Anyone know? This was one of my favorite NES games. And yes, I know about the Game Boy one.
-Gabe
Why no Kid Icarus sequels?
When doing Metroid Prime, an interviewer asked Miyamoto if Nintendo was going to resurrect Kid Icarus too.
I remember he replied something like "Never say never... perhaps if fans demand it a lot".
But I don't think he was serious. Kid Icarus might have potential as a character, but they should find a winning formula to make good use of it. Just like the sticked the Metroid brand to an fps, basically.
But who knows... Gone but not forgotten!
I remember he replied something like "Never say never... perhaps if fans demand it a lot".
But I don't think he was serious. Kid Icarus might have potential as a character, but they should find a winning formula to make good use of it. Just like the sticked the Metroid brand to an fps, basically.
But who knows... Gone but not forgotten!
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ArrogantBastard
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If I remember correctly, wasn't it Denis Dyack from Silicon Knights who said something about showing his interest in doing a sequel or a remake for Kid Icarus?Turrican wrote:When doing Metroid Prime, an interviewer asked Miyamoto if Nintendo was going to resurrect Kid Icarus too.
I remember he replied something like "Never say never... perhaps if fans demand it a lot".
But I don't think he was serious. Kid Icarus might have potential as a character, but they should find a winning formula to make good use of it. Just like the sticked the Metroid brand to an fps, basically.
But who knows... Gone but not forgotten!
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Nuke
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Kid Icarus > Metroid
....there, I've said it.
....there, I've said it.
Trek trough the Galaxy on silver wings and play football online.
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Nuke
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Tsk, tsk. Youngsters these days. No respect for the games which defined whole generes.
Next youll be calling Super Mario Brothers sucky
Btw, no Metroid/Kid Icarus=No Symphony of the night/Aria of Sorrow.
Next youll be calling Super Mario Brothers sucky
Btw, no Metroid/Kid Icarus=No Symphony of the night/Aria of Sorrow.
Trek trough the Galaxy on silver wings and play football online.
i think the real reason kid icarus is better than metroid is that the dungeons/fortress levels in Kid Icarus are designed so you can actually find your way through them! Metroid's hideouts are CRAZY. have you played that game recently? it's so hard to find your way around because every room LOOKS THE SAME. i mean they're the same exact design. and then they end up being HUGE. kid icarus had a lot more variety in those rooms, and made it a lot less frustrating to get through them.
but the eggplant wizard was a pain in the ass.
but the eggplant wizard was a pain in the ass.
Nope. Super Mario Brothers is a fantastic game. It's held up amazingly well. The original Metroid hasn't.Nuke wrote:Tsk, tsk. Youngsters these days. No respect for the games which defined whole generes.
Next youll be calling Super Mario Brothers sucky
And youngster? Knock it off. I used to love Metroid when it came out, and it was one of my favorite games on the NES. That doesn't mean it's aged well... it hasn't. The game is absolutely full of bugs, the repeating corridors get dull rather quickly, and the pacing is pretty terrible (starting you off with 30 energy whenever you use a password was a HORRIBLE idea). You can tell it was oriignally released on a system that allowed saving. Finding secrets consisted entirely of bombing absolutely everywhere with no rhyme or reason. And so on. There were much better NES games, even though I love what came from Metroid.
So? No Pitfall = no Super Mario Brothers, but that doesn't mean Pitfall is still fun to play today for more than a couple minutes. And without the laser graphics used in Laser Blast, Pitfall couldn't have been made (the lasers in Laser Blast were the foundation for the vines in Pitfall). But Laser Blast sucks, full stop.Btw, no Metroid/Kid Icarus=No Symphony of the night/Aria of Sorrow.
Metroid was a good blueprint. Metroid II was the game that really did something with it.
And obviously, this is all IMO. I just don't like typing that after every line.
Re: Why no Kid Icarus sequels?
Kid Icarus is indeed better than the original Metroid.
95% of NES Metroid is climbing up endless blue vertical shafts, climbing down endless gold vertical shafts, and grinding on endless tiny harmless insects to refill your life. It did a really good job of creating an atmosphere (a point upon which Other M diverges very far from, and why that's such a risible game), and was easy enough for anyone to play it.
Kid Icarus goes in the exact opposite direction. A game for cool guys who are good at playing video games.
As has been pointed out constantly, the difficulty curve in the game is all fucked up, upside down. The hardest levels are the first ones. The easiest ones are the last ones. You can kill the final boss by hovering in one place and mashing the shoot button.
There are a number of very obvious reasons for this:
That Fuckin' Health Bar
At the start of the game, you have almost no HP. Did you know... that the first health cube is actually INFERIOR to the subsequent health boxes you gain? 7 hp instead of 8? So when you get your first stamina upgrade, you MORE THAN DOUBLE YOUR LIFE BAR.
The first level up is an enormous power boost and a total bitch to get - you have to grind EXP a bit to get it by the end of 1-2. Which increases the chance of dying. Because you have almost no fuckin' health.
It would make much more sense if the base life were HIGHER than the life upgrades, right?
Those Fuckin' Pits
I can understand why they didn't want downward scrolling: so you couldn't get infinite EXP. The limitations of the NES probably made it impossible to count the spawn number of every enemy formation in a level. That makes sense.
But instant death from an errant upward scroll or button press is very different here than in Super Mario Brothers. The levels in SMB are tiny. And they have MIDPOINTS you respawn at. You only lose 30 to 40 seconds of your life, tops. Kid Icarus? Goodbye, 3 to 7 minutes.
The little fat fucker has wings. By default, he should be able to use them. At least once a stage.
That Fuckin' Level Length
The levels are really, really fuckin' long.
Stage 1-1 is just as long and difficult as 3-1, 3-2, and 3-3. Except you have less than a third as much life. Fuckin' have a heart, game devs.
Those One Tile Platforms
One tile jumps appear only at the end tail of Super Mario Brothers. A game with much less inertia in its jump physics. Kid Icarus? You're doing that shit stage 1, bitch. Repeatedly. About a dozen times.
SMB gives you a respawn point at the middle of its stages. Kid Icarus gives you a gauntlet of 1 tile wide jumps. You're welcome. :-)
Playing it just now, it left me yelling out "son of a whore!" and "fuck you, Kid Icarus!" Due to all the bullshit things the game did to me, you see. [2] This is probably the only game Nintendo made that makes me feel this way - the rest either put me into a comfortable biorhythm where I'm free to think about other things, or into a coma for being far easier than pouring a glass of milk. There's just no way they'd make a game like this these days.
So Kid Icarus is a decent game with a sociopathic difficulty balance. It is cute how there's a story theme of Pit breaking out of prison in the underworld, weakened, and then makes his way to the heavens. It's nice that you have to stay awake and actively try to win. The variety of enemies just blows SMB and Metroid [1] away. There's upsides.
But it should have been a much better game. Could have been a much stronger entry to the pantheon of platformer RPGs. Did Nintendo even seriously try to make more of these after Kid Icarus's sequel, Zelda 2?
[1] The final boss of Metroid is an infinitely respawning swarm of Cheerios. Think about it.
[2] I am not a cool guy.
95% of NES Metroid is climbing up endless blue vertical shafts, climbing down endless gold vertical shafts, and grinding on endless tiny harmless insects to refill your life. It did a really good job of creating an atmosphere (a point upon which Other M diverges very far from, and why that's such a risible game), and was easy enough for anyone to play it.
Kid Icarus goes in the exact opposite direction. A game for cool guys who are good at playing video games.
As has been pointed out constantly, the difficulty curve in the game is all fucked up, upside down. The hardest levels are the first ones. The easiest ones are the last ones. You can kill the final boss by hovering in one place and mashing the shoot button.
There are a number of very obvious reasons for this:
That Fuckin' Health Bar
At the start of the game, you have almost no HP. Did you know... that the first health cube is actually INFERIOR to the subsequent health boxes you gain? 7 hp instead of 8? So when you get your first stamina upgrade, you MORE THAN DOUBLE YOUR LIFE BAR.
The first level up is an enormous power boost and a total bitch to get - you have to grind EXP a bit to get it by the end of 1-2. Which increases the chance of dying. Because you have almost no fuckin' health.
It would make much more sense if the base life were HIGHER than the life upgrades, right?
Those Fuckin' Pits
I can understand why they didn't want downward scrolling: so you couldn't get infinite EXP. The limitations of the NES probably made it impossible to count the spawn number of every enemy formation in a level. That makes sense.
But instant death from an errant upward scroll or button press is very different here than in Super Mario Brothers. The levels in SMB are tiny. And they have MIDPOINTS you respawn at. You only lose 30 to 40 seconds of your life, tops. Kid Icarus? Goodbye, 3 to 7 minutes.
The little fat fucker has wings. By default, he should be able to use them. At least once a stage.
That Fuckin' Level Length
The levels are really, really fuckin' long.
Stage 1-1 is just as long and difficult as 3-1, 3-2, and 3-3. Except you have less than a third as much life. Fuckin' have a heart, game devs.
Those One Tile Platforms
One tile jumps appear only at the end tail of Super Mario Brothers. A game with much less inertia in its jump physics. Kid Icarus? You're doing that shit stage 1, bitch. Repeatedly. About a dozen times.
SMB gives you a respawn point at the middle of its stages. Kid Icarus gives you a gauntlet of 1 tile wide jumps. You're welcome. :-)
Playing it just now, it left me yelling out "son of a whore!" and "fuck you, Kid Icarus!" Due to all the bullshit things the game did to me, you see. [2] This is probably the only game Nintendo made that makes me feel this way - the rest either put me into a comfortable biorhythm where I'm free to think about other things, or into a coma for being far easier than pouring a glass of milk. There's just no way they'd make a game like this these days.
So Kid Icarus is a decent game with a sociopathic difficulty balance. It is cute how there's a story theme of Pit breaking out of prison in the underworld, weakened, and then makes his way to the heavens. It's nice that you have to stay awake and actively try to win. The variety of enemies just blows SMB and Metroid [1] away. There's upsides.
But it should have been a much better game. Could have been a much stronger entry to the pantheon of platformer RPGs. Did Nintendo even seriously try to make more of these after Kid Icarus's sequel, Zelda 2?
[1] The final boss of Metroid is an infinitely respawning swarm of Cheerios. Think about it.
[2] I am not a cool guy.
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GaijinPunch
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Re: Why no Kid Icarus sequels?
Actually it's not.BryanM wrote:Kid Icarus is indeed better than the original Metroid.
RegalSin wrote:New PowerPuff Girls. They all have evil pornstart eyelashes.
Re: Why no Kid Icarus sequels?
VERY THOUGHTFUL. THANK YOU FOR YOUR INSIGHT.GaijinPunch wrote:Actually it's not.BryanM wrote:Kid Icarus is indeed better than the original Metroid.
But actually, you are completely wrong.
Last edited by BryanM on Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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EmperorIng
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Re: Why no Kid Icarus sequels?
Hoo quite the bump. Hot opinions!
I kinda like the GB Kid Icarus, though it alternates between linear levels (with downward scrolling, so no more deaths by pit... for Pit); however its labyrinth boss levels are somewhat meandering and boss health felt upped way too much, dragging out the simple fights.
The less stiff controls made it feel a bit more enjoyable than the original, though I never finished either.
The jumping controls in the original Kid Icarus were maddening. In modern internet parlance, the game trolls you so fucking hard with its weird jumping + glut of 1tile jumping.
Ninty-developed games in the NES/GB era are (almost) rightly seen as legendary,* at least in terms of expecting a certain degree of intelligence and competence from its players that would not be present in their design in later games (as they began to focus on easier, more "atmospheric" games).
===
In Metroid 1's defense: while we all have complained about farming for health from bug spawns, after a run or two, you realize that the easiest way to refill your health is to get an energy tank, which gives you more life AND refills all of your health. They are placed - a few in each area - to act as almost a recharge while you make your way deeper into the game. A smart player leaves the e-tank right at the beginning of the game as a final health boost before Tourian.
Similarly with missiles: killing either Ridley or Kraid awards you with an extra 75 missiles! And respawning Metroids in Tourian either leave 30 health pickups, or 25 missile pickups (or nothing, if you are shit out of luck). A smart player is never left without resources, except if you die in Tourian, meaning you have to farm for enough missiles to kill a few Metroids and pray for the RNG gods to grace you with missiles.
*except Ice Climbers, which had to have been seen as garbage then. It's garbage now. What the hell is with the jumping in that game???
I kinda like the GB Kid Icarus, though it alternates between linear levels (with downward scrolling, so no more deaths by pit... for Pit); however its labyrinth boss levels are somewhat meandering and boss health felt upped way too much, dragging out the simple fights.
The less stiff controls made it feel a bit more enjoyable than the original, though I never finished either.
The jumping controls in the original Kid Icarus were maddening. In modern internet parlance, the game trolls you so fucking hard with its weird jumping + glut of 1tile jumping.
Ninty-developed games in the NES/GB era are (almost) rightly seen as legendary,* at least in terms of expecting a certain degree of intelligence and competence from its players that would not be present in their design in later games (as they began to focus on easier, more "atmospheric" games).
===
In Metroid 1's defense: while we all have complained about farming for health from bug spawns, after a run or two, you realize that the easiest way to refill your health is to get an energy tank, which gives you more life AND refills all of your health. They are placed - a few in each area - to act as almost a recharge while you make your way deeper into the game. A smart player leaves the e-tank right at the beginning of the game as a final health boost before Tourian.
Similarly with missiles: killing either Ridley or Kraid awards you with an extra 75 missiles! And respawning Metroids in Tourian either leave 30 health pickups, or 25 missile pickups (or nothing, if you are shit out of luck). A smart player is never left without resources, except if you die in Tourian, meaning you have to farm for enough missiles to kill a few Metroids and pray for the RNG gods to grace you with missiles.
*except Ice Climbers, which had to have been seen as garbage then. It's garbage now. What the hell is with the jumping in that game???
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Re: Why no Kid Icarus sequels?
It's very much down to what people want from games. Some people want a comforting blanket to take a nap in [1], others want something that punches them in the face and shits down their neck.
[1] Easy things to form an emotional attachment to when you're young. But when you get older, equivalent material can't create the same level of bond since you're no longer a child. I'm sick of nostalgic bastards waxing on about how everything is shit nowadays when everything has always been shit/pretty okay. It's like listening to some old fart go on about how movies are terrible now that they're not all 60's westerns.
Guess who missed it on their first playthrough. Guess who was confused why you couldn't leave boss rooms to restock on missiles.
It's not crippling; most fights are easy to finish with only missiles. But that underwater bastard... sigh.
[1] Easy things to form an emotional attachment to when you're young. But when you get older, equivalent material can't create the same level of bond since you're no longer a child. I'm sick of nostalgic bastards waxing on about how everything is shit nowadays when everything has always been shit/pretty okay. It's like listening to some old fart go on about how movies are terrible now that they're not all 60's westerns.
Yeah the inertia's... you've gotta select it just right early, because by the time you're coming down, you're just gonna walk off the platform if you make your decision then. The 3d classics version of the game has an alternate control system you can choose which is easier on that, and I think has floating in it.EmperorIng wrote:The jumping controls in the original Kid Icarus were maddening.
Super Metroid has only one major flaw: the charge beam is hidden and very plausible to miss.missiles
Guess who missed it on their first playthrough. Guess who was confused why you couldn't leave boss rooms to restock on missiles.
It's not crippling; most fights are easy to finish with only missiles. But that underwater bastard... sigh.
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Mortificator
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Re: Why no Kid Icarus sequels?
Or completely right.BryanM wrote:VERY THOUGHTFUL. YOU ARE A GENIUS. THANK YOU FOR YOUR INSIGHT.GaijinPunch wrote:Actually it's not.BryanM wrote:Kid Icarus is indeed better than the original Metroid.
But actually, you are completely wrong.
Though I also agree with sethsez's post (from... 11 years ago) that Metroid II was a big improvement over the original.
RegalSin wrote:You can't even drive across the country Naked anymore
Re: Why no Kid Icarus sequels?
Kid Icarus is a game I like a lot, even though I don't play it that much lately, and I can't say I cleared the original Metroid and played it all the way through so I might be biased, but I think Kid Icarus held up the test of time better. Not being able to shoot while ducking even though many enemies are half your size or restarting with a pitful 30 HP upon restart/death is IMO indefensible.
One thing to remember though is that both games have a different focus. A good example of this is that aside from the fortresses, Kid Icarus does not feature maze-like layouts and is entirely linear in its level-design.
Kid Icarus is a bit of a weird game in the way it discourages speedrunning by delaying the (often vital) life and power upgrades if you don't take your time to destroy as many enemies as possible in each stage. Most enemy waves spawn a finite amount of baddies but some few spots endlessly generate ennemies, so a beginner strategy to deal with the low amount of HP in the first stages is to reach 20.000 points before 1-2 as to reach the first life upgrade. Things will probably get smoother this way, tough it is still no cakewalk.
If you have problems with the landing after a jump, I suggest holding Up on the D-Pad before touching the ground again to stay fixed on it. Watch out if you land on ice, however, as even if you don't have any inertia on landing using this technique, you may have still some left when you resume walking.
BryanM, are you playing the 3D Classics version? I played it once and I remembered its original control mode being quite off. I quickly switched back to my GBA cart.
The Game Boy sequel is overall easier as there is no instant-death pit beneath your feet and you can slow down your fall during a jump by flapping your wings. Checkpoints are also there in case you die, and the forteresses are less tricky. I agree with EmperorIng that the boss health is a bit too high though. (and that Ice Climber is shit)
One thing to remember though is that both games have a different focus. A good example of this is that aside from the fortresses, Kid Icarus does not feature maze-like layouts and is entirely linear in its level-design.
Kid Icarus is a bit of a weird game in the way it discourages speedrunning by delaying the (often vital) life and power upgrades if you don't take your time to destroy as many enemies as possible in each stage. Most enemy waves spawn a finite amount of baddies but some few spots endlessly generate ennemies, so a beginner strategy to deal with the low amount of HP in the first stages is to reach 20.000 points before 1-2 as to reach the first life upgrade. Things will probably get smoother this way, tough it is still no cakewalk.
If you have problems with the landing after a jump, I suggest holding Up on the D-Pad before touching the ground again to stay fixed on it. Watch out if you land on ice, however, as even if you don't have any inertia on landing using this technique, you may have still some left when you resume walking.
BryanM, are you playing the 3D Classics version? I played it once and I remembered its original control mode being quite off. I quickly switched back to my GBA cart.
The Game Boy sequel is overall easier as there is no instant-death pit beneath your feet and you can slow down your fall during a jump by flapping your wings. Checkpoints are also there in case you die, and the forteresses are less tricky. I agree with EmperorIng that the boss health is a bit too high though. (and that Ice Climber is shit)
Remote Weapon GunFencer - My shmup projectRegalSin wrote: I think I have downloaded so much I am bored with downloading. No really I bored with downloading stuff I might consider moving to Canada or the pacific.
Re: Why no Kid Icarus sequels?
Kid Icarus is a great game. Know what? So, is Metroid.
Hate confusing mazes that feel cheap? Metroid's hide outs have nothing on the awful 3d hideouts that Golgo 13 makes people endure. Instant trap doors mean trial, error, and memorization. Goonies 2 and Ultima III are also guilty.
Kid Icarus is hard, but it never frustrates and hammers players like Mega Man. Also, Kid Icarus was designed with some concept of how the game plays and feels. Mega Man is perfectly content to fill the screen and chug along. It feels like they forced their design onto the screen without bothering to test how it feels to actually play. Now, that sucks.
Hate confusing mazes that feel cheap? Metroid's hide outs have nothing on the awful 3d hideouts that Golgo 13 makes people endure. Instant trap doors mean trial, error, and memorization. Goonies 2 and Ultima III are also guilty.
Kid Icarus is hard, but it never frustrates and hammers players like Mega Man. Also, Kid Icarus was designed with some concept of how the game plays and feels. Mega Man is perfectly content to fill the screen and chug along. It feels like they forced their design onto the screen without bothering to test how it feels to actually play. Now, that sucks.
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