Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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BIL
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ACA Thread Crosspost ;3 ;3 ;3

Post by BIL »

Helll yeah, Tank Force is exactly what I hoped it'd be. Image Battle City on horse steroids. Image Early 80s console simplicity channeled through big honkin' 1990s arcade brass balls. Buttery-smooth handling, lovable chibi-deathmachine style, moreish like crack!

ROOM SERVICE MOTHERFUCKER Image Image

Image

ACA release includes the JP+World 2P revs, and the tantalising World 4P, which I'm gonna pester the hell out of people this weekend with. It's an amazing time in 2P frenemy mode as-is, good to have a buddy minding the house while daddy goes out to bag teh bacons. Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Randorama »

Nice to see that my ruminations on Thunder Fox found some appreciation, lads.

I have tried to play the game for score, but I need to say that it is probably not my cup of tea. The key to top scores is indeed speed (and a few tricks along the way), but this is a Taito game: glitchy as hell when played at full intensity. Still, what a pleasure to 1-LC this after all these yea...decades, even :wink:

Sumez:

All suggestions duly noted and scribbled down for the next plays, thanks. I must remember to read them before playing :wink:

I admit that I only 1-cc'ed the easier bootleg of the game, back in the day (Jumping?), so I definitely need to get used to the steep increase in difficulty after entering the third secret room. My impression is that, if I no-miss up until the sixth island, the game's rank will max out and all enemies will move at maximal speed and be very smart. If I no-miss AND enter the first three rooms, the fourth island already features ultra-fast, ultra-aggressive enemies, a fact that gives me quite a few headaches.

I need to get used to the increased difficulty, but having a decent power-up level after dying makes a huge difference. I believe that the ninth and tenth islands were simply not designed for recovery after death: if I die on some spots (e.g. most of level 36, level 39 onwards), i might as well as reset because I am still not skilled enough to deal with those stages at basic power.

I admit that I am also getting increasingly irritated by the game's difficulty, so this will be one case in which i will 1-CC the game, sooner or later, and...pretend it does not exist, from that day onwards. I may reconsider my plans of 1-CC other titles in the franchise (and long, exhausting titles more in general), some time in the future :wink:
Chomsky, Buckminster Fuller, Yunus and Glass would have played Battle Garegga, for sure.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Speaking of Taito! After the authentic Arcade Crack of 4P Tank Force (it's AMAZIN :shock:), comes ACA The New Zealand Story. Crossposting from main chat forum's ACA thread, as is my wont at these bullseye crossover occasions. :cool:
Udderdude wrote:I tried out both the new and old versions of TNZS on MAME. I think it would be nice if they added the old version to ACA. Surprised they didn't. It's practically a different game with the levels. And the enemies are MUCH less aggressive. Boomerang guys won't shoot the moment you're in their horizontal range, etc.
Yeah, I have to admit I'd hoped they would include both revs. Always a bit scattershot, bless 'em. It's not unprecedented for them to patch in other versions later (Darius Extra, Haunted Castle), so maybe they'll surprise us.

That said, for what it is, holy balls this is amazing. :o Each stage is a little self-contained killbox to explore at constant peril and time pressure, with controls simultaneously BB-cuddly (the jumping is so cute) and razor-sharp (blast those varmints, PVT! Image). Haven't seen something this simultaneously adorable yet kill-crazed since The Fairyland Story aka SPINECRUSHER BAKED GOODS LTD. Image (bomb = BOOK OF THE DEAD Image)

SENT / ON AN UNHOLY QUEST Image
Spoiler
Image


At first I thought "Why the radar, though...? Nice but there's a dozen other games I wish had it instead..." It rapidly became apparent - it's there so you've always got a rough lifeline to the exit, in the event of impending timeout - itself possible to escape, with enough initiative and nerve. Masterful Taito. Image

Image
Terry Bogard wrote:This is what makes a legend!
All these years and I never twigged the whole "flightless bird in flight-integral action game" thing. :mrgreen: Fly like an Eagle, fly like a Tomcat more like. Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Wow, I'm surprised TNZS wasn't already on ACA.

I really hope Hamster go all the way and include every arcade version of the game on their release, and not just the "canon" one seen in nearly every port or older compilation. Almost every time I see a PCB in the wild it differs from that one in several ways (complete different stage order, completely unique stages), and some are much more challenging. The typically ported version is by far the easiest, never really picking up until the final couple of stages.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Just the one version for now, sadly. 3; Still, having a good time with it. Image Seems decently challenging, although it's only been a couple hours.

What was the deal with this game's revisions, anyway? I heard the MD cart is based on "B," and the SMS cart on "A," but it never seems as neatly-delineated as Rainbow Islands vs Extra, or even Darius Old / New / Extra.

EDIT: oh nm lmao ;3 Five revs, huh... blimey. The little "for maze games fans" blurb makes me wonder if this was more of a passion project than most, haha.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Just to correct myself - according to Sayo-chan in this video, who probably knows more about the subject than I do, there are four different level sets between all the official revisions of the arcade PCB:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y41a4u6EiM

Video is a little hard to dig up, so hopefully archived here for posterity.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Excellent, thanks! Will index that. I've downloaded it for safekeeping, too - I like getting a leg up with these legendary yet sometimes myriad-revisioned titles. Gaminghell are good peeps. Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Bloodreign »

Good to see The New Zealand Story on the ACA lineup, I still play it on the Taito PS2 compilations every now and then, maybe even the NES version every once in awhile. I have the MD version too, boxed and all, but really don't touch that version all that much.

Games pretty hardcore with it's difficulty, having to make some insane jumps that require great precision unless Tiki ends up on some skewers, ready to be barbecued by the leopard seal he's out to defeat. That seal plays real world business, gotta make money somehow to pay his bills.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sanguis »

I just came across the Natsume Game Sound History Album. It is an arrange album of Natsume's FC games (mostly), all composed by Hiroyuki Iwatsuki (one of Natsume's composers). I know we are many Natsume enjoyers reading and posting in this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZl5mSbiGpI
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Randorama »

...does anyone know how...

1. Taito came up with a game set in NZ, and featuring a kiwi against a leopard seal and his hench-animals? (AU/NZ culture fad in Japan during the late '80s?);
2. Taito managed to create a whole game set in NZ without a single reference to rugby and sailing? (They're the local religions!)
3. Taito decided that the kiwi 1P chara wasn't going to curse with a thick NZ English, specifically Polynesian/Māori accent? (We needed more folklore!)

Jokes aside: I played some TNZS today and I am still wondering why stages are so uneven in stage design. From stage 3-3 onwards, stages are mostly long labyrinths with highly technical jumps.

Only the ending and closing passages of these stages feature decent amounts of enemies. Absolutely adorable game from a visual perspective, and I admit that listening to the same 30-seconds theme for 40 minutes or so does not drive me nuts, in this case.

Fun fact: I had a small crowd (waifu+guests) watching me, so somehow I was able to remember all the pixel-perfect jumps on stage 5-4. The final boss is trivial if you pick up the UFO with the laser beam. Everyone was happy about the heart-melting happy ending (Taito did those too, once in a Dual Moon).
Chomsky, Buckminster Fuller, Yunus and Glass would have played Battle Garegga, for sure.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

I do wonder... all those Kiwis in the opening cinema, and not a rugball in sight. :mrgreen: Pleasantly surprised they left the one enjoying a lazy cig unaltered, he was always my favourite.

I saw the "Heaven" Game Over sequence for the first time this weekend, and man :shock: That's one heartbreakingly analgesic little vision of letting go. For Tiki, the suffering is over. 3; Taito - can never let your guard down around 'em!

These classic Taito platformers do have quite the crowd-pulling factor, don't they? I always notice people really perk up at Mizubaku Daibouken's adorable sprites and amiable tunes. I'm sure Taito (or whichever corporate leviathan owns them these days) could make a killing in plushies.
Bloodreign wrote:That seal plays real world business, gotta make money somehow to pay his bills.
Something I'd never quite twigged until now, is the disarmingly infernal aspect it shares with later cute critter 'em up Mizubaku. There's the kidnapped frens angle, of course, but also the way both's enemies arrive through breaches in space, through which raging flames can be seen... it's kinda DOOM before DOOM really. :lol:
Sanguis wrote:I just came across the Natsume Game Sound History Album. It is an arrange album of Natsume's FC games (mostly), all composed by Hiroyuki Iwatsuki (one of Natsume's composers). I know we are many Natsume enjoyers reading and posting in this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZl5mSbiGpI
Cheers bud, will enjoy checking that out! Iwatsuki always deserves more love. His old colleague Kyohei Sada has some classic OSTs to his name, too.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Marc »

TNZS is something I've messed around with for years, but never dedicated serious time to. However, in all those years, I've literally, NEVER triggered any sort of warp. Ever.
I've seen more in 15 minutes of the AA port than I have in 25+ years i
of messing around with various Mame, ports, and conversions. How odd.
XBL & Switch: mjparker77 / PSN: BellyFullOfHell
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Randorama »

...the Heaven levels have tiny spots before the Virgin Mary (I guess) in which Tiki can jump, fall down and go back to the level he died on. You start the level again but on zero lives, and it's a definitive "game over" if you die again. On Stage 5, the spot is ridiculously small, so pixel-perfect precision is a must.

I am pretty sure that in an earlier version the Virgin Mary would say "Go and git thim, douse fickers!" to Tiki, in a perfect Christchurch accent. Then the PTA managed to get it axed, because Kiwi accents sound automatically too Bancho/Yanki/etc., of course :wink:

I am actually more or less convinced that only one version ("new version"?) has the multiple warp gates. The warps I know work like this, more or less (I am going from memory, too lazy to double-check):

1-1 -> 1-1;
1-2->1-4 (through some "limbo" stages);
1-4-> 2-4 (limbo stages again);
2-4 -> 3-1 or 3-2 (can't recall).

There should be one more warp somewhere allowing players to do 3-2->3-3.

On ST 4-1, there is a 4-1->4-4 warp, and that's it.

Players must clear ST 5 in its entirety: 5-1 and 5-2 are long labyrinths; 5-3 is a short labyrinth; 5-4 is all about pixel-perfect jumps.

Scoring is really uneven: expect to kill few enemies and thus score pebbles on ST 5-1 and 5-2. This goes back to the quirky way stages are designed in this game.
So, learn all the warps to also get extra extends, and get the point-based extends ASAP.
The kiwi fruit appears at most once in a credit and gives you 8k points: please scream "No! Tiki, you cannibal!" If you get one.

The spiritual sequel Liquid Kids is way more balanced, as far as I can remember (and the scoring system should be more complex and interesting).

Tangent:

...A Cantabrian Virgin Mary would have been great, but the thickest accents all come from the small villages from the southern parts of the Southern Island.

I had a housemate from one of those places when I was in Oz, and the other housemate from Auckland struggled to understand her from time to time (it took me one month to fully learn to understand them; in 5 years in Oz, I must have learnt to understand 20 or so dialects of English).

Also, both wrote "Rugby" in the "Religion" slot on a population census, and complained to me that they couldn't just tick a box ("Bloody Oz people and their multiple football codes!").

Monteith beers are really great, though.
Chomsky, Buckminster Fuller, Yunus and Glass would have played Battle Garegga, for sure.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

IIRC earning a second chance on most of the heaven stages requires making use of the undocumented and otherwise rarely useful floating skill, in which Tiki will fall slower if you mash the hell out of the jump button to flap his tiny wings. Such an adorable mechanic :D
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Udderdude »

With the power of autofire, you can actually float upwards very slowly .. lol. https://twitter.com/bb9_MegaDrive/statu ... 8836772865
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Randorama »

Ah yes: set autofire to the highest frequency (60 Hz in MAME, I guess), and Tiki can fly, even, but very slowly. I think that Kiwis are actually a protected species, so seeing a poor li'l birdie flapping his wings to bone-crushing frequencies, just to raise a few centimetres per second...brrr, it sounds like animal abuse :wink:

Anyway, all heaven stages are definitely platform hells, worse than 4-4 that is all about micro-jumping and positioning. If I recall correctly, Heaven can only be accessed on ST 3, ST 4 and ST 5, and each stage has its own Heaven level. I believe that death on 5-3 and 5-4 is final: Heaven can only be accessed on 5-1 and 5-2 (if death comes from a projectile weapon? Too lazy too check).
Chomsky, Buckminster Fuller, Yunus and Glass would have played Battle Garegga, for sure.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Randorama »

...so, I 1-CC'ed Rainbow Islands, old edition, twice (yesterday and today). Yesterday felt almost like a fluke: I only completed the diamonds sequence on ST 6, entered the secret room and obtained the permanent fairy power-up (the fairy will remain even if you die).

It was easy to clear the game by using the fairy on hairier parts (especially the last two islands), so I was tempted to consider it a random stroke of (huge) luck.

Today I just obtained another 1-CC in which, I swear, I was showered with extra power-ups, in particular the three necklaces (purple=star shower killing enemies; red=red star bomb when jumping; green=red star bombing when crushing a rainbow).

So, I believe that the old version is more generous with the extra power-ups, when compared to the new version. In general, I get the impression that if the player comboes enemies (i.e. kills more than 1 enemy with a single rainbow crush), the frequency and power of the aforementioned power-ups increase.

In one run, I received wings (tap jump to fly: x2), the clock (stop enemies), the santa claus mantle (invincibility: ST 40, so the final stage was a walk in the park), the green necklace something like 4 times, the other two necklaces one time (two times?) each, the rainbow potion once, and tons of red star bombs as well (ST 36 was a breeze thanks to these bombs).

I was playing at dipswitch settings for sure, so I was wondering if I simply triggered some special feature/conditions in the game. We all know that this title has layers and layers of secrets, so I spent the whole time wondering if I did something special right after booting the game (unlikely).

Right now I am happy and relieved in equal parts. Happy because this was another 30+years-grudge (35 years, i.e. since its release) to solve; relieved because I spent three months mostly getting stuck on the last two islands. The game is long and hard, and I do not have the patience and stamina anymore, for ~1-hour marathons.

I had a few credits in the last 2 weeks or so in which I was also getting really pissed off. The difficulty was at times overwhelming - this is a title that demands attention and a fresh mind, and getting mauled because the enemies are too fast and smart for my tired brain was at times absolutely infuriating. I mean, at least once I had to do one-hand push-ups as an alternative to scream like an animal...

I will never doubt that it is a masterpiece, but right Rainbow Islands can certainly go and fuck itself, and the programmers better find a place to hide, if I ever set foot again in Japan. Soothing game my ass, MTJ! I am never playing this LGBTOKF+-?!"1etc. crypto-propaganda in my life, ever again! :evil: :evil: :evil:








(...starts another credit while nobody watches).
Chomsky, Buckminster Fuller, Yunus and Glass would have played Battle Garegga, for sure.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Randorama wrote:...so, I 1-CC'ed Rainbow Islands, old edition, twice (yesterday and today). Yesterday felt almost like a fluke: I only completed the diamonds sequence on ST 6, entered the secret room and obtained the permanent fairy power-up (the fairy will remain even if you die).
WTF! That's impressive!
I've played the game for years, and I can't do that. How did you not do the sequence on the early islands where it's super easy, but managed to do it on st6 where any misstep will screw it up? :P
Randorama wrote: Today I just obtained another 1-CC in which, I swear, I was showered with extra power-ups, in particular the three necklaces (purple=star shower killing enemies; red=red star bomb when jumping; green=red star bombing when crushing a rainbow).
These are all designed to appear very often, particularly the red tiara which spawns from killing lots of enemies with yellow stars. I think the game is completely designed around giving you these occasional lucky streaks scattered reasonably "randomly" across a single run, and the timing of when you get them can definitely tweak the challenge level of individual stages. Getting one throughout the middle of round 35 can make a 1CC a lot more doable.
Same with the invincibility cloak which specifically only appears after having died a lot. If you play on a PCB that hasn't been reset though, there's a chance you'll get two in a run since every counter tallies across play sessions.

EDIT: Nothing in the game actually appears randomly, but I'm sure you know that. Like in Bubble Bobble, the game tracks a ton of internal counters based on things that happen, and those counters reaching certain numbers will trigger powerup items added to the queue.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

While we're on the subject of Mitsuji-san (PBUH), what's a good Beginner Goalz™ for Bubble Bobble? Every time I sit down with it, I end up just going kill-crazy before carking it fairly early on. I love it but I get the feeling I'm missing the big picture. Pls advise this old killer who WTB new tricks :cool:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Not sure what you mean by beginner goals.
If you're looking for some milestones in terms of progression, I'd say the secret doors are a pretty good metric.

Reach rounds 20, 30, 40, and 50 without taking a death. The first three give you a much higher score than pretty much anything else in the game. The last jumps 30 rounds ahead to #80 - which sounds like a bad thing if you're going for score, but essentially those rounds are some of the harder in the game, and don't have very high scoring potential compared to the later ones.

Bubble Bobble in general does suffer from slight gradius syndrome. Your first death will very easily chain into multiple successive ones, since regaining your lost powerups can take a while, and the massive score gain from staying alive for at least 40 rounds means you can screw up a run quite easily. :P


Also, everything I said in this post: https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.p ... 6#p1250066
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Sumez wrote:If you're looking for some milestones in terms of progression, I'd say the secret doors are a pretty good metric.

Reach rounds 20, 30, 40, and 50 without taking a death.
Hoho! Excellent, precisely what I was looking for. :cool:
Bubble Bobble in general does suffer from slight gradius syndrome. Your first death will very easily chain into multiple successive ones, since regaining your lost powerups can take a while, and the massive score gain from staying alive for at least 40 rounds means you can screw up a run quite easily. :P
This too! Ta bud, I was a little in the dark as to how significant deaths are in this game. (Garegga-esque Bob Ross "Whoops! Ok, the 1LC is now a PB score run!" vs Gradius "U GON GET FUCC NAO BOI")
Also, everything I said in this post: https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.p ... 6#p1250066
My favourite post ITT Image Also this one legit changed me fookin life m8 ;-;7 Would never have given Hamster a second look back then without such a sterling endorsement, after the PS2 Oretachi Gesen fiasco.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Randorama »

Sumez:

I was under the impression that you could 1-CC the game consistently: maybe I could be of inspiration? Anyway:

...On the first run, I collected some powerup that automatically completes the diamonds in the intended order (...a star worth 10 pts.?) on ST 4, while I was actually panicking because I was missing the green and cyan blue diamonds. I saw the door and entered it while barely avoiding a dumb death on the Isaac robot boss.

From that point onwards, I simply played a ultra-conservative game, using the fairy to clear the trickier parts of each level. The fairy from the ST 6's secret room never disappears, so even when I died I could recover more or less easily by using the fairy to save my butt.

Frankly, I think that the fairy as a special power-up it may break the game's balance in favour of a player who knows the stages' layouts. It certainly gives protection against sudden further deaths if you die and need to recover power levels. Even so, I dropped 3-4 lives along the way: ST 10 is still a nightmare, for me.

On the second run, I think that I was consistently doing small combos and triggering more stars, and thus increasing the chances of getting more tiaras and other power-ups. I don't think that I was being "just" lucky, but in the spur of the moment I simply wasn't thinking about exactly I was doing right, just riding the results to get the big final prize.

I *did* screw during the final part of level 40 and ended up fighting the Boss Dragon/Monster 4-5 times, killing the bastard on the second-to-last life and almost yelling and punching the wall to release the tension (a "fuck off AT ONCE! I win, today!" certainly passed through my lips).

...so, I guess that I was lucky twice. I don't see myself becoming consistent and reproducing 1-CC runs at whim. I honestly feel that I was able to finally get this result because I had enough time and mental energy to put all the single-stage knowledge into a cohesive run. Anyway, in both cases I was feeling *overwhelmed* during the last two islands, though I managed to keep focus long enough.

If I were a videogame design professor, I'd give the reverse-engineering and mining of all "secrets" in this game as a master thesis to a student, or something. It is actually clear that nothing really happens at random, but I think that there may be some mechanics that are simply too specific to be discovered just by trying really, really hard. It is sometimes a challenge to believe that Taito came with this game in 1988, while shmups were still stuck at that "kill the Bydos! Shoot the giant fish!" drivel :wink:


And now a tangent (this post is, like, 2 pages in word? We all know that nobody reads my delirious rants, anyway):

My two cents (of zenny coins, of course) on the general matter of hardcore ga(y)ming are as follows.

Please forgive me if I sound patronising, annoying or anything unpleasant. I am probably going off a general tangent in the points below: I just wanted to write down some general observations passing through my head today (I am on official holidays - plenty of time to ruminate aimlessly).

1. When I was a kid (1991-1993), I played the bootleg with the ugly protagonist sprite for 2+ years and scraped a 1-CC (say: 1 hour every day, so 600+ hours?). Learning again the first 6-7 islands was not too difficult this time around, because even after...3 decades or so, some muscle memory was there. I definitely remembered the all the basic moves and more advanced strats, as well as the boss strategies;

2. I am having time to play games again, but not so much time. So, I am playing each title with save states, mental and written notes on strategies and techniques. Furthermore, I play a title until I get the 1-CC (or else). Some might say that I am "training on" or even "working with" videogames, but I prefer it this way: I may clock up to one hour in the evenings, some more during the weekends, and I force myself to learn something new every day (even just "that was a fuck up: tomorrow I should avoid it", on bad days).

3. I'd simply say that I "try hard and follow the plan with religious-like zeal", but this time around I also spent 70-80 hours over three months, on this game (and 20 hours since Monday, or something like that...). Volume of hours and methodical practice with a plan can do wonders, I guess (and save states: practicing single-stage runs and full runs afterwards does wonders for me).

I 1-cc'ed a bunch of old grudges recently, but I honestly believe that most of them would qualify as cellar dwellers/bottom pit games in a virtual "difficulty chart of arcade games" (say, Thunder Fox). Lots of late '80s/early '90s titles were easy to 1-CC, and modern use of save states can vastly decrease time requirements (you focus on the trouble sessions, figure them out, then practice runs).

I am simply using tools that I didn't have as a kid to pierce through games: I am an old bastard after a silly prize, after all (i.e. "resolve all those grudges!") :wink:

(did anyone read until this point without rolling their eyes? I would be amazed).
Chomsky, Buckminster Fuller, Yunus and Glass would have played Battle Garegga, for sure.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

No eyerolls here, in fact I'm quite comfy! Nothing like a steaming hot mug of Horlicks, a deep armchair and a heavy quilt :cool:

The way I view the Childhood vs Grown-Ass Mayne Time Dilation Effect™ vis-a-vis The Hard Gayming™ is: back in the day, besides more time, we generally had more eyes, and ears, and brains, trained on the game machine with laser fury, and when not, poring over XTREME TIPZ mags, all seeking those invaluable bragging rights that'd lead to lucrative careers, happy marriages, and *record screech* wait, fuck, where'd everybody go? And why are the magazines utter shit now? And WTF is "mortgage" :shock:

The move from thriving IRL ecosystem to niche forums populated with fellow diehards, and the compression of time from untold boyhood hours to regimented woodshedding - it's all to be expected, I think, and pretty benign where the hobby itself is concerned. Long after the outer layers have flaked away under time, and work, and other inexorable pressures, the hard core persists. Image
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Sumez
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Randorama wrote:Sumez:

I was under the impression that you could 1-CC the game consistently: maybe I could be of inspiration?
Oh yeah, I'll 1CC RI on demand, no problem. Did it last year at a live 1CC marathon, but I don't share that video often due to the guy in the background sharing racist jokes:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1119188038?t=04h20m25s
(it's also played on a slightly easier dipswitch setting which I wasn't aware of beforehand, though it makes literally no difference in how easy the game actually is, the only noticeable difference is on the first screen where I had a harder time getting the diamonds in order because enemies moved different than I was used to :P)

What I talked about was getting the diamonds in order on island 6, which I believe is a lot harder than a regular 1CC.
But as you've found out, the game remedies that with the fairy powerup which makes the rest of the game a complete pushover :P
...On the first run, I collected some powerup that automatically completes the diamonds in the intended order (...a star worth 10 pts.?) on ST 4, while I was actually panicking because I was missing the green and cyan blue diamonds.
Ah yeah... that :P
It's a rare powerup that only appears after 77 rounds have been played. So at best it requires at least two runs of the game to have been played previously without turning off the PCB, if you want it on robot island. :P
It's similar to Bubble Bobble which also requires a clean reset of the game for any serious scoring competition, since fixing the internal counters before a run could give players some really absurd advantages.
...so, I guess that I was lucky twice. I don't see myself becoming consistent and reproducing 1-CC runs at whim. I honestly feel that I was able to finally get this result because I had enough time and mental energy to put all the single-stage knowledge into a cohesive run. Anyway, in both cases I was feeling *overwhelmed* during the last two islands, though I managed to keep focus long enough.
One of the things I love about RI is that victory is never guaranteed! I say I can 1CC it on demand, but not if I go in rusty. I need to have at least a few of the Darius and BB rounds in fresh memory.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Regarding savestates, I think you'd be a fool to disregard that as a perfectly valid tool for practice. If your winning run is done legit, nothing you have done beforehand matters, get all those performance-enhancing drugs into your veins!

I rarely do it myself because of my silly adherence to original hardware, and even my Rainbow Island practice was only ever done on PCB (suffice to say it provided a massive boost to my practice when I discovered the game has a secret continue-past-island-7 code), but that's not really very effective, it's just what I feel for. One rare occurence I did it was actually when I went for my first Ninja Gaiden clear, specifically for Jaquio. Had a real hard time adjusting to playing the NES on an emulator, and had to try a few different ones before I found one with low enough input lag for the game to feel right. :P
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Randorama »

Sumez:

Sorry, I misread something :?:

So yes: I obtained the start power-up on Island 6 (level 24= out of sheer luck, but on the first credit after booting the game. From what you report, I suspect that the conjecture that the old version is a bit more generous may be true. I definitely did not play 77 rounds before, so the internal counter was possibly counting something else (or the requirement is lower?).

I was using emulation (my copies of the game are in a different country), in case. I had the same feeling for the tiaras: they were appearing more frequently than in the new version, I believe. I also remember that the silly EXTRA version of the game has much stricter conditions for getting diamonds, so I wouldn't be surprised if the "covert" settings differ from version to version.

I am not sure if I want to try a 1-CC again, but I'd be curious to know how much of a rabbit hole/Pandora's box the mechanics of this game might be, and if they indeed vary from version to version (hence the "thesis" comment).

BIRRU-sensei:

Please remind me to send you a kotatsu and some oranges as a gift in the future, for improved reading experience :wink:

I do a very "success-or-die" job for a living, so being methodical one extra hour per day is a trivial matter for me. I wouldn't even call gaming a hobby - much I like I would never claim to be a fan of any sports teams (but I do follow some), or passionate about music/literature/etc. genres (but I do listen and read stuff). I do everything with method but in moderation and with detachment, I guess?

...The National Pension Agency did tell me that I need 5 1-CC's a year to obtain a full pension if I ever retire, though, so better get those results done :lol:

General, on savestates:

I just go through old stuff in any way that allows me to figure out how to get a 1-CC on MAME or Steam ports on a default set-up. I call it a 1-CC/1-LC when I can play in manner roughly identical to the default arcade experience ("insert coin, win"), even if I try to keep track of the autofire set-ups I may use in shmups.

A fun fact is that back in the day I seldom played on defaults, because I would usually play at my uncle's arcade and he'd crank up difficulty, add autofire circuits and generally do all kinds of shady & dodgy stuff on a daily basis ("I have a family to feed and you guys play for too long anyway!").

Case in point: as a kid I 1-CC'ed Darius II after months of extenuating practice because my uncle set it to max difficulty and without autofire (the game has an auto-fire option, so no need to add buttons). I am playing it again recently and finding it rather easy to 1-CC consistently (!), on default settings.

I think that I could actually write a rather long list of games I 1-CC'ed under completely non-default settings, and I can already imagine that some people now in their late '40s would brandish pitchforks and faggots to solve grudges from 2 decades ago (...on the interwebs, of course: "The trouble with Randorama", to be read with "The Trial" (from Pink Floyd's The Wall playing in the background).

In general, due to work (I do research for a living) I tend to consider "legit" a body of work that respects written laws established and enforced by international bodies (and people who have certified degrees and qualifications that can be proven on request), and that have precise consequences if infringed (say, getting fired and never getting a job again).

The issue of legitimacy in my discipline (linguistics) has become so severe that accusations now crop up in 5-10% of reviews of papers, and any *suggestion* of misconduct can result in someone being at risk if their accusations are proven wrong, or if data collection included plain but unnoticed mistakes (i.e. "sorry, my accusations were unfounded" and "it was just a typo" doesn't cut it at all).

On gaming matters...well, do I need to write it down? (Insert a smirking face here akin to the Grendel's mask from Matt Wagner's legendary comic character).

...Besides, the National Health Agency says that stage save states are fine for practice because I have a prescription due to [ insert here "massive penis" joke written in "adult humour" style ] :wink:

Next: Pac-Man arrangement? Dig Dug Arrangement? Speaking of grudges...
Last edited by Randorama on Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:42 am, edited 3 times in total.
Chomsky, Buckminster Fuller, Yunus and Glass would have played Battle Garegga, for sure.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Randorama »

...Brief double-post:

where do the posts on "arcade sports games" go, btw?

I recently played a bit of those silly football arcade games: Taito's Kick'n Run, the Hat Trick Hero titles, the Tecmo World Cup thingie and even the top-down SNK one (it uses a rotating joystick, even!).

Taxonomy urges make me think that we should get a different thread, but we could argue that it's all R2RKMF ("score goal by kicking balls and motherfuckers to the right"), and the Kunio-kin dodgeball games would overlap with the SRPS911 thread :wink:
Chomsky, Buckminster Fuller, Yunus and Glass would have played Battle Garegga, for sure.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sima Tuna »

You should make a thread for it. Many arcade sports games are not strictly 2d or beltscrolling. There are top-down examples and arcade sports titles that don't scroll either. Virtua Racing is neither scrolling action nor 2d, but it is a fun arcade sports game.

I love arcade sports games and hate all other kinds of sports games. :lol:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Randorama wrote:Next: Pac-Man arrangement? Dig Dug Arrangement? Speaking of grudges...
Great games. I've only ever 1CC'd Pac-Man arrangement playing co-op with a friend which makes it quite a bit easier. They're both otherwise quite tough, especially Dig Dug Arrangement due to the length and the brutally hard levels you run into.

I picked up the PCB a while back for meets because I have friends who aren't really into CAVE shmups I have for my vert cab. I was rather annoyed to discover the game's screen rotation is 180 degrees away from how CAVE games are setup. This wouldn't be a problem, if it weren't for the fact there's no option in the test menu and no dip switch to rotate the screen the other way! Because I don't have a cab that's easy to rotate, I actually had to get some help installing buttons in the cab's control panel to flip the monitor (by swapping its polarity if I remember the info from the guide we followed).
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Randorama wrote:So yes: I obtained the start power-up on Island 6 (level 24= out of sheer luck, but on the first credit after booting the game. From what you report, I suspect that the old version is a bit more generous may be true. I definitely did not play 77 rounds before, so the internal counter was possibly counting something else (or the requirement is lower?).
That is really odd. I have been debugging RI in the past, and have a few memory addresses noted down somewhere (hope I can still find the notes), so I should be able to test this. I'm assuming you were playing one of the official MAME roms?
I always thought I had the "old version" though, due to the labels on my rom ICs, but I'm pretty sure the powerup distribution is completely identical to the PCB I played in that video, which is the "new version", based on the same logic.

However I do also have memories of playing a version with a different distribution of powerups though, at an arcade I used to go to. Especially the three rods that would give you various hints after completing the current round would appear constantly. I thought it might be a bootleg at first, but I got to inspect the PCB and there was no doubt it was real. I've since dismissed it as an effect of the game running all day in an arcade - even the attract mode still changes the counters I'm pretty sure - at least BB does that.

Maybe there are more versions than MAME knows about. I should dump my roms and check just to make sure.
BIL wrote: My favourite post ITT Image Also this one legit changed me fookin life m8 ;-;7 Would never have given Hamster a second look back then without such a sterling endorsement, after the PS2 Oretachi Gesen fiasco.
Awww
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