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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:47 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
I think we have to step outside of the 'huge step up' definition to explain that.
It comes down to the technology really and the ability to have a more varied soundtrack, with more varied instrumentation and a 'full' feeling to the music. All this coming together when the game is experienced as a complete work.
Basically my same point about the atmosphere again.

Also screw that - I'll give you 6 as a contender for better soundtrack but 4 or 5? na uh.
I don't particularly like 4's battle theme tbh. 7's is amazing.

But composition-wise(which is the most important aspect to me), it is indeed not a "big step up". Might not even be a step up at all on that front, but instead a lateral move, depending on your preferences. Not a shot at VII's soundtrack, it just goes to show how the soundtrack to the SNES games are damn amazing. And even if you want to argue the "fullness" of the sound and the orchestral-quality : the SNES sounchip, being a sampler, sounds plenty "full" already IMO. Granted there are more ambiant passages in VII, I'll give you that. But I think those could have been aproximated well on the SNES also. (the soundtrack to FFVII actually isn't Redbook audio : but is chiptune (sampler based chip just like the SNES, but with more channels)

What you say???? IV's soundtrack is absolutely divine my friend. It is incredibly moving and powerful. gonna have to vehemently disagree with you here
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:03 pm 


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:lol:
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:13 pm 


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I came in 3rd place for the Street Fighter 2: Champion Edition tournament that was held on Fightcade today. 

https://challonge.com/4lrbs3zr
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:11 am 


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Ajora wrote:
I came in 3rd place for the Street Fighter 2: Champion Edition tournament that was held on Fightcade today. 

https://challonge.com/4lrbs3zr

Gat dayum. That's pretty impressive, some very tough competition on there. 'Grats!
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:26 am 


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https://www.twitch.tv/videos/459296481

The matches can be viewed here. Obviously not the end result that I was looking for, but I'm happy with how I played, and the live commentator thought I was pretty good. "Ajora is a fucking beast". I wish the stream showed my matches against supergood as I got two consecutive perfect rounds against him. Omega Red wrecked me in the semi-finals.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:33 am 


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FF7's soundtrack is super good, no one's arguing that. I just think describing it as a "huge step up" from FF6, an already nearly flawless soundtrack, is a joke :)

FF4's and FF5's probably aren't on the level of FF7's, but their biggest bangers still reach the same heights. FF7's soundtrack probably also stands out as Uematsu kinda started losing it after that.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:56 am 


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To summarize, classic jrpg formula FF's started getting attention among nerds with 4-5 for their qualities, then 6-7 the apex duo made the franchise regarded and famous expanding to a global audience, 8-9 losing mojo but lucrative (incl. reprints/remakes of 1-6)

For 10-15 the 21st century modern-style I hardly see any continuity and opinions vary a lot, when people attempt ranking the franchise those one's positions are all scrambled.


EDIT 'bout maps: I read somewhere the difference between the 'overworld' type of explorable world map, and the large 'open world' areas type, is the paradox in that though the former are technically much smaller they feel bigger and free, while the latter though technically much larger feel cramped in like a Truman Show effect.
I couldn't agree more, in the end it's not how much space is technically available in the program that matters, but how space is perceived by the human player during playtime.
The old school type overworld nails it better for RPGs because they reproduce the idea of a world in our minds, while at best a big 'open world' attempts to respect real scale and at best reproduces the idea of a large city, a country, or several, a continent at best.
Furthermore when the overworld type includes vehicles like boats and especially airships; the sense of roaming free in a world is even further enhanced.
My guess is the 'open world' type will only catch up to that when they'll be able to create one the size and scale of an actual globe/planet which you can travel by land, sea and air the same way.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:01 pm 


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I've been getting stomped in Mordhau. Magically got a few of my el cheapo buds to get it as well, so we've been swinging away. Very chaotic with a pretty big learning curve, but fun (kinda) even when you're getting destroyed. Haven't really done the online thing outside of StarCraft BW in a longtime. Didn't miss the whole online nastiness of what I assume are youths, or just wacko basement fiends. Was learning all sorts of new racial slurs until I disabled chat.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:26 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
EDIT 'bout maps: I read somewhere the difference between the 'overworld' type of explorable world map, and the large 'open world' areas type, is the paradox in that though the former are technically much smaller they feel bigger and free, while the latter though technically much larger feel cramped in like a Truman Show effect.
I couldn't agree more, in the end it's not how much space is technically available in the program that matters, but how space is perceived by the human player during playtime.
The old school type overworld nails it better for RPGs because they reproduce the idea of a world in our minds, while at best a big 'open world' attempts to respect real scale and at best reproduces the idea of a large city, a country, or several, a continent at best.

Pretty much this.
It's not like the concepts aren't possible to merge. Lots of RPGs use the "old school type" well in a completely non-linear open world fashion, with the original Dragon Quest trilogy being an obvious example.

The problem I guess, for modern games, is that it's simply a very abstract representation of travelling in a game that, at least when it comes to AAA titles or even many somewhat smaller budgets, clashes with the modern attempt to purvey some sort of realism, even in a cartoonish style like DQ11.

It's a similar effect as Final Fantasy cutscenes pretty much all the way up to FF9, usually represented by a series of crude "preset" animations of small sprites or low-poly characters. No voice acting, facial animations, etc. Outside of FMVs, cutscenes weren't trying to be more cinematic than they needed. It just left more to the imagination, and allowed the developers to create more content with fewer assets. But that kind of stuff is a hard sell without going for a "retro" gimmick nowadays.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:07 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
FF7's soundtrack is super good, no one's arguing that. I just think describing it as a "huge step up" from FF6, an already nearly flawless soundtrack, is a joke :)

FF4's and FF5's probably aren't on the level of FF7's, but their biggest bangers still reach the same heights. FF7's soundtrack probably also stands out as Uematsu kinda started losing it after that.


I could have been more politic in the way I worded that. I won't (can't) dispute anyone's aesthetic preference for one over the other. I was referring to the presentation in terms of technology advancement and production alone.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:41 pm 


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Replaying GC Resident Evil Zero (hard mode) via my WiiDual on a projector in a cold, dark room.

I forgot how much the rumble feature stresses me out. And hard mode is damn hard. Absolutely not enough ammo to kill things. You basically have to reset the game if you hurt by a crow (which you must run from to conserve ammo or use the knife! to kill).


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:24 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
Pretty much this.
It's not like the concepts aren't possible to merge. Lots of RPGs use the "old school type" well in a completely non-linear open world fashion, with the original Dragon Quest trilogy being an obvious example.

The problem I guess, for modern games, is that it's simply a very abstract representation of travelling in a game that, at least when it comes to AAA titles or even many somewhat smaller budgets, clashes with the modern attempt to purvey some sort of realism, even in a cartoonish style like DQ11.

It's a similar effect as Final Fantasy cutscenes pretty much all the way up to FF9, usually represented by a series of crude "preset" animations of small sprites or low-poly characters. No voice acting, facial animations, etc. Outside of FMVs, cutscenes weren't trying to be more cinematic than they needed. It just left more to the imagination, and allowed the developers to create more content with fewer assets. But that kind of stuff is a hard sell without going for a "retro" gimmick nowadays.

They just need to abandon the idea that a game lacking fights and cities that look like tech demos can't sell.

The old schools overworlds of the recent DQ and Ni no Kuni games didn't hamper the sales, the maps probably represent a massive chunk of those game's budget and people loved them.
I'd even say that in majority - at least where the demographics that's always enjoyed jrpgs is concerned - the old school maps are very much missed.

A new FF a l'ancienne, just imagine, definitely besides maybe the younger audience and the grumps, everyone would be hysterical. But can Squix still do it? Mmh...

'Merging the concepts' though, I understand that'd be desirable, but sounds impossible for them, when they haven't made an old school world since 9, and struggled the shit out of their company to make an open-style one in 15 that ended up mostly useless even compared to 12, and ridiculed by something like Xenoblade's that probably cost many times less to make.

I'd wager if you asked CD Projekt "could you make FF16, but with chocobos and an airship like in the 90's ?" they'd do it 10 times better than Squix for a quarter of the budget, even if it's something with a completely different style and a world-physics they haven't done before.

Squix simply don't know how to make jRPGs anymore, and they can't make wRPGs either. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:28 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
They just need to abandon the idea that a game lacking fights and cities that look like tech demos can't sell.

The old schools overworlds of the recent DQ and Ni no Kuni games didn't hamper the sales, the maps probably represent a massive chunk of those game's budget and people loved them.
I'd even say that in majority - at least where the demographics that's always enjoyed jrpgs is concerned - the old school maps are very much missed.

A new FF a l'ancienne, just imagine, definitely besides maybe the younger audience and the grumps, everyone would be hysterical. But can Squix still do it? Mmh...

'Merging the concepts' though, I understand that'd be desirable, but sounds impossible for them, when they haven't made an old school world since 9, and struggled the shit out of their company to make an open-style one in 15 that ended up mostly useless even compared to 12, and ridiculed by something like Xenoblade's that probably cost many times less to make.

I'd wager if you asked CD Projekt "could you make FF16, but with chocobos and an airship like in the 90's ?" they'd do it 10 times better than Squix for a quarter of the budget, even if it's something with a completely different style and a world-physics they haven't done before.

Squix simply don't know how to make jRPGs anymore, and they can't make wRPGs either. :lol:


God, DQ XI was a masterpiece.

SE made Octopath so I will forgive them their other sins. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:23 pm 


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DQXI was actually in-house Square Enix.
Wasn't Octopath made by the Tenchu guys?


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:47 am 


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I suspect I'm not alone here in not really caring much for mobile games, but did anyone here try out Final Fantasy Dimensions? I seem to recall the demo looking pretty promising.

Blinge wrote:
I don't particularly like 4's battle theme tbh. 7's is amazing.


Finally, someone who agrees with me. IV's battle theme is way too brassy and gives me a headache.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:16 am 


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Sumez wrote:
DQXI was actually in-house Square Enix.
Wasn't Octopath made by the Tenchu guys?


You are probably right, I don't pay attention to this stuff. Loved both games though.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:37 am 


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WelshMegalodon wrote:
I suspect I'm not alone here in not really caring much for mobile games, but did anyone here try out Final Fantasy Dimensions? I seem to recall the demo looking pretty promising.


Final Fantasy Dimensions is pretty good. It's nothing special, pretty formulaic... But the gameplay is good. Especially if you keep the turns active. It's worth the price. The only mobile game BS is purchasing the individual chapters. (Might as well just buy all of them if you happen to like the demo.)

If you liked Final Fantasy III (J) then you'll like this. The job system is more similar to V, though.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:44 am 


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Xyga wrote:
To summarize, classic jrpg formula FF's started getting attention among nerds with 4-5 for their qualities, then 6-7 the apex duo made the franchise regarded and famous expanding to a global audience, 8-9 losing mojo but lucrative (incl. reprints/remakes of 1-6)

For 10-15 the 21st century modern-style I hardly see any continuity and opinions vary a lot, when people attempt ranking the franchise those one's positions are all scrambled.


EDIT 'bout maps: I read somewhere the difference between the 'overworld' type of explorable world map, and the large 'open world' areas type, is the paradox in that though the former are technically much smaller they feel bigger and free, while the latter though technically much larger feel cramped in like a Truman Show effect.
I couldn't agree more, in the end it's not how much space is technically available in the program that matters, but how space is perceived by the human player during playtime.
The old school type overworld nails it better for RPGs because they reproduce the idea of a world in our minds, while at best a big 'open world' attempts to respect real scale and at best reproduces the idea of a large city, a country, or several, a continent at best.
Furthermore when the overworld type includes vehicles like boats and especially airships; the sense of roaming free in a world is even further enhanced.
My guess is the 'open world' type will only catch up to that when they'll be able to create one the size and scale of an actual globe/planet which you can travel by land, sea and air the same way.


I've always seen it as the "uncanny valley" showing up within game mechanics. There are all kinds of little cues that keep telling us that, while this is a step towards reality from what we're used to, it's not quite right.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:59 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
But composition-wise(which is the most important aspect to me), it is indeed not a "big step up". Might not even be a step up at all on that front, but instead a lateral move, depending on your preferences. Not a shot at VII's soundtrack, it just goes to show how the soundtrack to the SNES games are damn amazing.


Oh, for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:07 pm 


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A fair ways into Witch and the Hundred Knight 2, and enjoying it considerably more than the first: quite a bit is the same (or outright recycled), but I struggle to recall any other sequel I've played which has trimmed so much unnecessary fat from its predecessor's corpse (to be fair, few games I've encountered have more fat to trim than Witch 1). There must be close to a dozen vestigial gameplay systems that have been completely deep-sixed: Stamina? Karma? Map revelation? Home invasion? Enemy behavior meter? Reward points? Mystic dice? Sub-facets? All just freaking gone, and I don't miss a single one.

The gameplay's not perfect by any means, but still a big improvement: the camera is better, boss battles are leagues more engaging, a "chain" mechanic encourages you to keep moving for better rewards, and Facets (basically classes), thanks in no small part to the addition of active skills, all feel much more varied from one another, and moreover level up all together, so no more frantically mashing the "switch" button as a boss dies to ensure the weakest one gets the most experience. The story's still heavy on the head-scratching and the witch is still awful (though I'm not as down on her this time around...not sure whether it's because she's handled better or that I'm just desensitized after playing the first one), but it feels like the key players are being introduced much earlier and being given some time to make an impression. I do wonder how in heaven's name the crow servant character made it past the localizers, it feels like something out of a "yes, Disney actually made this way back in the day" YouTube lowlight reel. :lol:

As I said earlier, I recall reviews being rather less kind to this one than the original; I seriously struggle to guess why, as almost every change made here is, IMO, for the better. Once I finish the game (assuming it doesn't pull the rug from under me) I'll have to dig a few up to sate my curiosity.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:29 am 


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Daytona USA [Saturn].
The framerate is low, the draw distance isn't great, but it controls remarkably well unlike the later CCE release [which doesn't seem to do much for draw distance and has somewhat uglier "updated" textures and worse control]. Good fun. Messing up some drifts in Dinosaur Canyon here and there

I tried playing the arcade release in ElSemi's Model 2 emulator -- really desperately need a wheel to even make a reasonable attempt. Using a PS2 controller was way too twitchy.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:14 am 


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null1024 wrote:
Daytona USA [Saturn].
The framerate is low, the draw distance isn't great, but it controls remarkably well unlike the later CCE release [which doesn't seem to do much for draw distance and has somewhat uglier "updated" textures and worse control]. Good fun. Messing up some drifts in Dinosaur Canyon here and there

I tried playing the arcade release in ElSemi's Model 2 emulator -- really desperately need a wheel to even make a reasonable attempt. Using a PS2 controller was way too twitchy.


I loved the Saturn version back in the day - like you say it's a big step down visually, but from what I remember it made a damn good job of transferring over the gameplay.

Still, I'm always maintained that seeing this running alongside PS Ridge in many shops here probably helped to kill the Saturn before it got started. They looked an absolute world apart.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:15 am 


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^ There's a third revision, the japanese CE.

- graphics cleanups
- different times of day
- network linking
- handling closer to the original
- arcade music tracks

It's the best one on the Saturn, though some still prefer the first relase for the handling most accurate of the three.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:43 am 


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Oh, didn't know about that. Would have been a must back in the day.
Also, what's the deal with Saturn Virtua Racing - never managed to play it, is it really so bad?
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:42 pm 


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Marc wrote:
I loved the Saturn version back in the day - like you say it's a big step down visually, but from what I remember it made a damn good job of transferring over the gameplay.

Still, I'm always maintained that seeing this running alongside PS Ridge in many shops here probably helped to kill the Saturn before it got started. They looked an absolute world apart.


Yeah. I'd still say that Daytona on Saturn isn't even super ugly -- the game would be perfectly fine looking if the framerate was higher or the game didn't pop in such huge chunks at once.
But yeah, Ridge Racer on PS1 certainly looks more much impressive. The visuals are a bunch flatter looking than Daytona's, but it's tons smoother and draws quite a bit further out.

Xyga wrote:
^ There's a third revision, the japanese CE.

- graphics cleanups
- different times of day
- network linking
- handling closer to the original
- arcade music tracks

It's the best one on the Saturn, though some still prefer the first relase for the handling most accurate of the three.

Huh. Might give this a shot at some point then.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:55 pm 


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Still on my 'FF7 twenty year later' run.

I can't help but witness the sheer amount of contents they've cared to shove into that game, the many layers of mechanics from obvious to hidden sewn into it, up to stuff I'm discovering now that apparently wasn't broadly known even a decade ago.
Sure there's a ton of game-breaking stuff you'll read about now, but several of these things weren't exploited by most players for many years even after several runs.

For games of the time I don't remember many being that rich, Eternia maybe but lots of its secrets aren't that carefully intertwined into the game's script and universe, while in FF7 there's a sheer amount of contents intentionally set in, timed or not, and thought for allowing various levels of narrow to really expansive gameplay.

Some of the things that obviously weren't planned to be apparent without reading thorough guides or were design errors that allow to greatly exploit to game to the point of breaking it, frankly only cater to speedrunner needs, which I don't give a crap about.
If you don't use those extremities there's massive amounts of digging to make, and really the 'regular' advanced tips and tricks make sense in that their point is clearly to make you enjoy more exploration of the rich possibilities of that world without grinding (if fact the less you dig into the game the more likely you'll have to bother with grinding at some point if you want something but are too much in a hurry)

The only obvious annoying things you can't unsee while replaying that game after a long time are the ugly lego models with awful d-pad control, lots of the prerendered backgrounds screaming 'only for crt!', bad dialogs/translation, redundancy of the characters battle-wise, then lack of challenge of course since even after all this time there's too much I remember to make major mistakes.

But no question it's a pleasure to replay at least once today if you can take your time, it's got all the elements that made jRPGs great back then plus all the new stuff they've introduced thanks to the hardware. Again too bad the remake will certainly miss the overworld, I really can't imagine that game without it.
VI had the best setting and script and is overall a better balanced and rounded game, but it doesn't come anywhere near VII's rich and expansive world, for which somehow you can really excuse Square the mistakes considering the insane amount of work they've stuffed in it.
I think I'm going to clear it, there's something about that 90's diehardness and camp (we'll do all the things! not afraid of failure and cheese) that's incredibly refreshing compared to today's heavy confined self-limiting atmosphere.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:45 pm 


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Another Eden, for a "gacha" game it's surprisingly story focused and the rate they give currency made me wanna stick with some of the characters at least for now.

As far as PC goes, Tales of Symphonia, Ys Origin and Stardew Valley. Although splitting my focus usually ends with me just fishing in SV when unsure which to play.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:33 am 


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Secret of Mana/Seiken Densetsu 2: I actually never played this before, a friend is insanely into it. I'd played the first Gameboy game in the series which was localized as Final Fantasy Adventure and it was a fun adventure RPG. This one...

Honestly, I can't stand the game. A lot of the music loops very quickly and feels subpar to a LOT of Square's other works. Seriously, listen to "Ceremony" and tell me you want to listen to it for multiple dungeons. I am aware it is supposed to be uncomfortable and discordant and grating, but ugh. On the whole, the first game in the series had a much preferable OST even though it was a Gameboy game.

The main sticking point is the combat system is horrendous and among the worst in any RPG I've played. Hit detection feels flaky and the game does a poor job of giving the player feedback if their attack hit or not, or if it "hit" but registered as a miss due to enemy stats. There's early enemies that can stunlock you to death by simply hitting you repeatedly as you have no small period of invulnerability when hit/knocked down, and for many enemies you can do the same to them (woe unto the foolish player who goes into the Haunted Forest before getting the game's second character). Getting all three party members help alleviate the stunlocking issue somewhat, though combat actually feels slower the further you get in the game as the emphasis on longer charge attacks and spells (which pause the game temporarily) increases. With physical attacks often whiffing due to enemies with i-frames, the charge attacks can actually be frustrating to release, since you can easily be interrupted out of them or they can simply whiff if the enemy does something to make themselves invulnerable. Spells eventually become the game breaker, and offensive spells are what you focus on spamming for bosses, which requires constantly reopening the menu and casting manually.

Spells automatically hit the target and cannot be dodged by moving away. This means that enemies with spells can essentially lock down your team with them. The first major spellcasting boss (the fire-themed one) will essentially rip you up if you used up all your MP prior to encountering it, since it constantly spams unavoidable spells and makes itself difficult to hit. It is the boss that teaches you to be prepared to spam your offensive spells on bosses as Freeze makes short work of an otherwise difficult boss.

The menu interface isn't much better and feels very awkward to navigate at times. You eventually get 3 party members, and while multiplayer is surprising to have in a SNES era RPG, the entire experience feels unpleasant, with combat that doesn't feel like your hits connect reliably, which is due to enemies often having iframes when casting, and poor feedback when attacks actually register, what your charge attack hitboxes are, etc. The story is also atrocious and the plot proceeds at an absolutely breakneck pace with no character development whatsoever and frankly poor writing. There are more enjoyable single player experiences to be had in overhead-style RPGs for the SNES. Brain Lord for instance offers a vastly more enjoyable experience with far more engaging combat (and has many of the same weapon types to use with far better script writing/dungeons/magic system).

Surprisingly enough one thing I don't fault is the AI - it's surprisingly reliable at keeping enemies stunlocked with some weapons like the Javelin, though when it's allowed to use charge attacks it often whiffs them. Charge attacks go up to a whopping level 8, and while they look nifty, it really makes the combat pacing feel slow when you're encouraged to max charge attacks to deal real damage while another character does stunlocking to give you time to charge.

If I want a real-time RPG experience, I want it to feel like combat is responsive. There are better multiplayer RPGs and dungeon crawlers that scratch my real time combat RPG itch than this does, especially when the main threat (spells) cannot be reliably dodged. It reminds me of the very first Tales game for the SNES with the constant pausing for spells, though Tales of Phantasia's combat still feels like hits connect more "solidly". The later Tales of games are much more enjoyable when they got away from spells pausing combat and becoming actually dodgeable attacks in Tales of Eternia.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:15 am 


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MY GOD! Roo you're raping my eyes! I don't think I could disagree more about a game than this time lol. :lol: :mrgreen:

Anyway no point in arguing when opinions are so night-and-day, rather I'm not sure I understand what you're looking for.
A beat-em-up-worthy ARPG? (was there really ever one...)
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:43 am 


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Funny, ever since the remake was even announced, saying Secret of Mana is overrated has been the new cool thing.
I guess it's a good example of a game that was super impressive when it came out, but nowadays it doesn't really do anything unique. And to be honest, most of the criticism I hear about it is pretty fitting - though I don't get the problem with the soundtrack. It's amazing.

I think it might also be detrimental to try to think of the game as an action game. When I first played it, in the 90s mind you, I thought it was a really creative take on the turn based RPG, due to how it incorporates real time movements. I don't think I would ever describe it as an action RPG - especially later in the game where you'll still be fighting most boss battles using the menus. Something that's double true for the game's immediate sequel. I wonder what you'll think of that one - it has better feeling melee combat at least.

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
while multiplayer is surprising to have in a SNES era RPG

I feel like I should mention that all three SNES Final Fantasy games have co-op multiplayer, and it's one of the most underrated features of that series.


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