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 Post subject: Re: Bayonetta (PS3/360)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:02 am 


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I'm not sure Bayonetta is God Hand's spiritual sequel.


It's not..... it's Devil May Cry's spiritual sequel.

I really hope Bayanetta gets a sequel though.
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 Post subject: Re: Bayonetta (PS3/360)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:13 am 


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CMoon wrote:
I'm not sure Bayonetta is God Hand's spiritual sequel. I was hoping for it, but I don't think that's the case. Honestly, I don't think we've seen anything resembling a sequel ('spiritual' or otherwise) yet.


Ah right, I must have misunderstood something there then. I thought the two games were closely related, although I'd agree with Strider on the DMC similarities.

This is awesome: :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyfbtSyX3mc

I didn't even know you could do some of those moves (!)
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 Post subject: Re: Bayonetta (PS3/360)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:05 am 


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God Hand isn't a button masher at all. It has more in common with two first Onimusha games (which were button mashers alright, and allowed you to block) than with DMC.
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 Post subject: Re: Bayonetta (PS3/360)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:30 pm 



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Skykid wrote:
This is awesome: :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyfbtSyX3mc

I didn't even know you could do some of those moves (!)
That's just with the stock move set, too. There are tons of other moves that you can buy/obtain.


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 Post subject: Re: Bayonetta (PS3/360)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:24 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
This is awesome: :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyfbtSyX3mc

I didn't even know you could do some of those moves (!)


The only word of caution--some of those moves are only possible when the enemy is already dead or the game is on easy. Enemies tend to flip out of juggles if they can, but that video still highlights some good techniques--most fundamental being the ability to cancel animation (much like street fighter).
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 Post subject: Re: Bayonetta (PS3/360)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:58 pm 


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CMoon wrote:
Skykid wrote:
This is awesome: :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyfbtSyX3mc

I didn't even know you could do some of those moves (!)


The only word of caution--some of those moves are only possible when the enemy is already dead or the game is on easy. Enemies tend to flip out of juggles if they can, but that video still highlights some good techniques--most fundamental being the ability to cancel animation (much like street fighter).


Right, you mean the finishing moves (by pressing circle when they're near dead?). It's only stage one, and so far for me the enemies normally don't manage to flip out of juggles (on normal) but I'm sure they'll become more adept later on. I just want to know how to do that scissor kick where he slams them into the floor and sends them skyward for further juggling. I'll play some more when I get back tonight. :)
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 Post subject: Re: Bayonetta (PS3/360)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:17 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
I just want to know how to do that scissor kick where he slams them into the floor and sends them skyward for further juggling.


One of the menus shows all the moves assigned to your character. You can also assign new moves you just bought, but frankly the stock moveset is very good already. The overhead chop you start with is the best guard breaker move in the game.

Played the hell out of this game back in the day and loved every minute of it. One of the best games for PS2.
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 Post subject: Re: Bayonetta (PS3/360)
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:36 pm 


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Actually the menu does not show all the moves. Sorry to say, but you gotta read the manual (or read faqs.)

All the moves in question are with triangle:

-duck (forward on the right analog stick) + triangle = Sweep

All other moves with left analog stick:

-Forward + triangle near downed opponent = Heel Drop (the scissors kick you are talking about)
-Hit triangle again to juggle

-Away + triangle near juggled opponent = dragon punch

-Forward + triangle near juggled opponent = mid-air roundhouse kick (this is actually one of the best moves in the game.)

None of these moves can be changed throughout the game, and fortunately they're great moves!

What I was trying to point out was that unless opponents are dead, you can't keep them juggled for very long. They will quickly find a way out of it (though level 1 may be an exception.)

Anyway, I've run into a few players who didn't know these moves (or stick cancelling) existed, which is kind of odd, since they are really critical to doing well on the game. True, they are listed in the manual, but so much else is listed in the menu it is easy to miss these.

There are a ton of play styles you can work on. I like Yes Mam Kablam! because it builds up your god hand, but if you are going to favor that move, you have to build a strategy around it because it is hard to land (hehe chain yanker), but there's tons of other strategies to work on; invent your own already! Don't forget that this is one of the only non-shmups I know where rank management is a valid option (if you don't want to play in DIE! all the time), or as Randorama says, 'Rise to the level of the challenge'.

Last, you can experiment with all the moves for FREE in the Arena (or whatever it is called.) A few of the moves count as mid-dodges, and can be exploited if your smart.

Oh, last thing: Consider restarting levels instead of using continues. Most important--every time you use a continue, it subtracts dramatically from how much money you get at the end of the level. But it's also worth adding that you'll never get really good if you use continues. But you post on the SHMUP forum, you already knew that.

Goddamn, all I want for Christmas is God Hand 2.
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 Post subject: Re: Bayonetta (PS3/360)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:04 am 


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This game has now sold about 1.35 million worldwide. Does that make it a hit?
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 Post subject: Re: Bayonetta (PS3/360)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:50 pm 


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11 year bump!

Since I am a wee bit obsessed with Bayonetta presently, and I've nowhere else better suited to post this stuff, here's a brief infodump of content for potentially interested folks:

Now that Bayonetta's out on multiple consoles, the best version is either the PC version due to the ability to play with graphical mods as well as remap controls and setup external autofire via JoyToKey, or the WiiU/Switch versions, due to extra Nintendo exclusive content such as a costume that has built in Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa. The PS3 version is the only one that's probably "bad" in the sense that it sometimes has serious load times. I grew up on the XB360 version which ran pretty well when installed to the hard drive.

I highly recommend the PC version. Steam supports custom controller remapping via the admittedly clunky Big Picture interface. I've done most of my recent major runs except one (where I deliberately played as though I were on the XBox 360 version) with lock on remapped to LT/L2 and weapon swap to RB/R1. I much prefer LT for lock on as I can hold it with left index finger and use right index finger to mash dodge. Some people may even want dodge on RB/R1, which the PC version allows for. Sadly, the game does not support in-game remapping of controller. It does however support keyboard and mouse remapping which is especially obnoxious that you can remap one and not the other in-game. :/


AUTOFIRE: Spare your fingers!

The PC version also conveniently accepts both controller inputs and keyboard/mouse inputs at the same time (unlike some other games like EDF 4.1). This means that you can use JoyToKey to have certain controller buttons send keyboard/mouse inputs to automatically button mash for you. This is a nice quality of life improvement for Torture Attacks, but it especially makes the button mashy minigame chapters much more bearable (Route 666, Isla Del Sol, Tower to Truth's cannon segment). It is not enjoyable or rewarding to have to play these via button mashing and I highly recommend setting up rapid fire to deal with these, as they all have an aggravatingly low default fire rate if you simply hold fire.

It also makes it possible to win otherwise impossible QTEs that simply require an absurdly fast mash rate to win. This isn't a massive game breaker, but taking advantage of this does make it easier so feel free to use it or not. The Fairness & Fearless QTE is very difficult to max out for the bonus, but there's no penalty for failing to do so. However, the Jeanne fights in the two highest difficulty mode register as a failure for anything other than a full bar. It is generally considered impossible to win by humanly achievable mashing speeds, and the way to normally Pure Platinum any fight with her is to ignore the QTE prompt and dodge away from her when it appears. With autofire support, you can actually win these for a change for fun. Feel free to take advantage of this, or don't. Bayonetta is the sort of game where you have a frankly ton of incredibly powerful attacks and abilities at your disposal, given to you early on, and you can make the game as easy or as hard as you want (Onyx Roses' charge modifier damage, Shuraba's PKP and Tetsuzanko, Fire Durga's high level bomb damage, Pulley's Butterfly's invulnerability, Evil Harvest Rosary's auto attack on dodge).

Being able to send keyboard/mouse inputs while also using a controller gives you another convenient tool in the PC version not available elsewhere. The special technique Umbran Spear costs 1 small magic orb and causes you to instantly rush to the enemy, and can be used in the ground and in the air. The input requires you to double-tap the Lock On button. Normally, this means you have to break your current lock, and if there are multiple enemies around, it will forcibly retarget the closest enemy. This means that if you knock an enemy across the map, you can't Umbran Spear across to them if there are other enemies nearby. In the PC version however, the game will register Umbran Spear's input on keyboard while you're holding the controller's lock on button. This means you can use Umbran Spear to rush your current target regardless of their distance and your proximity to other enemies, even if they're at the other end of the map (from being blasted away by a Wicked Weave for instance). Umbran Spear is not a serious game breaker or even terribly practical for really serious fights such as bosses, and mostly sees use in combo videos. Still, it's nice to be able to use it without breaking lock ons. I also prefer Umbran Spear to Stiletto and Heel Slide, which I generally leave off (so as not to use them by accident when trying to parry, causing me to glide across the map accidentally).

Some QTEs will not register correctly if you're using an autofire rate that's too high. I use a value that I've tested as "safe" for use with all QTEs in the game that will still win all QTEs, specifically set to 12 times per second in JoyToKey. This is obviously far faster than humanly possible, but helps blast through Isla Del Sol and the cannon minigame in the later part of the game so you can get back to the actual beat 'em up fun. The controls I use on an XBox 360 controller are:

LT (remapped to Lock On) + X (Shoot) = rapid Shoot

D-Pad Left = rapid Lock On (for Umbran Spear without breaking lock)

D-Pad Right + X (Shoot) / Y (Punch) / B (Kick) = rapid fire the appropriate button, for winning QTEs

(obviously, using the D-Pad as a shortcut means I do not have any items equipped to the quick-use slots, you can't use lollipops if you're going for Pure Platinums anyways)


HOW DO I WIN?!

You don't need a comprehensive bestiary and highly optimized techniques to win fights. Good fundamentals make a huge difference.

1) Don't button mash. Can't stress this enough. Bayonetta's basic hits deal low damage and don't stagger anywhere near as well as in Devil May Cry or God Hand, etc. The punch and kick flurry combos (PPPPP and PPPPK) are generally the worst way of attacking high-tier targets, aside from the giant Auditio bosses where Bayo lets her hair down and has Wicked Weaves on every hit.

2) Use Charge Modifiers constantly (hold the punch or kick button every time you press it until you see the weapon fire). This makes a tremendous difference for weapons like the shotguns. Even if you don't know the combos, just use the shotguns or claws and hold the attack buttons you press until you see the blasts! Much of your damage in the game can come from Charge Modifiers.

3) Learn some basic combos! At the top of every combo list is the fastest combo that ends in a Wicked Weave, Punch Kick Punch. It's super effective against nearly everything. While modern releases of Bayonetta load so fast that you don't get the prompt, loading screens can still be paused by pressing the Inventory Menu button to enter Combo Practice mode where you can see a combo list on the right (don't accidentally hide it by hitting the D-Pad). Combos are also listed and explained in detail for all weapon combinations in the appropriate book under the File Menu. Punch Kick Punch is listed at the top of every list as a universal combo for all weapons. Even if you don't memorize combos, this one is an effective bread and butter combo, especially if you charge each hit as you attack to fire lots of shots, ending on a punch weave.

4) Dodge offset! You start the game with this special technique that allows you to dodge without dropping your current combo. You can even offset your combo with Panther Within, and a few other more difficult to do reliably ways like Umbran Spear offset. Dodge offset sadly has no explicit in-game tutorial, but is detailed both in the game manual, and in-game under the File menu's list of Special Techniques. The explanation in-game is detailed and makes it easy to learn. Just practice and get in the habit of using it, and you'll find it easy to blast through enemies even while under relentless attack.

5) Panthering away from an enemy to gain some distance is a good idea if you're surrounded. Most of Bayonetta's best attacks are longer ranged and don't require her to hit with her basic melee strings. Doing combos at a distance to fire the guns and hit only with bullets or Wicked Weaves is a safe way of dealing with enemies.

6) Pulley's Butterfly is the single most powerful accessory in the game for avoiding damage. It takes a lot of practice to use though, as you need to learn how to manage its magic drain, how to refill your magic, and so on. Taunting is very helpful, as are rapid magic filling attacks like Afterburner Kick.

7) You can quick skip cutscenes without pausing and then manually selecting skip. Just hold Dodge (RT) and press the Inventory Menu button (Back). Don't ask me why this is a two button input (when it's a single button in later games like Vanquish).


VIDEOS (Spoilery content, beware!)

The thing I normally focus my time on tends to be the lengthy bonus chapter (akin to Bloody Palace in the DMC games) and beating up the secret superboss. No story-related gimmicks, just pure combat at its best. There's also multiple characters you can unlock and play as. Unlock requirements are as follows (names omitted to avoid spoiling):

Spoiler: show
Superboss: acquire 10 million halos in total (includes halos spent), a new item will appear in the shop that lets you fight the superboss of the game

Secret/bonus chapter: find and clear every Alfheim in the game, easiest to do this in Normal mode

Secret Character 1: Get a Platinum or above on every chapter in Normal difficulty. Doesn't have to be every single Verse, you just need your overall average in each Chapter to be Platinum. Must be done on Normal difficulty.

Secret Character 2: Beat the secret/bonus chapter.


Here's a bunch of Pure Platinum clears of the superboss:

Superboss beaten with Secret Character 2, no Pulley's Butterfly shielding

Superboss beaten with Secret Character 2 while using Gaze of Despair to keep the superboss perpetually enraged

Superboss beaten with Bayonetta, Handguns only (no Wicked Weaves)

An older Handguns only run as Bayonetta, not quite a Pure Platinum but kept it around because the ending was hilarious.

Superboss beaten with Secret Character 1

My first ever Pure Plat of the Superboss, was so stoked the first time I got this


Pure Platinum clears of the secret chapter. These are what I'm most proud of in terms of achievement:

First ever Pure Platinum clear as Bayonetta, doesn't use autofire I think?

Secret Character 1 run, no autofire, by far the easiest character to Pure Plat largely because that extra Wicked Weave damage tears up the hardest fights here

Pure Plat with Secret Character 2, used autofire this time. By far the hardest character to use because of a quirk that interferes with Pulley's Butterfly. It's still the best accessory to use, but this character is far less effective with it.

No Autofire, No Controller remapping (as if I were playing on the XB360 ver), done with Secret Character 2. This is my single greatest Bayonetta video on Youtube, and the one I'm tempted to reupload with annotations as a how-to guide for getting a Pure Platinum in the secret chapter.


Other weird and amusing stuff:

Enemy sends me hurtling through the map, forces a softlock of the game (only time I've seen this happen in years of playing Bayonetta O_o)

Feather ring goes on an epic journey

Sousaphone somehow misses 7 enemies in a row ._.

Also, while I've done stuff like Pure Plat all the story missions on the hardest difficulty (livestreamed on Twitch), plenty of other people have already uploaded Pure Platinum clears of the story missions as it is. Getting Pure Plats in the story missions is made much more manageable when you realize you can quit to Title Screen and then Continue to reset a fight if you take damage, something you can't do in the secret chapter at all (gotta play the entire hour or so without ever getting hit). There's still a lot of tough segments, especially considering you also gotta nail the Platinum requirements for combo and time (some of which are quite strict). It's a lot of editing to cut out all the restarts mid-chapter, so I'm unlikely to ever upload a Pure Platinum run of the story mode, sorry. ^^; For a PP run of the story mode at the hardest difficulty, I recommend watching Iconoclast's playthrough.
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 Post subject: Re: Bayonetta (PS3/360)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:06 pm 


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Awesome Bumpnetta! Subscribed to this topic, though I feel we need a character action thread around here. There's just so much to talk about these games and Bayonetta could use some help from Ryu, Gene, Dante, etc.

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
the Jeanne fights in the two highest difficulty mode register as a failure for anything other than a full bar. It is generally considered impossible to win by humanly achievable mashing speeds, and the way to normally Pure Platinum any fight with her is to ignore the QTE prompt and dodge away from her when it appears.

I learned this very quickly. :lol: Glad to know I'm not just too slow.

Also, congrats on that No Pulley's Butterfly Rodin win. Haven't had much time for games, but I managed to squeeze an hour out for Bayonetta yesterday. I rocked those butterflies on your recommendation and I'm learning how to make the best of them. They drain the magic gauge quite fast which makes them less overpowered than I initially thought. Visibility is definitely a problem, but at least you get a big poof effect once they're all gone. The best part is that they end up being another tool to always keep you on the offensive and encourage you to NEVER STOP DANCING!

More as it develops.


Last edited by Searchlike on Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bayonetta (PS3/360)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:26 pm 


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Thanks, glad to hear you're rocking the butterflies! They are very powerful, and arguably the best accessory for general use in getting Pure Platinums, but using them requires a lot of practice and finesse, learning how many butterflies each attack costs, etc. You can control the magic drain by purposefully letting butterflies get popped or by summoning fewer butterflies (equip Infernal Communicator + Pulley's, summon, then unequip Infernal Communicator, you'll be left with 2 butterflies). Having only 1 or 2 butterflies drastically reduces the drain speed of the magic meter, while still providing a free shielding hit. Knowing what moves also build magic quickly helps too (Afterburner kick, kick launcher spins, punch and kick flurries, etc).

The best Bayonetta player as far as I'm concerned is Ermillion, who got a Pure Platinum of Rodin using only the non-Wicked Weave Handguns, with Gaze of Despair equipped to keep Rodin enraged, and all while staying in midair throughout the fight (which means no Pulley's Butterfly, since you can't activate it midair). Vid's here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhBS9oYAAII
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 Post subject: Re: Bayonetta (PS3/360)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:22 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
The best Bayonetta player as far as I'm concerned is Ermillion, who got a Pure Platinum of Rodin using only the non-Wicked Weave Handguns, with Gaze of Despair equipped to keep Rodin enraged, and all while staying in midair throughout the fight (which means no Pulley's Butterfly, since you can't activate it midair). Vid's here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhBS9oYAAII


Kamiya needs to see this, but I'm pretty sure Pulley's Butterfly won't stop him from blocking me so I won't tweet at him.


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 Post subject: Re: Bayonetta (PS3/360)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:37 pm 


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:lol:

There's actually 3 things in the game (that I know of) that can bypass Pulley's Butterfly, ignoring it completely and dealing damage through the shield without affecting the shield at all: failing Jeanne's QTE (one of them you can actually parry with the Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa on a failure, I can't remember if it's her punch QTE or kick QTE), getting punched if you're still on the platform when the first of the two cannons get destroyed in the tower chapter, or the bite attack that Dears use, the little floating head enemies that otherwise die very quickly to basic gunshots.
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 Post subject: Re: Bayonetta (PS3/360)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:47 pm 


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OK, those are some very specific/random situations, intended design? :?


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