What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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vol.2
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by vol.2 »

Sumez wrote: It's a douchy way to treat your audience, and similar to (but even worse than) how Thimbleweed Park ended.
Spoiler
How could the ending have been anything else? He even lets you (the player) decide what your imagination allowed it to be. The t-shirt is just a stand-in for the "real world," which you are free to askew if you so choose. I'm assuming you also got the alternative ending where you don't leave with Elaine, and there is a post-credit sequence? In the world of Monkey Island, the secret is never discovered, and your adventures are still continuing.
Hell, what was even the purpose of introducing the three new pirate leaders, giving them all individual personalities and a lot of screen time, and then never going anywhere with them? They ended up playing absolutely no role in the game's story.
Spoiler
I agree they needed to play a bigger role, but they are obviously intended to be a secondary obstacle to LeChuck, and didn't really need to be important in the end. However, they should have created more of a story-quest for GT, like he should have had to eliminate them on Melee before he could leave or something, and then they are out at sea, somehow creating problems until LeChuck runs across them or something. The bones of that concept is totally there, but it's like they just didn't have room for it or something. Like I said before, feel like an unfinished game.
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Sumez
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Sumez »

vol.2 wrote:
Spoiler
How could the ending have been anything else? He even lets you (the player) decide what your imagination allowed it to be. The t-shirt is just a stand-in for the "real world," which you are free to askew if you so choose. I'm assuming you also got the alternative ending where you don't leave with Elaine, and there is a post-credit sequence? In the world of Monkey Island, the secret is never discovered, and your adventures are still continuing.
Maybe I explained myself poorly, or you missed the point I was trying to make. :P
Spoiler
My problem wasn't the nature of the ending, or even that of the Secret. Like I wrote, I was both expecting and hoping for something along those lines. My issue is how you reach that end - having set up at least a showdown of sorts, only to transport Guybrush directly to the end of the game. It's a really going out with a whimper, and the Monkey Island 2 ending performs a similar twist in a way more satisfying manner, since you actually have the whole showdown with LeChuck prior to it, which manages to call back to everything that had happened up to that point.
Spoiler
I agree they needed to play a bigger role, but they are obviously intended to be a secondary obstacle to LeChuck, and didn't really need to be important in the end. However, they should have created more of a story-quest for GT, like he should have had to eliminate them on Melee before he could leave or something, and then they are out at sea, somehow creating problems until LeChuck runs across them or something. The bones of that concept is totally there, but it's like they just didn't have room for it or something. Like I said before, feel like an unfinished game.
Pretty much exactly this. Like you said, they are intended as a "secondary obstacle", yet
Spoiler
neither they NOR LeChuck ever manage to form an obstacle at all!
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vol.2
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by vol.2 »

Sumez wrote: Maybe I explained myself poorly, or you missed the point I was trying to make. :P
Spoiler
My problem wasn't the nature of the ending, or even that of the Secret. Like I wrote, I was both expecting and hoping for something along those lines. My issue is how you reach that end - having set up at least a showdown of sorts, only to transport Guybrush directly to the end of the game. It's a really going out with a whimper, and the Monkey Island 2 ending performs a similar twist in a way more satisfying manner, since you actually have the whole showdown with LeChuck prior to it, which manages to call back to everything that had happened up to that point.
That's true, but
Spoiler
it's possible that the showdown is yet to come, and that Madison and company will be fleshed out better in the next game. But, yes, I agree there wasn't really much of a "showdown," and that's a bit of a letdown. However, I did really love the underground lava rooms at the end; it was a lot like the LeChuck Island at the end of MI2, and the end of the game performed a role similar to the showdown, albeit with Elaine instead of LeChuck. If they had made some puzzles at the end in the amusement park, it would have been better, like something that was a remaining obstacle to reaching Elaine.

Spoiler
Pretty much exactly this. Like you said, they are intended as a "secondary obstacle", yet
Spoiler
neither they NOR LeChuck ever manage to form an obstacle at all!
Spoiler
Well, maybe. There are puzzle quests driven by Madison, she is kind of a figure looming in the background during the first half of the game. And I would say that LeChuck isn't framed as your true opponent at the end because the game (Ron Gilbert) wants you to take away that LeChuck and GT are two sides of the same coin. The endless search for the McGuffin consumes both of you, and you leave a trail of disaster in your wake throughout the game. I think it's trying to make a philosophical point instead of giving you some kind of concrete answer to "the secret." I'm okay with the ending, it made me a bit emotional, and I thought it was pretty existential.
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Herr Schatten
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Herr Schatten »

vol.2 wrote:
Spoiler
Well, maybe. There are puzzle quests driven by Madison, she is kind of a figure looming in the background during the first half of the game. And I would say that LeChuck isn't framed as your true opponent at the end because the game (Ron Gilbert) wants you to take away that LeChuck and GT are two sides of the same coin. The endless search for the McGuffin consumes both of you, and you leave a trail of disaster in your wake throughout the game. I think it's trying to make a philosophical point instead of giving you some kind of concrete answer to "the secret." I'm okay with the ending, it made me a bit emotional, and I thought it was pretty existential.
I agree with this. I’m totally fine with the ending, because
Spoiler
a) both the dialogue with Guybrush Jr. and the post-credit scene point to it not being the "real" ending anyway and b) after MI2 and Thimbleweed Park, weird meta endings are exactly what I expect from Gilbert. It’s just his thing.
However, having just finished the game, I also agree that on the structural (not story) side of things a lot of it feels like it’s not been fleshed out as much as it could (and should) have been. And that includes the ending, which certainly qualifies as anticlimactic.
Spoiler
Admittedly, the code wheel puzzle was clever, though.
So yes, I still have little to complain about except the german translation, which was full of errors and at least in one spot quite misleading:
Spoiler
In chapter 2, I kept searching for a way to refill the pepper, because Flambe urged me to make his dessert "schärfer". You see, in German, if a dish burns your mouth, it’s called "scharf", which in English would be "sharp". But since I was supposed to scorch the dish, he should have asked me to heat it up instead, which would have fitted the English "hot" much better.
The translations of the first two games were brilliant and paid a lot of attention to such language details, so I wonder why they went with a different and less capable guy this time.

One thing I really like is that what seems like red herrings aren’t necessarily ones.
Spoiler
Like there are three (?) ways to build a mop. With the ropes, with the plush dog or with the head from the voodoo shop. The two unused items seem useless, but are really just alternative ways to achieve a goal.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by BurlyHeart »

Metal Slug X - disappointing in all honesty. Stage 1 has some charm but it's way too easy. The final boss is a repeat of one of the original Metal Slug bosses. The Stage 1 mid-boss has a cool design, but as the game gives you the Chaser missiles, you don't really have to do much. I can forgive it tho, it's only Stage 1 after all. But Stage 2 is an absolute snoozefest. I hate it. The first playthrough was full of "oh wow cool!" moments, but on subsequent playthroughs, the frustratingly slow pacing becomes more apparent, and it all ends with a boring boss fight. The game certainly picks up from Stage 3, with some fantastic set pieces and tons of enemies. The golden Metal Slug is super-fun! And seeing
Spoiler
O'Neil getting swallowed by the Orca was an all-time moment. My wife and I stared at each other in disbelief. One of the reasons I avoid watching playthroughs unless I've already played the game.
I'll keep at it and hope I come to enjoy the latter stages more than I dislike the earlier ones. I'm actually surprised I haven't read more negativity about Stage 2. Makes me curious about Metal Slug 2 and what made them remake it.

Elevator Action - I think it is one of the best games ever made. Superbly designed with top class music. Boy oh boy can it be tense. All worth it seeing that car drive away!

Sunset Riders - the early levels are really fun! I haven't credit-fed my way through it, so I hope the later levels will hold up just as well.

King of Fighters 98, XIII & 15 - Just when I thought I was out, fighting games drag me back in. Having a blast learning combos and about the characters. Very fun game. The combo aspect is not hard as advertised, though movement & decision making need a lot of honing. Losing a lot online and couldn't care less. Managing to get one big combo to clutch out a match more than made up for all the failures. it's all a learning process.

Guilty Gear ACPR & Strive - I'm not sure I can ever take Strive seriously, but it can be fun at times. ACPR is one of the best games ever made and now has fantastic online and training tools. Xrd is getting rollback soon too.
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BIL
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by BIL »

MSX's second stage definitely gets some flak, I've seen Slug fans on here say it temporarily stops being an arcade game for them around there. :smile: I don't mind it too much. It's very easy, but the breezy ultraviolence, undulating terrain (I like those nervous jumps to/from the genies), and Nazca's sheer pixel prowess keep me occupied, just about. (I prefer MS2's drier palette to MSX's sometimes outrageous cartoon hues, in fact, I consider MS2 the most beautiful Neo Slug, in stills... but regardless, that's some impressively detailed 2D archaeology) The boss is slightly redeemed by what I call the Woodchipper Principle. It's mild and easy, but if you reach it properly-equipped, you can shred it in comically short order, like four seconds or something. :lol:

MS2's incarnation of this stage, OTOH, I genuinely dislike - it's a very rare example of the game running at tolerable speed, only it's because there's nothing onscreen. Turns an easy but hard-kicking killathon into a ghost town.

MSX's third stage midboss, the Keesi (that massive VTOL bomber that ambushes you after switching trains) is actually MS2's first boss. I think it was a good trade; Nazca's st1 bosses aren't much, and while the Keesi loses one silly MS2 attack (disgorging terrorists who'll somersault off the background awnings, straight into your HMG), it gains some very nice RNG tension, between its assorted projectiles and the nervily erratic jet blast attack. Brotip: if it's got you trapped and drops a tank on your head, one you can't shoot down before it crushes you, or sidestep without getting torched - that's what Grenades are for Image

Also it just looks supremely cool, having it descend onto the speeding train for a short, violent encounter ended in a hail of golden coins.

God, stage 3's direction is brilliant. Image
Spoiler
Image

THE SUPER VEHICLE INVIGORATION (◎w◎;)


MS2 vs MSX seems to provoke almost sectarian rage amongst fans of the former, and I've never quite understood why. Shelf queens, I suspect. :mrgreen: All I'll say is, MS2 has some interesting alternate arrangements, but also quite a few inferior ones, and it's all kinda moot because the slowdown is unbearable. Genuinely has some curio appeal, but I consider X by far the definitive. This is usually where some nutter runs at me with a suicide belt and I hit "topic list." :shock: :cool:
Last edited by BIL on Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Sumez »

MSX/2's second stage would probably me a more common target for criticism if it wasn't for MS3's second stage being even worse at killing the pace.
BurlyHeart wrote:Makes me curious about Metal Slug 2 and what made them remake it.
If playing MS2 once doesn't make it clear, try playing it co-op. :D
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Air Master Burst »

Even if 2 didn't have the crippling slowdown X is the better game; but I still strongly disagree with some of the aesthetic changes they made to it, especially spoiling the aliens early.

I personally prefer 3 to X, but I get where the X stans are coming from. Then again, I always liked MS3's second stage, so no accounting for taste.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Sumez »

Gotta follow up on a few more loose ends here...
BrianC wrote:I found an Eggerland website with maps that shows which levels came from other games. Western Lolo 2 has a lot taken from previous games and only 10 levels shared with its JP counterpart. Lolo 3 west has mostly unique levels with 10 taken from JP Lolo, and only a handful of training levels and bosses shared with its JP counterpart. Surprisingly only Eggerland Revival of the Labyrinth reuses a level from FDS Eggerland/MSX Egggerland 2. Levels in western Lolo 1 and 2 mostly came from Revival of the Labyrinth FC cart, the second FDS Eggerland (which is pretty much sample levels with an editor, a few from the original MSX Eggerland Mystery), and the original Eggerland Mystery.
Wow, that's a fantastic site. Did you go through every single room in one map and compared it to the other map in order to identify the 10 levels shared??
It's pretty cool that Lolo 3 and JP-Lolo 2 are mostly unique games in terms of puzzles, I really want to compare their difficulty level. Several puzzles in 3 took me over an hour to solve.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by BIL »

Sumez wrote:MSX/2's second stage would probably me a more common target for criticism if it wasn't for MS3's second stage being even worse at killing the pace.
*splutter* *fume* WHY YOU LYIN (◎w◎;)

MS3 st2 is a big old job of work, it's true. :cool: I never really thought of it as a pacekiller though, since you're generally doing lots of highly dangerous shit throughout, a lot of it pretty rad (and most of the boring plinky-plonk, you can just run past... which normally I'd despise, in a run/gun - but it fits the horror aesthetic of a furiously-spreading plague that'll only swallow you up, best cut off at the source via extreme ultraviolence). Midpoint firefight with zombies, Rebels and helis has some nice RNG pincer pressure.

MONKEY GETS HIS COCK OUT :shock:
Spoiler
Image

Wait - you wanted monkey cock? Ho-Ho-HOOOLY SHIT THAT'S GAY! But so am I Image Here, don't tell anyone!

Image


Even though neither is ideal, I'll take a grindy but consistently violent (and significantly optimisable) stage over an overlong (if gorgeous and cathartic) cakewalk. Also got a couple of artfully done XTREEM CARNAGE + CAN'T DODGE FOR SHIT sequences, namely this Image and the zombie-powered boss speedkill (the only place you should use zombie form!).

CUTE BRUNETTE TAKES SIX GUYS THEN BARFS ON DICK :shock:
Spoiler
Image


Some first-rate tyrant juggernaut aesthetic there, a nigh-unstoppable force. Image
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by BrianC »

Sumez wrote: Wow, that's a fantastic site. Did you go through every single room in one map and compared it to the other map in order to identify the 10 levels shared??
I did compare maps, but the map descriptions for the later versions of games mention which rooms are shared and the rooms are numbered, making things much easier.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Stevens »

With the advent of the 1.0 release I am back at Prodeus. Thoughts - though bear in mind it is my least played genre.

It's pretty good. Fast paced, fun weapons, level design is great, good to great user content, bloody, visceral, and a head banging ost. Looking forward to more user content: )
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
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Equinox

Post by Sumez »

Last weekend I played around a bit with Equinox (SNES) after a friend started playing it. He gave up on it after the first boss, which is pretty much as far as I've ever played the game, but just watching him play it I felt encouraged to give the game a new go, despite being unable to really get dragged in by it in the past.

I'm a pretty big fan of Solstice, and consider it one of the few really unsung gems of the NES. I think most people just rock out to the title theme and then dismiss is as typical Software Creations jank, which is totally unfair - but I'll admit it takes some dedication to really "get" the game. As a kid I only did it because NES games were stupid expensive and I had like four games in total to spend all my time on.

Anyway, right off the bat, Equinox (its fully fledged sequel) feels like a bit of a different direction. There's a rough overworld where you enter multiple smaller dungeons, and you immediately find a weapon allowing you to combat all enemies on your way. Compare Solstice's singular massive Metroidvania-style dungeon, relying entirely on puzzle solving and evading enemies rather than facing them.
But as I finally learned this time around, you don't really need to get too far into the game before those dungeons start growing absolutely massive, and every single new overworld area (as in, new islands reachable after beating each boss) introduces completely new puzzle elements in their dungeons, and combat is almost immediately reduced to a puzzle affair, where quick reactions mean nothing, and a strategic approach is essential. You also absolutely need to draw your own maps (or at the very least make notes of places of interest - there is no ingame map, but every room is named via an abstract coordinate system) which was a winning strategy in Solstice as well. All in all, Equinox is much more of a fullblooded sequel than I thought back in the days.


The most common point of criticism you'll see of the game, is the complete lack of depth perception in the isometric view, combined with a very abundant use of the Z axis, making it objectively impossible to actually gauge the precise location of platforms in 3D space. The lack of a drop shadow underneath your character while jumping doesn't help either.
The thing about this is that most of the occasions where a platform isn't located where you'd immediately assume, it's actually employed as a completely intentional aspect of the puzzle, with certain rooms where the z-location of floating platforms is so absolutely insane and illogical that the entire room feels like a non-euclidian escher painting. These puzzles typically end up relying on a lot of pure trial-and-error, mitigated only by contextual guesswork. I don't know if it's good puzzle design, but it's kinda really fascinating, and every single room tends to invite completely new ways of thinking and approaching the solutions. As I played I'd soon gathered quite an audience, with everyone throwing inputs for potential solutions my way as I played, which turned out to be a very enjoyable social way to explore the game.

A more valid annoyance in the game is the incredibly slow walking speed of the main character. This is well balanced against the intended puzzle nature of many enemy encounters, but when you are just trying to traverse the map, it becomes rather infuriating. Solstice wasn't this slow, and the rooms in Equinox are generally larger, so it sticks out even more.

I'm gonna fire up my own copy at home soon, and start from the beginning on a fresh save, this is a game that deserves a lot more attention than I have given it in the past.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by WelshMegalodon »

It's wild to me that the Commodore 64 received as many RPG ports as it did. There are even cases like Pool of Radiance where development for the C64 appears to have been prioritized over conversions to more capable machines. The marginally nicer graphics and sound don't compensate for the fact that Commodore disk drives were unbearably slow - even with an Epyx Fast Load software like The Bard's Tale takes ages just to get to the title screen. (Compatibility for other carts with fast loaders, like the Action Replay 6, appear to be spotty at best.) What's more, most RPGs don't appear to have support for multiple disk drives, and I don't think any of them can even be installed to a hard drive - not that C64 hard drives appeared to be particularly popular given how expensive they were at the time.

There are kernel-based solutions like JiffyDOS that outspeed many fastloader carts and don't have compatibility issues. With these, load times for some titles almost become reasonable...
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by vol.2 »

WelshMegalodon wrote:It's wild to me that the Commodore 64 received as many RPG ports as it did. There are even cases like Pool of Radiance where development for the C64 appears to have been prioritized over conversions to more capable machines. The marginally nicer graphics and sound don't compensate for the fact that Commodore disk drives were unbearably slow
So, there were actually pretty good reasons for this. The SSI stuff was generally better on C64 than the Apple or early DOS with shitty CGA graphics, and they had an established pipeline for pumping them out. Games like Phantasie and Questron and Wizard's Crown looked and sounded much, much better on the C64 than other systems. Obviously the Amiga and Atari ST were better once they came along, but both of those systems cost a lot more than the C64, and there was a very large user-base of C64 owners ready to buy SSI games when they were released. I played all the Gold Box games on DOS, but I had to play POR in monochrome with a PC speaker because my family only had a little amber-colored 9" XT luggable thing that my dad used for doing his billing. My parent's wouldn't buy me a C64, but I would have preferred it to the machine I was playing it on. Also, we didn't have an HDD in that machine, so I had to play off disk and had a save game disk. It wasn't as long as a C64, but I certainly had to wait for stuff to load.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by WelshMegalodon »

So what you're saying is that the C64 was favored as a gaming platform since it happened to be the best-looking, best-sounding, and most widely used platform in its price range, even into the late 80s, and loading times were ubiquitous at the time since HDDs were still uncommon. Makes sense.

I can see now why computer RPGs remained a niche market in the US for so long.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by vol.2 »

WelshMegalodon wrote:So what you're saying is that the C64 was favored as a gaming platform since it happened to be the best-looking, best-sounding, and most widely used platform in its price range, even into the late 80s, and loading times were ubiquitous at the time since HDDs were still uncommon. Makes sense.

I can see now why computer RPGs remained a niche market in the US for so long.
Yep. A C64 could be had for $150 by 1988, and the complexity of the games was much, much better than an Atari 2600.

To complicate things even more, the NES had already taken hold in the US, and kid's gaming preferences were being established there (and in the arcades). It wasn't really until the NES started having RPG releases (Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy) that a lot of kids here got their first taste of any RPG.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Ghegs »

Speaking of Lolo and its ilk (y'know, a week ago), I got my Kickstarted physical copy of Roniu's Tale on NES a little while ago and just beat it. It was okay, but at less than 50 puzzles it's not very long, and the puzzles were pretty easy overall. Only a few I had to think about, even the later ones were pretty quickly figured out. I do appreciate how there seems to be several ways of beating some puzzles. It does have a life system and the password only returns you to the start of the floor (each floor can have up to 9 puzzles), which I guess was to balance out the low difficult.

It's sort of a combination between Pyramids of Ra and Lolo. Movement is grid-based, and every tile you step off of is destroyed. You have powers like shooting fireballs and jumping over gaps, but their usage is limited to few times per stage. Stationary turret-type enemies and ones moving along a set path are common. There aren't any hidden things so each puzzle can be solved just by staring at it, though there are some puzzles that require action within the first few seconds due to the aforementioned enemies.

I would've preferred harder puzzles and removing the lives so that each puzzle can be tried as much as one wants. And more of them, of course.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Sengoku Strider »

I've had Shenmue III sitting on the shelf since not too long after it came out. I knew it was the type of thing I'd have to wait until I was really in the mood for, not a thing to be forced. I'm glad I did wait on it. The game is ultra slow, at least the way I'm playing it going for the trophies. This is another one of those titles where the trophies fit well imo, because in the previous games I had little motivation to spend piles of limited resources on capsule toys, random knick knacks and dodgy street gambling. The additional incentivization brings side elements like that more fully into the game. There's rarely a fishing mini game that I won't skip, but they've got me going for it here.

As for the game itself, the general take that it's more Shenmue is bang on. Like, if this game out 1 or 2 years after Shenmue II did I'm not sure how different it would have been. If you liked those games I see no reason you wouldn't get into this, but if you didn't I'm not sure what it would do to sway you. I can see why it landed with a thud, though. Stuff like Assassin's Creed, Elder Scrolls and of course Yakuza spent 20 years building on the foundation it laid. They solved the "there's no moment to moment action" problem - which isn't really a problem per se, just a necessity for keeping the mass market's attention. Shenmue's a game that demands you accede to its pacing, its adherence to real world-ish rules. Ryo even gets tired & hungry throughout the day in this one, something that I'm sure didn't endear it to anyone without the patience to stroll through its environs rather than dash everywhere.

The one big elephant in the room with this one is the dialogue. It's exactly as clunky and wooden as it's ever been, and there's a LOT of it. Like, a lot a lot:

Image

You can tell the translators were just given a massive script full of lines with little or no descriptive context, a lot of it is oddly mistranslated compared to the spoken Japanese dialogue. But even with total accuracy, it wouldn't change how robotic it is. One of the most revelatory elements of Shenmue II was the final act where you finally meet Shenhua. You just go on this really, really long walk (or run) to her village in China's rural interior. Throughout you have a branching conversation of a complexity that nothing had ever come close to at that point. She really was the most complex digital character I'd ever encountered by far, and that journey was like really getting to know a person. It was one of those things that impacted me on a personal level in a way I'll never forget.

The problem is that in the intervening years, Naughty Dog absolutely mastered fluid, lifelike dialogue in gaming. So even though Shenmue III presents you with plenty of branching conversations, they're going to seem weird or amateurish to anyone who doesn't find their style quirky or quaint. But even then, I'm one of those people who absolutely "gets" Shenmue and has from the moment I picked it up, but it still stretches and occasionally snaps my own capacity to buy into it. Here's a sample:

Shenhua: Ryo.

Ryo: Yes, Shen Hua.

Shenhua: What were you like when you were a boy?

Ryo: {picks dialogue option} I was always really focused on martial arts. My father made sure that I always trained hard every day. He never took it easy on me no matter what.

Ryo: Shen Hua.

Shenhua: Yes, Ryo.

Ryo: What were you like as a girl?

Shenhua: I was always playing with animals, they speak to me and warn me about bad weather coming or other things. They're very helpful.

Ryo: Really?

Shenhua: Yes.

Shenhua: Ryo.

Ryo: Yes, Shen Hua.

Shenhua: It's getting late, you should go to bed.

Ryo: Oh, it's already that time. I'm going to bed.

Shenhua: Yes.

....

And on and on it goes. Some situations are better scripted than others, but this was the stuff of memes back in 2001. In 2022 it just comes across as a design fumble that has you questioning Suzuki's thought processes here. Fortunately it's not enough to prevent a character like Shenhua becoming endearing or forming an attachment with her as your choices affect how close she gets to you. Nonetheless, I don't know if it was a budget or time thing, but I don't understand why they'd script things this way.

The visuals are nice, and of the quality one would hope for. At least they didn't get stuck having to shortchange the audience in that regard. I will say though, they really went HAM with the skybox day-night cycle and lighting effects. Like, whatever artist did this is like the Eddie Van Halen of the saturation slider:

Image

Image

Shenmue fields forever...
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Sumez
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Sumez »

Kinda surprised to see Yahtzee echoing my thoughts on Secret of Monkey Island pretty much to a tee. Right down to the ridiculous reliance on memberberries, the unsatisfying nature of the puzzles, and the backwards structure of the game where everything before chapter 4 feels pointless.

Zero Punctuation: Return to Monkey Island

He's generally bad at understanding classic action games and views most evolutions in video game design as indisputable improvements, so I half expected him to support the narrative that "moon logic puzzles are an awful relic of the past", but I was happy to see him taking the exact opposite stance.

Even his comments on the ending is almost word for word my criticism of the ending to Thimbleweed Park, but it's a good fit for Return to Monke as well.
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MOSQUITO FIGHTER
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by MOSQUITO FIGHTER »

Gran Turismo 7

I usually don’t care for these games. If fact I used to really hate on these games when they were at the peak of their popularity with Gran Turismo 2. But I’ve really been getting into this one.

I think it’s because I’m so tired of all this open world junk that plays like they just randomly dumped a bunch of crap wherever on a map and called it a day. It’s nice to race through a tightly designed course for a change. It’s almost like getting to play a well designed level. The tight walls on the Tokyo expressway course really reeled me in. It keeps you so focused with the tight walls and limited movement. Like blasting down a tight corridor in Star Fox or something. Who needs open world stuff. Way cooler and intense. Awesome track. I’ve been hooked ever since.

Noodling around with car designs and cluelessly trying to tune cars is just icing on the cake. Playing a game with an actual soundtrack and not just sound effects even is giving me different vibes. So many games these days are just sound effects. It really feels kind of dull. Even if a lot of the soundtrack choices here are questionable and quirky. The techno remixes of the classical and ragtime songs are so weird. Lots of jazzy type stuff here too.

Barely dipped my toe into the online racing but it seems to run fairly well and I’ll probably get hooked on that too.

Can’t believe I hated on this series for so long. Guess I went off the track once back in the day and was so pissed off I never tried again. Really does seem like the old ones were more difficult. Guess I should try them again and see.

Even though I’m playing it on the PS4 Pro I’m still finding it to be graphically impressive with fairly minimal loading times.
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To Far Away Times
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by To Far Away Times »

I've not played GT7 but there was a time in my life when I was all about those games. I put a lot of time into the first 4 games. GT5 was bad sequel with a really regrettable decision to include PS1 and PS2 car models along side PS3 models - some cars had cockpits and some didn't as well - and it just had this aura of cheapness and lack of care put into it. I bounced off the series after that.

A lot of times a bad sequel will sell well, but it will hurt the next few games in the series, even if the sequels are better.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by guigui »

Thanks for the read MOSQUITO FIGHTER, I like someone changing his opinion sometimes.

I've always been an "arcade" racer guy (Wipeout, Karts), but now I feel like trying a car simulation game ala GT or Forza. Though I only play on the Switch nowadays. What is the closest I could find on this system ?
Bravo jolie Ln, tu as trouvé : l'armée de l'air c'est là où on peut te tenir par la main.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Ghegs »

guigui wrote:Thanks for the read MOSQUITO FIGHTER, I like someone changing his opinion sometimes.

I've always been an "arcade" racer guy (Wipeout, Karts), but now I feel like trying a car simulation game ala GT or Forza. Though I only play on the Switch nowadays. What is the closest I could find on this system ?
GRID Autosport, probably. There's also a few official WRC games available if rallying is your thing, though personally I think Rush Rally 3 is the best.
No matter how good a game is, somebody will always hate it. No matter how bad a game is, somebody will always love it.

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guigui
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by guigui »

Not surprising to hear from you Ghegs. Yes I remember trying Rush Rally, but could not quite stick to it. I guess it was too much focused on ... rally ?
I'll keep an eye on GRID Autosport, looks quite promising indeed.

I also got Rise Race The Future, and this one is very nice too. I cannot control the drift correctly for now, but think gameplay is very good.
Bravo jolie Ln, tu as trouvé : l'armée de l'air c'est là où on peut te tenir par la main.
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vol.2
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by vol.2 »

Again playing Doom. I downloaded Fast Doom and I've been messing around with the neat downscaled modes. My favorite is the Hercules monochrome mode with dithering. It looks amazing on an old VGA monitor played in DOSBox.

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Sima Tuna
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Sima Tuna »

I've actually been diving into Gran Turismo 5 and loving it. I deliberately skipped GT7 because of the online, microtransactions etc. I've heard from everyone that GT7 is an amazing game, but it's wrapped in a really bullshitty, greedy megacorp skinnerbox.

I'll probably go from GT5 to either GT4 or GT6. The online service for the ps3 era GT games has ended, but afaik you can still play all the offline content without any problem. I'm up to the A-spec Expert races now and haven't really touched licenses or any other part of the game. The hardest part of GT5 so far has been figuring out which cars to invest in for specific cups. If it were up to me, I'd race nothing but japanese tuners (muh supra! muh skyline! muh tofu box!) for all the cups, but that would somewhat ruin the flavor.

Hotshot Racing is pretty good on the Switch, FYI. It's a pure arcade racer and clearly influenced by the likes of Daytona USA, Virtua Racing and the Sonic racing games.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Stevens »

Paging MM -

Have you seen Nitro Kid?

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1709050/Nitro_Kid/

I've not played it, but I know you dig deck builders.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Air Master Burst »

Stevens wrote:Paging MM -

Have you seen Nitro Kid?

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1709050/Nitro_Kid/

I've not played it, but I know you dig deck builders.
I realize I'm not the person you asked, but I will give you a full impression after my next paycheck since I love everything I see here and I must have it!

ETA: Fights in Tight Spaces is one of my favorites and this is giving me similar vibes. Apparently there was a limited time demo I missed, but it's not like this wasn't gonna be an instabuy for me anyway.
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Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Mischief Maker »

Stevens wrote:Paging MM -

Have you seen Nitro Kid?

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1709050/Nitro_Kid/

I've not played it, but I know you dig deck builders.
If it comes out on GOG I'll be all over it!

(I get that two of the characters are Bruce Lee and Mike Tyson, but who's the gun lady supposed to be? Sarah Conner?)

Right now my current obsession is Roguebook. It's kind of like a goldibox game that lies in between the intimate character-action-based cards of Slay the Spire and the sprawling squad-summoning with extremely freeform card upgrading of Monster Train. And I adore the artstyle, especially coming off the grey/brown/red horror aesthetics of Tainted Grail: Conquest (an excellent game itself, just ugly).
Air Master Burst wrote:ETA: Fights in Tight Spaces is one of my favorites and this is giving me similar vibes.
As a fan of deckbuilder/tactics hybrids, have you tried Trials of Fire yet? It's like a version of Gloomhaven made with PC controls in mind that plays way better to me than the official Gloomhaven port.
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An oligarch walks in and grabs nine cookies for himself.

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