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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:08 pm 


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Can anyone confirm if that patch made it to Europe?
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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:31 am 


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Yesterday I heard DDS was posted on an early internet BBS, so it literally is a webnovel? That would explain why there's so much..... you know.... in it.

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Devil Survivor probably has the best alignment options I've ever seen in an SMT game. Every choice feels like the correct one. I think you could make a strong argument for any of the alignment options. They all feel very well thought-out and natural. This isn't one of those SMTs where you get one True Ending and every other ending is shit.


It's kind of a misconception whenever the neutral ending looks "good", it just seems that way since usually everyone gets turned into a robot in the AUCOM ending, and everyone gets eaten in the ANCAP ending. (The ANCAP ending is also definitely sanitized; there's a ton of sexual violence stuff going on in those worlds that's obviously explicitly there, but not put into the text because reasons. Very good reasons. Jesus does it make AUCOM world look a hell of a lot better; at least there would be people alive after the first day.) (Damn you SMT, you're too real... these are Things Real-life Ancaps Believe.)

The neutral endings are almost always kind of the grimmest of all: accepting the brainwashing that everything about the status quo is fine. When the ancaps and aucaps in charge of society are still using other humans as their piggybank and driving everyone headlong into an apocalypse anyway; almost always dramatized by some kind of nuclear holocaust quickly following your happy ending of hanging out with your resurrected school pals. The same school pals who just tried to murder you for their ideal world that disagrees with whatever wrong world you fought to make.

Clearly, musubi is the only thing close to a good ending. They had to tack on that hamfisted "you can't build a bridge and open a port to visit other worlds because that would make this too obviously a utopia for everyone" clause to bring it down. They've abandoned this as a possible ideal in all the later games for being too good a philosophy and awful at generating conflict, right? Everyone has to be wrong. Has to be.

Quote:
Devil Survivor 2 also suffered just a little bit for having a slightly worse story.


I always post here that I think the expanded cast and area hurt it on that metric. Having authority figures who seem to know what the hell to do really undermines things too - DS1 you're a bunch of dumb kids just struggling to not die horribly. DS2, you're part of an organization man, you've got a plan.

It's always a balance to what makes a better game, and putting more into one aspect often takes from another. Around 8-10 primary characters is pretty much the limit any story can handle before you start forgetting who the hell people are. Just think about any sitcom on television and how many primary characters they have. Monkey tribal brain has a limit.


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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:18 pm 


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BryanM wrote:
Why, Jack Bros obviously branches off the very first Megami Tensei game ever released. No, not that one, this one.

I also feel like the two Persona 2 games should be merged onto the same block, or you should at least swap Innocent Sin to the root of the tree since it came first.

I also also like how Majin Tensei 3 isn't anywhere to be seen. Yes, let us forget the darkness.

Also also also, this reminds me yet again how hard they pushed Devil Children. 10 games. 2 anime series. A manga. A cardgame with over five sets released. Ain't nobody could say they didn't try to make that work. Just too puerile and far away from an idealized world people would want to live in, imo; couldn't hang onto people into their teens. I just can't ever imagine a Devil Children gathering of 30-somethings like I've seen happen with Pokemon.

Good feedback, thanks. If English online bandying is to believed, the Devil Children manga had a reputation for traumatizing non-devil children. Hey kids, in war sometimes a sniper bags your friend right in front of you!

Spoiler: show
Image


Meanwhile, the Nocturne comedy manga plays up your hilarious demon buddies. The writer definitely had A Time with the game:

Spoiler: show
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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:37 pm 


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Mortificator wrote:
Hey kids, in war sometimes a sniper bags your friend right in front of you!


Or if read left-to-right, sometimes your friend bags a sniper right in front of you! Image

Quote:
Meanwhile, the Nocturne comedy manga plays up your hilarious demon buddies. The writer definitely had A Time with the game:


Oh wow, that looks adorable :o Only game of the series I've played, good times.
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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:05 am 



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III HD on Switch has some problems with slowdown in battle. I don't remember it having any slowdown on PS2 or PS4, so not sure what to think of this, but it doesn't break the game or anything. I still can't believe this game only has 8-way digital movement despite being originally released for a system that came with an analog controller.


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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:22 am 


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Mortificator wrote:
Good feedback, thanks. If English online bandying is to believed, the Devil Children manga had a reputation for traumatizing non-devil children. Hey kids, in war sometimes a sniper bags your friend right in front of you!


You're definitely a murder hobo in the games and plenty of people straight up die. Think one of them has genocidal angels whom the MC's brother falls in with. The light/dark anime brushes the devil murder under the rug with the "devilizing" euphemism.

There were a lot of conceptual knots they left in there, for sure. Even the real pokemon world, with the food chain and horrible natural violence and all, is more kid friendly. While magikarps are a prey species that die by the millions, who cares they're a dumb fish. The actual people are perfectly safe. But if you make the monsters into people, well, then there's some things you have to take into account. Not the least of which is how do you have endless mindless action scenes where the heroes mow down waves of people and still make it kid friendly.

Eh, there was never much heart put into them, they were cashgrabs to begin with. The original three gameboy games were the most value they provided to the world, very good for the time. Got in on a trend while it was still hot. The irony being now there's less competition in the scene: Pokemon, Digimon, Yokai Watch and... Tem-Tem. Maybe a rare Dragon Quest Monsters. Reverse survivor's bias says now's the best time to try out another franchise in this genre.


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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:08 am 


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Love that baphomet haha..

... kinda love baphomet in general :oops:
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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:24 am 


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Baphomet is a popular cat. Remember when some Satanists tried to put a statue of the guy out in front of an Oklahoma court house or whatever? So people could sit in his lap and ask for stuff? Now that's a guy I trust to deliver some xmas presents.


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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:00 am 


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Everybody loves Baphy-kun! Even (especially?) when he's rocking his occasional big honkin' bouts of gynecomastia ala Giger Image

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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:32 am 



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Steven wrote:
III HD on Switch has some problems with slowdown in battle. I don't remember it having any slowdown on PS2 or PS4, so not sure what to think of this, but it doesn't break the game or anything. I still can't believe this game only has 8-way digital movement despite being originally released for a system that came with an analog controller.

Yeah, it has some slowdown and the music sounds like shit because of the way they lazily ported it over. The Switch version may also have some lag too. I remember speedrunners complaining about the switch port compared to ps2.

For a casual playthrough, most people will probably find the Switch version fine. I did notice the absolute dogshit music quality though. You can't give me an HD port of one of the greatest ps2 soundtracks of all time and not fix up the music, bro! That's a sin deserving of the torture rack!

TBH I feel that comic demi-fiend when his demons tell him he only uses Tornado. It's pretty ridiculous how early you get that spell and how busted strong it is.


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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:53 pm 



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Sima Tuna wrote:
Steven wrote:
III HD on Switch has some problems with slowdown in battle. I don't remember it having any slowdown on PS2 or PS4, so not sure what to think of this, but it doesn't break the game or anything. I still can't believe this game only has 8-way digital movement despite being originally released for a system that came with an analog controller.

Yeah, it has some slowdown and the music sounds like shit because of the way they lazily ported it over. The Switch version may also have some lag too. I remember speedrunners complaining about the switch port compared to ps2.

For a casual playthrough, most people will probably find the Switch version fine. I did notice the absolute dogshit music quality though. You can't give me an HD port of one of the greatest ps2 soundtracks of all time and not fix up the music, bro! That's a sin deserving of the torture rack!

They really should have put the uncompressed OST versions in the HD version instead of the original super-compressed PS2 versions, but they never should have been compressed to begin with. Is the PS2 game on CD instead of DVD? It's like 0200 and I'm about to go to bed, so I'm not going to go find my PS2 copy and find out right now, but if it was on CD, maybe they have an excuse. If it's on DVD, no way in hell should it have ever had the compressed music.


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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:17 pm 


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gonna assume the PS4 version also sounds like Dogshit then?
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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:50 pm 


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Steven wrote:
Is the PS2 game on CD instead of DVD? It's like 0200 and I'm about to go to bed, so I'm not going to go find my PS2 copy and find out right now, but if it was on CD, maybe they have an excuse.


Nope, it's a nice silvery DVD, not one of those godforsaken blue CD-ROMs that make your PS2's drive rev hard enough to open a dimensional rift to hell IRL.

I remember cos the NTSCU release included a pretty nice OST sampler CD (non-game, non-blue), which I promptly ripped to FLAC for MUH BOIS on tha GAYMINGFORCE AUDIO FTP. :cool: Fucking hell, going on twenty years now. Still got that rip actually (and the discs themselves obv).
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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:25 pm 



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Blinge wrote:
gonna assume the PS4 version also sounds like Dogshit then?

Yes, but a little less so if you're running them on a CRT, I would hope. The main issue is how compressed they sound compared to recordings you can find on youtube for free.

I'd have to dig out my copy to answer that question about whether it's a CD or DVD.


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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:32 pm 


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It's a DVD, BulletManGet can permaban me if I'm wrong. Image (I mean he can permaban me regardless - but this way he won't turn around one day to find me running backwards full-steam at him spreading my ass cheeks like an IRL SMT monster, hell-bent on revenge Image Image)

This re: NTSCU "SMT: Nocturne," mind. I wonder if the NTSCJ one (or Maniax?) was on CD? Might explain a lot. I faintly recall at least one PS2 game being CD in some regions, DVD in others.
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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:10 pm 


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BIL wrote:
but this way he won't turn around one day to find me running backwards full-steam at him spreading my ass cheeks like an IRL SMT monster

You and I both know that someday this is going to happen no matter what I do or don't do. :P

Off to the side, I can confirm that the US PS2 release of Nocturne was indeed on a DVD.
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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 12:49 am 


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MYSTERY SOLVED Image Phew, thought I was gonna lose me account :shock:

BulletMagnet wrote:
You and I both know that someday this is going to happen no matter what I do or don't do. :P


True but a little plausible deniability never hurts! ;3
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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:30 am 



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One of the first things I did when I woke up this morning was to check, and yes, it is in fact a DVD, even the original Japanese release. No excuses for the compressed audio.


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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:12 am 


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Eh, I went and checked and yeah there was 3+ GB left open to them. The "good enough" for the time excuse does work with me though; you compress the stuff early on to not get jammed up by anything later, maybe it decreased loading time by like half a second (adds up when you get into a million fights every five steps), maybe it gave them more slack in RAM etc. Everything has trade offs and if most people were hearing it in mono out of a tv, eh.

It's not on the same level as THE N64 TREE OF LEGEND that's in Pokemon Sword and Shield.

Have you guys seen that tree.

I'll never forget that tree, not for a single moment for the rest of my life.

I could die, have a qualia-transfer isekai into another dimension as a fish person on a swamp planet inside a computer simulation, and I'll still be bitching about this tree to fish people who have no idea what I'm talking about.

One decade, one of them might one day think to blurble out in our fish-language "did you ever play that game?" And I'll say no, but the tree was just that bad. Then I'll blame it for giving me the cancer that killed me and sent me to this fish-sim planet.


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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:51 am 



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Actually, yeah, the encounter rate in this game is really fucking annoying. The fights are not even hard, it's just that there are SOOOOOOOOOOOO MANY OF THEM. It's nowhere near as bad as Persona 2, though; I dropped that game simply because the encounter rate is so high that you can get into a fight, take quite literally 2 or 3 steps, and then you're in battle again. Less than 1 second of time between battles = fuck no, not playing this trash.


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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:01 am 



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It's important for SMT 3 to have one demon with the abilities that prevent or let you flee encounters. For times when you just wanna book to the next part of the game. At the same moment, you can't use those skills all the time, or you'll get trapped in high-level areas with no ability to fight or progress. You'll have to Walk Of Shame back to the last teleporter. :lol:

For me, high encounter rate is just part of the charm of SMT. Although again, Devil Survivor Overclocked fixed this issue as well. It fixed so many issues without dumbing down the gameplay or story like persona did (imo.)


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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:03 pm 


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Sima Tuna wrote:
Blinge wrote:
gonna assume the PS4 version also sounds like Dogshit then?

Yes, but a little less so if you're running them on a CRT, I would hope. The main issue is how compressed they sound compared to recordings you can find on youtube for free.

I'd have to dig out my copy to answer that question about whether it's a CD or DVD.


???

PS4 on a CRT?

I assume you misread
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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:12 pm 


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It wouldn't feel like the apocalypse if you could chill out and enjoy the liminal spaces. It's something I do dislike about SMT4's implementation of field mobs; where you're not allowed to stand still and just enjoy the scenery. I had to google screenshots to make super-sure its trees were okay. (Don't worry everybody: they're alright.)

Those guys who'd play through SMT3 and Digital Devil Saga without ever running away..


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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:07 pm 



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Blinge wrote:
Sima Tuna wrote:
Blinge wrote:
gonna assume the PS4 version also sounds like Dogshit then?

Yes, but a little less so if you're running them on a CRT, I would hope. The main issue is how compressed they sound compared to recordings you can find on youtube for free.

I'd have to dig out my copy to answer that question about whether it's a CD or DVD.


???

PS4 on a CRT?

I assume you misread

Yeah, I thought you said ps2 version.

The ps4 version and switch version of the new port seem to be the same, based on what I've heard. If the ps4 version had better quality music and no slowdown then all of the smt speedrunners would be playing it. AFAIK they still run SMT3 on ps2 hardware because the port a shit.


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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 8:46 pm 


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BryanM wrote:
It wouldn't feel like the apocalypse if you could chill out and enjoy the liminal spaces. It's something I do dislike about SMT4's implementation of field mobs; where you're not allowed to stand still and just enjoy the scenery. I had to google screenshots to make super-sure its trees were okay. (Don't worry everybody: they're alright.)

Those guys who'd play through SMT3 and Digital Devil Saga without ever running away..


Oh yeah that's quite annoying isn't it.
I can't smell the roses cause a demon appears literally every second and rushed for my bumbum
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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:19 am 



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Just consider it an opportunity to listen to the awesome battle music again that much sooner.


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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:15 pm 


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Sima Tuna wrote:
Steven wrote:
III HD on Switch has some problems with slowdown in battle. I don't remember it having any slowdown on PS2 or PS4, so not sure what to think of this, but it doesn't break the game or anything. I still can't believe this game only has 8-way digital movement despite being originally released for a system that came with an analog controller.

Yeah, it has some slowdown and the music sounds like shit because of the way they lazily ported it over. The Switch version may also have some lag too. I remember speedrunners complaining about the switch port compared to ps2.

For a casual playthrough, most people will probably find the Switch version fine. I did notice the absolute dogshit music quality though. You can't give me an HD port of one of the greatest ps2 soundtracks of all time and not fix up the music, bro! That's a sin deserving of the torture rack!

TBH I feel that comic demi-fiend when his demons tell him he only uses Tornado. It's pretty ridiculous how early you get that spell and how busted strong it is.


May I present the rebalancing(?) joy of Hard Type.

https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/3299/

Quote:
Physical skills have been improved in the early and mid-game
Magic skills have been improved in the late-game (and magic damage no longer caps)
Pierce now also penetrates Resist/Null for magic skills
HP-based skills now use strength for damage, and their damage output ranges from 60%-100% of normal based on your current HP% (the power of these skills was raised a bit to compensate for this)
Agility and Luck now have much higher impact on the things they effect
Luck now affects the rate of ailments and instant death
Luck now affects critical hit chance
Luck is now the primary factor in magic accuracy (yes, Luck did almost nothing in the original game…)
Dark/Bright Might crit rate reduced to 50%
Might crit rate increased to 30%
Might skills, Drain Attack, and Attack All can now all stack with each other
Drain attack healing increased to 100% of damage dealt
Shock and Freeze can now work on bosses and only last through one physical attack
Tarukaja now affects both physical and magical attacks (Makakaja was repurposed)
***Tornado damage reduced from Heavy to Med***
MC’s unique Phys skills have been re-tooled and re-balanced (check ‘em out!)
Many new skills have been placed on Magatama
Stat bonuses on Magatama have been generally improved
Magma Axis now treats a target’s Drain Fire or Repel Fire as Void Fire (works with Pierce)
Resistances and skillsets of demons have been rebalanced
Elem Boost skills reduced to +30%



Though I don't feel it's THAT helpful in the early game due to how expensive it is on MP.
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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:28 pm 



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What's the earliest you can get mana drain in SMT 3? Sure, I don't spam Tornado in every fight, but if a boss isn't immune to wind then it's pretty fuckin' busted, mate.

That mod looks awesome btw. Removed cap on magic damage? Noice. Fixing luck is a big deal too.


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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:17 am 


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It's kind of weird that Digimon games are kind of honorary SMT games these days. Not as weird as Ariana Grande and Katy Perry being official Final Fantasy characters. But still a little weird.

Digimon x SMT: Survive Digimon Tuner, some day...


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 Post subject: Re: The Shin Megami Everything Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 9:34 am 


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BryanM wrote:
Digimon x SMT: Survive Digimon Tuner, some day...

Considering how the Fire Emblem crossover (which, for the record, I rather liked, myself) was received, I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. :P
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