What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Stevens
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Stevens »

WelshMegalodon wrote:Wonder Boy in Monster Land (SMS)

Also known as Super Wonder Boy Monster World and, less commonly, Super Wonder Boy Super Monster Land.

I thought I'd check this out since I finished The Dragon's Trap and Sumez had (some) good things to say about it. What an addictive game. It's intriguing in its opacity, and obviously quite charming. I can currently get to Stage 7 or 8 consistently. After having spent the better part of an hour stumped, I realized that the boss encounter needed to progress the plot was behind a completely invisible door and am now wondering how many other hidden doors there are in this game...

Is there a preferred version of this port to play? The only difference I can see between the North American and Japanese versions is that bosses have a ton of health in the latter.

And just what is going on with this?

Image

I'm using MAME, but it's happened in Emulicious as well.
There's a blast from my childhood. I knew that game in and out as a kid. I was able to clear it.

Lots of hidden gold in trees if I am remembering correctly. And two end games item that are both useful in different ways. Glad you're enjoying it.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Marc »

Blinge wrote:Hahahahahah
yeeah but you got to make her take a shower first!
and she runs around in her underwear :shock: !!

*slow clap for david cage*

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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by FinalBaton »

really compelled to try Monster Land now. ARPGs are my fucking jam.

after getting my first everdrive recently (SNES), I should get my second one soon and that'll be Gen/MD, which lets you load SMS games as well. definitely gonna play that game then
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Sumez »

Just get the Monster World collection by M2 on Xbox Live Arcade :D

It's super cheap and has the original arcade version in English, and the first official translation of Monster World IV as well.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by FinalBaton »

I don't have a Xbox unfortunately. plus I'm really a crt guy when it comes to old games

but that's a great suggestion tho, thanks very much. that looks like a killer comp
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by WelshMegalodon »

Highly appreciate all the tips from Sumez and co.
Sumez wrote:I can't remember exactly, and I'm not familiar with the Master System port, but there are quite a few, and most of them are kinda essential for being fully equipped to deal with later fights.
The funny thing about the hidden doors is that at some (i. e. at least two) are marked with a "?", but most aren't, and even then I feel like one of those "?" doesn't show up consistently. Is there a reliable way to trigger them?
Herr Schatten wrote:There's quite a few, and you'll definitely need those sword updates. I can't remember offhand if any of the sidequest items are also behind hidden doors.
One is technically hidden, but you're told that it exists if you buy mead at the bar. It's interesting how most of the tips are just flavor text, but every once in a while you're told about something you need to progress... people who think Zelda's fountain without a fairy is "bad game design" would lose their shit at having to buy mead twice on two separate occasions to get past the Sphinx.
Herr Schatten wrote:You'll get a feel for when to expect a hidden door. For starters, try to knock on every wall above a platform that's as wide as a door. Also, if there's a "hut" with a regular door inside a cave, there's often something on its roof, either a hidden door or at least some serious money.
Duly noted, thanks! I've found money on top of huts and tree stumps, but no hidden doors yet. I shall remain vigilant.
Herr Schatten wrote:Lol, I have never seen this on real hardware, but if the glitch shows in Emulicious, then I was probably just lucky. Looks like a messed up tilemap because the screen scrolled to a position it wasn't supposed to. Under which circumstances does that happen?
It's happened once here and then once in Stage 3 on the same screen as the hidden armor shop. I think it might be related to the direction you bounce after taking damage, but I honestly have no idea.

Emulicious has also allowed me to get stuck in the ceiling and jump up into the next screen. I thought it was an actual hidden path until I realized I couldn't reproduce it.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by WelshMegalodon »

Man, is the final boss impossible without the Legendary Shield? Seems I can never spare enough money to buy the thing, even without upgrading past the Knight Armor and Ceramic Boots. At least you get all your sword upgrades from bosses.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Stevens »

You taking the ruby?
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by WelshMegalodon »

I've been taking the bell since I'm still learning the maze, but once I do, I'll definitely have to choose the ruby.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Vanguard »

Do you know the tricks to increase the value of hidden gold? Money is a lot less tight if you do it. The easiest method is to cast the tornado spell once or twice and then uncover hidden gold while the tornado is still on screen.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Sumez »

The funny thing about the hidden doors is that at some (i. e. at least two) are marked with a "?", but most aren't, and even then I feel like one of those "?" doesn't show up consistently. Is there a reliable way to trigger them?
I haven't really thought about it, I think it's just the game's way of making you know that these things exists and you should look out for it.
Honestly, you shouldn't feel bad about looking up a guide for their locations.

Another good tip for surviving the game is that buying a drink at a bar will heal you up for one HP. It doesn't seem like much, but it actually makes a big difference down the road.
And what Vanguard said about increasing gold value is a big one too, I didn't know if it were possible on Master System too.
Man, is the final boss impossible without the Legendary Shield?
The final boss is definitely close to impossible without the right gear, and very difficult unless you're completely geared up. You're meant to be completely geared up for sure. :) The most important one is the sword upgrade (each sword you find upgrades your sword by 1, so you can't afford to pass over the earlier secret ones either)
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Herr Schatten »

WelshMegalodon wrote:Man, is the final boss impossible without the Legendary Shield? Seems I can never spare enough money to buy the thing, even without upgrading past the Knight Armor and Ceramic Boots. At least you get all your sword upgrades from bosses.
It's been literally decades since I cleared the game, so forgive me if my memory is a bit hazy. You definitely want to be fully geared up for the final boss, and I seem to remember that it's possible to get the best gear in every category. Note that unlike the sword, the rest of the gear does not upgrade linearly, so you can save money by skipping one or two upgrade levels along the way and just buy the higher level gear later. If I remember correctly, I used to hold out on shield and boots upgrades, as those are mostly quality of life upgrades mid-game, but become essential in the final stages. I wouldn't even try to tackle the final boss without the ruby (and a revival potion). Just use the bell to draw a map and then use that to find your way with the ruby. The layout of the final stage does not change.

I'm not sure the trick to increase the hidden gold works on the Master System. I'm sure I have never used it. But there's hidden gold literally everywhere. You mostly discover it by being airborne in the places where it's hidden so jump up at every place that looks suspicious, which is on the roof of huts, in front of trees, on the edges of buildings, on top of clouds. Also try to jump far from edges of platforms to reach the edges of nuildings higher up. I think this works as early as the first building in the first town. Don't hesitate to milk the spot if you find hidden gold. More often than not, there's more than one coin/bag in the same place.

You can get a nice money boost and a full heart refill from the Kraken boss by defeating it twice. Avoid the hidden underground passage right before the boss room until you have killed it and gotten the key. Then enter the passage. When you resurface, the boss door can be opened again. Defeat the boss one more time to get that sweet loot.


I really like how tightly structured the game is. It just forces you to plan your way through the stages with money distribution and strategical upgrades in mind. Despite all the light RPG elements, it's still very much an arcade game at heart, and for that I think I even slightly prefer it to Dragon's Trap. (Not that the two are really comparable.) It's also the only Master System I can think of where I vastly prefer the PSG soundtrack over the FM one. The FM sound is nice, albeit a bit lazy, with not much in the way of custom instruments. On the other hand, there's obviously a lot of work that went into the sound design on the PSG side, including that sweet sample that's played when coins drop.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Marc »

I found Dragon's Trap occasionally obtuse and abandoned it around halfway through, Monster Land sounds even worse! I've never played IV, not sure whether to set up the 'ol 360 for that or splash for the remake. Then again, I've not played Afterburner Climax in a while so....

Oh god, I'm not sure how much longer I can stick Heavy Rain. So yesterday, Negligent Dad has a panic attack in the Shopping Centre, which it obviously simulated by making we wave the pad around like a lunatic and doing the octopus thing with buttons again. Then of course we spot Lost Boy pulling a red balloon, and segue into a weird section where everyone else freezes while I hunt for said balloon. Which I do for five minutes, taking care not to run into people because the first one I touch collapses and I can only assume, in video game language, that this is NOT GOOD, except after five minutes I get really bored and fucked off and barge into a bunch of them, and this OF COURSE brings the scene to an end.

Then Sad Sack Detective went to see some lady I think I'm supposed to remember from earlier and finds her baby screaming, and her in the bath with cut wrists. He lays her on the bed and fixes up her wrists with plasters and bandages; as the cuts aren't too deep despite it being a suicide attempt and the whole bath being red, changes and feeds her baby then... leaves them fucking to it once he's gotten the info he wanted. I can feel my IQ decreasing every further ten minutes I spend with this.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Sumez »

Marc wrote:I found Dragon's Trap occasionally obtuse and abandoned it around halfway through, Monster Land sounds even worse! I've never played IV, not sure whether to set up the 'ol 360 for that or splash for the remake.
Monster Land is crazy obtuse. It's a really weird style of game design, that's really exclusive to that late 80s attempt to introduce RPG'ish design elements into various arcade games while still keeping them valid in the arcade.
As a result, every superficial element built on top of the core action gameplay is entirely a question of routing with little to no room for deviation or tactical decisions.
But there's something strangely cathartic about it that makes it incredibly enjoyable.

Other good examples I guess would be Cadash, Black Tiger, or Willow.

Monster World IV is a completely different kind of game. It has a hub town and four or five or so dungeons stages that you visit in succession, with no ability to explore freely or go back to earlier areas.
Despite a more casual console like design overall, it's the least RPG'ish of the Monster World series.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Stevens »

Wow. I've forgotten so much about WBML.

What Herr Schatten said - draw a map! The ruby does INSANE damage.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Vanguard »

Sumez wrote:Monster Land is crazy obtuse. It's a really weird style of game design, that's really exclusive to that late 80s attempt to introduce RPG'ish design elements into various arcade games while still keeping them valid in the arcade.
As a result, every superficial element built on top of the core action gameplay is entirely a question of routing with little to no room for deviation or tactical decisions.
But there's something strangely cathartic about it that makes it incredibly enjoyable.

Other good examples I guess would be Cadash, Black Tiger, or Willow.
Yeah, usually RPG elements make games into sandboxes, but Monster Land takes it the opposite direction and uses RPG elements to make itself more of a memorizer.
I like learning a route to make my dude stronger better than learning a route for the sake of pure survival, even if it's ultimately necessary for survival either way.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by TransatlanticFoe »

Stevens wrote:You taking the ruby?
WelshMegalodon wrote:I've been taking the bell since I'm still learning the maze, but once I do, I'll definitely have to choose the ruby.
Tangent, but briefly wondered if this had turned into an East End pub. You toilet, are you taking the ruby?
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Sengoku Strider »

Herr Schatten wrote: I'm not sure the trick to increase the hidden gold works on the Master System. I'm sure I have never used it. But there's hidden gold literally everywhere. You mostly discover it by being airborne in the places where it's hidden so jump up at every place that looks suspicious, which is on the roof of huts, in front of trees, on the edges of buildings, on top of clouds. Also try to jump far from edges of platforms to reach the edges of nuildings higher up. I think this works as early as the first building in the first town. Don't hesitate to milk the spot if you find hidden gold. More often than not, there's more than one coin/bag in the same place.
I've never played the Master System version, so not sure if it applies, but the trick also seems to involve moving the character back & forth very rapidly. The Sega AGES version on Switch even offers a dedicated button for this.
It's also the only Master System I can think of where I vastly prefer the PSG soundtrack over the FM one. The FM sound is nice, albeit a bit lazy, with not much in the way of custom instruments. On the other hand, there's obviously a lot of work that went into the sound design on the PSG side, including that sweet sample that's played when coins drop.
Phantasy Star?
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by vol.2 »

Sengoku Strider wrote: Phantasy Star?
What? No way. PS's FM is way better.

FM


SMS
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Sengoku Strider »

vol.2 wrote:
Sengoku Strider wrote: Phantasy Star?
What? No way. PS's FM is way better.

FM


SMS
My whole experience with Phantasy Star's FM soundtrack came from playing the Switch Sega AGES version about as far as the first dungeon. I remember being caught off guard that I didn't like it as much as the PSG in some cases. After that, I've come across a few comments around the internet echoing that view.

But I don't recall it sounding as good as the playlist you linked, so now I'm wondering if the emulation just wasn't done properly. (Or if there's just some light, pleasant reverb added to that soundtrack on Youtube?). I need to go back and give it another test drive once I have the chance.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by vol.2 »

Yes, the AGEs version sounds weird. I wasn't aware of that version. https://youtu.be/d1htDBlcMyw?t=73

There is an annoying rhythm sound at about 1.5kHz dink-tinky-dink-tinky-dink-tinky-dink, like that. This is not audible in my Japanese version of the game. It's some kind of sibilant distortion artifact not in the music.
Also sounds like it has been compressed AF.


The link of the FM I sent is pretty much what I hear, but it's volume is louder than normal, and it's been transferred from the game audio file at very high settings and sounds cleaner than one would get on normal hardware. But it's essentially how it sounds to me.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by WelshMegalodon »

I did it!

Image

Skipping equipment upgrades, fighting the Kraken and Blue Knight twice, and skimping on magic purchases all resulted in me netting substantially more gold than before, and it turned out Stage 9 also had a ton of hidden milking spots I had completely overlooked. The health refills from those two boss fights also proved indispensable, since it netted me more bonuses and saved a fortune on potions.

Memorizing all the gold locations is like an entire game in itself. Most are on predictable things like platforms and clouds, but then there are some that only appear when jumping off seemingly random ledges - Herr Schatten's advice came in very handy here. Slimes also seem to be a pretty good source of income, but most end up taking too long to kill without magic, so I've just been skipping them. I haven't yet been able to determine whether purchasing or even expending magic to kill them is worth it.

While I wasn't able to upgrade fully, the final boss was reasonably doable with either the Armor of Legend, Hard Shield, and Ceramic Boots, or the Hard Armor, Legendary Shield, and Ceramic Boots. (There were two sword upgrades behind visible doors and two more behind hidden ones, so I believe I've found all of those, too.) The ruby did indeed prove quite devastating, though I honestly wish it were possible to save it for the dragon's MEKA DRAGON form. Sometimes my shield will block its fireballs, but most of the time it won't...

I think the ape guarding the second sword upgrade might be the tankiest boss after the dragon. Damn thing takes way too many hits. At least the wizard's attacks are easy to avoid.

On to Monster World III!
Herr Schatten wrote: It's also the only Master System I can think of where I vastly prefer the PSG soundtrack over the FM one. The FM sound is nice, albeit a bit lazy, with not much in the way of custom instruments. On the other hand, there's obviously a lot of work that went into the sound design on the PSG side, including that sweet sample that's played when coins drop.
I agree. The PSG sound just has so much more character. While the FM isn't bad, I always thought it sounded flatter and less upbeat. The same can be said for Out Run and Phantasy Star, though the latter does have a few standouts:

Dungeon 1
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by FinalBaton »

Phantasy Star dungeon tune in FM fucking SLAPS
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Stevens »

Respectfully disagree. Although I feel it could have to do with what we grew up with.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by vol.2 »

I grew up with the SMS PS. I didn't hear the FM version until something like 15 years ago, and it was a revelation to me.

I ought to have realized that there are plenty of folks who prefer the SMS music. Sorry for being presumptuous about it; I don't ever want to shit on something creative that other people like.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Blinge »

FinalBaton wrote:Phantasy Star dungeon tune in FM fucking SLAPS
Pfft SMS better... for most things except this theme holy shi.
Now I get where the Genesis version borrowed more heavily from!

Wonder boy in Monster World loosks rad holy hell. Is it way more complicated than the dragons trap?
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Vanguard »

Blinge wrote:Wonder boy in Monster World loosks rad holy hell. Is it way more complicated than the dragons trap?
Nah, in terms of complexity it goes Monster Land > Dragon's Trap > Monster World > Monster World 4. Each title became more generic and straightforward than the last.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Blinge »

Oh I meant whichever one Welshy was playing
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Vanguard »

Then yes it is.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Blinge »

haha oh my god. REE, I confuse.
So welshy was playing Monstuh Land ?

EDIT: yes he was. fine i went back and read the thread. sorry, i thought it was buried several pages ago.
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