Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Air Master Burst]

I was thinking: how many (arcade) titles mix the "belt scroller fighting plane" with run'n gun long-range mechanics? I'd add the two Shock Troopers to the mix.

Dynasty Wars and some parts of Punisher, AVP, and Cadillacs & Dinosaurs all kind of fit here.

I've only just started Mayhem Brawler and it's a distant cousin; the first level alone has almost a dozen dudes with guns, including a couple with machine guns. Unfortunately you only get 3 shots from any you pick up, and you can't even throw the empty gun at them when you run out.

[Sumez]

I'm still shocked that Super Shinobi II was done by former DECO and TAD staff, some of which also worked on the MD Juju Densetsu.

MD Toki is surprisingly great, really feels like a worthy sequel to the arcade game IMO, massively expanding what that game did.

[Sumez]

Oh shit. Welcome to page 400 of the best thread on the internet!

[Squire Grooktook]

Oh yeah should post my overall game plan for super robot action platformer monogatari

anyway what I was thinking for this arcadey mech brawler...

Mix of beat-em up style brawling and light platforming segments and a few shmup minigames.

Have a darius style map of stages. The difference between stages on the map is minimal, mostly being palette swaps aesthetically, but they'd have different ratio's of brawling to platforming to shmupping

https://media.discordapp.net/attachment ... nknown.png

so maybe upper path is pure single plane brawling and beat-em-up gameplay, and lower stages have more of an emphasis on platforming and shmupping
In addition, you unlock a new special move / gun / whatever each stage you clear and can choose to start the game with weapons you've already unlocked. So there's an unlockable/replay incentive to clear all the routes/stages
(also have a different cute stage clear cg of the heroine on each stage clear screen that's added to the gallery)

Also toying with maybe trying to add Wild Guns / Cabal style shooting minigame segments as well. Feel like it wouldn't require too many assets (just "slghtly smaller and facing the screen" enemies with maybe 2 animations each) and would be a cheap/fast way to add some extra variety and content.

One of the main goals is "how much content can I create for minimal asset/animation/dev-time that appeals to normies who want lots of STUFF but also can be played as a straight forward arcadey gauntlet".

But this is all tentative so we'll see how it goes.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Query:

I was playing the extremely awesome Ninja Combat (Alpha Denshi, 1990: early Neo Geo title) and trying a few rounds of Bucky O'Hare, too (Konami, 1992).

I was also thinking that Konami's Aliens (1990) follows a similar approach, though it is lacking "punches in the mouth" attacks (Xenomorphs are tough - only the Yautja and Schafer can punch them without consequences) and jumps.
The absolutely whimsical Ninja Kids also mixes approaches/genres/styles: one character (Sasuke? The red ninja) shoots shurikens, the others slash enemies.

I was thinking: how many (arcade) titles mix the "belt scroller fighting plane" with run'n gun long-range mechanics? I'd add the two Shock Troopers to the mix.

Ninja Combat is severely overlooked, as is Ninja Commando.

I asked a friend as you got me interested in the matter: Likely Konami's Manhattan 24/Jail Break is the most evident precursor of the full belt+STG approach, though he mentions older stuff like Sega's Ninja Princess has areas like this. He actually thinks that it's not really what Ninja Combat or Bucky O'Hare (or the beloved Narc) tried to do though, as these just have one direction to shoot (therefore the sprites only face two sides) and there's conveyor belt dynamics (the scroll stops until a group of enemies are over), while the others are actually Commando-likes which simply avoid vertical scrolling/stage expansion, so there's more aiming and evasion involved here which make them feel and play differently. He mentions as another example of this Dynamite Düx, tired of seeing it categorized as a brawler whereas the core mechanics is clearly that of Commando/Jail Break, with something like the jump being totally superfluous.

[Randorama]

Bassa-Bassa, thanks a lot. Please thank your friend, too!

The two Alpha Denshi games have one core problem: your characters may have an energy bar, but multiple hits and insta-kills are a constant risk.
Still, interesting game systems and probably fun games once a player can handle the sudden deaths (I guess).

Air Master Burst: Dynasty Wars is really a unique game, I guess. I cannot think of any other games that play remotely like it...which is a shame, as I would have liked to have a few more titles in the same vein, or at least with similar mechanics.

More in general, these days I am thinking there was a lot of overlapping/blending among "scrolling action" genres, in the late '80s/early '90s era. Some genres (shmups, beat'em ups and then fighters, platforms) could be said to have developed more defined distinguishing mechanics early own, but "action" games remained an happily flexible bunch. I suspect that it would be really fun to devise a genre ontology/network, as many of these games (say, Bucky O'Hare) act as clear-cut cases of genre/sub-genre blending (e.g., beat'em ups+run'n gun=win?).

Anyway, happy 400 pages to their thread, then! (BIL, please add a beer on my tab, for when we shall meet again ).

EDIT:

...speaking of which: Games similar to Konami's Devil World?

[Air Master Burst]

Likely Konami's Manhattan 24/Jail Break is the most evident precursor of the full belt+STG approach, though he mentions older stuff like Sega's Ninja Princess has areas like this.

In that case I'd look at Taito's Dead Connection in the same light.

ETA:

...speaking of which: Games similar to Konami's Devil World?

Isn't this basically just a laid-back Gauntlet clone? You could try the Dark Seal games, although those are more hack and slash than shooting.

[Squire Grooktook]

Attempt at a "footsies" capable AI

Still rough. Basic idea is he tries to stay on the very edge of your attack range while jittering back and forth to try and bait or distract you, then randomly goes for the poke. Was trying to see if I could create an enemy who is legitimately tense to approach with just one move.

Oh yeah is it okay for me to keep posting shit like this here? I was thinking of moving to my own thread or something if it's preferred to keep discussion centered on existing rather than "to exist" games, heh.

[Air Master Burst]

I forgot Aliens is totally a belt-scrolling shooter. The princess in Arabian Magic has a ranged basic attack, too.

[it290]

Bloody Wolf has a fair bit of the horizontal belt plane style. SNK's POW too, although the shooting is obviously less emphasized in that one.

[BurlyHeart]

Man, Shock Troopers is so good. Proper action cheese done right. It seems so simple in design but the game is very fun. My wife has put it above Metal Slug as her second favorite game to watch (only behind Fight'N Rage.)

Did a play through of all the routes. Mountain seems the easiest though it could be because it was the last route I tried and had improved a bit. Myself and the missus got all excited at the sight of our character on a snowmobile, but alas, it was just a cut scene and not playable. I wonder if it was planned but cut for whatever reason.

As for characters, the big lady sure does pack a punch! Also like the Rambo tribute, but currently undecided on a third member. Now to scour this behemoth of a thread for some pertinent information...

[Steven]

Yeah, Shock Troopers is amazing. Don't forget to go in the DIP switches let yourself make a team of all 8 characters if you want.

There are 2 revisions of the game, one in which all of your characters share HP and where the map shows how fast your characters will move on that stage, and one where the characters all have separate HP but you don't get to see their speed on the map. Each character has stages where they will move quickly and maps where they will move slowly, so you should account for this when choosing your team/route. The second revision is the one on ACA and I generally prefer this version. Most other people probably do as well. Maybe there are other changes, but I don't know of any.

[BurlyHeart]

Yeah, Shock Troopers is amazing. Don't forget to go in the DIP switches let yourself make a team of all 8 characters if you want.

There are 2 revisions of the game, one in which all of your characters share HP and where the map shows how fast your characters will move on that stage, and one where the characters all have separate HP but you don't get to see their speed on the map. Each character has stages where they will move quickly and maps where they will move slowly, so you should account for this when choosing your team/route. The second revision is the one on ACA and I generally prefer this version. Most other people probably do as well. Maybe there are other changes, but I don't know of any.

I had no idea about the DIP switch setting. That sounds like a lot of fun, and a great way to learn all the characters. Great information, thank you.

I had read about the different revisions of the game, but have only played the ACA version. The three life system does sound more enjoyable.

[BIL]

All About Shock Troopers, by resident master LordBBH. It's ancient, but should be a great primer - BBH is the man. IIRC he still holds the Western (possibly world?) record. His Youtube channel has tons of expert scoring and speed runs of the game, too, fully-commentated.

I think I'll index this post, as it's - by proxy - the thread's most concentrated source of Shock Troopers data by far.

Oh shit. Welcome to page 400 of the best thread on the internet!

Anyway, happy 400 pages to their thread, then! (BIL, please add a beer on my tab, for when we shall meet again ).

Here's to another 400, and thank you all for your playing!

Oh yeah is it okay for me to keep posting shit like this here?

Absolutely! This is a thread for Hard Scrolling Action past, present and future. It's all the same to me tbh, a great big papyrus scrolling into eternity / page 800. Sorry I've not commented much, will have to sort that out!

[Randorama]

Thanks everyone, and I wanted to mention: Sega's Alien syndrome is one of those games that I simply overlooked for decades on end. Any good?

[mycophobia]

alien syndrome owns

[Bassa-Bassa]

Bassa-Bassa, thanks a lot. Please thank your friend, too!

The two Alpha Denshi games have one core problem: your characters may have an energy bar, but multiple hits and insta-kills are a constant risk.
Still, interesting game systems and probably fun games once a player can handle the sudden deaths (I guess).

Air Master Burst: Dynasty Wars is really a unique game, I guess. I cannot think of any other games that play remotely like it...which is a shame, as I would have liked to have a few more titles in the same vein, or at least with similar mechanics.

More in general, these days I am thinking there was a lot of overlapping/blending among "scrolling action" genres, in the late '80s/early '90s era. Some genres (shmups, beat'em ups and then fighters, platforms) could be said to have developed more defined distinguishing mechanics early own, but "action" games remained an happily flexible bunch. I suspect that it would be really fun to devise a genre ontology/network, as many of these games (say, Bucky O'Hare) act as clear-cut cases of genre/sub-genre blending (e.g., beat'em ups+run'n gun=win?).

Anyway, happy 400 pages to their thread, then! (BIL, please add a beer on my tab, for when we shall meet again ).

EDIT:

...speaking of which: Games similar to Konami's Devil World?

No problem. Ninja Commando is actually on the easy side as the magic techniques are exploitable to some not-too-fun extent. And I remember N. Combat not too hard (as in getting far enough in little time) with a good usage of the special jump technique.

I second Alien Syndrome as a great sample similar to Devil World/Gauntlet. Good mazes and incredible atmosphere there. But if you're after an odd one, Konami's Koi no Hot Rock/Rock'n'Rage is kind of the same idea without shooting.

[BEAMLORD]

re: the 400 page milestone of this thread.

Best thread on the Internet. I'm in the process of reading it front to back when I get a minute, currently on page 120. It's got it all - drama, comedy, farce, and still leaves a little room for hard-nosed yet brotherly advice, analysis and appreciation for the hard scrolling actionz. Many thanks to the many contributors to this thread, but especially to Edmond the Mad.

[BIL]

It's truly Edmond's thread, we're just keeping the place nice and tidy for him.

dancing gamely round
anger's blazing throne! leal moths
await their old liege

[bottino]

I second Alien Syndrome as a great sample similar to Devil World/Gauntlet. Good mazes and incredible atmosphere there.

THE TIME BOMB IS SET.

Yeah, it's a great 'pressure' game with a good balance and crazy-ass boss designs.

[BIL]

I always have to give special mention to Sunsoft's pixel art in their FC version, specifically the final boss KING CORE who... well, he'd have made a fine avatar for Edmond back in the day. Absolute primal rage.

[BEAMLORD]

dancing gamely round
anger's blazing throne! leal moths
await their old liege

So reads the stone tablet. I have faith. The King only sleeps.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

So reads the stone tablet.

Legend has it that his My Little Pony fanfiction is carved on one.

[BurlyHeart]

All About Shock Troopers, by resident master LordBBH. It's ancient, but should be a great primer - BBH is the man.

Whoa - that's an amazing write up! Tons of useful information, and BONUS points for the nostalgic feels I got while browsing the website. They do not make websites like that anymore. Thank you for sharing.

IIRC he still holds the Western (possibly world?) record. His Youtube channel has tons of expert scoring and speed runs of the game, too, fully-commentated.

I watched BBH's WR run and it was very helpful too, though I'm not sure I would have to patience to play for score like that. I want to run and blow things up

[it290]

I've been going down a bit of a Famicom Disk System hole recently after having acquired a Twin Famicom and Konami's Arumana no Kiseki has captured my interest. Not sure to what extent it's been discussed in the thread previously, but it's basically Konami's unofficial Indiana Jones game mixed with pseudo Bionic Commando elements. More a puzzle platformer in many respects than a true actioner, but the production value is there and the game is pretty interesting and fun. Blimey if the hook mechanics aren't a total bitch, though... there are many sections where it's incredibly fiddly to get to where you need to go which makes the traversal kind of a pain. I feel like I need to grasp the mechanics a bit more before I can truly rate it, but an interesting game in any case.

[BIL]

Some interesting commonalities with Konami's earlier Roc n' Rope, too. I've never played it myself, but I do love its soundtrack, by OG Castlevania composer Kinuyo Yamashita! (her best work is Power Blade imo - classic oldschool KoNatsume feelgood)

All About Shock Troopers, by resident master LordBBH. It's ancient, but should be a great primer - BBH is the man.

Whoa - that's an amazing write up! Tons of useful information, and BONUS points for the nostalgic feels I got while browsing the website. They do not make websites like that anymore. Thank you for sharing.

I know right! Amazing oldschool hyperlink feels

I watched BBH's WR run and it was very helpful too, though I'm not sure I would have to patience to play for score like that. I want to run and blow things up

Ha, same - I regard ST's scoreplay the way I do Metal Slug's; it's undeniably substantial stuff, with a lethal performance ceiling, but it's too much of a departure for me to get into it hardcore. Ultimately I'm happiest just basking in the blast waves. Happily though, just like ferretting out Slug's hidden POWs, there's still excellent reason to pull off those prestige kills - tons more powerup and HP drops (at considerable risk, naturally ).

[Sumez]

Arumana no Kiseki is a lot of fun IMO, definitely one of the must-have FDS titles.
That said, the zipline mechanic is incredibly wonky, so you really need to get used to how it works - I consider it borderline kuso, but last time I said that, Trap15 wouldn't have it, so I guess you'll be the judge of it

[WelshMegalodon]

It's not quite as impressive as a 1% Fusion run, but Sumez and co. inspired me to try a “moderately low%” run of the original Metroid. In addition to four missile expansions and four energy tanks, I collected the Morph Ball, Bombs, the Ice Beam, and nothing else.



The game was clearly designed to be beatable this way, so I guess this kind of run isn't anything special, but it was still fun. I'm not sure how much time I actually saved by skipping the Varia and the Screw Attack since I had to farm some health and Missiles in Tourian, but my final time was still well under an hour.

[Randorama]

+1 for Alien Syndrome. I am happy to discover this beauty after 35 years of neglect.
The same goes for Rock'n Rage. Rough along the edges? Maybe so, but for its year (1986!) it was probably fine.

Thanks guys.

Not sure if it goes here but...

I was looking for a game similar to Crazy Climber, though the view should be isometric. Am I hallucinating arcade titles, by chance?

[Rastan78]

I was looking for a game similar to Crazy Climber, though the view should be isometric. Am I hallucinating arcade titles, by chance?

Fire Trap?

https://youtu.be/P-WsL0KcCYY