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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:12 am 


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:27 am 


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Okay I finally did this:

Thymesia - Urd (Level 1) (No Damage)

This was the hardest fight in this challenge by a wide margin, and it was only after I grinded it out with these restrictions that it fully revealed itself to me. Honestly one of the most interesting boss fights in any action game I've ever played...feel like I could write a dissertation on it at this point.

This one boss fight is worth the purchase price of Thymesia alone.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:34 am 


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Blinge wrote:
Only Based Birru could conclude that HorsefuckValley is alright hahahah.


TBH, it reminded me of plotting out an arcade 1CC. :lol: Image Getting fucked up repeatedly while sussing out the route and determining my assets, then finally executing. :cool: Once I realised the Reindeers could be handily pancaked with Great Club's 2H/R2 (which I'd been heavily dining out on during my first run anyway), it got a lot simpler to weather the horny assaults.

Big danger is the rare double spawn, but in my experience, that mostly happens as you near the deathfall that leads into the boss. So I'd just camp in the nearby ruin (after killing the fuckers in there) until the blizzard stopped, before hauling ass down and across the bridge. Reindeers can chase you right up to the boss arena, but they don't seem to begin pursuit until you've made the crossing.

To be honest, the thing that bummed me (owch!) most was the relative pointlessness of it all. Felt a little lame just coming away with Soul of BIGCAT (BLACK VER) (x2). I'd assumed there was a particularly badass Loyce Knight waiting at the end of it all.

Loved the experience, and especially the grueling aesthetic, though. Running across ZOMBIs in the snow reminded me of Game of Thrones' early seasons, before it turned to utter shit. Liked taking down that Evelyn trooper and the Faraam Knight under time pressure, too, with a mid-fight Reindeer spawn liable to really fuck things up.

I coulda gone for a Surprise Zombi Onslaught off the beaten track tbh, like the end of S2. Image

WTF were those knights doing out there, lmao - gone Hollow, I suppose. Also, on another DEEP LORE tip, BIGCAT SOULS mention the Ivory King having "Seven Great Beasts." You can have max four Reindeers in play, IIRC, not that it's a great idea. I wonder if the three BIGCATs and four Reindeers are the lot? "Charged with granting exiles a painless death," lmao. I guess the Reindeer squad have the opposite task: ensuring that especially vile crims are... BUMMED 2 DEAF!!! :shock:

Summoning BOTH my FINE HONEYS Feeva & O'Harra Image plus MAH BOI Vengarl gives the Reindeers a bit more HP, but it also makes it easier to get the drop on 'em for a big whomp. I was utterly mercenary with summons in DS2 - I just didn't give a fuck, particularly with all the gangups in Loop 2. :lol: This is how I approach pretty much any ARPG's first run, though - total cutthroat, prestige can wait.

Also, I was genuinely ROVIN the aesthetic of Badass KILLAS On A Mission. Image Real oldschool ARPG stuff, with a Healer, a Sniper, and a Berserker backing up the all-rounder MC.

Fuck I'm annoyed, I saved all sorts of pics & clips of my bummer-dodging exploits, including my climactic takedown of BIGCAT (BLACK VER) #2. With BCBV#1 downed, the clever cunt went straight at me, pausing to launch his fiendishly delayed left/right CHOMBO! But, I'd gotten so good at dealing with BIGCAT (WHITE VER)'s identical moveset, I read the delay, and dive-rolled straight through the fucker (lessons from BB! dodge into the blade, not away from it!). And then, my HAWT (if preposterously under-dressed for winter battle!) compatriot O'Harra shot him riiight up he fookin arsehole m8! And that were that. :o

Must've deleted 'em to free up HDD space. Ah well, always next time. But yes! TLDR: loved Frigid Outskirts, 10/10 will do again. Image

Quote:
I'd be interested to hear what you think about, or if you felt a design throughline between the Soulsgames from 1 onwards.


Having played tons of BB, and DS1, before moving onto DS2, I was initially shocked at the latter's floatier handling. There's something I like to do with my 3D action games, while getting to grips: try executing successive attacks in cardinal directions, EG up, down, left, right. This was a constant of early Hard 3D Action classics like DMC, Shinobi, and Lament of Innocence (a massive asterisk for LOI being "classic" - but were its level design even half as good as its engine, it'd have been a diamond).

In BB and DS1, with a relatively light weapon, I can nail it every time (despite From's trademark Frenemy Camera System™ twisting the POV while trying to second-guess what I'm doing ;3).

BB, Saw Cleaver
Spoiler: show
Image


DS1, Chaos Blade
Spoiler: show
Image


DS2, Chaos Blade
Spoiler: show
Image


In DS2, even with the lightest arms, the turning speed during combos is weightier; I can't snap out those directions quite as reliably. I'll get up, down, down-left, up-right, etc. It seems like they'd tried to make you feel... heavier? Definitely not as DMC-sharp. Dante never moved like a human being, spinning on a pixel at full sprint. Actually, with no word of a lie, the game DS2's handling reminded me of the most was Silent Hill 4. That extended to the heavier attacks, too, I'm guessing due to both games using MoCap - though obviously, DS2's action is far, far more polished.

Still, similar sense of a fast-paced 3D action game attempting to impart a sense of human weight. Took me a good ten hours to adjust (and I still prefer DS1/BB's breezier model), but I eventually saw what they were going for. I think so, anyway! I just had to accept that this was someone else's take on Souls, end of story.

Quote:
so here's what I mean.. the "rival fight"/ high action sword battle with a small-mid armour dude.. existed as a kind of
Spoiler: show
final boss omg badass moment
in DeS..

Really comes into its own with Artorias..
.. I feel they then took the Artorias concept and really rammed it home, tried to develop it in DS2, to varied effect.
They then kinda fuckin' nailed it in the Ds2 DLCs, and I believe.. brought this design throughline into a LOT of the boss battles of DS3. To the point where the action (and what is asked of the player) has ramped up significantly compared to relying on RPG elements to get you through.


They developed the "badass duellist" aspect for sure in DSII, especially its DLCs. Fumey, Loney, Ivy - all rousing showdowns, on par with DS1 headliner Arty. I fought all those dudes sans summons, excellent Hard 3D Action. (well, I mean there's the one Loyce Bro who'll be around for Bernie, but the poor bastard is woefully outclassed)

Quote:
I'm just not sure how BB fits in.


BB's definitely light on middleweight challengers - it seems to delegate that role to its periodic Hostile Hunter duels/ambushes, which can (from blind perspective) strike at the worst times. More of a "Surprise bitch!" midboss role. CHOIR INTELLIGENCER EDGAR comes to mind, blocking your escape from a fuckin army of spiders in Mensis.

Even BB's relative tiddlers, like Starvin' Marvin and Beggar Abby (my favourite bros tbh - ferociously aggressive, yet so much easier on the camera) are nearly Manus-massive; Manny himself being a mini-Larry, or even mini-Ricky! BB's ultimate mansized foe, Cosmo, is a goddamned monster - not really a duel, with his deliberately GDLK range, power, and stagger resist (and speed+mobility+AOE nuke in phase 2, aka LASTBOSS_AROUSAL Image). No complaints, mind! Facing the howling-mad incarnation of a defiled god's wrath should be terrifying and demoralising.

Of course there's Crowy, who's deadlier than all but BB's most br00tal bosses, and certainly a fuck sight more intimidating than DS1's climactic duel. And I suppose The Hunter's Helper, and his star pupil... but the Quickstep, Rally, and Ranged Parry mechanics - plus the virtual absence of shields - change things so radically from Souls, it's difficult to feel much crossover (other than the innate spiritual connection of deadly, un-cancellable consequence on every move). They're quite different battlefields, encouraging and punishing of different things.

Speaking of BB, albeit in lore terms: I was reminded of how much DS1's DLC is basically BB in microcosm. Switch out "Oolacile" for "Yharnam," and "Abyss" for "Nightmare," and you've got a remarkably close fit. Even Oolacile itself heavily resembles the ruined URBEX aesthetic of Old Yharny.

Spoiler: show
And of course, there's Chester - who besides his Yharny aesthetic (I wonder if those are meant to be his Hunter Dogs down below?), has quite a bit of conspicuous lore to share, as do Hawkeye and Elizabeth.

"Oolacile [Yharnham] has brought The Abyss [The Nightmare] on itself. Digging up the grave of primeval man [Pthumerians?] - what could they have been thinking?"

"But you have to ask yourself... does it really matter, anyway? Ahahaha." (Gehrman: "Don't think too hard about all this...")

"What? You think this is my fault?!" (Countless Yharnamites: "IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!!!")

Hawkeye: "They awoke that thing, and drove it mad..." [Ebrietas comes to mind]

Elizabeth: "It may be The Abyss cannot be stopped..." (Eileen, gone mad: "The Beasts cannot be stopped!")

Also Artorias's werewolf motif (those incredible howls he rips out during the fight), and his ring mentioning "the beasts of the Abyss." And even the concept of Oolacites' "humanity running wild," turning them into feral monsters, isn't that unlike the notion of Beasthood/Old Blood - which seems to be the opposite end of the spectrum from Insight overdose and Frenzy, or perhaps transcendance of humanity altogether, as in BB's "Childhood's Beginning."

Man, I felt bad when I realised the reason Artie fights with a broken arm and no shield is because he took care of Sif, in his last moments of humanity. :sad: I actually fought him sans shield after that, for my last loop as Dr. Biruford aka Captain Homo. Got beaten down bad, was worth it for TEH FEELZ. :mrgreen:

After the superb forest areas, and staggeringly good Oolacile Township, with its climactic Big Boi duel and descent to the horribly creepy dungeons, I found the Chasm of the Abyss a bit disappointing; kind of a Diet Tomb Of The Giants. Coulda used a lot more of those uneasy, sniper-stalked walkways. But I like to think Artorias and Sif demolished the vast majority of its denizens, before finally tapping out. Had atmosphere, at least.


Wheee, headcanon! :cool: Loved the sense of shared authorship there, between DS1's AotA and BB, despite them being such different games (and stories) overall.

Quote:
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Wait - is the Xanthous Crown just Gwynnie's misplaced vibrator? :o Maybe Prissy-chan stole it! :shock:
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:57 am 


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Definitive boss tier list wherein I skipped most chalices bosses and most ER optional bosses. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:03 pm 


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Both for its own game and the collective whole, Bed of Chaos needs its own exclusive "HS" tier. For Horse Shit. :lol: Not exactly a hot take, I know, but as a Souls newcomer, it was absolutely the shitfest I'd heard of for the past decade.

Always had a soft spot for Mico, partially his incredible VA, partially because hobbling his pursuit phases with BroBlade is br0000tal, - but mostly because I immediately figured out how to deal with notorious instakiller A Call Beyond. :cool: While it's very dodgeable, both by QS/Roll and simply walking, it's a lot easier to Black Beast Fist him out of the casting animation before beating the shit out him. :mrgreen:

(to be fair, Black Beast RAWR dominates basically any man-sized BB opponent, to the point I unlearned it because it was making things just tooo damn EASEH! now deploying as part of a healthy balanced diet :cool:)

Royal Rat Vanguard at least has some atmospheric value, with the bloodcurdling BGM and the innate horror of being overrun by feral rats. I've probably more hate for Royal Rat Authority, given what a PITA the little zako dogs can be if I don't wipe them out before big boi arrives. Big lad ain't shit on his own (how refreshing to fight a four-legged behemoth that won't trample you, unlike Kalameet and Accursed Wiggy), but DS2's heavy handling makes interferers extra-onerous.

Bed Of Shit is just a trainwreck on every level. Paper-thin puzzleboss structure rife with trapdoor memo instakills, with a "climax" that boils down to a timing-based minigame centered on the game's Achilles heel, jumping. And as a final insult, it doesn't regenerate if you die, which I find infinitely more galling than if you were forced to do it in one take.

I've come to think of Living Failures as a really fun boss, tbh. Used to consider them From's official apology for the base story mode's rare damp squib, Celestial Emissary aka Super Value Sized Ayyylmao. But besides the phenomenal cosmo-horror aesthetic, it's got a nice balance of hectic 4v1 and precision, nailing V-ATKs under fire, and using the Giant Lumenwoods (or even dem big Papa Smurf cheeks) to evade the Cosmo Dresdens. (what a fuckin scene Image "Hail, hail to the stars!" yeah no thanks you, you... BUM-FACED CUNTS :shock:)

Dance! Everybody dance! Image MY ANUS IS BLEEDING :shock:
Spoiler: show
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:21 pm 


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BIL wrote:
Royal Rat Vanguard at least has some atmospheric value, with the bloodcurdling BGM and the innate horror of being overrun by feral rats. I've probably more hate for Royal Rat Authority


Completely agree, I like Vanguard for the same reasons. The thought of just being completely swarmed by giant rats is pretttty rad. Kinda like Gremlins, with the main dude even like stripe with his little mohawk.

Authority can piss off though. I hate that Sif-reskinned twat and his little goons.

I really like BoC's presentation, but news to nobody, yeah it sucks ass. If it was all just presentation, like notable pillars of fire and the room crumbling I wouldn't mind it so much. I'm fine with a boss being easy but fitting into the world, but the whole random swiping/ground pound my ass stuff makes me furious. Nearly punched a hole through the wall this last playthrough cause of that wanker.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:16 pm 


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drauch wrote:
Kinda like Gremlins, with the main dude even like stripe with his little mohawk.


Rat King got some seriously quality VA too, absolutely smouldering with righteous anger and vindictive majesty. :o "My servant... destroy mine enemies." :cool:

IIRC the actor has quite the resume, I think he was in British cult favourite Blake's Seven, though I didn't grow up there and missed all that.

Quote:
I really like BoC's presentation, but news to nobody, yeah it sucks ass. If it was all just presentation, like notable pillars of fire and the room crumbling I wouldn't mind it so much. I'm fine with a boss being easy but fitting into the world, but the whole random swiping/ground pound my ass stuff makes me furious. Nearly punched a hole through the wall this last playthrough cause of that wanker.


I don't normally armchair-design, outside of the most egregious lapses into kusoge - and this is one of them. :cool:

Spoiler: show
What I'd do, is turn that fun-but-pointless entry slip n' slide into a grand staircase downward, pocked with debris and deathfalls that constrain movement, along with (extremely visible) crumble-underfoot sections than can be sprinted or dive-rolled over. In addition, a threefold threat:

1) the stairs behind you crumbling into the void.

2) slow but deadly-accurate mortars from the Witch.

3) Firebreathers peppering the way downward, with a few Capras for pants-shitting factor (90/10 split). Staircase should be busy enough that getting brickwalled is a moderate-but-deadly possibility, without aggressively sprinting and diving through gaps.

Have the witch's mortars blow away enemies too, for tactical variety. Proper chaos innit! :o

As for the floor phase, change it to a wide "X"-shaped altar, with target cores at each corner. A regenerating squad of four Tauruses spawns from the flame in the center. The altar is solid footing, but its balustrades are crumbling, with lengths of walkway lethally exposed to the void. It's just about wide enough for two Tauruses to stand side-by-side.

Switch the Witch to her ground flares, the occasional targeted laser, and rare, very clearly audio-telegraphed sweeps, in left, right, and pincering variations; again, all friendly-fire enabled, for a sense of pandemonium and tactical variety. After a pincer, all Tauruses will be left floored with 50% damage sustained.

Objective is still to crush the cores, but the threat is getting dogpiled, brickwalled, or slapped down - not America's Funniest Home Videos'd into a pit, unless you get bitch-slapped in. Once the cores are gone, the main body keels over, bridging to the walkway, and you have a short window to haul ass onto the head, across the neck and down the back, whack the haplessly-revealed bug that's latched onto the spine like a tick. Job done.


I loved the other "non-duellist" boss, Darksun, particularly the emphasis on speed and quick adaptation; moving fast enough to catch him, but not so recklessly that you're lethally exposed. Thought it was a shame they shat the bed (dohoho!) so violently on his counterpart, even though against DS1's overall quality, it's a mere blip.
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Last edited by BIL on Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:28 pm 


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Vanguard's cool as a first-time "uhh what do" thing, also.

I just like it when From does any deviation from " big beast/Dragon to fight" or " big armoured dude with sword "
i genuinely appreciate their more experimental moments. The twitch chat cunts hate it ,i'm sure.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:42 pm 


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Same - while she's technically a duellist, I'd also mention Prissy along with Darksun. I left her alone all through my first NG, reluctantly whacking her in NG+ while searching for a third ending I didn't yet realise didn't exist. (I did get a rather nice Bleed-enhanced scythe out of the regretful slaying, and later a dagger that would've been cool, except the DLC's Tracers completely obsolete it)

Figured out her first phase blind, taking a few brushes with death. First nailed her with a throwing knife, which stuck. "Aha! So that's it!" I thought. Then the knife fell out. "FML" I said, and got the shit slapped out of me. Retreated to the walkway, reasoning that at least it might focus her attack onto my shield. Aaaand that's when I noticed
Spoiler: show
them furry little feets in the snow, and it was all over for darling Prissy-chan. 3;


Really cool encounter, reminded me of good ol' MGS's playfully enigma-laced duels. Not outright puzzle bosses, just a little mystery to suss out before you can compete on even footing. And no codec, obv.

"Snake, I made all the bosses gigantic nubile women with gorgeous tits and asses to distract players!"
"But Miyazakicon, I'm fuckin gay!"
"I know! ;3 "
"Guess I owe you one ;3 "
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:41 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Vanguard's cool as a first-time "uhh what do" thing, also.

I just like it when From does any deviation from " big beast/Dragon to fight" or " big armoured dude with sword "
i genuinely appreciate their more experimental moments. The twitch chat cunts hate it ,i'm sure.


So there is an interesting tension here of how is the fight the first time vs replayability. I think replayability matters which I guess should be pretty evident with my rankings.

I don't mind when From experiments but sometimes it backfires.

drauch wrote:
Authority can piss off though. I hate that Sif-reskinned twat and his little goons.


I almost didn't bother with DS2 bosses at all because of how many reskins there are. It's been a long while since I played it now so I did a quick refresher skimming youtube videos of all the fights before doing this.

Overall I feel pretty good about that bottom tier. Those are all complete crap. Of course there is a lot of room for debate if any of you want to take a swing: https://tiermaker.com/create/all-fromso ... ed-1042465

I think there is actually everything on there. I didn't include DeS cause it's been too long and Sekiro because I actually don't like including it with these other games, I think it's too different overall to include.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:42 pm 


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Sekiro's worst boss
Spoiler: show
Ape duo
would be in B tier. Everything else would be A or S tier. Not kidding. The Inner bosses are in S+. Inner
Spoiler: show
Owl
is fucking sick.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:44 pm 


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Stevens wrote:
Sekiro's worst boss
Spoiler: show
Ape duo
would be in B tier. Everything else would be A or S tier. Not kidding.


The Folding Screen Monkeys can eat shit but otherwise probably yeah. I think not really having the rpg elements probably helped this.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:47 pm 


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A fair point SB. Tbh I forgot about them which means you're right. To their credit though they are the best gimmick boss From has subjected us to.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:58 pm 


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I'd probably have them in D. I did really love the Sekiro boss fights in general. Even the ones that completely kicked my ass.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:57 am 


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Monkes probably suffer from the same first time/replay problem

Sadly steamfl0g i didn't look at your rankings because it contains Belden Rim info
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:56 am 


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Blinge wrote:
Monkes probably suffer from the same first time/replay problem

Sadly steamfl0g i didn't look at your rankings because it contains Belden Rim info


Are you not done yet Blinge? This will go on your report card smh.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:46 pm 


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On repeat plays they're not bad.
Spoiler: show
The bell helps a lot if you know where they spawn. Kill, bell, repeat.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:47 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Blinge wrote:
Monkes probably suffer from the same first time/replay problem

Sadly steamfl0g i didn't look at your rankings because it contains Belden Rim info


Are you not done yet Blinge? This will go on your report card smh.


Haven't started.... :3
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:48 am 


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Just played 15 minutes of Metal Wolf Chaos XD for the first time and I'm definitely ready to crown it a top 3 From game. The PC port is also uncharacteristically excellent.

I was gonna save it for later but I might not be able to resist digging into it tomorrow.

ETA: I think I've played all of them except for Kuon, Sekiro, Elden, that PS2 Yoshitsune game, that PS1 Spriggan game, and a couple of the later Armored Cores. Oh, and absolutely none of their DS games.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:31 pm 


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Air Master Burst wrote:
All Souls games are pretty easy without self-imposed restrictions, although DS2 is probably objectively the hardest just because they make you work a bit more to grind souls. I wish they'd try to make one that didn't just let you level past everything with impunity.


hahaha hooo boy, here we go.
hot takes 2022. ackshully souls games are ez 8)

and yet, every new From release causes social media and games journos to clamour for an ez mode. odd, that.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:44 pm 


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Not gonna take a part in that fight, but to be fair- journos were clamouring for an ez mode in fucking Metroid Dread. In that game you can just stand in place taking hits when you fight most of the bosses because any projectile you shoot down is gonna drop more health refills for you.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:43 am 


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Souls games require patience but the actual skill floor for execution is fairly low.

I didn't think Souls games being relatively easy would be considered a hot take in a fucking shmups forum of all places, but I don't mind being considered a bit spicy.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:37 am 


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Is requiring patience not a form of difficulty?
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:16 am 


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Volteccer_Jack wrote:
Is requiring patience not a form of difficulty?


This question just makes me think of that one Shenmue QTE in the barbershop where the trick is to NOT hit any buttons.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:25 am 


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It's not spicy but it's so reductive in my opinion that it comes off as a bit silly.

If we take all of gaming as a whole they still rank pretty high in terms of difficulty, pushing shmups into the stratosphere.
I'm fine with that.

Even the execution point is flawed. No matter how hard shmups are all i have to do is tap directions and like, two buttons and I can play. Soulz requires more complicated execution than that :wink:

Are you one of these people that overlevels yourself then complains the game didn't stop you? Just asking
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:40 am 


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Blinge wrote:
Are you one of these people that overlevels yourself then complains the game didn't stop you? Just asking


Not intentionally, but it's super annoying having to manage my own difficulty level because From was too lazy to balance anything themselves. I know they CAN do it, I've played a shitload of their games! Just give me a fucking Souls game without levels already! I have the same complaint about post-Rondo Castlevania, although those games tend to be actually finished and not nearly as janky.

I talk a lot of shit about DS3 being uninspired and dull, but I still enjoyed it enough to beat it a few times. It's just not a difficult genre for me. I never thought tank controls were hard either, but listen to a modern gamer try to play classic RE and you'd think they were as hard as Souls games. The only real difference is that Souls games let you power level past everything if you want to, so people complaining that they're "too hard" just don't have the patience for grinding.

I mean, I get it! I don't have patience for grinding much either, but I also don't conflate that with difficulty.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:52 pm 


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i literally don’t know what you’re talking about.
the endgame of ds3 is still a decent challenge if you just level up with the standard souls you pick up along the way. Like, you can’t sleepwalk through it. I’ve made this point so many times before; but it asks so much more of the player in terms of combat than the other games, except bb.

This is assuming base game.

i know each game has some busted good weapons that make everything trivial compared to not using said weapons ( BKH or any poise build in 1, Estoc in 2 etc). so i’m referring to the best approximation of the average experience that i can.

I guess you’re such a god gamer that you’ve skilled yourself out of the conversation :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:58 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
I guess you’re such a god gamer that you’ve skilled yourself out of the conversation :wink:


I guess so? I played a shitload of actually difficult 3D action games before Souls even existed, so it's certainly possible I'm lacking the proper perspective on this.

Blinge wrote:
the endgame of ds3 is still a decent challenge if you just level up with the standard souls you pick up along the way.


There are lots of self-imposed challenges you can do to make Souls games harder. The prevalence of them suggests that they aren't actually inherently very difficult games. Some of the lore puzzles can be pretty cryptic, but they're rarely necessary for just beating the game.

ETA: I was always a natural at N64 Zelda too, z-targeting just clicks for me.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:05 pm 


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No mate. To clarify: I mean just playing the game normally, killing enemies as you go, and using souls.

ie not deliberately grinding levels.
that's all I mean.

The fact that people do challenge runs is not evidence for a game being easy.
Probably the opposite, otherwise it wouldn't have any appeal.
but really, this is a dumb side point and it's the versatility of the game experience that makes people vary it up with challenge runs, not really anything to do with difficulty
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:29 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
No mate. To clarify: I mean just playing the game normally, killing enemies as you go, and using souls.


If you kill enemies on the way to replaying every boss then you'll usually outlevel them pretty quickly, especially early on. It's a good system since it keeps players from getting stuck on a single boss for too long, but it's also not difficult.

Weapons only have a few moves each, the i-frames on the dodge roll are incredibly generous, and there's no combo system to speak of; so the execution barrier is far lower than a character action or fighting game.

Most of the difficulty in Souls games is due to the classic inherent From jankiness; like bad camera angles on bosses, any of the shitty attempts at platforming, and whatever the fuck Bed of Chaos was supposed to be.


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