Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Ghegs »

Trenz did absolutely everything for the NES version, which I think is pretty cool. I remember reading that he did some code trickery to make the game run at the proper speed on NTSC systems as well (despite the game being officially released only in Europe), but I couldn't give you a source for that. The game does run well on my Famicom, but I can't say if it's exactly the same speed as if running it on a PAL system. The music does sound a bit faster, though.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

I read (in some YouTube video comments) that the music (when played on NTSC system) isn't so much faster as it is higher-pitched. Just hearsay.
Last edited by Obiwanshinobi on Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BrianC »

How does Super Turrican work with the hkdoctor 72-60 pin adapter? I'm not completely sure, but I think Codemasters may have done some similar PAL/NTSC trickery on NES. I'm really impressed by the graphics in some of their games. Micro Machines even has parallax scrolling in parts.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

Jebus, you weren't kidding about Kunoichi's difficulties with TNWA's last boss Perikles! :o Casually sauntered in and promptly got my ass kicked. Need to be surgically precise with the positioning and defense.

edit: ahh, I've got the hang of it now. :mrgreen: One positive about Kunoichi's hair toss - its arc is nice and short, facilitating immediate second and third shots (and typically keeping the area clear in the process). You can do a lot of damage in quick succession, when the opportunity comes along. Otherwise I just hunker down, let the lasers do lots of collateral damage, and try to take out the most troublesome enemy types (claws and phasers are pretty goddamn unhelpful... karate bruisers OTOH are handy with their high HP and orthodox movement).

Hair's a really cool move in general. The slightly delayed fall is perfect for squashing backstabbers and chasers. Also invaluable for setting up safe super-combo launchpads. Toss an enemy, stand over and get slashing as it rises, boom - katana floors the lot. Worth noting that the st1 bosstype's two clones (st5-1 and st7-3) don't have the original's wakeup invincibility, making them easy prey for this technique. Otherwise, yeah, bad idea on boss enemies!
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Sir Ilpalazzo
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

Beat some cool stuff lately.

J.J. Squawkers

Cleared on one credit. I decided to try this out after seeing people here talk it up, and it's pretty badass! I love the furious, random enemies, and the weapons are all quirky in neat ways - I think it's really satisfying to nail enemies with the default tomato / pumpkin weapon's arc. The controls are great too - I like the pseudo-fixed jump and the occasionally-useful crouch walk. Not a fan of any of the bosses aside from the first or last though; those are fairly great but the rest are way too simplistic to be interesting. The game was maybe a little too short too, but the second loop seems like a real step up in terms of quality so I can accept that.

Mute Crimson+

A cool platformer I found on Steam. I'm not really a fan of Super Meat Boy, but the fastest way to describe this would be something like that with a splash of Ninja Gaiden (and thankfully much better than the former). It's a precision-platformer with single-hit deaths - you have a small moveset (you can double-jump and wall-climb, and your only mode of attack is a simple sword slash), but the level design is great and varied enough to keep things interesting all the way through. The game gets pretty challenging at the end, too. Normally you have infinite lives, but after beating the game you unlock an "arcade mode" with limited lives, which is seriously brutal.

Castlevania

Pulled off a deathless, holy water-less run.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by copy-paster »

My friend of mine told me he want to clear SMB with lowest score ASAP, so we played it and yes we cleared it with lots of tries, drama, and heart-pumping moments.

EDIT : image fixed

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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Imhotep »

BIL wrote:Speaking of hurtbox cancels - great Astyanax writeup, Imhotep. :smile: Have you tried the (barely related) FC game at all? I'm quite fond of its charge meter groove, aggressive bombing and workhorse action/platforming, even if it's not quite a top shelf favourite. Another big sprites game that knows better than to push the precision dodging angle too hard.
Thanks. I've played the emulated The Lord of King FC version briefly and liked it, have a real copy on the way now. I also want to try out the Legendary Axes.

I kept playing the arcade version a bit longer and it was a satisfying experience, there's room for developing new tricks and strategies.
I've also tried to counter stop it, it's possible to endlessly milk the first section of the game. However, the counter would just roll over to 1000'000+ (a normal playthrough is worth around 250'000).

At the moment I'm busy with Ganryu (MVS), a very competent ninja sidescroller reminiscent of the 8 Bit Generation. Clearing it didn't take long, but playthroughs are still fun because the action is so fluid.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

Sir Ilpalazzo wrote:Castlevania

Pulled off a deathless, holy water-less run.
Nice controlling of Dracula's second form, you were subweaponless for quite a while there!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BrianC »

The Turrican Genesis speed difference may not be as much as I thought. I tried it via emulator (I have a real cart, but no other way to check for PAL-NTSC differences) and the speed seemed similar, but with faster music in NTSC. The NES Super Turrican seemed more sped up in comparison. There is also a NTSC proto of Super Turrican that hasn't been dumped yet, though it's up in the air whether or not it has any differences.

It can be tricky determining speed diffences since NTSC is faster and even optimized games will be slightly faster in NTSC. Some games are partially optimized like Ufouria, which seems to have no adjustments to game speed, but has the correct music speed in PAL. I'm disappointed I chose to get that on VC actually thinking it would be adjusted for NTSC, but at least the game itself is fully playable, as well as being a nice game.

I played a bit of Rockin' Kats. It's pretty fun, but a but on the clunky side. Swing mechanic is interesting and I especially like the bounce move, but control is nowhere near as tight as Bionic Commando.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

BIL wrote: Nice controlling of Dracula's second form, you were subweaponless for quite a while there!
Thanks. Not really an ideal run, I wish the Frankenstein and Death fights were cleaner, but it's passable at least.

Right now I'm going for a deathless run of Castlevania Bloodlines. Definitely within my reach; the only thing that gives me trouble is stage 5 due to its length and lack of reliable meat.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by dojo_b »

This summer/fall I took a break from NES sidescrollers and checked back in with Steam games, all platformers or similar. I had access to a Windows machine for a change, which opened up lots of options. Some that I cleared basic story mode:

-Spelunky HD: A magnificent platformer IMO, one of the very best for "pure" (as opposed to action) platformer fans. Mario-style action within a more enclosed cave environment, with a short whip, limited bombs, and occasional access to fun weapons, but overall a low-powered combat system placing a priority on skillful evasion and hop-n-bop.

The auto-generated levels have a variety and a rough, naturalistic feel that works really well; they don't have the tightly-designed feeling of other standout games, but patterns certainly emerge and building a sense for them is part of the acquisition of skill. There are sixteen levels in four worlds, and one death means game over, so those wanting the tension of a make-or-break campaign will be at home here, although casual players will also find that it's a great environment in which to screw around. Notable things happen---individual playthroughs will often enough have distinct narrative arcs---and I will often be tempted into imprudent action just to spice up this narrative or make something funny happen.

It is hard---I beat it once without shortcuts after many hours, and that's all I can afford for now---but quite satisfying. It doesn't have overwhelming hordes or insane jumps, but it knows how to wear you down with a succession of small risks. As much as any other game I've played, this game ruthlessly exploits the player's avarice and impatience. But there's no easy solution. I have a running debate with myself about finding the "right" level of wariness of traps, of exploration of the environment for loot, and so on---too little care and your player will die, but too much care and you're investing a good deal of time in a run that, on its own, has small odds of success.

The HD version fixes essentially all the complaints I had about the freeware version's mechanics, particularly around combat, and it just looks great. A finely-honed game that is also deep and should have lasting importance.

I have this part of me that likes to identify clusters of games and group them together as a challenge, especially when some franchise came up short. E.g. there should've been more classic Ninja Gaiden titles, so I'll hit up Shinobi as a supplement. Well now I've got the notion that there are at least four quality PC platformers about trap-dodging, treasure-seeking Indy Jones wannabes. I'm talking Spelunky above; 1001 Spikes (also completed); Rick Dangerous (playable online, a real bastard of a trap-memorizer with limited lives---I haven't beaten level 1); and La-Mulana---strange Japanese game which I know thru its reputation for tough platforming and boss fights, plus inscrutable puzzles. Perhaps there are others? And will I have the gumption to make it through more of these?


-Fenix Rage: a brazen Meat Boy knockoff, and though distinctly lesser-than, it's still acceptable entertainment for fans who can't get enough. The same quote "hardcore" style where you chip away at hard small levels with infinite lives. At this point I find such games relaxing; it's just a different headspace from campaign-oriented games, I wouldn't take one over the other.

Fenix has infinite double-jumps and in-air dash, so it's not a platformer per se, and is more focused on dodging flying hazards; but this makes less difference to the experience than one might think. Some hard levels, but didn't reach the same fever pitch as Meat Boy's later Dark World levels, and also suffer a distinct lack of variety.

-They Bleed Pixels: as discussed earlier, pretty intense stuff, a tricky platformer with gobs of spikes, slippery surfaces, and feisty enemies. Also similar to Meat Boy in terms of the momentum-driven acrobatics within large spiky enclosures; but the taller heroine and attack combo/beat-em-up elements give it a different feel, with plenty of toothsome violence that would appeal to folks around here.

-Mute Crimson+: I would differ with Ilpalazzo on this one; I think the Ninja Gaiden influence is primary in terms of the movement/mechanics; the Meat Boy similarities are more about (a) checkpoints, one-hit kills, and infinite lives, (b) emphasis on hard platforming over action---although our ninja does have a sword and is asked to use it with sharp timing. But the style of the movement is that of NG (or Megaman) in terms of being momentum-free with relatively tight short jumps, typically across smaller expanses, and with less acrobatics.
This game has somewhat spare mechanics and aesthetics (monochromatic plus red for enemies/hazards, which is a valid approach that puts visual clarity first). I didn't appreciate the ninja's bobble-head design or the excessive fake mis-translations; but it is solidly built and has quite imaginative level design, particularly toward the end (where the difficulty also ramps up nicely). A much more casual experience in its standard mode than NG, but definitely worthwhile.


-Flywrench: this one is an odd abstract flight sim in a 2D side-view environment. The protagonist is a small, ungraceful craft with flapping wings. It is a deliberately unnatural and obtuse style of motion that make even simple maneuvers difficult, coupled with an unintuitive set of obstacles that you can safely pass through only while your craft has certain specified colors (which are also controlled by your movement). Overcoming these twin headaches at once is more or less the point of the game. Meat Boy-style infinite lives and short hard levels; unusual acid-spiked retro aesthetic with a nice selection of jungle-type electronica (and little to no dubstep). A worthwhile departure from the norm, though probably not something I would revisit often.

-One that I'm excited about but in the early stages: Master Spy, a stealth-oriented game that's really a precision platformer, and invests heavily in unique background scenery for its stages.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

dojo_b wrote:The HD version fixes essentially all the complaints I had about the freeware version's mechanics, particularly around combat, and it just looks great.
Could you please elaborate on said fixes? That enormous post (if I had to highlight one paragraph, it would be
Sure, the new enemies and maps are nice and the graphics are pretty, but the game frankly feels like it's a shoddier, less polished game engine, one that just makes me want to play the original version. I loved the original Spelunky, but this one just feels all wrong. I imagine most people who lavish the game with praise don't notice these issues as much because they haven't played the original enough to really appreciate its game engine. The only real change I like is that holding down the whip button doesn't cause you to run, running is truly a separate button now only and you can't accidentally run by holding whip, but even this is fairly minor.
) made for an interesting read and I wouldn't mind reading someone's refutation too.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by dojo_b »

Hmm, OK. quoting from Roo:
The HUD takes up too much goddamn space.
It wasn't a problem for me, although I could see it possibly becoming one in multiplayer. It is a somewhat prominent display (esp. the Udjat eye is too big when you've got it), but it also looks good and is helpful info.
The view distance is horrible.
The view distance is IMO perfectly fine for the purpose of short-term movement and tactics, with the exception of vertical drops where it's true you do have to look down to pan down. I never minded that because I'm not speedrunning and it's a tiny expenditure compared to all the time wasted by the player's own fuck-ups. Even in the original the need to ledge-hang for longer drops was already a slow-down. Actually I'm grateful for most reminders in this game to be careful because, like I suggested, it preys upon your temptation to rush.

It's true that it's slightly harder to make out the shape of lower levels with the HD version's larger view, and hence to plan your navigation. But that just means the game is more challenging in that sense, not necessarily a bad thing. In any case it's way more than compensated for by the advantage that the characters and tiles are now large enough to see well, and beautifully rendered. The movement of enemies has also been made more graceful.

This also points back to my biggest complaint about the freeware, the fact that you are a tiny little guy with a whip no longer than a body length, who moves quite quickly and is trying to kill critters (particularly spiders) whose movement can be erratic and jittery. That basic encounter was way too tricky and not in a good way, and was not mechanically or visually satisfying even when you pulled it off. Basic combat has gotten much more solid and satisfying, without being trivialized.

The lack of a painful and dangerous knock-back of the player upon combat injury (aside from bombs, traps, and falls) was another issue I had with combat in the original, which is better handled now.
Ropes can't be thrown downwards when hanging.
I just don't consider this a major issue, it's not something you generally need to do (again speaking as a non-speedrunner). There was a clear push to simplify the controls with this game, which I fully support unless it clearly handicaps the player.

Oh and on the plus side, they fixed the freeware game's problem where if you tried to climb a rope in front of the exit door, you'd walk thru the door instead.
You grab ledges if you're near them even if you're not moving towards the ledge.


Roo is right that the grabbing can be irritating (although it doesn't seem to happen too often and it can save your ass). I'd forgotten that it was handled differently in the original. Maybe Ninja Gaiden has made me resigned to this kind of thing.
Item throw distance is way too fucking long. Seriously, Spelunky HD's default throw distance makes it impossible to toss the damsel over short gaps safely.
Well, first, damsels are made of sturdy stuff in this game. Second, throwing is IMO primarily for projectiles and bombs; you're more likely to want to drop a damsel to a lower level while you retrieve something before descending to rejoin her. For projectiles, a strong throw is useful. For bombs, it's dangerous, but that's part of the fun and challenge. This is a light-hearted, cartoony game where mishaps should be encouraged. Btw there is also the option to aim your throws diagonally up or down, which in combination with the option of jumping gives you more control over your throws.

Autopickup on sticky bomb [power-ups]. Sticky bombs suck, I hate them. I can 'cook' bombs to blow open ceilings just fine, thank you, and I prefer to retain my ability to ricochet bombs around walls, so why the fuck must I be forced to pick up sticky bomb items if I accidentally touch one instead of the original game, where you had to physically press down+whip to collect it?
If you're so good, why can't you just avoid walking into a stationary power-up you don't want? Yes, they could've made pickup optional here. I don't mind this though. Sticky bombs are easier to work with; most players will have trouble blowing up ceilings without 'em, and the ricochet is an advanced technique, so I just don't see this as a big priority.
The scepter is now fucking useless. Instead of being an awesome endgame weapon that let you tear through shit like a boss or trade it for a journey to a kickass level filled with tons of hawt loot, the scepter is now a piece of shit garbage weapon that's more likely to kill YOU than it is to be useful
The scepter was ludicrously overpowered in the original. Levels 14-15 were effectively just power-trips for a suddenly godlike player. Really Anubis' scepter was never meant for mortal hands, and its two-edged nature in HD is entirely appropriate to our hubris in taking it.

It's also quite possible to learn to anticipate how it can turn against you and play accordingly (fire from a peripheral rather than central location; understand how the purple orbs seek the nearest mortal flesh, and anticipate what they'll do after a kill; recognize the important distinction between enemies who leave corpses and those who disintegrate). Bottom line, the game is more fun this way (singleplayer; haven't played multi).

I imagine most people who lavish the game with praise don't notice these issues as much because they haven't played the original enough to really appreciate its game engine.
I played both games for 20+ hours, and cleared both; while the original was already an amazing game, my preference for HD is clear-cut. I don't feel any sense of the shoddiness Roo imputes to it; HD just feels *great* to play, and nearly all changes are for the better (for the average player, and the experts can adjust).
Dark levels are irritating to navigate in Spelunky HD. Originally, they were frustrating, but you started the level with a box of flares which dropped three light sources that you could juggle and throw ahead of you to give you quite a boost to your view distance. Now, you get only ONE torch, which has a frankly pitiful light radius compared to the original flares.
Dark levels are challenging (which I like, although it introduces variance in difficulty between runs). These are levels where you have to proceed with special caution, but in my experience you're rarely just fucked over; you can catch clues like the sounds of rousing enemies and such. The torches on the wall are not 'nearly useless' as claimed; they do help when you are backtracking to rescue the damsel or retrieve a weapon. Also, the player now has a small patch of visibility at all times, whereas in the original you could be (I think) totally shrouded in black.

The Croc Men. They basically can't be killed normally because they teleport and negate the damage anytime something hits 'em. You have to hope they teleport into a wall and die, or that they simply leave you alone. They can instantly kill you if, by random chance, one decides to warps into you.
The insta-kill teleport can happen and is really asinine, I agree. But mainly these are guys you just want to give wide berths to and evade rather than assault. Not the best addition to the game, but again the Temple levels were too easy; scepter downgrade plus the Anubis fight and Croc Men feels about right in terms of added difficulty.
Last edited by dojo_b on Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

Detailed enough, thanks.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

Inspired by Sir Ilpalazzo, decided to fix the horribly desynced audio on my ancient Valken run. Same fisting goodness, now without sonic precognition! Not enough fisting goodness, really. Always get L3 Punch cued up as st2 fades out, so you can sock st3's first mech right in he face as you launch into the void. Similarly, hold [fire] to give the game's very first zako a bad day every time! Don't cinematically dash out of the president's office though, you'll spawn in the next area facing that way and get owned by barricade. >_<

Reaffirmed as one of the best interactive movies ever, alongside Strider Hiryu. In your face, Tom Zito! Wherever you are!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

I definitely had fun with Valken during my first few playthroughs a few months ago, but yeah, my recent revisit has definitely bumped it up from a solid game to a fairly great one. It's something of an aesthetic masterpiece, the amount of variety is fantastic, and the controls are amazing. There are cooler action games, I think (the guard's strength still bugs me) but it's definitely one of the top titles on the SNES.

I just beat Castlevania Bloodlines with no deaths. I'm kind of annoyed that there are so many tiny failures in this run compared to some of my previous attempts, which failed despite being a lot more solid, but I'll let that slide I guess. Also a really great game - I still probably like CV1, X68K, and Rondo better, but Bloodlines is undoubtedly fantastic. I definitely wish the Elizabeth fight was less of a wet fart though. (Speaking of X68K, I'd like to get a no-death run of that recorded too, but this annoying jump costs me a life two-thirds of attempts (the other third has already failed somewhere else). Kind of frustrating. I'm probably going to learn to set up a PCE emulator just so I can record a Rondo no-death though; I haven't actually pulled that off on console but I'm sure it won't be particularly hard.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

Bloodlines and Rondo both really shine on no-misses. The former shares a classic feedback loop with The Super Shinobi and Alien Soldier: densely action-packed stages, crushing POW restricted to unscathed killers, a natural focus on ever more perilously aggressive runs. Rondo's damage scale is surprisingly harsh - it's very easy to reach a boss running on fumes if you're careless, and most of them don't go down without a decent fight. It's rightly acclaimed for its nonlinear innovations, but I consider it easily as hardcore an action/platformer as the other traditionals.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Imhotep »

I've been playing Ken-Go (Arcade) lately and have cleared the (rather easy, lower third tier in arcade difficulty) first loop. The second loop is brutal, though, and requires completely different strategies (more and thougher enemies, stronger boss attacks), I got massacred by the second stage.

"Master Fencer" is a fitting title for the game, as the normal stance is charge mode, fending off enemy attacks (also in mid air) and then releasing one quick, strong slash that kills everything on one side of the screen. In this sense the game's ingredients (big sprites, focus on position and timing) work quite well.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Ed Oscuro »

I liked that one enough to get the board - haven't really spent much time with it, though. I guess it mainly suffers in the public due to not being another Ninja Spirit, and of course it has somewhat fewer things going on at once. Still great fun when you get the hang of it!

Anyhow, got RetroArch working just fine now, and Threads of Fate is...well, it's Threads of Fate. I'm kind of annoyed by some of the mazelike and throwaway level design here. There's no reason for the copy paste extravaganza in the second stage, for example. The platforming is often annoying too, and so is being frozen in place during the invincibility flash after falling. Jumping also feels laggy.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

Alien Soldier

What is everyone's favorite weapon loadout? For years I only ever doubled up on both flame and lancer, but upon returning to the game I find that that lopsided setup leaves you screwed on some bosses. I'm trying to stick with the double lancer and have tried replacing one of the flames with buster and sword, and although buster seems a little more broadly useful, I think I prefer sword's extra power.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

AFAIK, double lancer + double flame is objectively the best setup, at least for speed. MrMonkeyMan and Hebo use it in their killer speedruns, IIRC switching to a third lancer before Seven Force. Both weapons deal heavy damage, the former from any range and the latter making brisk work of organic enemies. As you suggest though, there are serious drawbacks requiring an experienced operator. Both exhaust fast and recharge slow, lancer is sluggish, and flame is useless on anything metal or underwater (hello Seven Force!). Definitely not a magic bullet setup.

I don't go for sheer speed (all respect to runners, as always - there's just way too much zipping past zako I want to burn and shred with cyber violence*). So I find Lancer2/Flame/Buster very comfy. Buster takes a lot of strain off the power weapons in the early game. Starts with generous ammo and gains steeply, recharges super-quickly, and does good all-round damage with no elemental weakness. Great set for getting to grips with the game. I like to get the third lancer now, to speed up Seven Force, but it's not advisable until survival is down cold and you can focus on doing maximum damage. Too many missed shots or hits taken, and you're crippled.

Sword is too thirsty and slow to recover for my liking. Spread and homing are useless AFAIK. Weapon balance isn't the game's strong suit, haha. It's about learning to compensate for Lancer+Flame's shortcomings via ammo management and deftly aggressive Phoenix Forcing. Note that Phoenix cancels anything Counter Force can - you can demolish projectile-happy bosses like Bugmax and Sunset Sting by burning their attacks for scads of HP gems.

Might still be interesting to try a run with one's less-favoured weapons, though. My goddamn gamepad died, imma wait until payday and try for something a bit sturdier...

About ammo, a critical bit of info that's not made explicit: weapons start recharging a short time after being deselected, and only stop recharging upon re-selection (merely cycling through the menu is harmless). Never select a weapon unless you're ready to use it; you'll needlessly interrupt its recharge. A related tip - if you're waiting for a boss to finish its intro, cue up your desired weapon in the menu and wait. It'll keep charging until you hit [fire]. Much cleaner than waiting for the fight to start, then switching. Oh weapon menu... I disliked it at first, but much like Ex-Ranza's mobile gun rack, it feels pro as hell switching instruments of annihilation in the heat of battle without missing a beat.

*also, this game's boss RNG is brutally unhelpful for clear times. In my dodgy current run I totally screw around post-Spider, having damn near let him drag me away.
Spoiler
Then I get an ideal "no throw" Z-Leo fight. I've had better runs where he throws me relentlessly, torpedoing any hope of a PB time. Not that I mind. It's a harrowingly fun attack to dodge and it looks so MFN cool! "Heh heh heh... RAWR!"
**at the screen edge where possible. It'll burn in place, devastating enemy HP. Witness the appalling Cyber Violence Against Fishman:
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Uh, speaking of my run again - make sure to employ the game's Shinobi-style tier switch in the dark tower before Sunset Sting. I couldn't work out why I failed that first jump half the time. Hold [up] then hit [jump] for guaranteed success.
Last edited by BIL on Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sir Ilpalazzo
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

Ah, thanks for the writeup. I'm aware of some of what you've told me (weapons recharging faster and faster when you leave then unequipped is one of my favorite little touches; I love that element of resource management), but there's info there that's new to me. What exactly is the penalty you mention for getting hit? Glancing at the HUD makes me think there's some kind of ammo penalty, but I'm not sure what's going on. Great post; it's hard to read it and not immediately get excited about playing the game again. It's truly a rich, one-of-a-kind game, and probably the best application of Treasure's signature "everything and the kitchen sink" approach to game design.

I did a quick playthrough earlier, using Buster/Sword?Flame/Lancer. It served me well for the most part; the only issue was running low on ammo during the last stages of the Seven Force fight and having to stall - a sign that I definitely need to double up on Lancers next time. The run actually would have been a no-miss were it not for a bizarre mishap right after that fish boss in the gif you linked, but honestly - given how gross-looking the fight with Seven Force ended up in that run, I'm glad that wasn't the one to go on the highlight reel.

Also, no kidding about Rondo of Blood's damage scale being rougher than you'd think. It's easy to consistently beat the game with only one or two deaths, but I always seem to make a mistake on either Death or Shaft. A little frustrating!
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

There's no direct ammo penalty for taking damage (the default HUD gives numerical data for damage taken and given, in the HP and ammo rows respectively). But generally speaking, going un-hit means more Phoenix, and less ammo expended. Versus Seven Force, taking down Valkyrie cleanly and reaching Medusa in top shape is particularly helpful - you can land several consecutive Phoenixes on the "gem trail," freeing up lots of Lancer.

Note that you can also shoot the item boxes along the way for an ammo refill - ideally, do both. For the love of god don't accidentally swap out Lancer for something bad, that's a bigger danger than Seven Force itself. :lol: Even Zeroforce (no ammo) will count as the hit you need to switch a box - probably easier to connect, given the autoscrolling. Zeroforce is actually pretty handy at certain points... lately it's my weapon of choice for a good catman biker massacre.

You also want to take down Medusa before the really nasty minefields arrive. Counterforce the earlier ones at her for even more damage.

TBH, Sylpheed and Artemis are both easy to stall once you've absorbed their behaviour, and the latter is a prime refuelling spot for both HP and ammo (she has three very distinct types of projectile - mortar, direct and homing - ripe for cancelling; pestering with Flame/Zeroforce seems to provoke more shots, less meowww). But doing well on the earlier forms means less sitting about before Siren, who you don't want to fight without a little HP+Lancer buffer. Those mines hurt like hell, and cancelling for gems is unassured+dangerous. Seven Force's time limit is actually quite generous, but obviously you want to keep ahead of that too.

Such a killer performance piece. It's generally quite static, but the deeply interwoven finesse element makes for a perilously high technical ceiling. The defter your play, the mightier your bird. Then there's the luxuriant aesthetic, hardware-lashing swagger and truly rampant pace. Stays fresh! Incendiary hardcore, to the goddamn bone.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

Hm, alright. I feel like I've seen the ammo counter go down after taking hits sometimes, but I probably just misread.

Definitely true on Seven Force. I've always been a little disappointed in how easy Sylpheed is to neutralize (and that it basically serves to suck up valuable lancer ammo before the final two forms), but at the same time it's still fairly satisfying to shoot and makes for an alright breather. The issue I ran into before (and that I have several times before, back when I wasn't recording) is that I'd really rather avoid getting a recorded run where I end up farting around during the latter stages of the fight waiting for Lancer to restore. I generally try to avoid having to pick it up in the Medusa fight for the reasons you've stated (way too dangerous) but I may need to to keep the pace up.

I've never actually made use of emptied weapons outside the final boss. I have accidentally switched weapon capsules with it before, but I've never gone out of my way to do so - might be a handy technique.
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Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

Lately I've been thinking video games are pretty cool.

Batman

I never, ever get tired of this game's fantastic use of walljumping. Keeping yourself in the perfect position to attack one of those elevated flamethrower guys (and eventually those claw things in the final level's ascent) is satisfying every time (thanks in part to enemies' collision detection being disabled while they're taking damage - brilliantly implemented in this game). And I don't think it can be overstated just how fantastic of an endboss Joker is; every inch of that fight is beautiful. Probably the best boss on NES, I think.

I don't really get the stage 3 boss though. I only know two strategies for him - spamming boomerangs and turning the fight into a DPS race (not sustainable in a one-life clear unless you have full health going into the fight, of course), or just slowly whittling him down from the upper levels (boring, but the only safe strategy I know of). What's the deal with him? Given how great the rest of the game is, I sort of feel like I'm missing something in that fight - I hope so, anyway.

I really love the lack of guaranteed health drops and lack of a full health refill between stages - really keeps the tension up.

Castlevania: Rondo of Blood

I played this game for the first time a few months ago, and complained a little about the lack of difficulty relative to other Castlevania games (although I still consider the game really great, of course). I still think that's sort of true but I never gave the bosses enough credit - Shaft and his CV1 boss rush (the game's high point for sure), Death, and sometimes Shaft's ghost can be scary. Rondo probably has the best boss lineup out of any of the Castlevanias, though I do wish the bosses on the lower route were as interesting as the ones on the higher route (the serpent is neat, I guess).

I have some desire to get a 1LC of Castlevania X68000, but that game's length combined with some of its vicious death pits (this fucker especially) make it intimidating. Maybe sometime, though.

Having played them both repeatedly back to back, I sort of feel like I might have come to prefer Bloodlines' more nuanced toolset and more reactive enemies to Rondo's tighter stages, actually.

Alien Soldier

It's excellent. Buster Force served me well. I can't believe I played this game for years and almost totally neglected the free-shot aiming mode.

I think Counter Force is kind of genius. Having to double tap to deflect or absorb the bullets rather than just having it mapped to a button may be a tiny bit less precise, but it's incredibly visceral-feeling and satisfying to pull off. Nailing the last boss with his own spiral shots is definitely a highlight. And every time I play, I always have to marvel at the boss Flying-Neo (the weird helicopter thing). Constantly changing up shot modes and weapons based on his position and the direction you're attacking him from, the way the wind basically nullifies your flame weapon when you're facing left, being able to crouch to resist the wind - incredibly rich-feeling encounter, even if he's something of a throwaway boss. I think I'm fairly confident in saying that this is definitely the best console action-platformer of its era (gotta make that distinction just because of Ghouls 'n Ghosts).
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

All gold right there. ^__^ Exemplars of the quality Japan's sidescrolling had marshaled by the late 80s, and into the next decade. The reference-standard walljumper. One of the finest-ever synergies of breezy fun to hard action. And a boss rampage of inimitable braggadocio, craftsmanship and focus. Any of those three will instantly remind me of why I love gaming.

Have you tried Gimmick (FC) and Ninja Cop (GBA) btw? They're my most recent additions to the shortlist the above three occupy. Former recalls Rondo's seamless blend of exploration and do/die action. Enemy AI warrants a specific mention, it's fiendishly reactive. Looks cute, but packs heated skirmishes with armed baddies that'd do the most manful game proud (as I like to call it, Psychic Killer Yumetaromaru). Godly OST from one of the all-time great BGM houses.

Ninja Cop is possibly the apotheosis of grappling hook action. Technical yet instantly engaging game with shades of Shinobi, Bionic Commando and Elevator Action Returns. Developed by Hudson with ex-Konami staff, criminally obscure. The Umihara Kawase games are the gold standard for acrobatic wire technique, but this is for the kill-crazy ninjas. Image

2010 Street Fighter (FC) comes to mind too, though not as an immediate recommend. It's got rough edges for sure, primarily the restrictive-bordering-awkward basic movement. Harsh powerdown upon damage adds to the rough entry barrier. Those caveats given, though, I'll always recommend it as Alien Soldier's 8-bit counterpart. The delivery's not as audaciously flawless, but the absolute commitment to smashing foes in style is unmistakable. Similarly great near-future techno/xeno aesthetic, too. It tends to pop up in nostalgic NES bogeyman talk, likely after attempts to play it like a NG-style twitcher (and typically, ignoring the vital backflip dodge). Once you realise enemies move as methodically as you do, former chaos starts to click, and tactical improv becomes second nature.
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A strategic, volatile and totally unique game that seems to grow on people, myself included. Worth persevering with a little.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Played a bit of Ken-Go last week, on the recommendations above.

The blocking mechanic is interesting, feels a bit too one dimensional though. I like the idea of alternating between rapid slashes and blocking to deal with different types of enemy attacks, coupled with screen clearing wooshes. I don't see a lot of nuance in the enemy placement or patterns you have to dodge though (although the ultra fast zakos are awesome), as block > power shot seems to be the way to go for everything. I wonder if loop 2 is better in this regard.

Aesthetically, it's cool. Especially that brutal intro. Rest of the game is a bit too colorful and bright for its theme though. Makes me wish for the grim and grime of Ninja Spirit.

Also played a few credits of Iwanaga on Halloween and today.

Lovely game. As interesting as the "Alien Soldier with aimed tank shooting and danmaku" basic moving/shooting mechanics are, what I really love is the time/health ammo balancing concept. I love how it feels like you can never truly control the shifting balance of the two, as even with planning and manipulation of your ammo levels, it's always a volatile as all hell balance.

Also the boss theme in the WIP sequel is amazing. Those bells.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

^^ Yeah, actually, I've been playing Gimmick a fair bit over the past week and just got the true ending / 1cc earlier today. That's another game I have to gush over. Amazing production values, brilliant and fiendish levels, and the game's central star-tossing mechanic is fun as hell (I feel like one of the biggest highlights of the game is dunking it into the ground hard so you can bounce it up into the stage 5 boss's first form). And every boss barring the third is pretty excellent too. And I happened to have played Street Fighter 2010 a handful of times this week too. I haven't put much time into it at all, but it's really intriguing - the weird restricted attacks feel really interesting, and I like the movement.

I haven't heard of Ninja Cop before, but from looking it up, it seems like it might be a real hidden gem! I'll check it out sometime for sure.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BrianC »

I started playing the NES Heavy Barrel, but stopped after playing a bit of the version on Wii. It's not bad, but feels a bit rough compared to the arcade. Also, I compared a video of the arcade version on real hardware and the Wii version does seem to play slightly slow. :( MAME actually seems to be running at the correct speed. I like the controls of the Wii version, though.

The funny thing is that the NES version seems harder, despite having less enemies. Probably due to some enemies appearing instantly, less animation frames, and the hit detection (It appeared that I died at least half an inch away from a mine cart one time on stage 3). Music feels cheap for the NES version too. Arcade music definitely stomps all over it, not to mention the chessy voices in the arcade (Aaah-tack!).

I also ordered Midnight Resistance for the Mega Drive along with Puyo Puyo 2 since I heard good things about the music and it sounds like a solid game, as well as the follow up to Heavy Barrel.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by trap15 »

Midnight Resistance MD is super good, but don't start cranking the difficulty until you've beaten it on normal. The higher difficulties mostly just add bullshit instead of making it properly harder :lol:
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