Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[BrianC]

Both Batman games have a nice soundtrack, but the first one is most definitely the one to go for. RoTJ has nice graphics, but is clunky gameplay wise. The first Batman has smaller graphics (which are still very nice), but has much better gameplay.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Thanks for the Castlevania advice - going to have to try out the kneeling trick. I did know about the holy water trick but I'd rather get a solid no-death run without that weapon given how powerful it is.

[BIL]

If there's a richer, more depthful sidescrolling brawling experience than The Ninja Warriors Again, I've not been fortunate enough to encounter it. AS ALWAYS I sit down intending to nail a Kunoichi Hard ALL but decide to revisit Ninja for a bit first, and several hours later there goes my MFN afternoon. 3:

I was never happy with the Ninja ALL I hastily recorded ages back; far too much crouching in corners. It's shameful in fact! Much better to proactively get toe-to-toe and punch motherfuckers in the face, reaping invincible bidirectional knockdowns and freeing up time to obliterate priority targets. Tying the nunchaku's BNB crowd control to two solid haymakers was a minor bit of genius. A bruiser with severely limited mobility is obvious enough; compelling the player to compensate by smashing a mountain of skulls for the skull throne is bravura action game design. An endlessly gratifying feedback loop of pulverising, manhandling, crowd-flooring violence.

Ninja got me wondering about other sidescrollers designed around the absence of a conventional jump. There's Capcom's Top Secret/Bionic Commando trio for AC, FC and GB of course. I'd say Ex-Ranza counts as well - somewhat like Ninja, your mech can fly but not jump, with the attendant complications. Maybe the Lode Runner series, too? Can't recall any others off the top of my head.

Something I meant to post before, about The Super Shinobi's infamous Round 7-1 long jump. It's known to force a resort to jump magic, something I cannot abide by. (・｀ω´・) Mostly bcos other doodz don't use it in their runs. (・ ω ・) I was getting about 90% success rate, which still sucks with it occurring so late in the game! But THEN, I devised secret weapon. ¦3

Spoiler

Keep an eye on the battleship's hawsehole in the background (yes, I had to look up the term!). Notice how it's slightly to the left of the edge, moving to the right as you approach. Jump as soon as it's cleared the edge. You'll still need to perfectly apex the second jump input, but that's a breeze compared to the choking horror of under/overshooting the ledge dropoff.



BLAOW, works every time! For me anyway! Super Shinobi is actually one of those games where you can "recall" a ledge drop by pulling back, though it's too strict to be of much help (unlike in, say, the eminently floaty Ninja Gaiden III).

I wonder how deliberate a signposting this was. Perhaps a little helping hand from the game's no doubt attentive BG designers? -Ninja Sidescrolling Flan X! ^_~

[BrianC]

Ninja got me wondering about other sidescrollers designed around the absence of a conventional jump. There's Capcom's Top Secret/Bionic Commando trio for AC, FC and GB of course. I'd say Ex-Ranza counts as well - somewhat like Ninja, your mech can fly but not jump, with the attendant complications. Maybe the Lode Runner series, too? Can't recall any others off the top of my head.

Bugs Bunny Crazy Castle/Roger Rabbit FDS/Mickey Mouse GB/etc comes to mind.

[BIL]

Roger Rabbit FDS

Haha, holy cow. Had no idea this even existed... Kemco truly were masters of the regional/cross-platform reskin. Just when you think you know the truth!

[Perikles]

Talk about a congenial coincidence! I just uploaded a TNWA Hard clear using Kunoichi. It's by no means perfect, but I hardly doubt that will ever happen (highlight of the run is this aerial super combo; it's so fun to see that despite the fact that it does pitiful damage). Also managed to do it with Ninja, that run is too shabby to show, though. Will give it a few more tries! The great thing about struggling in TNWA, however, is that it creates a lot of tension and adrenaline-driven moments, haha. I love this game so much – probably my favorite 16-bit title.

One thing that surprises me is that most people tend to postulate that Kunoichi is somewhat of a well-rounded standard character while Kamaitachi is the technical one out of the three. I strongly beg to differ. The latter's crouching jab dominates almost every situation in the game. He is able to play a long-range distance game that is simply not an option for Kunoichi, even Ninja has to take a few appropriate measures to make sure this'll work.

Kunoichi on the other hand requires a completely different mindset. She has a pronouncedly short range, her combos are long (thus defying her the abundance of invincibility frame Kamaitachi gets to enjoy) and the damage output of most her attacks is fairly low. Her strongest attack (where she grabs an enemy and unleashes a severe staccato of punches) renders her defenseless, her grab has also not the same reach as Ninja's which means she often times needs to stun an enemy before it is safe to pick them up.

A perfect example to showcase this is the very first boss. He is able to nullify everything that Kunoichi can do. If you walk towards him he'll either punch or grab you. If you try to crouch towards him he'll plant his brobdingnagian boot into your face. If you don't jump from the right distance he'll either block or anti-air. If Kunoichi gets cornered against him and two of his accompanying goons it's most likely game over for her since she has no viable escape options, either.

She also has by far the hardest time at the final boss. Both Kamaitachi and Ninja can hang out in either corner and throw enemies, she has to stand in the middle, being constantly surrounded, and carefully throw enemies up to do some damage (granted, huge foes also damage Banglar when she uses the slide throw, but that is not nearly enough in the long run). Kunoichi is essentially the extra hard mode, while Kamaitachi is a great pick for beginners.

And speaking of him: I'm pondering how to record a somewhat interesting run with Kamaitachi. There's no reason to not constantly use his crouching jab since it allows him to efficiently control the screen. He is extremely fast while crouching, his punches have an excellent reach and they lead into the finisher right away which means that he gets his invincibility stupendously early. You don't have to manipulate enemies like you have to do with Kunoichi and, partially, Ninja (walk up to an enemy, wait for them to attack high and crouch to set up your rencontre; Ninja can do it against the seventh boss who is a nightmare otherwise), you can just crawl around and wreak havoc.

[BIL]

aerial super combo

Emblematic.

Spoiler

I've been experimenting with her advancing somersault (fwd+jump while blocking) - as with Ninja's equivalent tumble, turtlers will lash out at its invincible frames as you land safely, often setting themselves up. Landing four slashes and the full grapple flurry becomes an infernal obsession... I'm a sucker for a good glass cannon dynamic.

One thing that surprises me is that most people tend to postulate that Kunoichi is somewhat of a well-rounded standard character while Kamaitachi is the technical one out of the three. I strongly beg to differ. The latter's crouching jab dominates almost every situation in the game. He is able to play a long-range distance game that is simply not an option for Kunoichi, even Ninja has to take a few appropriate measures to make sure this'll work.

Oh yeah, Kamaitachi is the EZ mode character. Certainly not without value; his unique system wrinkles (sneaky crouch-run, cocky overhead, vicious boot in lieu of grappling) make "trickster" a tempting label, unfortunately overshot by his dominating shutdowns. It's the finely-judged limitations of the remaining two characters that elevate this from good to great, and their sledgehammer/scalpel divergence that earns its desert island clearance.

As with Alien Soldier it's definitely my favourite SFC game, probably. Life's good when you don't have to choose. ¦3

[Squire Grooktook]

TFW people are talking about a game on your backlog that you'd really like to boot up real quickly and give a try, but you can't because the clock is ticking on your trigonometry homework. Think I'll boot Ninja Warriors Again up tomorrow night after the due date, right before I collapse into the sweet release of unconsciousness.

[BIL]

For the love of god don't boot it up until you've got a few hours. A console sequel of Kiki Kaikai calibre, and you know I wouldn't say such a thing lightly. ¦3 Natsume/Taito be like goddamn chocolate and peanut butter on SFC.

Make sure you're playing the JP version, the US unfortunately had to delete the katana girls because BUNZ. The result being less mixups and a whooole lot more chibi Wolverines. The green blood is normal for JP though (US has none at all).

[Perikles]

Got a Ninja Hard clear that contains a trifle of the shameful situations BIL mentioned. I can completely understand you: since the amount of breathtakingly beautiful stuff one can do is well-nigh infinite it feels like a personal insult if one paltry lackey stabs your towering 2.10 meter metal colossus out of the air. Or if you have a perfect set-up that ends abruptly for one goon decides that this is the ideal moment to brandish his riflebutt. Or a particularly pesky security man that got thrown off-screen prepares his jump which you cannot see until it's too late. That's what's so amazing about this game: you never know exactly what is going to happen. Every run will be different thanks to the devious AI. It's a Miltoneske hymn to the ultimate RNG, really.

The run is mostly tolerable, stage 6 is an utter trainwreck, though. I get to show how to manipulate the seventh boss into attacking high which is crucial to beat him somewhat efficiently with Ninja. I just wish there weren't as many of the above-named annoyances that are only minor in technical terms yet scandalously affronting for the player.

[Obiwanshinobi]

The forum could use a thread such as this one specifically about bmups (but there it would be at risk of mutating into "1vs1 fighting games fan mode", i.e. losing the mildly interested part of audience quickly).

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Haven't there been several beat-em-up threads? They didn't start off as general beat-em-up threads, true, but even this thread was originally specifically a Ninja Gaiden thread. I don't see an issue with repurposing one of them.

[Obiwanshinobi]

The most general one I found was of the "post your list of faves" kind. Once everybody had posted theirs, no wonder it sort of disappeared.
I believe this one was NES-centric from the start, NES Ninja Gaiden being more of a signpost.

[BIL]

Actually it was general-purpose sidescrolling action from the get-go. ¦3 I LIEK IT RAW

That's what's so amazing about this game: you never know exactly what is going to happen. Every run will be different thanks to the devious AI. It's a Miltoneske hymn to the ultimate RNG, really.

Word. That's my weekend's gaming booked.

[copy-paster]

After I learning hard to clear "that stage" of Contra Hard Corps US ( BIL's recommendation is work ). I need a rest and got my chance to play Rockman & Forte. I think this is one of my least fave RM games coz there's too many cheap deaths, awful enemy placement, some unavoidable boss attacks, big sprites that even worse than RM7 and terrible level design. Though the pros are this game really pushing SFC to it's limits in term of graphics.

Mindfuck fact : Inafune also intend R&F is for little kids in Japan which is surprising, he think that all kids at that time is truly a maso like him and thus, this game was created.

[blackoak]

That's funny, I thought R&F was easily the best of the Mega Man games in terms of satisfying difficulty. Although I too thought it was the cheapest at first. I really liked that you couldn't rely on energy tanks, and the consistent challenge of the bosses (especially early on).

[BIL]

Found a gamasutra blog post devoted to sidescrolling camera tracking, a topic dear to my heart. If the foundation is shoddy, everything else suffers. (・｀ω´・) Only had time to give a quick skim, but at a glance it seems pretty cool. Small caveat - lots of GIFs. link

To give my hasty 2 cents, I prefer the Dracula/Ryukenden model. Camera locked the fuck onto screen center, tracking the player character without exception. Clean and efficient. It exasperates me when later, generally likable stuff like Aladdin (MD) foul up with sloppy tracking that leaves the player near the FOV's edge. Worst of all is expressly keeping the player at the screen edge, a virtual instant disqualification in my book. I still haven't returned to the first Wai Wai World (FC). For a topdown example, Story of Thor (MD) is perpetually this close to being culled from my shelf, its screen edge riding an absolute eyesore on an otherwise lovable brawling adventure.

Even excellent games like Alien Soldier and Super Shinobi II that tinker with center-locking get mixed results. Their cameras will pan ahead in the direction you're facing, showing more of the incoming playfield. Tradeoff is obviously less rear view, but worse are situations where you want a centered view. Recently had AS's camera freak out on me in the midst of Sunset Sting, as I tried to keep both the sniping boss and his tumbling projectiles in view. Such instances are rare, but jarring enough that I'd sooner go with plain ol' center-locked view given the choice.

TLDR: keep it simple motherfucker! OR BETTER YET: allow the player to toggle camera mode, preferably on the fly or at least via pause menu.

edit: though to be fair to Alien Soldier, its camera focus is clearly meant to reflect the 1v1 boss rush format, with the latter usually occupying a "2P" position across from the player.

[Perikles]

Recorded a decent 1LC of GS Mikami on the SFC – as far as I'm aware Normal is the highest difficulty setting, I couldn't find anything about a hidden hard mode or something along the lines. The first five stages went really well, I slipped a bit on the sixth stage and the last two bosses (particularly Medusa) were pretty awful, but I'm overall satisfied. I had quite a few scrapped recordings were I had either bad luck on some of the random patterns, played even more sloppy than usual or both at the same time.

This is certainly one of Natsume's lesser outings on the system (no comparison to the Kiki Kaikai: Nazo no Kuro Manto, The Ninja Warriors Again, Wild Guns triptych), yet nonetheless an engaging title. Lot of care was put into the details, most of which I didn't show in this run. Some examples: if you hit Meiko Rokudo (the girl sitting in the chair before the fourth boss) one of her shikigamis will get mad and punish you for it. If you let the little pipers during the sixth boss fight stay around for long enough they'll turn you into a small child which is just as bad as the transformations in the Makaimura games. There are some question mark boxes that'll net rather amusing results, e.g. Okinu (the floating ghost girl) might bring along some extra enemies in a few cases.

That's not to say that only connoisseurs of amorevolous marginalia like these will enjoy the game. It is satisfactory as all hell to whack ghastly creatures with what is basically an expandable baton. The fifth auto-scrolling stage suffers from stiff controls (that ain't no Cotton 100%!) but other than that the game moves along just fine. It could've benefited from a more ruthless quantity of enemies and/or more chaotic boss behaviours but I surmise it's safe to say that seasoned action platforming aficionados weren't the target audience for this title. Due to the streamlined, elementary approach to the movements/abilities it's also not as long-lasting as something like Zenki where one can perform all kinds of stunts. I'd still recommend it as a sturdily crafted adventure with more than enough variation in terms of locations and general stage layouts. I'm sure that kids growing up with the manga or anime loved this game. Just too bad we don't get to see Maria, the almighty android.

[Squire Grooktook]

Gave The Ninja Warriors Again a few tries over this past week.

Gotta say, Ninja is right alongside The Predator from Capcom's AVP as one of the most fun and unique beat em up characters out there.

By the way, what advantage is there to poking people high instead of with a crouching punch? Seems like crouched counter attacks are a big worry in more hectic situations.

[wiNteR]

For GS Mikami, try to do a no damage run for all the bosses (similar to boss rush) in one go (not possible on real hardware though).

Also, try doing it without upgraded weapon and/or spells. It's a short and fun challenge. I haven't completed it myself but I have cleared all the bosses individually in this manner. You can't desolate some of the bosses with the normal weapon like you did in video(like stage-3 boss). Also, some are more difficult because you have to time your hits better(stage-5 boss as an example).

Solid full run though. Very aggressive play-style on bosses. You managed to destroy the stage-6 boss with normal weapon. I remember playing very conservatively on that one.

[BIL]

Great writeup, Perikles! Makes me want to revisit SFC Mikami... I was enjoying the customarily flawless Natsume handling and immense personality (even not knowing the license), but decided to back burner it in favour of Dragon Fighter/Kage/Solbrain. Wonder if I might view it differently, now that I'm pretty much sorted for granite-jawed sidescrolling hardcore. It's certainly a more interesting sidescroller than their uncharacteristically bland Choujin Sentai Jetman (FC).

Will enjoy that replay once I've torn myself away from TNWA. ;3

Gotta say, Ninja is right alongside The Predator from Capcom's AVP as one of the most fun and unique beat em up characters out there.

Hell yes. One of the best action gaming avatars ever. The concept of a jet-propelled titan is nailed with total aesthetic/mechanical synergy, far beyond "slow+strong" convention. Explosive speed means battling one's own momentum - moves launch, connect and even whiff with a velocity hazardous to player and enemies alike. Even his footsteps reverberate with deadly mass.

Speaking of (clomp, clomp, clomp)... funny how he's, by profound distance, the least "Ninja" of the cast, seizing throats and shattering spines over his knee with sheer overwhelming force. I might've given the title to Kunoichi and dubbed him BENKEI-BOT 9000, the ultimate cudgeling, crushing machine.

Incidentally, Kunoichi has the single strongest attack of the two characters (full grapple flurry), but in practice Ninja can bust out three comparably strong and totally invincible atomic drops for every one of hers, and that's assuming she's not interrupted. This game is so good, caveats and complications everywhere.

By the way, what advantage is there to poking people high instead of with a crouching punch? Seems like crouched counter attacks are a big worry in more hectic situations.

Crouching punch is a very tempting refuge, particularly with Ninja's size and limited maneuverability. I've been trying to play more aggressively in general, and AFAIK the main advantage of standing punch is instant nunchaku (instant, invincible bidirectional knockdown with no recovery time - invaluable crowd controller). The delay between going from crouched to standing is small, but it's there and deadly in a pinch. Nunchaku's an excellent way to ward off incipient pincers - even if the target blocks, they'll be neutralised, and anyone at your back will be floored. Ideally you'll deck the lot, and gain valuable time to close in and grapple.

Worth noting that super combo enders (rocket punch, in Ninja's case) are instantly-executable from a crouching attack, despite technically requiring you to be standing. You want to hit up+desired direction while the penultimate hit is connecting. I like to buffer [attack] like crazy, for good measure. The timing's stricter than with regular combo enders, which you can easily delay executing while getting into the right position (ie, two punches, turn, then [down + attack] for Ninja's high side kick).

[BrianC]

I thinking of picking Mikami up eventually. Last Natsume game I purchased was Omega Force and I'm enjoying it so far. Too bad they do mostly contract work now.

I just recently received a NES to Famicom adapter to play games on my AV Famicom so I can put my NES in a separate room. Despite it not liking some games like Gauntlet and CVIII (which I heard is an easy thing to fix) and the issues with accessories using different input lines (meaning I have to buy JP accessories or make an adapter to play certain games. I also don't know if anything can be done about US Arkanoid since doesn't even notice the JP Arkanoid II controller, which works fine with Arkanoid II), I'm enjoying it quite a bit.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Mapping auto-fire onto right bottom trigger (with the NES Super Turrican in mind) gave a number of games discussed on here some sick feel, particulary the aforementioned Super Turrican and Batman. Machinegun punch!

[Ghegs]

(with the NES Super Turrican in mind)

Some time ago I actually had a custom FC cart made with the Super Turrican Plus hack. It's quite awesome.

[Strider77]

I want that ^^^

[Nug]

(with the NES Super Turrican in mind)

Some time ago I actually had a custom FC cart made with the Super Turrican Plus hack. It's quite awesome.

This runs on a standard famicom!?!? That's amazing!

[BIL]

That is indeed sexy as fuck.

[soprano1]

Gave that Super Turrican patch a go on Nestopia, it runs really fast. Chris Huelsbeck didn't do the music for this version, right?

[BrianC]

Gave that Super Turrican patch a go on Nestopia, it runs really fast. Chris Huelsbeck didn't do the music for this version, right?

If I remember correctly, Manfred Trenz did the music himself.

[soprano1]

Gave that Super Turrican patch a go on Nestopia, it runs really fast. Chris Huelsbeck didn't do the music for this version, right?

If I remember correctly, Manfred Trenz did the music himself.

I see, thanks.