I've been to hell and back, and other Makaimura Miscellanies

[BIL]

Oh ok.

edit: ugh, either I'm doing something wrong or Nestopia 140's movie recording is fucked. -_- Doesn't seem to like Tecmo games. Desyncs a few seconds into 1-1 every time. Will have a few more goes before returning to awaiting the day I have a hardware capture setup.

Well, there's always good ol' SDA when you need a game's engine dismantled on video.

[Edmond Dantes]

According to this interview on HG101, apparently the reason Ninja Gaiden 1's final boss has such a fuckdiculous restart point is due to a programming oversight that they decided to just keep in.

Damn you, Tecmo. Just damn you.

... That said, I haven't given up. Not until the day I lose my cool and take a hammer to the cartridge.

[BIL]

And then they kept it in for both remaining games of the trilogy! LOLOL

Mr. Yoshizawa directed the action part for the first game, but that was actually something a programmer had implemented this way accidentally. However, it wasn't tried to fix it. They were like "hey, that's not bad, either". *laughs

YEAHHHHHH

Nicely done Masato-san, but I would've made it so you didn't get any life refills during the boss rush either*! Suffering in training is the only way these young scrubs will attain skill! (・｀ω´・)

Struggle is the spark of life, no? 2002 SEGA
NOBODY EVER SAID IT WOULD BE EASY... 1988 TAITO
THIS BATTLE WILL MAKE YOUR BLOOD BOIL. 1987 KONAMI
"TOUGH TO BEAT!" 1991 TECMO

*I would've had you keep your subweapon for Jaquio and the Demon instead, to introduce some continuity between performance in 6-3 and the rush.

[Edmond Dantes]

Well BIL (and whoever else is interested), I filled up the DVD-R I was recording with, finalized it, and then ripped it with Handbrake. So now I'll be uploading my attempt at Ninja Gaiden act-by-act onto Youtube.

The first three acts are up (Unlisted at the moment, but you can access them through the below links). Commentary in the bit below the video.

Act 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEZORaSRmAE

Act 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OemdlhqWyIM

Act 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr60gmYb1RI

Acts four thru six will be posted later tonight. Those are where I start having major problems.

[BIL]

Cool, I'm (slowly) encoding and uploading the raw AVI file of the no-miss run I recorded this evening. I'll get the emulator .inp file uploaded too. Youtube may follow later if it's cooperative, but I never have much luck with that shit.

WARNING: a new topic "NINJA GAIDEN [NES] DISCUSSION" IS APPROACHING FAS- oh it's already here.

edit: WHOA, I'd assumed Acts I-III were locked down! Edmond you're playing terribly, bad timing and missed hits everywhere. You cleaved the thin air above that machete dude's head clean apart in 2-2. You had better not be DrTrouserPlank's alternate account. :/ I can only imagine what horror awaits in Acts IV-VI! Seriously, I wouldn't like this game like I do if it let you get away with the mistakes you seem to think aren't that big a deal. Not getting smacked for that stuff would be unacceptable. What do you think this is, TIME COP for the SUPER NINTENDO?!

Just work on your timing and general accuracy and the stuff you've highlighted in those vids won't happen. I get hit quite a few times in the safer areas of my run (part 1 going up now), know why? BECAUSE I DIDN'T GIVE A SHIT :O Any time getting hit means death, I don't get hit.

Bomberhead can indeed be killed without taking damage, just get in range, let him whiff his attack, slash him repeatedly and back up. Repeat a couple times.

[Marc]

Well shit, all these years and I didn't know about that trick with the tombstones! Thanks man.

[Ed Oscuro]

Speaking of playing terribly, I went ahead and spent a little more time with Ultimate early this morning. I got up to the grass (?) ride in the castle, but I was just exploring - lost a ton of lives there. The few lives I lost blasting through a few areas up to that point left me with "only" 9 at the moment (yep, I cheaped out and started at Novice). All the stuff hovering over pits is gonna be nuts to grab. I've found three warp staffs already, though. I really like the non-linear design of many stages.

The one thing that drives me nuts about this game is its interia / physics handling (similar to SkyKid's lack of enthusiasm for the double jump in Super / Cho), but it's traditional. Walked off a ledge? You go straight down. At least you get a free air jump like Getsu Fuma Den. On the other hand it's really cool to jump out into space and land on a treasure chest floating in space (although getting the contents of those will be, uhhh, not easy).

I'm glad I forged ahead and got through the second area finally (taking care not to die more than once...not great playing, but it's at serviceable. I would've no-hit the Demon Gate boss but got sick of restarting, so I just squeaked through having lost my armor). Some of these places are really amazing. That ride through the castle on the ghostly magic carpet (?) is one of the most awesome things I've seen and heard in a game yet.

I'm really glad I ditched the homing weapon too.

[Skykid]

The one thing that drives me nuts about this game is its interia / physics handling (similar to SkyKid's lack of enthusiasm for the double jump in Super / Cho).

Actually I quite like the double jump implementation, it makes the game to some degree.

You know what, I understand your apathy toward the double jump, since it's so belligerent in its lack of dynamics. But, after playing it through I conceded that it does bring a certain something to the game, and capcom did engineer a lot of stage design around its precise execution. It wouldn't be the same without it, so I learned to have an affection toward that particular mechanic.

[Edmond Dantes]

The one thing that drives me nuts about this game is its interia / physics handling (similar to SkyKid's lack of enthusiasm for the double jump in Super / Cho), but it's traditional. Walked off a ledge? You go straight down. At least you get a free air jump like Getsu Fuma Den. On the other hand it's really cool to jump out into space and land on a treasure chest floating in space (although getting the contents of those will be, uhhh, not easy).

Probably better than Daimakaimura's part with all the tongue statues, where those chests can actually become *obstacles*.

(Daimakaimura? It should've been called Die Makaimura)

[boagman]

Some of these places are really amazing. That ride through the castle on the ghostly magic carpet (?) is one of the most awesome things I've seen and heard in a game yet.

This area was one of the key reason why I sought out the soundtrack back when it was available. In-stinking-credible music in this area, and many more. Couldn't pony up the ultrabucks for the soundtrack, but when P/A put it on sale for under $20, that CD bad boy was *mine*. I'll listen to it in the car, happy as a clam.

[boagman]

After spending a couple of days with Ultimate, I've come to really love/hate it. I generally love games that encourage you to go back and find secrets in previously cleared areas, but GnG difficulty is hugely discouraging when trying to do so. I spent about an hour last night trying [failing] to get a ring that requires special armor which can only be found in a couple of stages (none of the ones you need it in) and takes one hit to lose. Progress felt great when I was making it, though.

This is a more-than-fair criticism of Ultimate. While I love the game, the whole "You can't get this without getting X, Y, and Z *first*, but we're not going to tell you that...nor are we going to make it necessarily logical to *obtain* X, Y, and Z!" thing gets massively old, and too quickly.

I would venture to say that the game goes out of its way to be too complex for its own good, almost borrowing elements from not-necessarily-compatible games in order to make the game more elaborate, which to be frank, isn't what a GnG game should be, to me.

Case in point would be the first flying armor you're provided, which only lasts for I think seven seconds or so at a time. SO MANY LIVES ARE LOST trying to even just *figure out* if you can reach certain objects, places, rings, whatever...using that very limited amount of time. It's like they're trying to RPG the game, and the GnG series has categorically NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING RPG.

I appreciate that Goku Makaimura Kai addresses this to a decent degree. No regrets that I bought it.

[Ex_Mosquito]

I defiantly think the Snes version is the hardest in the series, with Daimakaimura being the easiest. I think Daimakaimura is overratedly hard tbh. It seems like it ones of those games come up alot in top ten hardest games, along with Nes Contra :/ if you think about it the game is only 15 minutes long, and the loop is the exact same difficulty.. Sure the games randomness makes it a bit tricky sometimes but it's a pretty short game when you look at it.

My replay of Daimakaimura on my cab. I lost 1-life on the last boss,.I couldn't bloody believe it! He's the easiest boss in the whole game ;/

Part 1 http://youtu.be/IYtMIwFnDcM
Part 2 http://youtu.be/ipUXMaLrbXU

[Edmond Dantes]

Wait, there are people who say the NES Contra is hard?

[BIL]

Hey, this is kinda neat. Was watching the Capcom Game Syndrome LD Arasoi very kindly uploaded to his channel, and the Daimakaimura run's intro has some nice arrangements of the game's music in the background. Plus humourously stoical narration, ofc.

[Bloodreign]

I'm grateful for Goku Makaimura Kai myself, love the original revision, hated the fetch quest. This one plays more traditionally, but I'll be damned if I don't stink horribly at it, and there's no unlimited credits this time to carry me through.

[Austin]

Wait, there are people who say the NES Contra is hard?

It's hard to believe, but yes. Lots of people over at NintendoAge too, surprisingly.

I myself, I don't get it. Shit, I think I no-deathed that game when I was like, 8 years old.

[mikehaggar]

Just last week, I cleared Daimakaimura on my arcade cab without dying!!

Wasn't too bad of a game. I got a 1cc after owning it for a month (and it was just with one death), but a 1LC is BRUTAL because of the randomness of the game. It took me 2 and a half more months after the one death run to get the 1LC. There are literally dozens of parts of the game where the game will kill you instantly if your luck is bad. I had a 1 or 2 death run several times before I was able to clear it without deaths.

Superplay forthcoming....Just have to process the video.

Also, Daimakaimura is WAY harder than the US version Ghouls n'Ghosts. I saw plays of the US version and it's laughable in comparison. Multiple checkpoints per stage, and there is a replacement armor every 2 chests in the US version!

[Mortificator]

Wow, congratulations! It's interesting that the Japanese version would be harder this time. I think it was the other way around for the first game.

[Ex_Mosquito]

Nice work Mike

It's pretty random ain't it. Even learning the game doesn't gaurenteed a 1cc. On my replay I managed to 1-life it up until the last boss and the stress got to me and I lost 1-life because I didn't line myself up slightly off centre to dodge the lasers. I was soooo pissed off! (I even swore in the replay) he's the easiest boss on the game for me as well....

Yeah, Daimakaimura is the only version to play.

[boagman]

Just last week, I cleared Daimakaimura on my arcade cab without dying!!

Wasn't too bad of a game. I got a 1cc after owning it for a month (and it was just with one death), but a 1LC is BRUTAL because of the randomness of the game. It took me 2 and a half more months after the one death run to get the 1LC. There are literally dozens of parts of the game where the game will kill you instantly if your luck is bad. I had a 1 or 2 death run several times before I was able to clear it without deaths.

Superplay forthcoming....Just have to process the video.

Also, Daimakaumra is WAY harder than the US version Ghouls n'Ghosts. I saw plays of the US version and it's laughable in comparison. Multiple checkpoints per stage, and there is a replacement armor every 2 chests in the US version!

Very interesting. First, let me congratulate you on your accomplishment...I know that I've 1CCed the Genesis/Mega Drive version, but I don't recall having the opportunity to play the PCB version (either US or Japanese) to any real degree. It's quite the accomplishment, that. I know how proud I was when I 1LCed NAM 1975 on the Neo-Geo.

Second, I never knew that there were differences in the two versions, especially not differences that are so vast in terms of gameplay. Can you offer up a couple of examples of the "randomness" you speak of? I'm not doubting you at all...just want some specifics to sort of work through in my head.

Thanks, and congrats again!

[mikehaggar]

Nice work Mike

It's pretty random ain't it. Even learning the game doesn't gaurenteed a 1cc. On my replay I managed to 1-life it up until the last boss and the stress got to me and I lost 1-life because I didn't line myself up slightly off centre to dodge the lasers. I was soooo pissed off! (I even swore in the replay) he's the easiest boss on the game for me as well....

Yeah, Daimakaimura is the only version to play.

Yo! Good to see you on this forum! I'm the guy that messaged you on youtube regarding daimakaimura and final fight. I told you I was going to attempt this....now I've succeeded!
And yes, I had the exact same thing happen to me.....got a death on Lucifer. And he had one hit to go....aaaargh!!

I would have kept playing if I were you until I got the 1LC!

[mikehaggar]

Can you offer up a couple of examples of the "randomness" you speak of? I'm not doubting you at all...just want some specifics to sort of work through in my head.

Thanks, and congrats again!

I'm going to post my run soon on youtube and I think I'm going to be on STGweekly as a guest to comment on it (yeah, a nonshmup game.....can it be???

If you play well and understand the chest system perfectly, you can survive most of the below with smart play. However, the fact that there's so many random killer parts means that it any given run, something WILL usually kill you, unless you get lucky. (i.e. play it for a few months)

And, to top it all off, you have to do it TWICE.

Off the top of my head, below are the parts that require some luck: (I can maybe do each part 9 out of 10 times without taking a hit). It's a crapshoot fellas.

2.1: the bouncing turtles are random and can fuck you if there is an undodgeable pattern
2.2: red areemer can be challenging if you have your lance and no gold armor (i.e. took a hit in part 1 above)
2.2: The game pukes tons of fire at you.
3.1: The hundreds of flying goblins can all attack you at once.
3.1: The game can force a shitty item pickup here.
3.2: There are multiple parts on the tongues where you are forced to kill enemies, and if you drop a shitty item, you must get it due to how constricted the level is here.
*3.2:The game seems to be completely random as to how many mosquitos there are. There are a few parts during falling on tongues that if a ton of mosquitos appear and are just offcenter, they can intersect your fall and there is not a goddamn thing you can do other than take the hit and curse your mother after you plunge to your death.
4.1: Snakes coming from the walls move and shoot erratically, though you can control them most of the time. Right before the first checkpoint where you deal with 3 things shooting at you at once from both sides. Very challenging and can fuck you sometimes.
4.2: There is a part where you have to go diagonally down and kill a hand, while spikes are above you. At this point, sometimes there are a lot of the groundcrawlers, and you can't kill them because there are spikes above you. Skill can usually pass this part, but trust me, sometimes it is impossible.
*4.2: Boss Worst boss in the game. It is completely random. The strats in the superplay of hugging the corners are great, however, you still have to deal with the middle and also 10% of the time the snakes appear right at the corners or come at you and just knock you off and your run dies.
5.1: 4 areemers in a row. not horrible, but if you have a shitty weapon at this part, consider yourself toast.
5.2: The two shielders. For sure the worst part of the entire game. They move and shoot randomly. Just shoot like mad, and prey. There is no for sure strategy, but if you just bumrush the right one immediately, you can make it through most (though not all) of the time.
5.2: The three eye clouds. Most of the time they just circle you and die, but sometimes they just charge you from underneath or something equally terrible.
5.2: The very last ladderclimb and staircase. Random weapon drops can (and have!) screwed me and it's right before the boss (and TLB if you are on loop 2). They can even charge you while you go up the ladder though this is more rare and can usually be prevented.
5.3: Lucifer. I think this boss sucks and is random. Sometimes your hits don't connect (even though you're right next to him) and he shoots lasers erratically which create holes in the ground SOMETIMES. I hate this boss because he can kill a run (see me and mosquitos post above) at the drop of a dime. But there's no real strategy. Just hit him 6 times and he dies.

[BIL]

I'm going to post my run soon on youtube and I think I'm going to be on STGweekly as a guest to comment on it (yeah, a nonshmup game.....can it be???

Coolness! It'd be nice to see the series branch out into other coin-op staples occasionally.

[Ex_Mosquito]

Yo! Good to see you on this forum! I'm the guy that messaged you on youtube regarding daimakaimura and final fight. I told you I was going to attempt this....now I've succeeded!
And yes, I had the exact same thing happen to me.....got a death on Lucifer. And he had one hit to go....aaaargh!!

I would have kept playing if I were you until I got the 1LC!

Ah that's you is it!? your youtube name is a little different I've 1LC'D it since but I never recorded it. It's a pain in the arse for me to set-up for a recording without a lot of planning first ;/

[Tyranix95]

I heard Mike 1CC'd Ghouls tonight.

And Jep 1CC'd Strider.

[Mero]

What a coincidence, I cleared Strider for the first time the other day too!

[jepjepjep]

Congrats on the 1cc Mero. Strider is awesome!

mikehagger shared some Daimakaimura strategies with me at the shmupmeet, and I cleared the first loop tonight. I got as far as 2-4 and lost my last two lives on that caterpillar boss. I'm coming for you Satan!

[Necronopticous]

Just got the 1LC on Chohmakaimura! Been trying for weeks.

[Skykid]

Just got the 1LC on Chohmakaimura! Been trying for weeks.

Wow, that's awesome! Only ever seen it done on YouTube. That last stage must have taken its toll on your mental health.

[Necronopticous]

Yeah, I made it to loop 2 Astaroth tons of times before having my winning run tonight. It is absolutely brutal fighting him with the goddess bracelet, but so long as you enter 2-7 with the dagger and gold armor you can gun it through the stage and leave yourself a huge chunk of time to take him on patiently, which is really the only advantage you can squeeze into that awful fight.