Mega Man Miscellanies

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Sima Tuna
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by Sima Tuna »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
Sima Tuna wrote:I've heard people say (on youtube and elsewhere) that they found MM6's weapon set disappointing. I just can't see it.
I've seen it mentioned too in discussions elsewhere, and it's usually prefaced with something like "why would I use anything other than Rush Power / Jet?". It might be a case of they're coming from MM5 and used to using nothing but charged shots as its boss weapons are relatively useless... Just a bit of experimentation and they'd learn to appreciate MM6's toolset!
Even if we accept that false dichotomy, their argument is basically "why would I use anything other than these 3 things which are all different?"

Which is like... No shit, buddy. You just named 3 different things. Charged Buster. Jet Mega. Power Mega. All of these have their pros and cons and situations where their use is optimal. The charged buster is kinda bad against Mets, but the Punch tears through them. The Jet lets you lemon-shot enemies who are positioned at the top of the screen.

But of course, that IS a false dichotomy. Because the Fire Blast, Knight Crusher and Silver Tomahawk are really, really solid weapons. There are many situations where they are superior choices to the 3 mega man forms. And there are some platforming segments trivialized by plant barrier, which are still really hard even with Jet Mega.

If you compare to Mega Man 2... Now, I liked Mega Man 2 when I beat it recently. But the whole game is just Metal Blades. You can use Quick Boomerangs too, and Bubble Lead in some spots. Maybe Leaf Shield. But in all of those situations where you could use another weapon, Metal Blades are often superior. Almost the entire game is Metal Blade spam. 4 out of 8 bosses fall to Metal Blade IIRC.

Mega Man 5, the entire game is charged mega buster. You can't even use anything else because every weapon sucks massive donger, whereas the charged shot is the best it's ever been in the series.

Maybe it is an MM5 hang-on effect, where players come into MM6 with that MM5 mindset. I mean, MM6 isn't a very hard game. You can theoretically beat it using whatever weapons you want. I'm sure charged shot *can* work in most situations. Because MM6 is an easy game. But that doesn't mean using one weapon is optimal, especially when the new weapons are so much fun.
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NYN
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nah, skipped that one

Post by NYN »

Sima Tuna wrote:Mega Man 9: Haven't played yet.

I love MM10. It is probably my favorite Mega Man game. I used to play it a ton on Wii. Probably the only game I played a ton on Wii, honestly.
Say here, you played and well received MM10 on original Wii, yet never played MM9 on the same system? How come?
You didn't trust the bygone hype of a game that some find responsible in bringing "new" retro games back to the fore (and all the pain that brings)?
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Sima Tuna
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Re: nah, skipped that one

Post by Sima Tuna »

NYN wrote:
Sima Tuna wrote:Mega Man 9: Haven't played yet.

I love MM10. It is probably my favorite Mega Man game. I used to play it a ton on Wii. Probably the only game I played a ton on Wii, honestly.
Say here, you played and well received MM10 on original Wii, yet never played MM9 on the same system? How come?
You didn't trust the bygone hype of a game that some find responsible in bringing "new" retro games back to the fore (and all the pain that brings)?
I sense an anecdote here...
Nah. It just wasn't on my radar for whatever reason. I bought only a couple games on wii virtual console. Chrono Trigger, Mario RPG, Metroid etc. I bought one mega man and it was mm10. Not really sure why.

I mean, that's the story with mega man games, isn't it? Most people are introduced to mega man based on whatever game they personally had. I played the ps2 collection before buying mm10, but even so, mm10 was the classic mega man game I probably played the most. When I was young, I was more interested in MM Zero, Battle Network and X.
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Austin
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by Austin »

You.. should probably play Mega Man 9. It's pretty good.
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

I was in the same boat, I played MM10 before I'd played 9. MM9 came along and I just never got around to playing it, but I encountered and played through MM10 when I was shown it later at a friend's place, and only played 9 a lot later.
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Vanguard
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by Vanguard »

Humble bundle has Mega Man 1 through 11 plus Dragon's Dogma and some other stuff for $10 right now. Not a bad deal.
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by nZero »

About as miscellaneous as it gets, but the kids found the Megaman games on the NES Classic and MM3 became their quick favorite. Anyhow the stage select theme got stuck in my head so... here's my cover version.

(The older one has started pecking out Shadow Man's theme on the keyboard too once he saw that was a thing that could be done)
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

There's a homebrew group working on a Mega Drive port of MM4, 5, and 6 in the same style as "Wily Wars". It's called "Mega Man: The Sequel Wars":

https://woodfrog.itch.io/mega-man-the-s ... pisode-red

Looks pretty good. Only MM4 is playable currently and it sounds like there's some minor bugs to be ironed out, but there's also full playthrough footage on Youtube. Honestly, I prefer the size of Mega Man to the rest of the screen over the SNES series. Mega Man 7's chunkier sprites feel a bit cumbersome somehow.

Also, why is it NOBODY in Mega Man 8 can get the word Sword right?! You've got Sword Man himself messing up the enunciation saying "I'm swordsman" and Mega Man himself pronouncing it sooward. If you're gonna add voice acting to a series, please coach the VAs. D:
nZero wrote:the stage select theme got stuck in my head so...
The music in MM3 is great for sure. Great cover version too, though I strongly recommend you never let your kids discover your Youtube account is named "drvaginashark". >w>;
Last edited by BareKnuckleRoo on Fri May 26, 2023 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sir Ilpalazzo
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

Replayed Mega Man 5 and 6 for the first time in a while.

5 is solid. It's let down pretty severely by the worst weapon set in any of the NES games, and it starts losing focus in its final stages, as 2 does, but it has capable boss fights and stages (mostly the initial eight), and it's as generally polished as 4 and 6 are. I think it's probably the least remarkable or distinguished of the series, but it's still better than the rough-edged 3.

6 rules. Its weapon set and stages are solid, and the Rush armors are both very fun, especially the power one. Its bosses are a little too simplistic compared to the other latter three NES games, but not bad. I think the game's general scenario design is a little bit below 4's - the game I would say this compares to the most closely - but the Rush armor is a fun enough mechanic that it puts 6 at around the same level.

If I were to rate the NES games, I'd probably say, off-the-cuff, 2 = 1 > 4 = 6 > 5 > 3. If I could only pick one, 2 is my favorite, but I really value 1's density and strong finale. 3 is still a fun game but it's definitely the messiest of all six. I'm looking forward to replaying 7 and 8; it's been a long time since I have.
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BrianC
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by BrianC »

MMII and IV were also ported to SNES recently, though those are more direct ports.
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To Far Away Times
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by To Far Away Times »

I remember Megaman VI being better than IV and V. Surprisingly so. Definately not a phoned in effort at the tail end of the NES life cycle.

I think the biggest surprise for me was Megaman V for GB. That game was way too good for what it was.
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Sima Tuna
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by Sima Tuna »

Mega Man V for game boy is every bit as good as the NES classics. I'd probably rank it in the top two or three classic mega man games I've played.
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BrianC
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by BrianC »

I personally found Mega Man IV on GB to be almost as good, if not as good as Mega Man V. Definitely check out the color hack for MMV. It runs in full speed GBC mode and feels closer in speed to the NES games.

I definitely agree on MM6 being underrated. I used to have the cart and found it to be great fun.
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rock my game boy mega world

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You did it.

Y'all talked about the Game Mega Rock Boy Man World Part V as some thing of relevance, so I cleared it by means of 2DS. No shop, no false weapons of limited destruction. It's all Dr Right, I guess. Except for the horrid slowdown of the under-powered original hardware. Animated objects on screen, eh? Yet when zako multiply, it's down and out. TERRA is a chump. PUNKU ROCKS! More Mega Killers, please! On the easy side, it really could use a HARD MAN MODE!

(NO) PEACE FOREVER! Reset the game for new game now.
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Re: rock my game boy mega world

Post by BrianC »

NYN wrote:Except for the horrid slowdown of the under-powered original hardware
This hack removes slowdown and plays closer to the speed of the NES games
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Sir Ilpalazzo
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

GB Mega Man 5 is rock-solid. I do think its slowdown and lowered resolution hamper it a bit (not the most interested in hacks, myself) but its level design and bosses are very good, its unique take on the charge shot is fun, and it has one of the better weapon sets, surprisingly. Its finale kicks ass, too; I really wish the series had gotten away from ending on Wily capsule fights every time. I'd probably rank it over MM3, 5, and 7.

I replayed a chunk of the X series too. X1 is a huge nostalgic favorite for me, as my first Mega Man game, but ever since playing the classic series, I've always felt it doesn't measure up, and I would say that carries forward into most of its sequels. Its excellent-feeling movement and strong core mechanics count for a lot, and make them immediately alluring games, but their level design and enemy placement / usage are so much weaker than the classic games, and it makes them border on unengaging. Even playing 1 without grabbing heart tanks leaves it as a simpler game than the NES titles.

X4 is the standout of the first four X games, at least (the ones I've played through lately). It has the best and most dense stage layouts and a lot of good boss design (even if the Sigma fight is lame top to bottom, which does deflate things a bit), and Zero is a very fun alternate playstyle; his shifted focus on building up a bigger moveset as the game goes on rules and is definitely more fun than X's standard game. X1 is reasonably solid and pleasant, and X3 is pretty comparable - but X2 stinks. It's the only one out of all these games I'd say is below par. Its levels almost never have anything going on, and its bosses are frequently abysmal, loaded with time-wasting junk and tedium. Wheel Gator is the worst robot master equivalent of the series to my knowledge, and Magna Centipede and Wire Sponge aren't far behind.
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

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What did you not like about X2 in temrs of specifics? It's one I have only like one playthrough of X2 so I don't have it solidly in mind as far as specific complaints, so I'm curious. I remember I enjoyed the upgrades more than X1, mostly because X1 absolutely sucks if you don't realize Chill Penguin really should be done first for the boots, since many stages and bosses feel like movement and dodging is designed around them (is doing Chill Penguin last a specific challenge thing?). Wheel Gator I remember having a lot of invulnerability time and hiding under the water, but I found him fairly fun and dynamic to fight. Maybe it's just because it was newish for me at the time? Morph Moth was quite lame I seem to recall, the flame weakness makes short work of his lame first phase and second phase very easily.

X1 is really good when you know about the boots though, I've played both the SNES and MS-DOS versions and they're quite fun. X3 I felt was fun too, but having to revisit specific stages not just with new dash boots but with ride armors I felt made it a bit more tedious to collect everything. Especially on a first playthrough, where you discover the existence of the powerup chips, have to locate all of them to make an informed decision, then can discover that you can wait and get all effects at once if you want. :P Zero is unfortunately too risky to use as any mistake costs him for the remainder of the playthrough which is a bit harsh. Later games making them separate playable characters was the way to go.
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

A lot of it comes down to how poor its bosses are. Wire Sponge spends a huge chunk of the fight blocking and has that lengthy rage mode animation that leaves him invulnerable, and dodging his attacks isn't actually interesting even when he is fighting you. Wheel Gator probably spends literally 60% of his fight hiding underwater invincible and all of his actual attacks are totally harmless. Magna Centipede's poison is miserable and means you're likely forced into fighting him without dashing or charge shots. Crystal Snail has some interesting attacks but also spends the majority of the fight invincible (and has that one great ability that slows down the game, making the fight drag out even longer). Gator is probably the worst of all in that fighting him with his weakness doesn't even really speed up the fight since getting hit with it always makes him dive. (Several of the minibosses stink too, like the junk bug in Morph Moth's stage - who you fight multiple times and has multiple long, unskippable, invincible animations - or that one boring one that scans you based on how many crosshairs you got hit by earlier in the stage.)

They aren't all bad; Morph Moth is reasonably fun, as are Flame Stag and Overdrive Ostrich. But the average boss quality is several steps below X1, and again I would say X1 largely has less interesting bosses than almost any of the NES entries. As far as boss weaknesses trivializing the fights, I agree, but I don't think that really excuses them being boring to fight with the buster - weaknesses completely trivialize basically every Mega Man boss and also makes them a boring formality in the process; the real, meaningful measure of how good a boss is is how interesting they are to fight with the buster.

The levels are a step down too. Ostrich's is almost entirely just a bike gimmick bit which has basically nothing going on, and Crab's is just one fight with the conceptually-cool fish miniboss and nothing else. The rest aren't overtly flawed or empty but they don't really make for either especially interesting obstacle courses or playgrounds.

I'd agree that X1 shares a bit with MM2 in that you do need some amount of foreknowledge to fully enjoy a playthrough; spending your weapons badly makes some bits of MM2's Wily Fortress miserable, as does thinking X1 has any valid first Maverick stage outside of Penguin's (which is a truly baffling design choice). I don't think it's much of a mark against the game in X1's case though, since it's such an easy mistake to not make on replays.

X3 is pretty overstuffed, I'd agree. I kind of like it - the weird alternate ways to kill Bit, Byte, and Vile, which even leads to the multilayered secret easter egg that is the Z-saber, the choice between the body, leg, and golden chips, the entirely superfluous and meaningless alternate ride armors which are still sort of cool nonetheless (though they do bog things down if you're going for full item completion to get the secret chip). I think it's more successful than X2 in that it has pretty capable stage and boss design instead of purely coasting off of its very strong core mechanics and movement, though again, like X1, it's still a sparse and unfocused-feeling game compared to all but maybe the weakest of the NES Mega Man titles (but I still think it and X1 are pretty solid and enjoyable overall).

(That said, X3's upgraded charge shot really is dogshit. Total downgrade that actually has lower effective attack power in most situations and limits your mobility by forcing you to stop moving as it's fired; it's easily the worst thing about the game.)
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Thanks, it was an interesting read! Next time I replay them I'll have to keep that in mind and pay attention to stage design differences between the games to judge them better. I also have to put in much more time with the later X games.

X3's charge shot is quite weird. It's almost like X2 and 3 tried to take a step back from the crazy powerful X1 pink shot that includes that close range backblast and multiple hits. X3's actually is quite strong, you just have to realize you can avoid the super slow shot animation on the ground by jumping or hanging onto a wall when firing, which is very odd. X3 is certainly fun to replay for all the weird alternate stuff you can do.

The X3 suit design always gives me Quick Man's head with Dust Man's square arm cannon vibes.
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Squire Grooktook
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by Squire Grooktook »

The levels in X2 are the best in the series.

They have a constant flow and momentum to them. There are very few times (like in X1 and X3) where some big tanky piece of shit regular enemy stands in your way and you have to mash them down before proceeding on (the closest thing would the scorpions but you can jump over them). Almost every single level feels structured to let you dash through them while blasting and without losing an ounce of momentum.

X1 and X4 have the most memorable presentation and atmosphere but in terms of gameplay X2 is the one I most frequently have the urge to replay.
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Sir Ilpalazzo
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

Played more Mega Man games.

7 is pretty good, but definitely below the NES games (and, broadly, the SNES X games too). I think it suffers throughout from the lowered visibility and bigger sprites. The game is largely good about not putting you in situations where you can't react to things, which is good of course, but it has the opposite problem; its levels are more slow-paced and sparse than the NES games are. Its bosses are sort of a drag too; they're very rigidly pattern-focused and often take a little too long to kill. It's not bad or anything, I'd call it perfectly adequate, but it is a step down. Very charming throughout.

8 is a pretty strong entry. It leans a little too hard on gimmicks - the snowboarding isn't compelling, Astroman's maze is annoying - but they're never too bad, and the standard stage design it does deal with is upper tier for the series. Being able to use both your buster and boss weapon at once is a fantastic change that I wish had stuck around, most of its bosses are good, and I appreciate the decision to drop E-tanks. I don't know if it's quite as strong as 4 and 6 but I'd rate it over a big chunk of the classic series and the bulk of the X series for sure.

Mega Man and Bass is pretty abrasive. It has largely decent stages that dip into irritating territory from time to time - segments that seem to call for specific weapons you may not have, a lot of enemies who have too much HP, and the series' worst, most tedious uses of yoku blocks - and bosses that are sometimes decent but who tend to hide behind i-frames far too often. The fortress stages, especially the second with its awful tank minibosses - the first takes forever, the second is an obnoxious slog - especially stink. But the game does have one of the best weapon sets in the series, surprisingly. I don't think it's a very good game but it's more slightly mediocre than awful. I played as Mega Man; maybe Bass's mobility papers over some of the game's irritations.
Squire Grooktook wrote:The levels in X2 are the best in the series.

They have a constant flow and momentum to them. There are very few times (like in X1 and X3) where some big tanky piece of shit regular enemy stands in your way and you have to mash them down before proceeding on (the closest thing would the scorpions but you can jump over them). Almost every single level feels structured to let you dash through them while blasting and without losing an ounce of momentum.

X1 and X4 have the most memorable presentation and atmosphere but in terms of gameplay X2 is the one I most frequently have the urge to replay.

I think this is true, but it's also just a function of X2 having pretty empty levels to begin with, which I don't think is a positive. The other X games will occasionally stop you with high HP enemies, but they at least offer more interesting scenarios to trip you up than X2 really ever does. And even though the stages are fairly frictionless, its bosses are consistently slogs who slow you down far more than any of those big blue guys in X1.
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by XoPachi »

Squire Grooktook wrote:The levels in X2 are the best in the series.

They have a constant flow and momentum to them. There are very few times (like in X1 and X3) where some big tanky piece of shit regular enemy stands in your way and you have to mash them down before proceeding on (the closest thing would the scorpions but you can jump over them). Almost every single level feels structured to let you dash through them while blasting and without losing an ounce of momentum.

X1 and X4 have the most memorable presentation and atmosphere but in terms of gameplay X2 is the one I most frequently have the urge to replay.
I genuinely think X 2 is easily the best of the 8. It's just my least favorite of the SNES trilogy in terms of music, but it still has plenty of bangers and has a neat instrumentation. I second that opinion of the level flow. It's the fastest Mega Man before the Zero games and the levels have so much depth to them.
I find Mega Man difficulty overrated, but X 2 has pretty good pressure to it especially with the bosses. At least the first few runs. My favorite Sigma. I love Mega Man X 2.
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by EmperorIng »

All this time later and I still haven't played Mega Man 11, I really ought to change that.
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Squire Grooktook
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Sir Ilpalazzo wrote:I think this is true, but it's also just a function of X2 having pretty empty levels to begin with, which I don't think is a positive. The other X games will occasionally stop you with high HP enemies, but they at least offer more interesting scenarios to trip you up than X2 really ever does.
Sadly I feel like this is one of those "did we play different games?" moments*. X2's stages are far from empty, their absent tanks but they're packed with zakos and stuff to shoot at while dashing and jumping. Wire Sponge and Magna Centipede stages in particular are two that always come to mind when I close my eyes and try to envision "the ideal fast paced action platformer level design", just constant dashing and jumping over hazards while blasting encroaching zakos.

*PS: hope this didn't come off too harsh. TBF I think these moments are especially inevitable here when choosing favorites with games like the X series which are all broadly very similar and differentiated by very subtle elements.
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XoPachi
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by XoPachi »

I feel like if Mega Man 11 had better music and sound, it would have been my favorite. In terms of control however, it's simply the best of the classic games. Truly a modernization of the series.
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by jd213 »

Been playing through Mega Man IV Voyage ( https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4268/ ), really like the new boss patterns and had a good time doing buster-only wins against them. This could have been a totally new game if they had redone the sprites.

Also enjoyed Rockman 2 EX and Rockman Gaiden, although those are a bit harder.
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Re: Mega Man Miscellanies

Post by blackoak »

Squire Grooktook wrote:
Sir Ilpalazzo wrote:Sadly I feel like this is one of those "did we play different games?" moments*. X2's stages are far from empty, their absent tanks but they're packed with zakos and stuff to shoot at while dashing and jumping. Wire Sponge and Magna Centipede stages in particular are two that always come to mind when I close my eyes and try to envision "the ideal fast paced action platformer level design", just constant dashing and jumping over hazards while blasting encroaching zakos.
Has anyone ever done an in-depth video review comparing the stage design of the first few X games? Or even the originals. Would be interesting. I replayed the series recently and my view of X2 improved a bit, but it's funny how much everyone's opinions differ on their individual merits.
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