Castlevania Miscellanies

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Sumez
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Sumez »

Blinge wrote:Man you know what can everyone stop saying X68K is a remake of CV1?

It's clearly like... not.
I often see people say that about CV4 >_>
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by copy-paster »

CV4 and X68K are indeed a remake/retelling of what happens at 1691, where one man singlehandedly beat Drac's ass and his night creatures. They were right in that sense, and yes X68K's main goal was remake the already good CV1 (they stated this in an interview) to something even better and yep it shows.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Rastan78 »

Blinge wrote:Man you know what can everyone stop saying X68K is a remake of CV1?

It's clearly like... not.
These are the devs own words:
In any event, our basic idea for Akumajou Dracula x68000 was an updated, more beautiful version of the original Famicom game, and contending with that was where most of our struggles lied.
https://shmuplations.com/akumajoux68000/

I really need to dust off my Chronicles disc and do a playthrough. I tend to revisit all the others from time to time, but it's been years since I revisited it.

On the other hand the Haunted Castle arcade game also gets sometimes referred to a remake/remaining of the original which is not the case. It's more like a reskin of a different game to transform it to CV at the last moment. Not completely unlike Mario Bros 2.

https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/i ... pic=9744.0
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Blinge »

These are the devs own words:
Well you guys sure told me. :mrgreen:

i still prefer retelling/ reimagining tbh.
I feel like the game does enough to distinguish itself from CV1 tho.. the caves, she wolf, functioning clock tower, tower of dolls, ice bit, swamp.

Rondo and Bloodlines also remake the entrance hall from CV1..

but then, ‘remake’ suffices for FF7 remake and that’s super different. It’s really hard to argue with when they call it REMAKE ffs.
In conclusion: i dunno.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Rastan78 »

Yeah I guess it gets into semantics bc there's not a hard line between a reimagining/remake/remaster. I agree it leans more into reimagining territory since it's completely not a 1:1 remake in design (obviously). Although given the creative intent behind development I don't think calling it a remake is totally wrong either.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by drauch »

There's not enough kindling on this fire! What about that terrible Rondo port, amirite?
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Blinge »

haha yeah they really fucked up with that port
smh
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Rastan78 »

Typical shmups forum anal retentive elitism. Everyone knows outside of Richter's 1 pixel per second slower walk speed and slightly more compression artifacts on the FMVs SNES Rondo port is 99.9999999% accurate. :mrgreen:
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Sumez »

Blinge wrote: but then, ‘remake’ suffices for FF7 remake and that’s super different. It’s really hard to argue with when they call it REMAKE ffs.
In conclusion: i dunno.
Turns out the "Remake" in "FF7: Remake" didn't even mean "game that is a remake of FF7" but
Spoiler
yet another semi-sequel spinoff title that explains how the events of FF7 get remade... in-universe
stupid jarpig animu plots
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Austin »

All right, well.. screw waiting for the weekend. I went ahead and spent a few hours last night getting a X68000 emulator set up and grabbed a bunch of games. Obviously the first thing I did was do a run through Akumajo Dracula.

The verdict? Yeah, it's better, naturally, but it's not a night and day difference, IMO.

The biggest difference (and probably the biggest factor making it more enjoyable) is how deep the colors are in the X68K version, along with the HUD being in its own separate area, no longer overlaid on top of the gameplay area itself. As a result, it feels like there is more vertical real estate (because there actually is), and characters don't appear as large on the screen as a result.

Also, there are visual flourishes that are extremely easy to miss in the PS1 version, like the scrolling sky on Stage 1. Really nice effect and it's pretty much covered up entirely (despite still being there) in the PS1 game. Some animations seem to trigger more often in the X68K game too, like the drapes in the first stage's entryway. They move quite frequently in the X68K version, whereas they are easy to miss in the PS1 version, to a point where I never realized they actually animate (they do, it just took playing the X68K game to make me verify).

The PS1 version seems to use a different color palette and comes off as looking lighter overall than the X68K game. Also, the PS1 game has that typical PS1 dithering, none of which I saw in the X68K version. I really liked the solid image of the later. I still think the PS1 game looks good though for what it is (a 2D PS1 game), especially on a CRT.

Comparing my recorded PS1 footage to what I streamed with the X68K game last night, they did an excellent job transferring the artwork over. So many aspects are basically 1-to-1 from what I can tell. Definitely not a cheap, lazy cash grab IMO, especially when you consider the extra flourishes in the Arrange Mode. There are some differences though, like the doppleganger's death animation where it spews out glass. It's different in the PS1 version and I think the effect there is actually one of the few areas where there is a visual improvement in the PS1 game.

Gameplay-wise I used my typical PS1 strategies and got through the game just fine. I didn't notice much in the way of poor hitboxes. Maybe some are just different, but it didn't require me to alter my play strategy much. I did get hit by the vertical worm in the ice cave, whereas I normally don't in the PS1 game, and I did get hit by the pendulum spiked ball in the X68K game, whereas I normally don't in the PS1 version, so I guess your mileage may vary. Perhaps I was required to duck and attack hunchbacks slightly more often (standing and whipping them seems to work more consistently in the PS1 game). I did notice the doll manipulation on stairs though, that was interesting. If you stop, they seem to stop too. Every step you take, they move briefly then stop again. It's interesting but comes off as a take-it-or-leave-it mechanic, I've never had an issue with that section.

Pacing-wise I prefer the slightly faster speed in the PS1 version. I started wondering to myself halfway through the X68K game, "Man, these stairs feel really slow in this version and that just adds time to the playthrough." That said, I was using a PC CRT and I'm not sure how well the emulator was recreating the original's refresh rate/speed.

Overall I'm glad I finally got around to trying the X68000 version, but for convenience sake I'll probably continue to just play the PS1 version when I get the urge. Well, that's assuming the MiSTer doesn't replicate it flawlessly. Steven said there were HUD glitches when he played it, but when I streamed it emulated last night others said it works perfectly fine on the MiSTer now, so if that's the case, perhaps I'll just continue to bounce back and forth between the two. I prefer the faster speed of the PS1 version, and prefer the greater screen real estate in the X68K version. MIDI support on the MiSTer also requires an external device and the PS1 game at least gives you those options out of the box. There seem to be pros and cons to playing both in this day and age, so I don't see why they can't coexist.

Oh, that reminds me--I do prefer the sound balance in the X68K version. The whip sound in particular is much less weighty and blends better with the music. The glass breaking sound was still harsh though. :mrgreen:
Blinge wrote:Yeah you may even be right but it comes off as condescending as fuck and that's what underlies this whole conversation. What you've been saying contradicts Austin's direct personal experience of the game. (that it's playable and fine)

There wouldn't be a problem but when it's shit like this lmao- " you're free to enjoy another version but a serious player.." SERIOUS PLAYER :lol:
I mean, I'd like to think I'm a "serious" player. I've done all the loops on the original mode in the PS1 version. :)

It's the fact that a majority of us are probably in our 40 or 50-somethings, yet still nitpick things to pieces and the tiniest little detail of difference can turn a game from gold to garbage instantly. Obviously preferences are going to be a thing, but it's kind of hard to have balanced, nuanced, meaningful conversation when people are still living in that sensationalist kind of mindset.
Rastan78 wrote:Typical shmups forum anal retentive elitism. Everyone knows outside of Richter's 1 pixel per second slower walk speed and slightly more compression artifacts on the FMVs SNES Rondo port is 99.9999999% accurate. :mrgreen:
HEY NOW.. Richter DOES walk a lot slower in that version, haha. To some it's kinda painful compared to the PCE version's smooth, brisk flow. It's honestly such a difference that it's comparable to how fast the first NES Castlevania flows, versus the X68000 remake. Definitely no pixel counting required there to notice the difference.
SuperDeadite wrote:As for me being condesending... I have never claimed to not be an asshole. :)
That's fair. I can respect anyone that openly admits that. :lol:
SuperDeadite wrote:Most ports from arcade to x68k are far from arcade perfect. To me X68K is all about the extras. MIDI, wacky controllers, doujin, etc. Bonanza Bros supports 15khz and 31khz, but not 24khz....XD Dracula is one of the few true exclusives that was built just for it alone though.
On that note, after going through Akumajo, I dabbled with a bunch of other X68000 games, mostly arcade ports, and I see what you mean. Final Fight was probably the most disappointing for me because of its hard enemy limit. It was beautiful and looked and sounded great, but I was like, "I'd rather just play the arcade version, there's literally no teeth in this port, even on the highest difficulty." I think there's a four enemy cap in it? Pretty tame.

Overall the arcade ports seem like a mixed bag. Not going to lie, Ghouls 'n Ghosts was excellent in the first two stages I played and I'll be working to go through the whole thing soon. R-Type, I didn't play for more than a minute or two because the aspect ratio via emulation on my CRT was just.. bad, even with trying to tweak it. Lots of shimmer and screen tearing and I didn't feel like mashing buttons on my keyboard. Twin Cobra seemed pretty solid. Been playing the ShotTriggers version a bunch lately and I didn't notice anything majorly "off" about it outside of tiny details (expected). Marble Madness was quite nice actually and looks to be hi-res, it was super crisp. Strider I couldn't get to load (three disk game, load screen all in Japanese so I couldn't tell what disk to swap in next). Space Harrier looked playable but was a bit choppy still, expected I guess. Couldn't play it because it needs the numeric keypad and I was using a smaller keyboard without one. Alien Syndrome actually seemed really nice. I'll try Viewpoint later just out of curiosity--the FM Towns version is pretty solid despite some frameskipping (if I remember correctly) when played on a Marty. If they botched the X68K version, I'll be interested to see why. I still have a lot more exploring to do with this library.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by SuperDeadite »

The main reason to play Final Fight on X68K these days is for the Roland MT-32 soundtrack.
It's standard MT-32, so the MUNT emulator will reproduce it perfectly.

Ghouls'n Ghosts uses standard GM MIDI, and therefore you can use it on just about anything.
A lot of X68K owners tend to be purists, and insist on "period correct" modules, but I say fuck that.
Ghouls'n Ghosts on a modern module or soundfont will blow you away.
Dreamblaster X2 is my personal favorite:
https://youtu.be/1hoFB7cndu8

R-Type is just bad, the Master System port is way more fun. Irem did learn though, and Image Fight is much better,
but little reason to play it these days outside of curiosity.

Dragon Spirit is fantastic. Supports true TATE in both 31khz and 15khz modes. Also contains both the "OLD" and "NEW VERSIONS"
of the game.

Kyukyoku Tiger actually supports true analog (via mouse) control. (Hold F2 during boot, holding F1 gives you auto-fire) It's weird, but
quite a fun way to play the game with practice as your speed is 1:1 with your hand movements.

Space Harrier is choppy at 10mhz, silky smooth at 16mhz though.

Marble Madness is one of the few games that support 24khz. It's the better way to play. Also plays really nice on the original Sharp Trackball.
Controllers is one part of emulation that is hard to reproduce. Afterburner doesn't look like much today, but I still play this version because of
the Cyberstick.

Strider needs to boot from the System disk, then you put Data Disk 1 in Drive 0 and Date Disk 2 in drive 1 iirc. I run most games off HDD these days,
I rarely use floppies anymore.

A lot of X68K games have weird extra options that are hard to know about if you don't read the manuals. If you feel like you are missing
something, you probably are. Nemesis '90 Kai for example will look at your system as it boots, and if you are running at 16mhz or faster and have
4mbs of RAM or more, it will load a different sound driver that does software mixing as the Oki ADPCM chip only has 1 channel.

Oh, and be sure to play Bosconian. It has a Yuzo Koshiro arranged soundtrack that is exclusive to this port.
Cotton is basically a remake, and better than the arcade (even has new exclusive bosses).

Anyway, this is a Castlevania topic, so just let me know if you have questions. :)
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Hazuki »

About the whole thing of the X68000 title being a reimagination of the original FDS game, yeah, that's correct. The game in fact went through 4 reincarnations: MSX, Arcade, SFC and X68000. In the west they all have different titles (Vampire Killer / Haunted Castle / Super Castlevania IV / Castlevania Chronicles). But in Japan they're all simply called "Akumajou Dracula". The only way to identify what game is being talked about over there is by stating the platform they're running on.

The devs released so many reimaginations probably because they couldn't do much with the limited FDS hardware and wanted to better express themselves as superior hardware became available. X68K version was the last and personally I think it's the pinnacle out of them all. SFC one would come in second place because despite having more stages, lacks the heavy/gritty arcade action of the former.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Steven »

Richter is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO slow in Dracula XX that I usually just jump as my primary method of movement since it's considerably faster than walking. Then I invariably get bored and turn the game off and play something else. It's not a bad game, and I'd actually dare to call it underrated or at least excessively hated for sure, but I definitely am not particularly entertained by it.
BrianC wrote:
Steven wrote:Fortunately, Akumakou Dracula actually works (mostly) on MiSTer, unlike most of the other X68000 games that I have tried. The HUD is a bit messed up, but it works.
The initial wait for the title screen is painful, but it's worth it. Game was a bit easier than expected (managed to get near the end without continuing on first serious play), but incredibly polished and fun). Neat how some of the themes were revisited for the SFC Akumajo Dracula, as well. Was surprised to see that tree enemy from the infamous AC Akumajo Dracula.

I recommend not giving up on some games. Some games I thought didn't work just hand a painfully long initial load (though Akumajou Dracula was one of those games for me).
Yeah, it takes a bit to load some games. I was unable to get past the title screen on Kyuukyoku Tiger despite pressing everything I had (I think I even plugged in my keyboard and pressed every key) and Hishouzame just gave me an error when I tried to load it, which was frustrating. Asuka 120% moves extremely slowly to the point where the game is basically unplayable, too. The X68000 core is definitely early in development, but at least Dracula works.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by SuperDeadite »

Kyukyoku Tiger requires keyboard to start.
XF3 = Insert Credit
XF1 = Player 1 Start
XF2 = Player 2 Start

XF keys only exist in X68k keyboards. XM6 remaps them to Kanji keys by default iirc. (Which also don't exist on non-Japanese keyboards). Never touched a Mister myself.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Steven »

I had a feeling it was one of the X68000's exclusive keys. I do of course use a Japanese keyboard, but even that won't help in this case.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

SuperDeadite wrote: Anyway, this is a Castlevania topic, so just let me know if you have questions. :)
Apparently, A. Dracula is optimized somehow for the X68030, how many games aside of this and M. Daisakusen officially are like this? And I mean to run differently even to how they the do on a 68000-XVI.

Thanks.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Sengoku Strider »

For anyone interested, Limited Run made a special run of Castlevania Anniversary Collection for PAX West this year. They just put the remainders on sale this morning, I was able to grab a copy for Switch. As of this post it looks like they're not sold out yet.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by BrianC »

Steven wrote:The X68000 core is definitely early in development, but at least Dracula works.
It updated fairly recently and is a lot further along than it used to be. I don't remember Asuka 120% running slowly, but I could be confusing it with the PCE version, which does run on MiSTer.

Edit: I just tried it. It seems to run ok, but I'm not sure how fast it's supposed to run. It definitely runs too fast in Turbo mode. Maybe it's supposed to be more like earlier SF2 style games? I do notice an odd lack of sound effects and voice samples, though.

Edit2: Odd. Asuka 120% runs faster from the floppy image than the hard drive image. Asuka's punch animation is noticeably faster from the floppy image. I can see the frames as it comes out from the hard drive image, but not from the floppy disk image.

I beat the final stage in Akumajou Dracula, but I used a save. Very nice game. I don't know why I assumed it came before the SNES game, which was one of the earlier games on the system. Definitely one of the better Castlevania games.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by SuperDeadite »

Bassa-Bassa wrote:
SuperDeadite wrote: Anyway, this is a Castlevania topic, so just let me know if you have questions. :)
Apparently, A. Dracula is optimized somehow for the X68030, how many games aside of this and M. Daisakusen officially are like this? And I mean to run differently even to how they the do on a 68000-XVI.

Thanks.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

Less than I thought, indeed. Here's what they said about A. Dracula:


In the middle of the development the x68030 model was released, so naturally we wanted it to work on that system too. As such there’s a few sections where some subtle differences will be apparent to new owners of the x68030, like places where the animation is smoother.


Also, Akumajou Dracula x68000 is intended to not slow down much on a 10MHz machine, but then the X68030 came out, and the XVI and ’30 are 25MHz. So we tried to make it so that the in-game refresh rate would speed up depending on the machine’s power. Please play using the fastest system possible if you can. At the beginning, our motto was “There’s still life left in this 10MHz processor!”, but halfway through it changed to “Wow, look what we can do with 30MHz!”… But I guess it could’ve been a great game if it was exclusive to the ’30.

https://shmuplations.com/akumajoux68000/

Now how different it got against running it on a 68000-XVI (in the case that they're actually treating them as two different specs/versions, which isn't too clear) doesn't seem to be documented anywhere. The game cover just mentions the usual "X68030 compatibility", but that's it, the manual doesn't even touch it.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by SuperDeadite »

Yeah I'm aware of that. Never seen any proof that 030 power does anything. Even with the 3D patch it never slows down at 16mhz. Only hidden option known is the GM sound option.

030 was kind of doomed from the start. The cpu is powerful as hell, but the graphics chips are exacty the same. Software driven polygons are where the 32bit upgrade is most useful.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Steven »

BrianC wrote:
Steven wrote:The X68000 core is definitely early in development, but at least Dracula works.
It updated fairly recently and is a lot further along than it used to be. I don't remember Asuka 120% running slowly, but I could be confusing it with the PCE version, which does run on MiSTer.

Edit: I just tried it. It seems to run ok, but I'm not sure how fast it's supposed to run. It definitely runs too fast in Turbo mode. Maybe it's supposed to be more like earlier SF2 style games? I do notice an odd lack of sound effects and voice samples, though.

Edit2: Odd. Asuka 120% runs faster from the floppy image than the hard drive image. Asuka's punch animation is noticeably faster from the floppy image. I can see the frames as it comes out from the hard drive image, but not from the floppy disk image.
It must have gotten fixed in the most recent update; the screen would update maybe once every 2 seconds or so when I tried it. It was very bad.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

SuperDeadite wrote:Yeah I'm aware of that. Never seen any proof that 030 power does anything. Even with the 3D patch it never slows down at 16mhz. Only hidden option known is the GM sound option.

030 was kind of doomed from the start. The cpu is powerful as hell, but the graphics chips are exacty the same. Software driven polygons are where the 32bit upgrade is most useful.
I guess they were afraid of running into retrocompatibility issues. The X68030, the MSX Turbo R, the PC88VA, even the PC9821... consoles and Windows killed all the successors for the 90s before they could say a word anyway.

Have you made a list of games officially optimized for the 68000-XVI (or has any japanese site you know of compiled them somewhere)?
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by SuperDeadite »

Bassa-Bassa wrote:
SuperDeadite wrote:Yeah I'm aware of that. Never seen any proof that 030 power does anything. Even with the 3D patch it never slows down at 16mhz. Only hidden option known is the GM sound option.

030 was kind of doomed from the start. The cpu is powerful as hell, but the graphics chips are exacty the same. Software driven polygons are where the 32bit upgrade is most useful.
I guess they were afraid of running into retrocompatibility issues. The X68030, the MSX Turbo R, the PC88VA, even the PC9821... consoles and Windows killed all the successors for the 90s before they could say a word anyway.

Have you made a list of games officially optimized for the 68000-XVI (or has any japanese site you know of compiled them somewhere)?
Turbo-R is actually quite useful for a modern freak like me. MSX dev is fantastic.

Never bothered with a 16mhz is better list. I generally run my XVI at 16mhz all the time except for the games with issues. Some games really benefit, others are more subtle.. Atomic Robo Kid is a good example. Game is smooth at 10mhz, but the non-playable stage transitions get choppy. 16mhz smoothes these out. A lot of games that didn't work at 16 got fan patched to fix them. As an HDD user, I have patched most of my games already.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Marc »

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/ ... ng-q1-2023

Nice. Be the best CV in years if its up to the same standard as the rest of Dead Cells.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Air Master Burst »

Marc wrote:https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/ ... ng-q1-2023

Nice. Be the best CV in years if its up to the same standard as the rest of Dead Cells.
HYPE! But also procedural generation and linearity, so anyone expecting a metroidvania is gonna be disappointed.

ETA: very interested in which weapons they include, there's not much from the IGA games that Dead Cells doesn't already have a better version of.
King's Field IV is the best Souls game.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by MJR »

That was certainly great news. I love Dead Cells, one of the best games in recent times.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Sumez »

Marc wrote:Nice. Be the best CV in years if its up to the same standard as the rest of Dead Cells.
Preeetty sure its just gonna be Dead Cells with a CV skin :)
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Air Master Burst »

Sumez wrote:
Marc wrote:Nice. Be the best CV in years if its up to the same standard as the rest of Dead Cells.
Preeetty sure its just gonna be Dead Cells with a CV skin :)
So, the best CV in years then.
King's Field IV is the best Souls game.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Sumez »

I don't really see much similarity between Dead Cells and the CV series, and I especially don't need a "roguelite" cv if it were one.
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