Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Sumez]

Took me about a week on/off to get a Xeno Crisis 1CC, and when I finally did I did it on the Neo Geo version, which is pretty much identical to the MegaDrive version except from a new enemy type on the final stage. It's maybe slightly harder for this reason, but the difference is miniscule.
There's also a new manual button for the melee attack, but I wouldn't recommend relying on it, ever.

I agree that it's a fantastic game, and yeah enemies spawning on top of you can be an issue, though it's only really an issue with those plant type enemies that appear on the "base" stages, which is one of the reasons those are my least favourite stages (and the game starts with two of them back to back). Every other enemy is telegraphed perfectly well, and the game just generally gets a lot better from stage 3 onward.
Though the game can give you some pure crap, and mitigates it with randomized health drops, ultimately making much of your run very RNG loaded, it's still a game that relies 100% on skill, and a skilled player will win 100% of the time!

I got an MVS cart of my own recently so I can record a new run at some point, but I'm already rusty again. So my only 1CC recording is from a friend's event, where the gameplay was streaming in a smaller window for the first part, and it's accidentally recording audio from the bar instead of the game for the first half an hour. I've tried to salvage what I can of it on my YouTube upload:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMyxYp2gzf8

More people should play this game.

[Steven]

I really do not like the controls on the Neo Geo version at all. Glad I bought the digital version and put that on my NeoSD Pro instead of the 300 pounds or whatever it was for the AES cart. MD version and especially the Dreamcast version have much better controls. They did what they could with the Neo Geo, but I don't prefer it to the other versions' controls.

I do need to go get the no miss on the game; my best result was a death on the final stage, which made me sad. I haven't really played it since then, so I should probably go get revenge. It really is one of the best games on the Mega Drive.

[Sumez]

No-miss Xeno Crisis??? I can't imagine ever going for that. There's a reason the game has semi-frequent medkit drops, it's near impossible to never take a hit.

I'm not sure what you like about the MegaDrive controls over the Neo Geo ones? They are exactly the same, except from the manual knife button which doesn't matter because it still comes out automatically.

[Steven]

Something tells me you've been playing it on the Mega Drive with a 3 button controller. Play it with a 6 button controller and it becomes a completely different (and way better) game.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Does the NG version control like Shock Troopers (or the 3-buttons MD version)? And is there any extra content in the DC version like there is on the NG?

[BrianC]

I'm not sure about extra content, but the DC version does support the VOOT Twin Sticks.

[Austin]

I finally got around to learning Shadow of the Ninja on the NES. Sorta long overdue on that one, given I've been a fan of Shatterhand for so long. SotN is a little anemic by comparison with the route through the game being about the same every time you play, but it was still fun. Bosses were decent, and the hook shot/harpoon/whatever is a pretty solid mix up on typical NES game attacks.

I'm not sure if this falls within this thread, but it is most certainly scrolling action: I learned Ranger X on the Genesis/Megadrive this week. Had only dabbled with it briefly back in the day and it didn't leave much of a mark, but it's always been on my to-do list. Man, I wish I got to it sooner, it's an awesome game. Visually impressive but the gameplay is quite unique and flows pretty well when you get the hang of things. Tough at first but easily doable when you know what you are doing. I learned it on Normal, but am going to have to attempt the higher difficulties and see what it's like there.

[BIL]

Kage/SOTN (two equally confusing shorthands ) suffers a bit from middle child syndrome in the Natsume FC Power Trio. Not an instant slash/blast ala Dragon Fighter, nor the tactile masterwork of ShatterBrain. Some of its subweapon mechanics are just bizarre, too - Natsume did well to shave them away for the game's quasi-sequel, Ninja Gaiden Shadow.

I still love it though. Barring a handful of cheap bumps, the stages are the kind that grow progressively more enjoyable to tear apart at learned speed, rather than diminishing into rote. st4 is particularly nuts; I never did quite nail down a replay that did its hanging elevators justice (what with the rather terrifying penalty for missing a grab!). The hanging grip mechanic is exceptionally smooth, Strider Hiryu-good.

Ex-Ranza and Valken and Leynos et al are most definitely good peeps here Ranza especially! Amongst the most singular, authoritative scrolling mecha works ever. Toshio Toyota is a diehard game center vet, apparent in Ranza's relentless pace and fine-brush detailing. A combo shared by its spiritual forebear, the immortally scintillating topdown seek/destroy Granada. Exactly the sort of chap who'd appreciate masterworks like Assault, and especially the fiendish Grobda!

[Volteccer_Jack]

Made it to stage 4 of Shinobi Non Grata. Loving it so far. Alien Soldier by way of Ninja Spirit. 4 bosses per stage, spaced out so that you play a bite-sized section of level before each.

Big change from the demo version is that the doublejump no longer has invincibility, instead you can fastfall by pressing the dodge button while in the air. I still tend to go to the air to avoid attacks simply because you're more mobile there. The dodgeroll on the ground feels pretty slow/committal and a lot of patterns are tricky to roll through. One of the subweapons is a flash that clears the screen of projectiles for the same cost as a cannon shot. It's a pretty interesting ability, the ammo cost and the fact that you need to manually switch to it makes it a premeditated option rather than a reaction. You've also got the kusarigama as a strong defensive weapon, although its hefty recovery time interferes with your ability to perform doublejumps. However the coolest way by far to avoid attacks is with the cannon's invincibility:

Spoiler

[BIL]

On one hand, holy fuck it's been a long time since I was impatient to play something. On the other, you and Stevens both digging it makes me just as happy.

[BrianC]

No-miss Xeno Crisis??? I can't imagine ever going for that. There's a reason the game has semi-frequent medkit drops, it's near impossible to never take a hit.

I'm not sure what you like about the MegaDrive controls over the Neo Geo ones? They are exactly the same, except from the manual knife button which doesn't matter because it still comes out automatically.

Megadrive version has Smash TV SNES style controls with 4 buttons controlling firing directions with a 6 button controller. AFAIK, the NeoGeo version only has the Shock Troppers style controls. IIRC, DC version does have the extra voices and remixed soundtrack, but I'm not sure if it has everything the NeoGeo version has.

[Bassa-Bassa]

So MD 3B version is like Shock Troopers and DC version is like Smash TV? Can't you use Shock Troopers style on the DC? I think it's worth knowing how the game was originally conceived and what's an afterthought. The NG version wasn't in the original plans, and having both, auto and manual melee attack at the same time sounds a bit weird. Said that, I love Shock Troopers style and play with arcade stick, so unless you emulate the MD or DC versions and configure a double stick panel for it, I'd go with NG type.

[Steven]

Does the NG version control like Shock Troopers (or the 3-buttons MD version)? And is there any extra content in the DC version like there is on the NG?

Closer to Shock Troopers than it is to the twin stick style of MD and Dreamcast, but still different from Shock Troopers.

A = roll, rotate (somewhat slowly) counterclockwise when shooting
B = shoot
C = grenade, rotate (somewhat slowly) clockwise when shooting
D = knife (don't use this, it's bad)

Playable, but overall a massive downgrade from MD and Dreamcast controls. The MD version is the original version, so I imagine the 6-button twin stick-like controls were the intent.

Can't you use Shock Troopers style on the DC?

I do not think you can, although I am not sure why you'd want to when you can use twin stick controls, which are way better. I can go check, though. You can use the actual Twin Stick controller if you want, too, but I don't have that.

Edit: yes, you can use 3-button controls if you really wanted to.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Closer to Shock Troopers than it is to the twin stick style of MD and Dreamcast, but still different from Shock Troopers.

A = roll, rotate (somewhat slowly) counterclockwise when shooting
B = shoot
C = grenade, rotate (somewhat slowly) clockwise when shooting
D = knife (don't use this, it's bad)

Lol, that's kind of a mess. It's like they don't know what an arcade panel (or a NG stick) is. You can fix the shoot (main) action being on the second button instead of the first if the config options are generous enough, but not being able to throw grenades when you're shooting is silly, specially if the manual knife action is useless.

Can't you use Shock Troopers style on the DC?

I do not think you can, although I am not sure why you'd want to when you can use twin stick controls, which are way better.

I try to avoid control pads for arcade games whenever it's possible. By the looks of it, actual double stick panels are the way to go with this game, which is a shame, because there's not an official controller like this on the MD or the NG. And the Virtual-on controller for the DC version is just not the same.

Thanks for the detailed post, as usual.


ED.- Nope, a double stick arcade panel won't work too well, forgot the grenade button. So it'd be an Assault-like panel, which I guess the Virtual-on controller isn't too far from it, for those who like it. I guess they didn't want simultaneous shooting and grenades actions as the MD 6B controller doesn't have shoulder buttons like the SNES one, so in the end 4B Shock Troopers style has to work for me.

[Steven]

I try to avoid control pads for arcade games whenever it's possible.

Good thing it isn't an arcade game, then! Well, I guess it is if you play it on the MVS and arguably the AES, but it's definitely a Mega Drive game.

Of these versions, Dreamcast version has the best controls, as it maps grenade and roll to R and L, and you can absolutely grenade when shooting in both the MD and Dreamcast versions; try the MD version with the M30 2.4g, as that maps C and Z to R and L, which makes it play identically to the Dreamcast version, just with worse sound than on Dreamcast.

I imagine the N64 version will be pretty close to the Dreamcast version, but the Gamecube version will be interesting. They probably just put the shooting on the C stick, but maybe they did something different instead.

[BIL]

Blimey that sounds complicated I just play the PS4 one like it's SFC Smash TV (cross pad = move, cross buttons = shoot), plus shoulder buttons (L/R = roll/grenade).

You can't reconfigure the controls in any way whatsoever. I think it uses L2/R2 by default for shoulders, and while I can tolerate 'em in stuff like Bloodborne, I dislike even hairtrigger analogue buttons in my binary 1HKO digital world. But the PS4 has its own button remap feature, so it's all good.

I suspect there are at least some revisions to the game itself. IIRC Sumez noticed a few from my PS4 writeup. For one thing, melee is really goddamn strong on PS4, you can take down multiple zako no problem. Very good for breakouts; autotriggers when in range ala Slug. And the roll is utterly invincible, I seem to recall hearing that was different... I'll quit speculating, you guys surely know what's up on both.

EDIT: Ah, here we go: Sumez's post noting possible differences in the PS4 rev.

Revisiting my review reminds me of the announcer's lovably schizophrenic lapses from Starship Troopers' goonery to "GAME OVER MAAAAN!" panic.

[BrianC]

I like the DC Twin Stick controls quite a bit and wish I could use the controller with more Robotron like games. The sticks are microswitched 8-way sticks.

[BIL]

Yeah I was gonna say that sounds amazing.

[Sumez]

Ok this is going way off the rails and I need to stop you guys asap!

Something tells me you've been playing it on the Mega Drive with a 3 button controller. Play it with a 6 button controller and it becomes a completely different (and way better) game.

No, I've been playing on an arcade stick. I have tried the 6-button pad controls, and though you'd assume it's the way to play, it's a little messy, and especially not good for diagonals (an actual twin stick setup would be better, but the version of the game made for modern consoles with this setup is a completely different build from the ground up, it's easier and with a ton of little differences.

While the shock troopers style control scheme does feel cumbersome at first, I find it the most enjoyable way to play by far! To master Xeno Crisis is to embrace and learn the three-button arcade style controls (though I wouldn't attempt it on a gamepad because you need a finger on each button). It took me a while to get used to, but once it clicks, the game is excellent!

[BrianC]

There's a MD+ hack for the MD version that gives you the extra voices and CD Soundtrack.

[Steven]

Well, yesterday I went to a doujin game/old game event and Ichikawa-san, the dude that made Slap Fight MD, was there. We talked for a little bit and I apologized for not having played Hover Attack yet and he was like "Oh, we have that here! Buy one! It's 6000 yen! It has a 100 page instruction manual and poster and the soundtrack and stuff!" and I was like "Uh... you have... physical copies? Okay... as long as you sign it", so he did and now I have finally played Hover Attack. It is... unique. It's not Run 2 The Right, though; it's Hover 2 The Left. You can go right, but you can't face right since you are required to face left at all times.

I guess you are a little dude/robot thing that has a hovering platform that you can and more or less have to ride on, and you hover around on it blowing things up. You can get off of the platform and walk around and shoot things, but you have limited ammo and have to refill at your hover platform thingy. You also have a jet pack type of thingy that makes you move super fast, but it has limited fuel, but it also recharges automatically and basically instantly when you are not using it. There is also a grenade, but I don't think you can get more of them, so you have to use them carefully. You can never turn right, so you have to shoot stuff when it is to your left, so you really have to think about positioning in some places. Your hovering platform thing can also shoot, but its range is horrible, so you have little choice but to dismount in order to kill most things unless you are basically touching them while riding your platform thing.

Your little robot dude and your hover thing both have separate health, and if either one is destroyed, you instantly game over. There are a shitload of things shooting at you and they shoot a lot, so you have to be careful or you will definitely die. This new release has all of the levels from the original Hover Attack and a bunch of new ones and you can make your own, it seems. I would not be surprised if you can download other people's levels, too. This game is really something. I am not really sure what it is, but it is definitely something. I have only played it for 10 minutes and need to spend way more time with it, but if you want to play something that is weird and crazy and the weirdness and craziness actually works, definitely play this.

Something tells me you've been playing it on the Mega Drive with a 3 button controller. Play it with a 6 button controller and it becomes a completely different (and way better) game.

No, I've been playing on an arcade stick. I have tried the 6-button pad controls, and though you'd assume it's the way to play, it's a little messy, and especially not good for diagonals (an actual twin stick setup would be better, but the version of the game made for modern consoles with this setup is a completely different build from the ground up, it's easier and with a ton of little differences.

While the shock troopers style control scheme does feel cumbersome at first, I find it the most enjoyable way to play by far! To master Xeno Crisis is to embrace and learn the three-button arcade style controls (though I wouldn't attempt it on a gamepad because you need a finger on each button). It took me a while to get used to, but once it clicks, the game is excellent!

I definitely do not like the 3/4 button controls at all, especially after playing the Dreamcast version. They are awkward and restrictive and you can tell it was meant for the MD's 6 button controller, and it's even better with the Dreamcast controller. Playing it as a twin stick game is definitely the best way, even if it only lets you shoot in 8 directions.

[BIL]

^ Premium on-the-ground reportage, marked for index

[Sumez]

Clever of him to attach his gross misinformation about Xeno Crisis to an indexed post XD

[BIL]

Fortunately I have a brand-new "FLAMEWAR" icon for contentious posts of great value ;3

EDIT: currently just a static Zelda fire - maybe it should be a little pepper gif. you know, like on food! green = novice mode, yellow = watch out watch out! red = BURN YOURSELF :3

[Bassa-Bassa]

Isn't it just a matter of preference between arcade stick or control pad? The former works bad with 4-buttons shooting for obvious reasons and the latter, at least if you manage to use a controller with shoulder buttons and front buttons close enough to let you do diagonal shooting easily (does a controller like that even exist, lol), works better with that method than with a shoot+roll+grenades layout, if only because you don't need to rapidly press the button to shoot freely (which, as everybody knows, sucks with a control pad but not at all with an arcade panel).

It's nice to have both thanks to MD's standard pad being 3B (and I believe we can't really know which one is the intended one), but if you can't remap the buttons, it's really a loss for arcade stick users, as the main action should always be on the first button, which is where your first finger should always stay in a shooting game.


So then again, does the DC version have the extra content from the NG version (did this one get improved visuals over the MD version, actually)? And are really N64 and Game Cube versions being made!? (What for?)

[Stevens]

Made stage 3 in SNG. Powered through with some continues to 4. Like any well designed game there is a trick for everyone.

Sometimes I need to pay more attention to shit..

[Stevens]

Made it all the way to stage 4-2

Spoiler

Giant crab

before dying, played a few more credits to learn.

EVERYONE HAS A WEAKNESS.

Stopped at stage four's big bad.

[BIL]

Enjoying Huntdown's Story Mode like an ultraviolent advent calendar, all in anticipation of Arcade Mode. I'm sure I'd have loved this just as much back at release, but tagging an AC mode on? Goddamn son, normally I have to self-regulate that stuff via single-segment runs etc. These guys are 110% the real deal, I hope we hear from them again. I sure as hell won't be waiting next time.

It really hit me last night, halfway through The Heatseekers... where EAR's God POV imparts the sense of directing and starring in a black-comedic spy thriller, HD's judiciously-superhuman moveset makes me feel like the killer in a slasher flick. "Jimmy was one tough sonofabitch! An' this mothafucka just kicked the shit outta him like he was a fockin hacksack while we was takin a piss! It's like he was killed by a GHOST or somethin!" The dedicated [down+dash] lightning murderstomp is POIFECT for picking off squads one-by-one - I can't believe I've never seen it before, what a superb riff on the ol' Contra drop-down. At the same time - exactly like EAR - while these motherfuckers are a little slow on the uptake, they're aggressive once stirred, and they know how to dig into the terrain, too. Delightful sense of being the most popular guy in the room as bad bastards swarm in from all angles, not knowing they are hopelessly tracked by Godcam.

The HS's shift to slightly glossier - but still thoroughly grim - Blade Runneresque skylines was a wonderful surprise. The Dolls start off Splatterpunk, and the Misconducts get into outright Warriors/Apocalypse Now/EFNY batshittery... it's nice to get a bit of *cough* fresh air after all that ghastly business down below. Super-keen infernally catchy pop-metal BGM choice too, let's fukken RAWWWK

The VAs must've had a blast with this. Those death screams from the jetpackers as they careen to their doom... absolutely off the fuckin leash, all restraint willfully discarded for bellowing/yowling animal terror, no sublety what-so-ever. Enemies punted down holes / off buildings, likewise.

"GOOD GUYS wear YELLUH!" *KTHOOOM* "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!*BOOOOM*
("These homo-sapiens have learned to fly!" )

Mow Man's pitch-perfectly deadpan pitfalling "NOOO~" even better; sounds like he's gamely trying to emulate mortal terror and not quite nailing it, coming up somewhere around "Bit put out." Actually he reminds me of Michael Scott.



Still riding with my OG killbot friendo, one of countless pleasant surprises here. As Tuna said, a bit of mashing goes a long way... I'm not big on mashing normally, with a couple exceptions - one is that you actually do some damage, most definitely the case here, and two is feedback. Letting rip with Mow Deagle feels great. *BAPBAPBAPBAPBAP*

Key thing is, you don't need to rely on it. I guess you could, but that would be a terrible waste! Just pepper 'em up a bit at range, so the heavy weapons, knives, and explosives can slice through clean. More for later.

The slugger weapons are ridiculously powerful, I TOTALLY get why they don't last long, now. Fuckin rad aesthetic, actually... what does it take to shatter a solid hickory bat to splinters, or warp a pipe wrench beyond aerodynamism, or break a fuckin ironwood hockey stick? Eh, about five skulls, give/take. Depends how hard you hit 'em. *CRACK*

Mow Man's ongoing personality crisis - booming out choice Terminator and Robocop lines before sheepishly wondering what they're doing in his records - is too adorable And insightful, too! Some things are inescapable, even for the most refined. VA reminds me a lot of the wonderful Richard Ayoade, the sense of a thoroughly friendly chap in most regrettable professional circumstances.

Cor, that looks incredible. Big boot, powerslide, and HUGE SPINNING POWERUPS

I've long believed that the angular velocity of a given title's collectible items correlates directly with its confidence as a capital V video game - especially if said title is 2D and had to put in actual art effort to make it happen. Bravo.

Yes! I kept coming back to this throughout the Dolls and Misconducts' respective areas. Gorgeous as it is - and some of these deep parallax pans would've made 12y/o me weep and bust SAME TIME - this is a motherfucking capital "V" Videogame, with Visibility to match.

I remember seeing early MGS1 teasers, and knowing it wasn't going to be some Digital Pictures-esque FMV garbage once I spotted those C-Rations amongst the painstakingly-rendered base exterior, maintaining a cheerful 75rpm @ knee-height in the realistically-drifting snow.

That's a signal mark of authorial confidence and intent. I can't help admire AC Super Contra's manful dedication to HyperReal AMUSEMENT MACHINE largesse, with its weapons realistically flopping to the ground amidst all the hyperdetailed xenoviscera and exploded machine guts - that was Tsujimoto and co's chosen aesthetic, and they worked their asses off on it - but its sequel Sunset Rider's approach, also seen in Nazca's Metal Slugs - big, instantly-readable GOLD STAR and SILVER STAR - wins any day; only heightening the sense of a five-star videogame paired to world-class artistry. And of course, there's a time and a place - nobody wants the titual SUPER VEHICLE to be a little "SV" icon. It's all about balancing laser-precise readability to the grit and heft of the scrolling world.

HD even works its item levitation directly into the titular pursuit, with an enviably clever Pulp Fiction reference at that - spotted what looks like an idly-strobing police siren peeping through that exposed woodwork? Try blowing it up, might be The Briefcase

[BrianC]

So then again, does the DC version have the extra content from the NG version (did this one get improved visuals over the MD version, actually)? And are really N64 and Game Cube versions being made!? (What for?)

I'm not aware of any new stages, but the DC version does have some extra stuff like voices during cutscenes and a remixed soundtrack (pretty sure this is exclusive to DC, though the unofficial MD+ hack uses its soundtrack). Visuals are mostly based off the MD version, but there may be some extra animations here and there. Could you give more specifics on which extra content you mean? MD version already has boss rush and infinite mode, but only via cheat code, and I wasn't aware of extra stages or modes in the NeoGeo version. N64 and GCN versions are already listed for order on bitmap bureau's website, though the NeoGeo version of Final Vendetta still isn't listed.

[Sumez]

DC version is clearly based on the MD/NG builds, and not the modern console/PC build. (a big tell is how much tougher the first boss is)
Neo Geo version has the voice-overs from the latter, and seems DC has too. The Neo Geo version also has some more graphical details here and there, which seem to be missing on DC(?), but it's nothing major. And like I said there is oddly one new enemy type present on the final stage on NG which doesn't make a major difference. Can't find any footage of the DC version showing if it's there as well.