What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

[WelshMegalodon]

It's obviously not the hardest, but try getting through Metroid: Zero Mission's stealth segment without getting detected. It's pretty bad, to be honest, not well done at all.

[BIL]

I remember MGS2's European Extreme difficulty (introduced for PAL, later included in all regions of Substance) being pretty tough, and fun. Detection is instant Game Over, top rank requires no kills (KOs are fine though). Quite a bit of tactical and routing flexiblity, despite the unforgiving difficulty. Tranq darts, flashbangs and porno mags are your friends! Been a while, but then it'd been years since my last play and I still had a great time, so I'll give it a mention.

[vol.2]

I just can't go back to the Thief games, even though they were some of my all-time favorites, because I originally played them with an A3D card.

A superior piece of technology lost to the 90s thanks to a shitty lawsuit by Creative that the A3D people won, but went bankrupt from fighting anyway.

And now we're living in an age of near-universal integrated sound cards and the entire concept of an "SPU" would be baffling to younger gamerz.

A3D used an early form of HRTF processing that allowed for some rudimentary positional object-based audio. It didn't do elevation very well, and it had absolutely no room modelling (surface coefficients) or occlusion (the way in which an object would alter sound wave path) or any reflection calculations (the way sound changes as it bounces off walls) [edit: it actually was capable of primary reflections if the developer actually chose to implement it] at all. It also used a super-vague HRTF that would absolutely not work as well for all people. I think the generally accepted number is that the most ideal generalized HRTF will be acceptable for a maximum of 80% of the population, the remaining 20% won't perceive the position at all or will perceive sound position to swapped around or randomized to varying degrees. That's only with the most ideal HRTF though, and it's not possible to generalize it on paper because it's determined by the unique physiology of each person's ear shape and the geometry that exists between you head and the tops of your shoulders.

I work for a company that specializes in audio signal processing, and I've actually worked with one of the guys from A3D and know a bit about what it does. AFAIK, you will never ever see A3D come back to availability.

The good news is that many of the currently available tools are orders of magnitude better than A3D and are implemented in many game engines already. They are generally only targeted for compile when devs are building for VR/AR though because 3D audio implementation has been widely seen as a failure for 2D gaming by the business people in charge of gaming companies. It was seen as a fad feature that needed that needed to be checked off the list for release until it suddenly wasn't.

[Searchlike]

It's obviously not the hardest, but try getting through Metroid: Zero Mission's stealth segment without getting detected. It's pretty bad, to be honest, not well done at all.

Just watched a perfect stealth video of this. Can't believe noone's done a good romhack out of that, so much potential. While we're talking about curiosities, has anyone played the stealth chapter of Live a Live? Is that one flawed as well?

I remember MGS2's European Extreme difficulty (introduced for PAL, later included in all regions of Substance) being pretty tough, and fun. Detection is instant Game Over, top rank requires no kills (KOs are fine though). Quite a bit of tactical and routing flexiblity, despite the unforgiving difficulty. Tranq darts, flashbangs and porno mags are your friends! Been a while, but then it'd been years since my last play and I still had a great time, so I'll give it a mention.

It's been a while for me too, a decade at least, I remember trying a similar challenge in MGS3S, but can't recall the specific circumstances, only that I failed to accomplish it. Is it possible to ghost the MGS games stealth sections? How about limited saves, I know the Hitman games do this, anything else?

[BIL]

A lot depends on whether you're going for the Big Boss rank - in that case, saves are definitely limited, I think you get two or three max for the whole game (been even longer since I played MGS3 - wouldn't surprise me if it allows more for its equivalent rank, with it being a massively lengthier game than MGS1+2).

Otherwise nope, you're free to save (and kill, use Rations, etc) as frequently as you like.

This reminds me of Konami's late PS1 into PS2-era stuff always having considerable ranking post-games, for those who wanted them. I was never too into it, tbh - completely ignored ZOE2's at the time, have enjoyed revisiting the PS4 version with an eye for peak performance. I didn't even go for ranks in DMC1 back in the day, just pure DMD survival with tons of item spam. Funny how things circle back around, haha. Now stuff like bombs and shields tanking your Style points seems the most obvious thing ever, particularly with Kamiya being a diehard arcade gamer.

[Mischief Maker]

I just can't go back to the Thief games, even though they were some of my all-time favorites, because I originally played them with an A3D card.

A superior piece of technology lost to the 90s thanks to a shitty lawsuit by Creative that the A3D people won, but went bankrupt from fighting anyway.

And now we're living in an age of near-universal integrated sound cards and the entire concept of an "SPU" would be baffling to younger gamerz.

A3D used an early form of HRTF processing that allowed for some rudimentary positional object-based audio. It didn't do elevation very well, and it had absolutely no room modelling (surface coefficients) or occlusion (the way in which an object would alter sound wave path) or any reflection calculations (the way sound changes as it bounces off walls) at all. It also used a super-vague HRTF that would absolutely not work as well for all people. I think the generally accepted number is that the most ideal generalized HRTF will be acceptable for a maximum of 80% of the population, the remaining 20% won't perceive the position at all or will perceive sound position to swapped around or randomized to varying degrees. That's only with the most ideal HRTF though, and it's not possible to generalize it on paper because it's determined by the unique physiology of each person's ear shape and the geometry that exists between you head and the tops of your shoulders.

I work for a company that specializes in audio signal processing, and I've actually worked with one of the guys from A3D and know a bit about what it does. AFAIK, you will never ever see A3D come back to availability.

The good news is that many of the currently available tools are orders of magnitude better than A3D and are implemented in many game engines already. They are generally only targeted for compile when devs are building for VR/AR though because 3D audio implementation has been widely seen as a failure for 2D gaming by the business people in charge of gaming companies. It was seen as a fad feature that needed that needed to be checked off the list for release until it suddenly wasn't.

I'll take your word for it, because my only other point of reference was EAX, which was total ass in comparison.

And yeah, the software-based positional audio in Devil Daggers lives up to my memories.

I just wish someone would make an A3D emulator so I could play those games properly again, because I DO fall into that category of people the sound positioning works for.

[Searchlike]

This reminds me of Konami's late PS1 into PS2-era stuff always having considerable ranking post-games, for those who wanted them. I was never too into it, tbh - completely ignored ZOE2's at the time, have enjoyed revisiting the PS4 version with an eye for peak performance. I didn't even go for ranks in DMC1 back in the day, just pure survival with tons of item spam. Funny how things circle back around, haha. Now stuff like bombs and shields tanking your Style points in DMC seems the most obvious thing ever.

Funny you mention this. Learning about good rank/scoring systems in non-arcade games has been a recent obsession of mine. Particularly hard to do for RPG's, I know some Fire Emblem-like games got them, not sure which ones other than FE7 and Berwick Saga. I went down a deep rabbit hole searching for these type of games, Search is my name and so on, but didn't find much. Even found a thread by our good friend Licorice on a famous RPG forum inquiring about this as well.

[Licorice]

I have been summoned.

Outside of Fire Emblem (5, 6, 7 and New Mystery of the Emblem) and Advance Wars (1, 2, 4), there's the Sting Dept. Heaven games. I played and greatly enjoyed Gungnir (like FFT if FFT was good, very hard to get the 3 star ratings) and also Yggdra Union.

Even if some of these kinds of games don't provide any ranking or scoring (the above all do), people like to play them for LTCs. Kinda like how you can play action games for 1CCs or 1LCs even when scoring is busted.

A guy who these days goes by the name of fatgamecat used to have a great blog with lots of reccommendations. Search that name, you'll get his serene's forest and gamefaqs posts.

[Marc]

Unlocked the AX tracks in F-Zero GX.

Them goodies!

Spoiler

I did the Emerald Cup last and got a bit lucky to be honest. I landed last place on Ordeal, but the point system was generous enough to give me the overall victory after being particularly cruel a couple times before (losing by tie was quite demoralizing ). If it helps at all, I'm just going to say that Master Mode gets a lot more manageable once you realize how predictable the game's AI is. It's a good idea to practice the courses without boosting and learning the behaviour of the AI in the process. On several tracks they tend to boost only if you do so and you can take this to your advantage. Playing mind games with the AI and only boosting right at the end won me quite a few races. Haven't applied this strategy in Story Mode Hard or Very Hard, but I'm sure it won't work there, hehe.

---

Speaking of Thief, what's the most challenging stealth game out there?

Nice, I don't think I ever managed Master back in the day. I've got AX on a softmodded Wii, but it looks like ass on my TV.

Funnily enough, after years of messing around with them on various emulators, I decided to start playing through the GBA F-Zero titles last night. I'm trying for Expert on them all first, I'm just presume they all have a master level to be unlocked like the SNES game. One cup per night so as not to annoy me.

Maximum Impact's first cup went down pretty easily. Well that is to say I aced the first four races, then ended up completing the 5th on my last life due to some dirty AI. Among other thing I witnessed last night - a CPU opponent careen through a corner at top speed, hit a drone car full-on, then simply correct course and carry on as though nothing happened; a CPU opponent spin in mid-air, attempt to ram me off the course, and again correct and carry on at full speed; opponents squeezing through gaps that literally didn't exist..... it's brutal. They could be quite a handful on SNES master level, but here, there were times I had packs of them gang up on me just to force me into a place one down from qualifying for the next lap. Handling is pretty reminiscent of the SNES - feels a bit stiffer in comparison, but the old method of lean-turning while using accelerate on/off to feather round tight corners still works perfectly. Music is a little weak so far though, a shame after the SNES's iconic soundtrack (which is one I would absolutely buy on vinyl). Not quite up there with the SNES game so far, but not too far away.

[Blinge]

Yeah challenging Stealth games.. are they challenging because they're just bad stealth games?

I'm thinking of Last of Us 1, which i'm playing in small chunks at my gf's place.

I get detected all the time, especially by humans. As an MGS veteran and guy who beat Thief Gold on hardest that one time, it hits my gamer pride and annoys me.
I can't tell if i'm just shit or the game is bad/ or if the stealth is Sekiro style - like you're expected to take maybe 2 guys out before the shit hits the fan and you have to regroup.

Gameplaywise i think it blows, I really don't get on with Naughty Dog.

[BIL]

TLOU is part of the grand tradition of RE4 "stealth," meaning "you shoot millions of cunts in the face like it's DOOM on Too Young To Die difficulty, but first, you make sure your back is to a sturdy wall."

Don't get me wrong, I looove me some RE4 - main story, Assignment Ada and THE ANOTHER ORDER alike, without even getting into the Authentic Videogame Crackpipe that is THE MERCENARIES - but the disdain is particularly fresh after chancing across this joker, who I suspect would spin in circles on the floor shitting his pants before a truly tactical affair like Gun.Smoke or Ninja Spirit or Final Fight:

Perhaps what’s most interesting to me about Resident Evil 4 is how it stands dead center between tactical video game realism and the arcadey nonsense inherent in most video games of the '90s and early aughts.

Behold, muh tactical videogame realism

"AYKSHUALLY you are just exploiting the AI, not FIGHTING FAIR LIKE A SUPER SMART REAL GAMER" Oh for real? Nah bitch I give these cunts a fair shot all the time. This shit is vacation. (PROTIP: if u r SCURRED of this superb 4-front ambush, use the sturdy wall off to the right, you GREAT BIG PUSSY )

To say every encounter in RE4 is about gunning down enemies is to do the game an injustice; these are open-ended puzzles disguised as combat encounters.

Y-y-you mean like VIDYA GAEMZ?

[Blinge]

Ah yeah, the sniff my own farts school of video game jurnalizm. Why do these guys always write in the same pompous style?
Also I can hear Birru's Hate boner going full mast as soon as he saw "arcadey nonsense"

Beaten only by "I suck therefore game bad."
https://twitter.com/laurakbuzz/status/9 ... 49?lang=en

hahah their review is gone now! I remember it had some gems like
[I'm no stranger to perfect parries, I'VE played STREET FIGHTER 3: 3RD STRIKE]
nevermind that cuphead's parries are super lenient and a bajillion times easier than 3rd strike's, not to mention you use the jump button.

Anyway yeah, I understand 'I suck therefore game bad' is exactly what I'm doing about TLOU ;]
There's moments where I'm like, 'fine i'm rattled but I can lay some pipe up these two cunts real quick, the others are miles away inside the building, upstairs.'

I swear to christ they teleport behind you no matter the distance if you're in loud combat.

[Marc]

I found the stealth in TLoU really inconsistent. It's almost like there's a limit to how many it's willing to let you bump off in any one area before a soft alarm is raised.

I picked up the sequel, because £10.00, but the thought of starting it makes me feel weary. Hell, ever Control, which is supposed to be relatively brief, is starting to wear just a little.

[Blinge]

I had this hilarious segment recently hiding in a hotel toilet while a searching enemy was walking on the spot, blocked by ellie, and not seeing her because they can't detect your companions.

I couldn't leave, he couldn't get in. Eventually I got bored and tried to bottle him on GF's advice. That didn't work, fortunately I managed to kill him then hide again and repeat the process for 2 more guys before just shooting the next two. Ended up with a pile of bodies all in one room.

[BIL]

Sounds about right.

Let my rashness be a warning to you, young BURINJU - I posted the wrong frickin videos While the four-way Gallery ambush was restored, I am none too chuffed to see I deleted my masterpiece, in which the game's FINAL DEFENSIVE LINE is alerted en masse with the aid of a lone Flashbang, chaingunner miniboss and all, before Leon parks himself by the exit door and mows the cunts down in Totally Realistic VG Stylie! FUCK, there goes my validation. For all the sooper smart VG TACTICIANS out there, though, here is the gist of it! I only do it because it looks cool

(again, all love to RE4 <3 but it's no NAZO NO GAME DESIGN. It's a chimera of classic tank control and GUN SHOOTING ala Operation Wolf / Time Crisis. When you depress the R trigger, one becomes the other! YOUR RESPONSIBILITY IN THIS BATTLE is to ensure your back and sides are clear, before entering THE SHOOTING WORLD - because while enemies are slow to approach head-on, and their projectile attacks can be snuffed with deft counter-shots [don't run! running is for cunts!], they actually close in really fucking fast when off-camera, and will fuck you dead from the sides/back! [The big exception are your four-legged amigos LOS COLMILLOS, who are even more inescapable while off-camera, but will very politely wait for you to turn around and look at their toothy boat race before ripping your fuckin throat out Arf arf arf! You see? Even the fucking dog knows what is up!]

This is the TRVE & HONEST reason, contrary to our friend above, that calling RE4 a "third person shooter" doesn't really work - and why praising its tactical shooting as SUMFING NEW, while slagging off classic arcade discipline in the same breath, makes you look like a gaping blown-out arsehole. If you're thinking in terms of a raging open battlefield, rather than manipulating each confrontation into a stable shooting gallery, you are probably taking farming implements and quarrels to the back of the head on the regular.

This is also why TEH MERCENARIES is far and away the game's best asset, in pure action terms, and a classic of home-original arcade design overall - because the time pressure forces you to aggressively tear around the map, forging one SHAWEET gallery setup after another for 1337 CHAINZ)

[Stevens]

Behold, muh tactical videogame realism

I frame abuse at 2:01. Hackz.

https://youtu.be/KU51E49f7pc?t=121

[BIL]

Check out the RE4 master I borrowed the Chainsaw Man bean from - like a floppy-haired Shaolin monk, he demolishes most of 1-2's Valley horde with nothing but a ladder.

[Searchlike]

I have been summoned...

Much appreciated. Had a good time reading some of your old posts and I didn't realize it was you until a mention of The Firemen on a RPG site gave you away, and then I noticed the username. Do you happen to know if there are any noticeable differences between the GBA and PSP versions of Yggdra Union? EDIT: Ok, scratch that. Looks like the PSP version was given a Hard mode and it's probably the definitive edition.

Funnily enough, after years of messing around with them on various emulators, I decided to start playing through the GBA F-Zero titles last night...

I'm only really familiar with GX but I know the series is infamously cheap. GX offers you a replay mode so you can see how bad the AI cheats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyiM2-uox_8

Good luck with Maximum Velocity!

Yeah challenging Stealth games.. are they challenging because they're just bad stealth games?

I'm thinking of Last of Us 1...

Stealth sections in games that are not primarily about stealth tend to suck more often than not, this is why I sometimes hate variety, it can easily lead to a master of none kinda thing.

[To Far Away Times]

After finishing Hollow Knight and thinking it was good but not great I jumped into Hades last weekend. I'm not a huge fan of these Rougelike games but this one hits the spot. Totally worth the hype. Hades is super polished in damn near everything it does, and very addictive. One of the cleverest designs I've seen in a long time with its evolving narrative. Hades isn't good despite being a Rouglelike, its good because it's a rougelike. I always want to see what's next, who I'll run into, how the story will unfold. The way the game rolls out it's narrative is a brilliant idea and executed to perfection.

[Blinge]

Aww

Did you beat Nightmare King Grimm?

That's a shame, you know i got the double jump last in my blind playthrough of Hollow Knight. I simply never went that way. turns out you can get hella far with just wall jumps and airdash.

[To Far Away Times]

Aww

Did you beat Nightmare King Grimm?

That's a shame, you know i got the double jump last in my blind playthrough of Hollow Knight. I simply never went that way. turns out you can get hella far with just wall jumps and airdash.

I didn't go all the way. Got the first ending I could get in the egg temple. Kinda wanted to finish it and move on. Game is super long for a castleroid.

[Sumez]

Definitely go for at least the true ending. The final boss is one of the highlights of the game IMO.

[Blinge]

Yeah that whole 'go the extra mile' for the true endings/last boss is kind of a metroidvania staple isn't it?
Especially when there's rad content like White Palace on that path

[guigui]

Hollow Kinght ... White Palace ...

Damned I did love Hollow Knight, and went all the way to the TLB, but the White Palace almost made me give up.

[Blinge]

Did you know there's a hidden side area in there called The Path of Pain??
It's even tougher

[Ghegs]

With a proper charm setup White Palace isn't that bad, but Path of Pain can go jump in a lake, especially considering the payoff.

[guigui]

Oh yeah ! I remember cheesing the White Palace with the proper setup, and giving the middle finger to Path of Pain after 2 tries.

Hollow Knight is still one of my best 2D games though, White Palace is just 3% of the full game.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

FF1 no weapons: made it to L16 grinding on stuff around Crescent Lake, particularly the group of 4 Pedes that would show up. However at L16 they start running away because they have shockingly low morale. No matter, we're tough enough we can use the Peninsula of Power to level grind like crazy. Nothing there runs from us, and every single fight is well worth it in terms of gold and exp gained vs time spent in battle. We hit level 19, then proceed to punch the vampire and lich in the Earth Cave into dust.

I've never spent so long in battle against a boss before that had spells; even without dipping into my stock of Hel2 spells I was able to outheal everything and beat the lich senseless.

[Blinge]

Getting chased around the lake by Pedes? damn..

Roo you're a man after my own heart.
I wonder if it's worth hacking some of your footage into a montage and narrating over it like my KF vids?

I've been thinking about doing that with my phantasy star 2 "bad character" playthrough but I don't wanna record ALL that raw footage so i might just record very selectively.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

It's hard to know what to record and what not to record. I'd be tempted to just record everything and cut it the boring bits out (grinding, so much grinding, it's way slower going without weapons). Speaking of which, I need a new hard drive. I'm down to like 50 GB space left with all the videos I have still on here.