Castlevania Miscellanies

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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BIL
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by BIL »

Blinge wrote:I hope to get a 1LC/no miss to my name in the Bloodstained classicmode.
Which is a de facto classicvania

(hell not sure what thread to talk about it in)

I was on track but then fucked the jump up and walked off an edge in stage 5 clocktower reeee

I dunno how you guys have the patience honestly, I always felt 1ccs were a nice middle ground, and only have Ninja Gaiden + Contra under my belt for one-lifers.
(although NG is no picnic.. to state the obvious)
1LC = interactive movie, rehearsals and reshoots out the ass. :cool: :lol:
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by copy-paster »

One more bump since the page is changed

Wanted: commentators for my upcoming X68000/Chronicles arrange run for some big Twitch event, schedules are here. Run notes says both are going to be 1CC run but I want them to be Nomiss run as possible.
BIL wrote:Definitely ask SuperDeadite for that one, and Squire Grooktook if you can reach him (I'd volunteer but my voice comms are utter shit atm and I'll be away then). Best of luck! Image
Forgot that Squire were into the game, think he's quite active in one of discord servers I'm in I'll ask him later. Deadite and him would make a killer combo for sure. :lol:
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Steven »

I got so close to a no miss on NES Castlevania. Or maybe it was FDS or FC Dracula, but I don't remember, although I do think it was NES. Anyway, I made it to the last room in the game that has enemies before Dracula and I fucking died there. Super disappointing. Pretty sure I no missed Rondo with Richter, though that game's super easy.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by SuperDeadite »

copy-paster wrote:One more bump since the page is changed

Wanted: commentators for my upcoming X68000/Chronicles arrange run for some big Twitch event, schedules are here. Run notes says both are going to be 1CC run but I want them to be Nomiss run as possible.
BIL wrote:Definitely ask SuperDeadite for that one, and Squire Grooktook if you can reach him (I'd volunteer but my voice comms are utter shit atm and I'll be away then). Best of luck! Image
Forgot that Squire were into the game, think he's quite active in one of discord servers I'm in I'll ask him later. Deadite and him would make a killer combo for sure. :lol:
I'm in Japan, what time for me? I have to work this Saturday so good chance I can't make it. Question though why Chronicles? You are making the game more difficult by playing that trash port
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Blinge
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Blinge »

I thought the x68k was harder

I have 1cc'd it too guize :cry:
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Austin »

“Trash port” gets me every time.

:roll:
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Blinge »

https://youtu.be/1CM2Sy5QtAI

From utterly clowning on the doppelgangers..
.. to losing my run in the stupidest way.
this is every night for me lately haha
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by copy-paster »

SuperDeadite wrote:I'm in Japan, what time for me? I have to work this Saturday so good chance I can't make it. Question though why Chronicles? You are making the game more difficult by playing that trash port
That link automatically adjust to your timezone assuming your device set on the right time. It will be both ways so X68K first (using XM6 TypeG emulator) then PS1 Arrange, this means there should be good amount of commentary material like pointing out differences and such.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by SuperDeadite »

So 2:00am Sunday? Not gonna make that sorry.

And as stated before, Chronicles Original Mode is harder than the real X68K version. Main offender is that the game was designed for 55htz. Chronicles is sped up to 60htz. This makes She-wolf, Doppleganger, traps, and the timer a lot harder than they were meant to be. Even old reviews from when the port came out complained the timer was too strict. Also resolution is halfed (x68k runs at 512x512, 31khz). Hit boxes are strange as well and lack the razor perfectness of the x68k game.

Chronicles is not a port, it is a recreation from sprite rips. For its release time its playable, but any serious player will find emulating the real game to be the superior experience.

If this was a Cave shooter, this board would universally disown Chronicles. But since its a wacky exotic computer system with rather convoluted Japanese emulators, people tend to ignore the flaws.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

SuperDeadite wrote:resolution is halfed (x68k runs at 512x512, 31khz). Hit boxes are strange as well and lack the razor perfectness of the x68k game.
If that happens, it's not a resolution thing. The original game actually runs at 256x256 31kHz, which means the resolution gets indeed doubled vertically and, in this case, horizontally as well when displayed, but the game is rendered at its native rez. So hit boxes or sprite movement cannot be made in 512x512 but they're locked to 256x256. So it must be a perception thing as the 31khz display uses to be sharper. Either, that or they just changed hit boxes when programming the port. Emulating the Playstation game at 512x480 (unfiltered) should clarify this.

Emulating the X68000 game can get you the native resolution displayed (while keeping video timings), by the way. So much better than the real thing in this case, if you ask me.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by SuperDeadite »

??? As I stated emulating the real X68k version is fine. Far better option than playing the ps1 version. The ps1 version's hitboxes are wrong. This is because the game is a recreation made from ripping the graphics from the x68k version. It is not a true port. Couple that with the ps1 game running too fast and it simply ruins the perfection of the original. I bought the ps1 version the day it came out (long before I knew the x68k even existed). To this day, I've never beaten it. But after getting my real system, I was looping the game in a week.

Emulate or real deal. Chronicles has no reason to exist anymore (excpet for that super 90's redbook dance mix).

As for the pixel doubling, it allows the game to run in 3d with no loss of detail. Best looking 3d game ever. :)
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

SuperDeadite wrote:???
I'm not defending the PS1 version at all (though, at least, it's 240p, unlike the original), I thought you're linking the hit boxes and lack of "razor perfectness" issues to the resolution aspect because otherwise I cannot see how 512x512 for a 256x256 game is preferable to plain 256x256, hence my explanation. If it's just that you're a weirdo, don't mind me. ;-)

Anyway, it's an interesting discussion, what we should call a "port". Is it only when the original code is ported over?
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Austin »

Deadite, I appreciate your insight into the X68K original, but you continue to rail against the PS1 version and then claim to never have finished it? What in the actual fuck? Major red flag into me actually giving two craps about your insight right there. Typical shmups forum anal-retentive BS.

The PS1 game is perfectly solid. Sure, there are differences, but for the general layman (which is basically everyone other than you, given how obscure the X68K is, heh) they aren’t going to notice or even think one bit about it. It’s generally a very well regarded CV in its PS1 form. Not to mention it’s more welcoming to newcomers with its arrange mode.

You know, I still haven’t played the 68K original. I always wanted to hold out for real hardware or getting a fully functioning X68K core on the MiSTer. Maybe this will motivate me to simply emulate it. And I will run it into a PC CRT too to get a more “authentic” experience. I’ve completed the PS1 game dozens of times (along with basically every other linearVania), so I should be able to provide decent insight into how much “better” all the subtle changes actually makes the game.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

He explained pretty valid reasons, aside of the resolution thing. And he's just saying that the PS1 is not the version to play today, not that it's a bad game. 55Hz into 60Hz is indeed very noticeable, think of Raiden or R-Type on PS1 against the original PCBs. And there's no need of an X68000 computer to play it these days even in a better form than the original, so the layman argument is weak as well.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by SuperDeadite »

Every single person I know who went from PS1 to X68K (Emu or real) have all noticed the differences. PS1 version was a quick and dirty budget game. The Japanese version even has a major bug where the Arrange mode redbook music will just stop playing (Konami fixed this for the Western versions thankfully).

These days MIDI emulation is also excellent. PS1 version served it's purpose, but is not the way the game was meant to be played.

Yes, I never finished the PS1 version, but who cares? Do I have to complete the X68K port of Full Throttle before I can say it sucks? (It's awful).
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Blinge »

Austin wrote:What in the actual fuck? Major red flag into me actually giving two craps about your insight right there. Typical shmups forum anal-retentive BS.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I chuckled. :lol:
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

One thing I don't think I've seen come up anywhere is that the werewolf boss is a lot easier in the PS1 version because she's missing a crucial behavior - she can duck under thrown crosses in the X68k version, but will stand still and eat them in PS1. I'm sure there are other changes / inaccuracies throughout the game, but that one alone makes the X68k version the harder one.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by SuperDeadite »

She-Wolf is possibly my favorite boss in the entire series. Such a fantastic fight. Just hold back, watch what she does and punish her mistakes. I prefer the axe for this fight, as she will dodge them leaving her wide open for a whip. Also, the diagonal down-forward whip is extremely useful in this fight. Of course if you screw up, she will punish you in return. Very satisfiying to master.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Steven »

Fortunately, Akumakou Dracula actually works (mostly) on MiSTer, unlike most of the other X68000 games that I have tried. The HUD is a bit messed up, but it works.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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I'm definitely on the X68K > PS1 gang as well. That stair walking animation, tight hitboxes, dolls stop moving if you stop moving on the stairs (you could manipulate their position this way), she-wolf will duck if you throw cross on the ground none of these present in PS1. I can dodge the st4 spinning spikes and st5 pendulum spike consistently in X68K whereas in PS1 it's a gamble whether you get hit or no, the latter is especially mean because get hit once and you'll knockback straight on the pitfall.

So about Re: ports, all of Konami PS1/PS2 (atleast what KCET did) ports are seemingly were done from scratch as they stated once in Salamander Deluxe pack interview they recreate the sprites and copy the game behaviour all by eye. It's hella impressive because Salamander DP turned out being 98% indistinguishable from the arcade original too.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Austin »

SuperDeadite wrote:Yes, I never finished the PS1 version, but who cares? Do I have to complete the X68K port of Full Throttle before I can say it sucks? (It's awful).
I care, especially if I am looking to take someone's word with more than a grain of salt.
Bassa-Bassa wrote:He explained pretty valid reasons, aside of the resolution thing. And he's just saying that the PS1 is not the version to play today, not that it's a bad game. 55Hz into 60Hz is indeed very noticeable, think of Raiden or R-Type on PS1 against the original PCBs. And there's no need of an X68000 computer to play it these days even in a better form than the original, so the layman argument is weak as well.
That's my issue with the whole thing. He *IS* saying it's a bad game, which is utterly ridiculous. I understand being disappointed that it's not 1-to-1, but give me a freaking break. He drags the PS1 version through the mud every chance he's given, because it doesn't sit on this magical pedestal like the X68000 version does, and thus it's "garbage" as a result.
copy-paster wrote:I'm definitely on the X68K > PS1 gang as well. That stair walking animation, tight hitboxes, dolls stop moving if you stop moving on the stairs (you could manipulate their position this way), she-wolf will duck if you throw cross on the ground none of these present in PS1. I can dodge the st4 spinning spikes and st5 pendulum spike consistently in X68K whereas in PS1 it's a gamble whether you get hit or no, the latter is especially mean because get hit once and you'll knockback straight on the pitfall.
Preferring the X68K is perfectly fair, and to me your explanations for why you prefer the X68K version are more valid than minor resolution and refresh rate differences (really, look at just about any computer to console port back during this time, and they will likely exhibit those same differences; it was a fact of life back then). If there are any more major gameplay differences that actually matter like with the doll manipulation or the she-wolf ducking, I'd love to hear them.

I'll probably try to set up a X68K emulator this weekend and finally try it myself. I'm pretty in-tune with the PS1 version as I've done several runs this month myself, so I'll most certainly pick up on the differences.
copy-paster wrote:So about Re: ports, all of Konami PS1/PS2 (atleast what KCET did) ports are seemingly were done from scratch as they stated once in Salamander Deluxe pack interview they recreate the sprites and copy the game behaviour all by eye. It's hella impressive because Salamander DP turned out being 98% indistinguishable from the arcade original too.
Honestly, this makes me wonder if a lot of other 2D arcade conversions to the PS1 were handled similarly, given how the PS1 handles 2D (or perhaps I should say, how it doesn't).
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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Steven wrote:Fortunately, Akumakou Dracula actually works (mostly) on MiSTer, unlike most of the other X68000 games that I have tried. The HUD is a bit messed up, but it works.
The initial wait for the title screen is painful, but it's worth it. Game was a bit easier than expected (managed to get near the end without continuing on first serious play), but incredibly polished and fun). Neat how some of the themes were revisited for the SFC Akumajo Dracula, as well. Was surprised to see that tree enemy from the infamous AC Akumajo Dracula.

I recommend not giving up on some games. Some games I thought didn't work just hand a painfully long initial load (though Akumajou Dracula was one of those games for me).
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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Dracula IV predates the '93 cross-platform trio (Rondo, X68k and Vampire Killer, the last in development but released a year later). AC Dracula does indeed cast a surprisingly long shadow over the series, aesthetically... loads of things great and small in there that popped up in Dracula III and the 16bit entries, and even SOTN. Depending on which you believe was the first, Dracula II has lots in common as well, most famously Bloody Tears and the game over jingle "Never End."

Bangin' OST in general too, ofc, like so many of Konami's 85/95 arcade canon.

Shame they never revisited its neat "pay for endstage HP restore with hearts" mechanic. :cool: While it's undoubtedly the weakest linear classic Dracula, that's a killer riff that encourages consistently excellent play. Vampire Killer letting you stock ammo over the game's entire course is nearly as good, though.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by SuperDeadite »

Lol. This has nothing to do with putting the X68K on a pedistal. It is just the true version of the game. It's how it was designed to be played. You are more than welcome to enjoy the PS1 version, but a serious player who wants a 1LC should really stick to the original. The spike traps are messed up because the game runs too fast. They were designed for 55Hz.

I prefer to stick to how a game was meant to be played, I really don't care what it runs on. X68K has lots of terrible ports:

R-Type - holy shit irem how did you fuck up so badly?
Viewpoint - slow, barren, boring
Full Throttle - why does this even exist?
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

SuperDeadite wrote: Viewpoint - slow, barren, boring
I was discussing this the other day with a friend of mine who still surprises me to this date with with some obscure trivia apparently only he knows. Seems X68000 Viewpoint is indeed a perfect example of quick and dirty budget game - basically Nexus Interact was hired by Sammy to develop the Genesis version and got the rights in exchange to publish their own version for the Sharp computer (which shares the same CPU), when it was pretty much dead in the videogame market.

We may lament the speed increase of A. Dracula due to the different refresh rates (which the PS1 just could do nothing about) but the truth is many arcade ports for the X68000 did suffer exactly from the opposite, going from 60Hz to 55. Not to mention the foolishness of depriving them even in more instances of their native 240p scan rate when it was perfectly possible on this machine.

Austin wrote:
copy-paster wrote:So about Re: ports, all of Konami PS1/PS2 (atleast what KCET did) ports are seemingly were done from scratch as they stated once in Salamander Deluxe pack interview they recreate the sprites and copy the game behaviour all by eye. It's hella impressive because Salamander DP turned out being 98% indistinguishable from the arcade original too.
Honestly, this makes me wonder if a lot of other 2D arcade conversions to the PS1 were handled similarly, given how the PS1 handles 2D (or perhaps I should say, how it doesn't).
I haven't found where in that snippet they state exactly that and it sounds little plausible, but Gun Frontier on the 32bit consoles is a popular example. My guess is the Arcade Gears series by Xing in its entirety is like this.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by BrianC »

Full Throttle - why does this even exist?
Not to be confused with the Lucasarts adventure game of the same name.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Blinge »

SuperDeadite wrote:Lol. This has nothing to do with putting the X68K on a pedistal. It is just the true version of the game. It's how it was designed to be played. You are more than welcome to enjoy the PS1 version, but a serious player who wants a 1LC should really stick to the original
Yeah you may even be right but it comes off as condescending as fuck and that's what underlies this whole conversation.
What you've been saying contradicts Austin's direct personal experience of the game. (that it's playable and fine)

There wouldn't be a problem but when it's shit like this lmao- " you're free to enjoy another version but a serious player.."

SERIOUS PLAYER :lol:
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Blinge »

Man you know what can everyone stop saying X68K is a remake of CV1?

It's clearly like... not.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by SuperDeadite »

Bassa-Bassa wrote:
SuperDeadite wrote: Viewpoint - slow, barren, boring
I was discussing this the other day with a friend of mine who still surprises me to this date with with some obscure trivia apparently only he knows. Seems X68000 Viewpoint is indeed a perfect example of quick and dirty budget game - basically Nexus Interact was hired by Sammy to develop the Genesis version and got the rights in exchange to publish their own version for the Sharp computer (which shares the same CPU), when it was pretty much dead in the videogame market.

We may lament the speed increase of A. Dracula due to the different refresh rates (which the PS1 just could do nothing about) but the truth is many arcade ports for the X68000 did suffer exactly from the opposite, going from 60Hz to 55. Not to mention the foolishness of depriving them even in more instances of their native 240p scan rate when it was perfectly possible on this machine.

Austin wrote:
copy-paster wrote:So about Re: ports, all of Konami PS1/PS2 (atleast what KCET did) ports are seemingly were done from scratch as they stated once in Salamander Deluxe pack interview they recreate the sprites and copy the game behaviour all by eye. It's hella impressive because Salamander DP turned out being 98% indistinguishable from the arcade original too.
Honestly, this makes me wonder if a lot of other 2D arcade conversions to the PS1 were handled similarly, given how the PS1 handles 2D (or perhaps I should say, how it doesn't).
I haven't found where in that snippet they state exactly that and it sounds little plausible, but Gun Frontier on the 32bit consoles is a popular example. My guess is the Arcade Gears series by Xing in its entirety is like this.

Most ports from arcade to x68k are far from arcade perfect. To me X68K is all about the extras. MIDI, wacky controllers, doujin, etc. Bonanza Bros supports 15khz and 31khz, but not 24khz....XD Dracula is one of the few true exclusives that was built just for it alone though.

As for me being condesending... I have never claimed to not be an asshole. :)
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Mortificator »

Blinge wrote:Man you know what can everyone stop saying X68K is a remake of CV1?

It's clearly like... not.
Well, stage 1 is a direct translation (with added "gotcha!" moment when you look where the wall meat's supposed to be). There are tons of additions after, yet it still hits iconic CV1 setpieces: the red brick cathedral with Medusa, the waves of birds dropping fleamen after you emerge from the caves, the axe armor / Medusa head gauntlet and subsequent art gallery of Death, the giant bat bridge, same Dracula fight...

It also uses the same story verbatim, which is enough to get people calling it a remake even if its game structure was dissimilar otherwise. The Adventure Rebirth likewise gets billed as remake of The Adventure, despite being much more different from it than X68k Dracula is from Famicom Dracula.
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