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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 1:22 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
If the controls are well implemented, I'd give it points just for getting rid of the rotary sticks. :D

Yeah, that's mostly it. I think the music's done better too. Otherwise iirc they're pretty close? I haven't played the arcade version a whole lot because... yeah, rotary.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 2:05 pm 


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Only vanishingly acquainted with the PCB, but I'm quite fond of MD Resistance's Shin Contra-styled aim lock. Works surprisingly well, especially with the special weapons' backup.

You goddamn right I can hit the dirt while I'm torching your ass, flyboy Image 100% SHOTDOWN OR BUST
Spoiler: show
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Solid workhorse 16bit run/gun. I'd be down with it anyway, because Stupid Sexy Sakimoto blows the goddamn doors off with yet another MD landmark. Scintillating. Bonerizing Image
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 3:47 am 



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I am in a bit of DECO phase. Am I allowed to talk about the two Dark Seal games+Dragongun?

...someone, in some thread, mentioned that some of their works had an Amiga vibe.
I spotted a reference to Shadow of the Beast in Dark Seal II (fourth stage, one of the walls in a room towards the upper part of the dungeoun).
Do we count this as evidence for the influence? :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 5:49 am 


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Dark Seal? Absolutely. Dragongun? Also absolutely, but on the down-low. :wink: If it's a Famicom-conceivable arcadesque (preferably about killing motherfuckers Image), it's fine for discussion here. :cool:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 12:36 pm 


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Been posting in the beat'em up thread about TNWA, but I figured hard data like this might be more fitting for the R2RKMF thread.
I was curious about the damage values in the game, so I did some research and made a small script to log HP differences on enemies, to document the amount of damage caused by each of Ninja's moves.
Nothing really surprising, but it might be of use to someone somewhere:

Single hit (standing/crouching): 16
Full combo: 64 (nunchuck hits for multiple small hits)
Crouching full combo: 56
Blaster finisher: 48 (full combo: 80)
Dashing into enemy: 8
Dash kick: 18
Jump kick (neutral/straight): 24
Down+jump attack: 42 (a sum of multiple smaller hits)
Straight throw: 24
Spinning throw (up): 20
Knee slam (down): 48
Enemy hit with other enemy: 12
Blaster "smart bomb": 48

A combo actually does a notable amount of damage over the knee slam, but on the other hand it takes longer to perform, so it evens out. I'm a little surprised how small the advantage of a blaster finisher is over a regular combo, but on the other hand it hits everything else in that direction, so it's still great for groups of enemies.
It's also interesting that the spin throw does less damage than a straight throw, but the difference is mostly negligible. You don't choose these moves based on the damage output.

I might update this post with values for the other characters (or at least Kunoichi) is there's any interest in that.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 12:47 pm 


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Very cool. :smile: I recall reading something similar for Kunoichi, in a TASer's notes, but I'd love to see any data you get. My main takeaway was, while her Flurry does the most damage of any single attack in the game, it's nearly all concentrated in the final hit. I love that all/nothing philosophy, particularly with it being such an intensely vulnerable move. Classic risk/reward.

(beautifully, it's also the game's single weakest attack - the 1hit version is the only thing a Knife Army can survive. this is actually useful, in a couple spots - lets you knock one down without freeing his slot for someone tougher. OFC, this can work with any enemy you don't want to destroy just yet)

I was heartbroken at first to see Once Again's Flurry is invincible - however, whether by accident or design, it works out fine there. With OA's monstrously larger crowds, and massively higher combo potential, the OG Flurry would've been obsoleted. Being invincible, it allows you to aggressively invade crowds with a superjump, assassinate a priority target, then just as aggressively vault out of the ruck that'll have pounced in the meantime.

Interestingly, while OA Ninja's swing still does minimal base damage, befitting its role of crowd leveller, the juggle engine gives it a nasty secondary role: pointblank bludgeoner. Anything overlapping with Ninja and his prey is gonna take a much sterner thrashing, here.

Spoiler: show
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Reminds me of scruffing zako in ZOE2, then using them to bludgeon their buddies. Robo Violence Par Excellence :cool:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:29 am 


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For anyone curious here's my damage value script for TNWA, works with the Mesen-S emulator, which also happens to be the best SNES emulator.
http://eternal.dk/tnwa.lua

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:46 am 


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Love the Final Fight/Bare Knuckle-style nametags :cool:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:52 am 


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Ghosts n Goblins resurrection is out.

I thought maybe I'd leave it and just play uhh.. ghouls n ghosts on genesis.
but then I thought you know what, I already cut my teeth on the arcade version. Maybe i'll reward myself and buy a NEW game :shock:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:09 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
For anyone curious here's my damage value script for TNWA, works with the Mesen-S emulator, which also happens to be the best SNES emulator.


Fuck yeah, Mesen-S rocks. It's the only emulator other than higan to actually emulate the Super Game Boy, not just simulate its borders.

Thanks for the very useful tool.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:09 pm 


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BIL wrote:
beautifully, it's also the game's single weakest attack - the 1hit version is the only thing a Knife Army can survive.

They can also survive a single crouch poke from Kamaitachi, though landing only one poke is harder than delivering a fatal double poke.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:30 pm 


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Kamaitachi ruinin everything as usual :evil: :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:28 am 


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A Taito lore question for knowledgeable people. I've been playing Ben Bero Beh arcade (1984) on and off for quite a while now. There's a pretty common cameo of the Elevator Action badguy, who will pop out of a door and run to another, seen him many times. However I recently saw something different: some kind of swat-team looking character, with a mask an sub-machinegun, who did the same thing. The sprite was a bit bigger, and far more detailed than Elevator Action. If that's another cameo, any idea what that character could be? I've only seen this once in at least 50 hours of play, so getting a pic might be tricky.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:35 am 


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Haven't played Ben Bero Beh much, or seen this character. But maybe it's the guy from Front Line? (1982) He has more of a para-trooper look to him though.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:06 am 


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The only scan I can find offhand is unfortunately tiny, but is it the gasmask dude on the arcade instruction sheet?

Image

Seems to have a name/description, though it's hard to make out here. Interesting find! I don't recognise the character design from anywhere, offhand. TBH, the game Bero reminds me most of, artistically, is Namco's Baraduke - both sharing memorably chibi-hideous monsters, with a penchant for surprises.

Not a lot on this game even googling its Japanese spelling べんべろべえ, it seems. Prominent result:

"Leon! HAAALP!" :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:23 am 


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Yeah, definitely the gas mask from that image. I guess I'm not going insane. Thanks!
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:27 am 


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Was just coming back to say, this scan may avert eyestrain ^__^ All credit to @danna1213

Spoiler: show
Image


What a cool little game, its art style is totally unique. Kinda cute, kinda morbid! Burn victims as zombies? :shock: I wonder what the artist's story is, wouldn't surprise me if they were prolific elsewhere.

(click for full res)
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:37 am 


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I didn't put much time at all into that one as it seemed kinda clunky to control. I'll give it another whirl this weekend.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:10 am 


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BIL wrote:
I wonder what the artist's story is, wouldn't surprise me if they were prolific elsewhere.

The gradients on those walls and platforms remind me a lot of Bonanza Bros.

Gas mask guy is clearly Knarrenheinz. The developers were probably secretly Sodom fans. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:52 pm 


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:mrgreen:

Image

Just noticed Mr. Chack'n there at bottom-centre.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:49 pm 


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I remember coming across that Ben Bero Beh game when I was going through MAME. Wasn't impressed with the gameplay, or the controls. Slow and clunky. The art style is unique and hilarious, though. Too bad about the game itself.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:01 pm 


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HONK HONK - Have you guys seen this yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9-49kRlpAg

Looks like it could be fun. Considering giving it a shot.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:45 pm 


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I'm getting some red flags from that footage. Like, it's one pixel away from having little damage value numbers pop up as well.
But it looks pretty, so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. Can't judge stuff I haven't played :D Bosses still look cool.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:55 pm 


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Stevens wrote:
HONK HONK - Have you guys seen this yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9-49kRlpAg

Looks like it could be fun. Considering giving it a shot.


Heh, I just looked at the game yesterday and thought it failed right away. There's a Navi character that's interrupting the run'n honk constantly telling you what to do next and updating your objectives - maybe it gets better later on, but I turned the video off when there were literally three such interruptions within the first minute after starting the first stage.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:29 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
I'm getting some red flags from that footage. Like, it's one pixel away from having little damage value numbers pop up as well.
But it looks pretty, so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. Can't judge stuff I haven't played :D Bosses still look cool.

Yeah, looks dubious. Those enemies are barely fighting back and if the screen really shakes that much and has that many visual effects going on then they're probably going problems with enemy bullet visibility. Those coins might be point items but more likely they're for RPG-style unlocks.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:22 pm 


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Been playing some Blazing Chrome again, really solid Run N' Gun.

I've never played it, but I know Hard Corps is revered around these parts. What makes it so good? Is it the pacing? Set pieces? Enemy placement? I think it has branching paths..?

I'll take a shot and say all of the above.

I think it is time to play it.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:45 pm 


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In the "Event Rush" school (ta HG101!), Hard Corps is a game of considerable highs and lows. A lot of bosses in the first half are overly trivialised by safespots, and its mandatory fourth boss is infamously overlong - with the branching paths, you have to sit through it every time. Nakazato was avowedly going for replay via branching paths, rather than a single honed course, and sometimes spreads things a bit thin. I think a skilled editor could assemble it into a masterpiece.

The four endgame paths are far stronger, with a handful of all-series setpiece/boss highlights. Style meter is off the charts throughout, even its simplest bosses tend to entertain, with their cyberpunky antics and blistering death throes. Unforgettable range of cheerfully vicious, multi-sprite meat/metal abominations.

US/JP is a significant distinction - although content is identical, the former unceremoniously ditched Japan's generous 3HP for classic 1HKOs. So you're gonna have a much harder road to the top, even if ultimately, a nomiss run is identical in both.

I grew up with US, but these days prefer JP. With the quick n' dirty switcharoo, some patterns go from questionable on MD to total BS on Genesis. :lol: JP also has a Stage Select cheat, which is excellent if you're on hardware, letting you play all four endgames in a single session.

Flawed but lovable game. I'd rank it well behind both Contra III and Alien Soldier, but I still consider it an essential member of that school.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:28 pm 


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Stevens wrote:
What makes it so good? Is it the pacing? Set pieces? Enemy placement? I think it has branching paths..?


(The) Hard Corps' strengths has always been in the setpieces. It delivers on the premise of just making you feel like a really badass action hero.
In actuality, a lot of the boss fights come down to rote safespot exploration and simple patterns, which on their own is quite underwhelming, but makes for an overall really nice rollercoaster ride. I agree with BIL that Contra III is a lot better, but Hard Corps is still a quality game.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:42 pm 


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TIL your flamethrower whip in Shin Contra can cancel some enemy shots (the red/blue type one), such nice little detail. Also not long ago Konami trademarked it's JP title for whatever reason, possibly re-release/remake?
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:48 pm 


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^ Yep, Neo Contra's flamethrower is exactly the same. :smile:
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