts: 906
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:57 am
Location: Washington

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by pegboy »

I can confirm the stage 2 slowdown, it goes to a crawl on the pcb, my route on the bridge actually exploits this. I think that even happens in mame too. As far as that glitch goes I'd have to see a video of it in order to try and reproduce. Any idea if it happens in mame?
User avatar
BIL
Posts: 19069
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Interesting, sounds like M2 did well here (I was sceptical at first - the intro is missing the voiceover :evil: BGM/SFX are as gloriously grainy/crunchy as ever though).

No idea about MAME, sorry - will have to give it a shot when I'm back to my PC on the weekend. I'll try recording a PS4 example in a sec. :smile:

EDIT: Ah, here we go. Positioning is a bit pickier than I'd recalled from this morning's practice. You need to be hitting him on the left side of his big smiley teefs (your left). You can tell you're lined up properly if you're hearing the "target damaged" SFX. Speedkilling him thus will usually cause the telefrag.

Ex1
Ex2
Ex3 (a guesswork-based counterattack)

And finally, an example where it didn't happen. Seems pretty specific. I'm still kinda bummed out, because basically the only threat in that fight is Gyaba puttin' up his mitts, which lets Reapers escape and cause trouble. Less arms = clear shot = no Reapers, no problem. :cool: Still, early days.

(what a fuckin rad boss design, especially the enraged hissing. even the drastically scaled-down Famicom one still has presence - and while it's nowhere as formidable-looking, the way there's just the one 'orrible worm that now glides in and out of the arm sockets is super-bodyhorrific)
User avatar
pegboy
Posts: 906
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:57 am
Location: Washington

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by pegboy »

I have seen that before when messing around in mame, still not sure if it happens on the PCB, haven't had a chance to try it yet. Do you know if it happens on easy or normal? Getting there on very hard with autofire and feeding credits would probably not be too hard but I'd like an easier way to test it if possible.
User avatar
BIL
Posts: 19069
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

That was on US VHard, but I'm starting out from JP Normal, so when I'm there today I'll give it a go. :smile:

At this point, attempting full runs, I think the US VHard is harder on technique, the JP 2-ALL on endurance. I've gotten very used to having at least three bombs for JP's final stage - possibly four, depending on how the first loop's "Death Valley" goes (the trios of green spineys that sweep in from the sides). That part is equivalent to the first game's Discus throwers - it's the one point where I don't feel fully in control.

Other than emergency bombing there, I use one bomb at the Gyruss array just beforehand. I can actually shoot my way through them, if I risk my neck (actually more risk of getting sniped by a Bug). I notice there's actually three Gyruss spawns. First, one. Then, a few more further up. Finally, the last of the bunch. The latter two spawn points are really close together, so I'd initially thought they were a package deal.

Otherwise, nothing beyond the final barricade needs a bomb. It's handy having one for Facewall - not for the monstrosity itself, but the backstabber Bugs who'll follow you in, and can complicate matters. As you know, Gyaba can be Moe Greened (Moe Gyabad?) with proper footing.

It's JP I've had a years-long grudge match with, and like you I'm a stubborn bastard :mrgreen: So I'm gonna stick with its resource-richer endurance test for now. In the future, it's the US VHard I'll return to. I love it when a manual scroller packs this much utter enmity into such a compact-yet-malleable package; it really is like Guevara, a brute ingot to forge into a sword of coinop vengeance as you will.

(good fucking thing they left the SMG in, though - god bless those loketest dudes yelling their approval at the carnage :lol:)
User avatar
Stevens
Posts: 3804
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 11:44 pm
Location: Brooklyn NY

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

Steel Assault

Playing on normal, but playing it like an arcade game. Dying ends my legit attempt. Ill use continues and learn the next bit, delete the file and start over.

Best run is to stage three, vert shaft.

Love stage two's arranged boss ost.

Hello Sanguis! SA is a great game for someone with limited time.

Already my favorite r2rkmf since TNWOA. A run of that is around double the time though.
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
User avatar
BIL
Posts: 19069
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Steel Assault st2 boss BGM gives me a Tecno Boner Image
User avatar
Sumez
Posts: 8050
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:11 am
Location: Denmarku
Contact:

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Barely had the time to play Steel Assault yet, have been busy with house stuff the past two days :oops:

I did play it for a bit though, and made it to stage 3 on Expert mode. Played a bit of that on the train today and it's definitely the weakest part of the game so far. The hydra boss is annoying, the autoscroller I don't get at all, and the straight run'n'gun part like to spawn enemies right in your face.
I really loved the first two stages though, and I'm excited to make progress as soon as I find the time for it again.

Gotta try out Normal mode once I'm done to see how different they are.
User avatar
pegboy
Posts: 906
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:57 am
Location: Washington

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by pegboy »

Here's my Super Contra run
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uKfUUomRlY

I do kind of agree that 1 loop on very hard (the manual calls it "very difficult") is "harder" than a 2-all on normal simply because you have fewer resources in the higher difficultly. It pretty much forces you to not bomb on stage 2 and save them both for the final stage. BUT it's also much quicker to grind out runs so in the end I might still say the 2-all would take longer to get, which would in fact make it harder? Kind of hard to say.

I also noticed the second "head swarm" came in 2 waves in the final stage but it's still too risky not to just bomb that whole mess. If you have a 20-30 hz autofire I could see taking them out though.

Curious how you deal with the bridge in stage 2 on loop 2? Do you bomb it or just run through? I never did really figure out a 100% fool proof way of doing it.

If I had the Japanese PCB I'd try for the 2-ALL but alas I don't, and I'd have to desolder things to convert mine which is not gonna happen. Yes I could just play it in MAME or something but argh, I've got too many PCBs sitting around not getting used. And Contra Evolution just arrived a few days ago...
User avatar
drauch
Posts: 5638
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:14 am

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by drauch »

If you need that Tiger Contra game hit me up and we can make it happen ;)
BIL wrote: "Small sack, LOTS OF CUM" - Nikola Tesla
User avatar
BIL
Posts: 19069
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

I've still got mine somewhere, even took the battery out before storing :mrgreen: So much more charming than those crummy Tiger ones. (speaking of, I ALSO gots SIMONS QUEST and MORTAL KHOMBAT :shock:)

Splendidly done PEG Image This is a helluva rough game to take on at such short notice! Impressive to see you knock it down just like the rest.

I used much of Thursday's credits to nail down my no-bomb 2-2; while it's a little slow, owing to the viciously fast/rangey shots, I'm pretty confident in my route. Here's tonight's replay. (might be processing for a bit)

For the bridge's first half, the snipers are priority targets; the runners can be dealt with ad-hoc, but as long as snipers are alive, they'll make life hell with their speed and reach. Once I'm past them and at the turrets, I turn the laggy aiming to my advantage. As shown, I can just about reach that turret with quarter-circle turns. It's safer than it looks; just don't go beyond the red border, and he won't be able to touch you. After he dies, I bait his opposite number, then rush past, whacking the penultimate sniper nest before turning to clear my six. I think you can just about hustle past without the bait, but I'm not going for absolute speed just yet.

This was a lone attempt before bed, which made it to the third boss... and might well have gone all the way, but I decided to test my theory that his second red pincer will always miss a standing player. Turns out, it actually can hit you. :evil: :lol: Was gutted, but I know that as soon as I reach Stage 2-5 with my 3+ bombs, I'm home free. Saturday is my designated recording day, feelin' pretty good. :cool:

I actually used this evening to iron out 2-3... of all the ways RNG can bite your ass in this game, I'd gotten consistent at just about everything but that goddamn pair of eggs, right before the boss. 90% of the time, the first will die before attacking, with the latter dying instantly after firing - a cinch to evade its lingering Red Homing Bullshit. However, just often enough, either the first would get a shot off, or the second would attack early... either way, I'd be left dealing with RHB while one or both was still alive. I really hated the thought of a total RNG lottery, especially so late in the run (again, 2-4 is really the final stage, assuming you're packing minimum three shells).

Happily, I eventually nailed down good contingencies for both situations. The first egg attacking is so rare, I don't really worry about it (a bit like Winged Xeno's absolute worst-case Double RHB... which I think I can see a way around, but again, it's so uncommon that for now, I'm just gonna cut and run, ala my gamble on Metal Slug 5's Sand Sub). Basically, the key is to return fire while dodging the RHB. My mistake was focusing on dodging, which is important but not enough.

>dealing with a web of Red Homing Bullshit

If the first dies before attacking, then for the second, no matter what, I hit the dirt and drill it. If it's slow to attack, it'll die; if it's quick, the RHB will be dragged down to floor level, while I deal fatal damage. Easy peasy either way. Before, I was gambling on rushing in for the pointblanked speedkill, which RNG will simply disallow sometimes.
User avatar
copy-paster
Posts: 1686
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:33 pm
Location: Indonesia

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by copy-paster »

Tried out Contra Force with emulator's overclock to the max. It's nice to see how this game play without slowdown but sometimes the game runs faster and parts where it becomes Dynamite Batman's 3-1 syndrome, looks like Konami really designed this with those fat slowdown.

Oh and if you see the end credits programmer "Hori" listed on it, it's the same programmer who did FC Parodius Da, or aka 5FPS: The Game :lol:
Speaking of programmer, "Tomcat" appears on titles that push FC to limits (Crisis Force, TMNT tournament fighters, Zen) big props to this guy.
User avatar
Volteccer_Jack
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:55 pm

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Volteccer_Jack »

The big expansion/update for Death's Gambit finally dropped, and hoo boy. Expansion is an understatement. They've nearly doubled the size of the map and the number of weapons, rebalanced and designed a ton of stuff, and added a bunch of new abilities. Air dash, which was previously an optional lategame ability, is now obtained from defeating the second boss, and that alone is gonna be a massive gamechanger. I would not have previously recommended this game but it's almost a whole new game now, and so far it's quite promising.
"Don't worry about quality. I've got quantity!"
User avatar
BIL
Posts: 19069
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Always interested to hear that one's name. Never actually played it, tbh never even seen it - but with a bit of minor shooping, it provides one of the only decent illustrations of IREM's Tsukikage ever. :cool: reflects Tsukikage's Really Violent Day better than any of Irem's few official pieces. Reminds me of JB 5th's ending in ESPRade, where the adrenaline has burnt off, and all those inescapable brushes with slashing/blasting/scorching death become apparent.

Image
User avatar
Stevens
Posts: 3804
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 11:44 pm
Location: Brooklyn NY

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

BIL wrote:Steel Assault st2 boss BGM gives me a Tecno Boner Image
The ost is fucking sick. Arranged I would swear Dragonforce was playing it.
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
User avatar
Volteccer_Jack
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:55 pm

Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Volteccer_Jack »

I love the character portraits in Death's Gambit. Really got this vibe of beauty and mortality. The rest of the game looks pretty good at times, but it just can't compete with stuff like this
Spoiler
Image
I'm really enjoying the changes so far. It's bordering on remake territory, they really went and added airdash and double jump to the very beginning of the game and then overhauled the level design to go with it. I'll give it a proper write up once I get through the new content.
"Don't worry about quality. I've got quantity!"
Post Reply