The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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cj iwakura
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by cj iwakura »

BryanM wrote:It's kind of weird that Digimon games are kind of honorary SMT games these days. Not as weird as Ariana Grande and Katy Perry being official Final Fantasy characters. But still a little weird.

Digimon x SMT: Survive Digimon Tuner, some day...
Cyber Sleuth had massive Soul Hackers vibes, apart from being super easy.
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Sima Tuna
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by Sima Tuna »

Both Cyber Sleuth games were super fun. Too easy, sure, but fun all the same. They definitely scratched that SMT itch for me.
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by Blinge »

Honestly Chernobog makes me wanna quit the game.
What am i supposed to do fuse an entire party to withstand mamudo? He obliterates me by castjng blight twice on a fully defense buffed party -_-

And thats if i’m lucky enough to get through the horde first without being completely aids ridden

Edit: nvm beat him lol
( literally the attempt after this rage post )
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Blinge
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by Blinge »

Things are a bit different these days. I'm in Shibuya now
Mc/ Flynn has Blight... Blight +6

most random encounters I now one shot with him :lol: i've become drunk with power.
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by Steven »

SMT 30th anniversary event: https://www.gamecity.ne.jp/event/2023/smt_30th/

I might go. I am not sure if the tickets are for the live or just to get in, but either way they are crazy expensive!
Blinge wrote:Things are a bit different these days. I'm in Shibuya now
Mc/ Flynn has Blight... Blight +6

most random encounters I now one shot with him :lol: i've become drunk with power.
A bit late, but Blight is busted as shit in this game, which you probably noticed lol
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by BryanM »

See, Genshin Impact's success led to a couple other corpos realizing there's money being left on the table by not making real games for the platform. Which just leads to more games being made. At least, I hope this one's a real game.

I like how the crowds of NPC's have simplified 3d models and no faces, it really goes with the aesthetic.
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by BulletMagnet »

Possible snippet of a Persona 3 remake.

Also, for anyone with Persona 5 Royal on PS4 (in the US, specifically) the previously paid DLC for that version is now free.
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by Steven »

I completely forgot about that 30th anniversary event and it looks like tickets are no longer being sold. Oops. Oh well.
BulletMagnet wrote:Possible snippet of a Persona 3 remake.
Hopefully they manage to not make the game super boring this time. Atlus hasn't made a single decent new Megami Tensei game since they were acquired, but their ports and remakes have been good, so since this falls under that category, maybe it will turn out pretty okay. Would be willing to check it out on PC, but of course Sega + PC = Denuvo, so...
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by BryanM »

Steam is also banning Windows 7 and 8, so you also have to install the malware of 10 or 14 or 23 or whatever it's up to now.

It's been like twelve seconds, so I assume it's around 28 or so??

I dunno, this is something I saw coming a mile away when Steam was talked about coming out back in the 00's. The loss of power and control. Emulators are already banned on X-Box, everyone who doesn't think they won't eventually get banned on Windows "proper" are extremely optimistic...
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

I get that they can't support every older OS on their frontend indefinitely, but it's frustrating that they're not offering a way to decouple the Steam client from the games so people who bought games that run under Windows 7 can still play them without being forced to install a spyware version of Windows that loves to give you ads in an infantilized user interface.

Fortunately there's a few ways around it, but not all games work with the emulated DLLs, and GOG's practice of selling the games as standalone clients without DRM obviously is vastly superior except perhaps for networked games where Steam's network support appears to be top tier as far as PC gaming goes.

I honestly don't want to upgrade as I'm perfectly happy with Windows 7 and my PC as is, but the loss of Steam support risks killing access to a half a dozen games I play, which will be quite obnoxious.

Most people using Steam are the type that seem to want the latest and greatest of everything as far as PC gaming goes, hence their specs for users on Win 10/11. The crowd that's focused on playing older games doesn't generate their income so there's no financial reason for them to give a shit about us.
Emulators are already banned on X-Box, everyone who doesn't think they won't eventually get banned on Windows "proper" are extremely optimistic...
How would they do this though? It's not like a console release; if you can compile your own software on the operating system then you'd also be able to run other people's binaries, so I don't forsee Windows somehow blocking emulators without vastly restricting the usability of the operating system to the point where people would jump ship en-masse.
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by BryanM »

It's really stupid to have the DRM have more stringent requirements than the game you're playing.

Letting Valve take their dollar for Titan Quest is one of the most vile, immoral things I have ever done. Especially after I saw GOG selling the real, actual thing for the same price. I was just excited about getting the anniversary edition for five buckeroos and wasn't thinking, since they hadn't started banning operating systems yet. (Naturally, no refunds! after they did.)

BryanM's total time played on Titan Quest in his entire life: about three hours back in 2006. On the demo.
How would they do this though? It's not like a console release; if you can compile your own software on the operating system then you'd also be able to run other people's binaries, so I don't forsee Windows somehow blocking emulators without vastly restricting the usability of the operating system to the point where people would jump ship en-masse.
Naturally their ideal would be to develop programs able to violate people's privacy to enforce their IP laws. It's the thing of science fiction currently, but seems a little less so as every day passes.

A world where any kind of entertainment media can be generated by the press of a button, but the internet is locked down as hard as cable TV. A perfect dystopia.

... hahhh... Did you hear about how they'd like to pass legislation to ban Tiktok? Freaking Tiktok???

It would indeed be cool if the future allowed us to be rebels using the Cyberpunk OS (that's not anything like Linux) to democratize the future crime of uh, using our imaginations, but I suspect the elon cubes or whatever we're imprisoned in won't allow it.

It's only ridiculous until it starts being reality. Remember those old jokes in the 90's about Trump becoming president and the statue of David being banned? Black Mirror is today's equivalent of that.

It's uh... not as much fun or as amusing as The Simpsons was..
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by cfx »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:I get that they can't support every older OS on their frontend indefinitely, but it's frustrating that they're not offering a way to decouple the Steam client from the games so people who bought games that run under Windows 7 can still play them without being forced to install a spyware version of Windows that loves to give you ads in an infantilized user interface.

Fortunately there's a few ways around it, but not all games work with the emulated DLLs, and GOG's practice of selling the games as standalone clients without DRM obviously is vastly superior except perhaps for networked games where Steam's network support appears to be top tier as far as PC gaming goes.

I honestly don't want to upgrade as I'm perfectly happy with Windows 7 and my PC as is, but the loss of Steam support risks killing access to a half a dozen games I play, which will be quite obnoxious.

Most people using Steam are the type that seem to want the latest and greatest of everything as far as PC gaming goes, hence their specs for users on Win 10/11. The crowd that's focused on playing older games doesn't generate their income so there's no financial reason for them to give a shit about us.
I've been wondering about something related to the Steam client Windows requirements. Steam ended support for Windows XP in 2019:
https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/v ... -3EFC-283C

Yet there are game pages like this one for Code of Princess EX:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/7113 ... incess_EX/

That lists the minimum OS requirement as Windows XP, and the game came out October 2020, long after Steam support for XP was ended. Unless Code of Princess EX is one of those rare games that will run outside of the Steam client, how does that claim it works in Windows XP make any sense?

And even if it is one of those standalone games, you have to be running Windows 7 (or now Windows 10/11/whatever) in order to buy and download it, so how do you actually play it in Windows XP?
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by BryanM »

cfx wrote:And even if it is one of those standalone games, you have to be running Windows 7 (or now Windows 10/11/whatever) in order to buy and download it, so how do you actually play it in Windows XP?
You don't and can't. Not legally at least, not from Steam. It's fraud. (Just think of the thousands more games that are to come that will support 7/8 and be listed as such in their store.)

If you buy it on sale and wait a few months until you feel like playing it... No refunds.

Since the obsolescence date is accelerating, I imagine Windows 10 only has a couple years left, tops. Can't let people commit the crime of... playing the video games that they paid for.

Diablo 3 did the same thing. The game itself requires XP. The update launcher, which you have to run to play, requires more than that. Baffling.

.... at least it isn't as bad as Warcraft 3 Reforged. They literally retroactively erased the online play ability of the original game. It'd be like Nintendo using a time machine to kill all the NES carts of Super Mario or something..

................. if they could do that, they might just would do that. Assholes like Garth Brooks got so mad at people selling their used tapes and CD's. So mad.
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by Blinge »

I'm on neutral path in SMTIV

how the ever loving fuck was i supposed to guess
Spoiler
Masakado
I've never seen this word in my life. i can't remember the name of the schoolgirl looking bitch who was running about.
which is cool in a way cause no one in game can remember her either.

what the hell, I've been wandering around, doing sidequests..(except beelzebub who fucking wiped me with megidolaon triple cast despite being fully debuffed, and my party fully buffed ).

- there's been no way to pick up the trail and type that damn name? am I missing something?
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by Steven »

Beelzebub is one of the hardest bosses in the game along with Red Rider, who is by far the hardest (Antichthon -> Antichthon -> Antichthon, whether you resist fire or not) unless you count the DLC. There are specific sidequests that you have to do to finish the neutral route and ones that you can ignore, and I think you do not have to fight Beelzebub, so feel free to skip him in that case. I don't remember the actual required ones, especially since I just did everything, but there should be some information on GameFAQs somewhere.
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

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BryanM wrote:
cfx wrote:And even if it is one of those standalone games, you have to be running Windows 7 (or now Windows 10/11/whatever) in order to buy and download it, so how do you actually play it in Windows XP?
You don't and can't. Not legally at least, not from Steam. It's fraud. (Just think of the thousands more games that are to come that will support 7/8 and be listed as such in their store.)

If you buy it on sale and wait a few months until you feel like playing it... No refunds.
That's what I thought. I don't use Steam (and thus mostly don't play PC games anymore), but things like this really drive home that I made the right decision by not using it.
BryanM wrote:Since the obsolescence date is accelerating, I imagine Windows 10 only has a couple years left, tops. Can't let people commit the crime of... playing the video games that they paid for.
This was the other part that I really noticed. They stuck with XP longer than most things, which I thought was fairly commendable, in context. But this with Windows 7 is a lot sooner, and quite soon for Windows 8 and 8.1; they probably get away with killing 8/8.1 that quickly simply because those versions of the OS were never that popular.

Killing Windows 10 will also obsolete a lot of hardware. Windows 11 requires a TPM; there's an official registry hack to get around some level of that I believe, but if you have a computer that's 12 years old or so like mine, you're mostly SOL. And PC tech is mature enough that other than this type of planned obsolescence, PCs that age do most things just fine, or at least anything I use mine for. And many games are still playable on such hardware as long as they aren't the latest so-called AAA graphical showcases.
BryanM wrote:Diablo 3 did the same thing. The game itself requires XP. The update launcher, which you have to run to play, requires more than that. Baffling.

.... at least it isn't as bad as Warcraft 3 Reforged. They literally retroactively erased the online play ability of the original game. It'd be like Nintendo using a time machine to kill all the NES carts of Super Mario or something..

................. if they could do that, they might just would do that. Assholes like Garth Brooks got so mad at people selling their used tapes and CD's. So mad.
That reminded me of DIVX. Not the codec, but that short-lived thing that was a DVD-like disc that self-destructed after a certain amount of time, or however it worked. Hard to find references due to the common name, but here was an article I found for anyone curious that hasn't heard of or remembered this: https://history-computer.com/the-real-r ... tacularly/

Ok, they didn't quite self-destruct, though that would be cool, like those old audiotapes with the instructions in Mission: Impossible. :P
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by Sima Tuna »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
I honestly don't want to upgrade as I'm perfectly happy with Windows 7 and my PC as is, but the loss of Steam support risks killing access to a half a dozen games I play, which will be quite obnoxious.
Fuck 'em. I tend to buy games rather than emulate, but I have my Windows 7 computer and I like it. It runs fine, doesn't spam me with malware/adware and doesn't spy on me. So if my choices are updating to Windows 10 or losing access to Steam, goodbye Steam! Steam will be there if I ever get a different computer that runs Windows 10, and if I'm unable or unwilling to install windows 7 on it.

My advice would be to pirate everything you currently play on Steam and play those versions instead. If it's a live service type of game then you obviously can't and that sucks. But I don't know a solution to that problem.

Whenever I get back into gaming on my PC, I'm planning to go max level piracy mode. Buying games on platforms like Steam isn't worth it when they treat consumers this way. Not that consoles are much better, but at least physical copies of games still work and most console storefronts (so far) will allow you to redownload purchased games to old consoles even after the online store has closed.

But who knows what will happen in the future? Piracy/emulation is the only safeguard we have to protect our hobby from people who want to turn games into a subscription service/ongoing payment model and remove our ownership.
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

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Steven wrote:Beelzebub is one of the hardest bosses in the game along with Red Rider, who is by far the hardest (Antichthon -> Antichthon -> Antichthon, whether you resist fire or not) unless you count the DLC. There are specific sidequests that you have to do to finish the neutral route and ones that you can ignore, and I think you do not have to fight Beelzebub, so feel free to skip him in that case. I don't remember the actual required ones, especially since I just did everything, but there should be some information on GameFAQs somewhere.
I'm more concerned with how the hell i was supposed to guess the name of the thing to proceed the main path in neutral.
seriously.. i'm mad that i had to look it up
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by Steven »

Blinge wrote:
Steven wrote:Beelzebub is one of the hardest bosses in the game along with Red Rider, who is by far the hardest (Antichthon -> Antichthon -> Antichthon, whether you resist fire or not) unless you count the DLC. There are specific sidequests that you have to do to finish the neutral route and ones that you can ignore, and I think you do not have to fight Beelzebub, so feel free to skip him in that case. I don't remember the actual required ones, especially since I just did everything, but there should be some information on GameFAQs somewhere.
I'm more concerned with how the hell i was supposed to guess the name of the thing to proceed the main path in neutral.
seriously.. i'm mad that i had to look it up
I don't remember having to do anything like that and I have done 8 playthroughs of the game with 3 neutral playthroughs, though it has been a while.
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

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cfx wrote:That reminded me of DIVX. Not the codec, but that short-lived thing that was a DVD-like disc that self-destructed after a certain amount of time, or however it worked.
Youtubers like to make lots of videos about Flexplay, their slightly more successful little brother. It's so evil, just imagine how fast the oceans would fill up with that garbage and we'd have to start launching those discs into the sun at ludicrous cost.

Which of course reminds me of the Budd Company, who went in the exact opposite direction. They made steel parts; mainly famous for making really good train cars that didn't wear out and break. They were so successful, that they went out of business for having a product that was too high-quality. Once you have a thing, you don't need that thing.

The really sick part of their story, is that we still need new train cars from time to time. When that happens, we outsource it to some company abroad. And... often they'll use Budd Company blueprints to do so. The profit motive sure is beautiful.

It kind of points out how none of the traditional SMT endings are "good". The "neutral" path is auth capitalism, so that'd just lead to the kings of humanity turning into the gods of a new age. (The robot angels, cannibal devils, Mara, and the like are fitting forms for most of them. It's the fey and kitties that don't really mesh well with our current reality. All the hippies would be devoured in five nanoseconds.)

The "wish the horrible monsters and nightmarish magic away" kind of endings don't really fit the theme, imo. It's like a Lion/Witch/Wardrobe ending where they go back to England and nothing ever happened. If nothing ever happened and it was just a bad acid trip, what was the point?
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

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Steven wrote: I don't remember having to do anything like that and I have done 8 playthroughs of the game with 3 neutral playthroughs, though it has been a while.
Fat spoilers:

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A text prompt appears and you have to type in Masakado
a name i swear i've never heard. is it an SMT3 reference?
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

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He's a recurring demon since the early days. Always around level 80, almost but not quite the top. Since he's usually another generic samurai guy with a sword, he doesn't stick in the mind like a radiant Amaterasu does.

... I had to cheat and look him up. It seems like he's just a story character in the mainline games 1-3, but appears as a playable unit in almost all of the spinoffs. Survivor, if, Q, Persona, etc. I remember using him briefly in Strange Journey. Very briefly.



... here's one of Amaterasu's pics on her wikipedia page. By that level, a Sammy Sword Guy only stands out by how out of place they are.

... this is kind of like playing a gacha game and getting a new character, and you stare at the new character and wonder.... who the hell is this guy? Who on earth? Did the game glitch out and gave me a character from a different game, somehow..?

Masakado was literally a swordguy wearing a sack for SJ. He was doing a better job standing out back when he was a severed head!
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by BIL »

To make a swordbro stand out, they need a striking motif, like that crazy butt-naked motherfucker hanging around Dark Souls III's earlygame - now that's a set of iron-hard, battle-scarred cheeks you're not like to forget any time soon! When a man is in such bad straits he can barely cover his own asshole, you know it's kill or be killed!

Or Ninja Spirit's Ochimusha / Ghosts of Fugitive Warriors, who as befits their namesake, are lumbering undead juggernauts covered in mortal wounds, topknots in disarray, wielding a monstrous nodachi with an inescapable force like to split that Sephiroth twink in half from boipuccui to brainstem while he's choosing his next sleep aid, I mean attack!

Or just make a floating accursed sword with a ravenous thirst for blood that'll murder its owner if not kept sated, that's a good budget move! Saves on modeling a wielder Image
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by BryanM »

Things definitely need to be more extreme to leave an impression if they have a small amount of screen time.

That's a megaten design rule: normal humans with lots of screen time are rather reserved and grounded. While the demons have all the zazz and extreme hardcore nudity. Even in Persona, which is more arty-farty in a flashy way, more "anime".. its characters tend to have normal colored hair. Instead of throwing the whole rainbow at you with the cast. (I always have to mention Tactics Ogre's fantasy art that's only a little embellished whenever this topic comes up.)

The minor NPC background teachers are always total nutjobs in those games. Walking around dressed like an Pharaoh, or holding a puppet. In Persona 3, the samurai-helmet wearing teacher namedrops Masakado, but without context it's a moment that comes and passes in an instant.

This is also why Strega looks like a bunch of cardboard cutout weirdos. If they were normal humans, the player would be like "who are these people?" every time they came on screen.


(An addendum: the other day someone was saying the Junpei+Chidori matchup seemed forced, and I was like... how could you think that. Chidori was a lab rat with very little time left to live. And did you see what the only two men in her life are like? (One is in love with murder, while the other's in love with the other.) While Junpei is Junpei. A devout Magician boy. Their options were limited.)
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by cj iwakura »

It's a shame Strega had no threatening impact in battle, like, at all. Imagine fighting them all at once and they work as a well-oiled team with knockdowns and all-out attacks, the works.
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by BryanM »

Yeah, but then they'd be less narrative compliant and less unique. They'd evoke much fewer emotions if they were a video game boss: emotions like pity, annoyance, etc. It's a game that likes to remind you that it's about death. (And telling small children that it's their fault that their parents are getting a divorce.)

If they were a fight, it'd be a pale imitation of the Persona 2 Eternal Punishment fight where you fight a trio of clones of the characters from the prequel game. Tough and very iconic battle.

From the sheer quantity of games they pump out and the similar/identical monsters they use, it's inevitable they recycle old ideas. Going against the Ouroboros in Strange Journey with its regenerating life effect made me go "Hey! This sure seems familiar.."

At least Atlus is nice enough to show the healing on screen. Dragon Warrior 3 (and probably other games in that series) monsters that have passive regeneration don't mention it at all, and if your damage output is low for whatever reason the battle can go on for a looooong time, or be outright unwinnable.
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

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Would've much preferred them to be a climactic boss.
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by cj iwakura »

Blinge wrote:Would've much preferred them to be a climactic boss.
Yeah, they would have been a good climactic battle at the top of Tartarus prior to Nyx.
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

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It occurs to me, Persona games occasionally have you fight enemy Persona-users, and they're a change from the demons & shadows that make up the bulk of fights since they're like YOU. Likewise, SMT and Devil Summoner games occasionally have their player characters go up against their opposite numbers: enemy devil summoners. But Atlus never crossed the streams, did they? Never had the player as a Persona-user pitted against a devil summoner or vice versa. Even in supplemental media, it seems like the only time it's happened was in the Devil Summoner live-action series (CJ's subs haven't reached that ep tho :mrgreen:)
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Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread

Post by cj iwakura »

Mortificator wrote:It occurs to me, Persona games occasionally have you fight enemy Persona-users, and they're a change from the demons & shadows that make up the bulk of fights since they're like YOU. Likewise, SMT and Devil Summoner games occasionally have their player characters go up against their opposite numbers: enemy devil summoners. But Atlus never crossed the streams, did they? Never had the player as a Persona-user pitted against a devil summoner or vice versa. Even in supplemental media, it seems like the only time it's happened was in the Devil Summoner live-action series (CJ's subs haven't reached that ep tho :mrgreen:)
Sort of, JOKER(Sudou)'s described as a Devil Summoner in P2:EP, that's why he's so powerful. There's also Tamaki, though she's an ally.
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