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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:30 am 


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Volteccer_Jack wrote:
What you do in the DLC on NG is run past everything to pick up the weapons :lol:


True, that does work. :mrgreen: That and snazzy new digs and truckloads of Coldblood/Wisdom.

Actually this time around, my first NG with the Hunter's Axe (planning to do a NG/NG+ with Threaded Cane after), I thought to myself "Wow! It's a pretty good Church Pick substitute!" only to hit Cathedral Ward and think "Wait. Just go get the Church Pick duh." I decided not to partially after hitting my usual "Yeah, this is nerf" threshold of BeastClaw Hunter aka Gilby's Ghost, who ate something absolutely absurd like ten V-ATKs, but mostly because I've put nearly as many hours on the Pick as I have the Saw and wanted to keep learning the Axe.

(for whatever reason, the Straight Pick's R1 chain gives the enemy Hunter AI utter hell; it's the only weapon I know of that reliably ties up Crowy; any other weapon I've tried hitting him that aggressively with, he'll just blow my head off with the Repeater)

But I think after my Cane runs, I'm gonna go for a semi-suicide run straight through Wiggy to the Pick. :cool:

Air Master Burst wrote:
Bloodborne is great but I refuse to play it again until it gets a PC port because that original framerate is fucking dire.


This latest revisit was actually prompted by my returning from an obscene length of time with DS1+DS2's PS4 versions, which keep a nice 60fps 99.9% of the time. Was wondering if I should pick up a PS5 for DS3 @ 60fps, thought I'd revisit BB. Felt absolutely hallucinogenic at first but was surprisingly easy to adjust to, I'm guessing due to some very well-judged hit confirms. TBH, it's the 20sec respawn times that bug me, though again, they're less bothersome than I remembered.

Decided to wait on that PS5 regardless (sweet Jesus, I thought I was done chasing "rare stuff"), since Sekiro gets a 60fps & quickload bump just like DS3. And there's Elden Ring, though tbh, my enthusiasm for that one's nowhere as high as for Sekiro or even DS3.

A 60fps quickloading BB would see me buy whatever platform it landed on, this is my favourite ARPG toybox next to SOTN. Image Improbably bullseye-perfect action-to-acreage balance, painterly aesthetic, and stacks upon stacks of weapons and gear to experiment with. And tbh, if not for M2, Hamster, and a few diehards like Natsume and Inti, my PS4 would pretty much be a BB adaptor as it is.
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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:48 am 


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I'd recommend Demon's Souls instead of DS3, it's a far better game. The Tendency system was really cool and I wish they'd revisit that mechanic.

DS3 is pretty soulless and uninspired and the broken poise makes it really annoying to play any sort of tank character. A couple of the bosses were ok.

Depending on what you're looking for, I'd actually recommend King's Field 4 if you haven't played it (preferably on an emulator where you can bump the game speed up and get a stable FPS), it's probably the best cohesive game world From has made yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:02 am 


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Every time I've gone back to Bloodborne the 30fps feels awful at first, but then I've adjusted by the time I get to Cleric Beast. But yeah a 60fps port would be an instant purchase, preferably PC so fans can more easily use/preserve the Chalice Dungeon features.

My main memory of using the Hunter Axe is spinning2win against basically every non-boss. But I'm definitely a SKL gamer, my favorite weapon is Blade of Mercy. (honorable mention to Burial Blade)

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DS3 is pretty soulless and uninspired and the broken poise makes it really annoying to play any sort of tank character. A couple of the bosses were ok.

I think at its absolute best DS3 is a poor man's Bloodborne.
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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:14 am 


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BIL wrote:
Improbably bullseye-perfect action-to-acreage balance, painterly aesthetic, and stacks upon stacks of weapons and gear to experiment with.


Dead Cells might be what you're looking for, it has the best weapon selection of any game I've ever seen. Handles fucking smooth, too. The only real downside is the procedurally generated levels don't have nearly the charm of a Castlevania map, but that's a minor complaint when everything else is so well done. I put over 250 hours into it and still haven't quite unlocked all the costumes, although I'm pretty sure I've tried all the weapons. The build variety is truly stunning, and it gives you a proper challenge on the higher difficulties.


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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:25 am 


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DS3 is pretty soulless and uninspired and the broken poise makes it really annoying to play any sort of tank character. A couple of the bosses were ok.


Imagine recommending a game like KF fucking 4 to Birru. :lol:

have you seen any of this thread?
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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:19 pm 


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BIL wrote:
Decided to wait on that PS5 regardless (sweet Jesus, I thought I was done chasing "rare stuff"), since Sekiro gets a 60fps & quickload bump just like DS3. And there's Elden Ring, though tbh, my enthusiasm for that one's nowhere as high as for Sekiro or even DS3.


I mean I know you're going to play it at some point, but imo Elden Ring is a pass. Sekiro shits all over it.
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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:21 pm 


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Air Master Burst wrote:
Bloodborne is great but I refuse to play it again until it gets a PC port because that original framerate is fucking dire.


Then you my friend are missing out.
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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:59 pm 


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Stevens wrote:
Air Master Burst wrote:
Bloodborne is great but I refuse to play it again until it gets a PC port because that original framerate is fucking dire.


Then you my friend are missing out.


I already played through it twice and got both endings, including a good portion of the chalice dungeons. I have zero enthusiasm for more until it gets a version with a proper framerate.


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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:57 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:48 pm 


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Your wise counsel is appreciated as always, Shumps Friends™ :cool:

Oof! Talkin out me arse re: BB respawn/new area load times. They're nearly all ten seconds, not twenty (five seconds per message). A couple of lamps take fifteen, or two and a half messages (Central Yharnam and Old Yharnam) - but then they load an absolute fuckton of gloriously-detailed real estate. Hoonter's Dream is five seconds, or one message.

Probably explains why I found them surprisingly tolerable. :lol: Still, the thought of halving 'em is most enticing.

Air Master Burst wrote:
BIL wrote:
Improbably bullseye-perfect action-to-acreage balance, painterly aesthetic, and stacks upon stacks of weapons and gear to experiment with.


Dead Cells might be what you're looking for, it has the best weapon selection of any game I've ever seen. Handles fucking smooth, too. The only real downside is the procedurally generated levels don't have nearly the charm of a Castlevania map, but that's a minor complaint when everything else is so well done.


I've had this recommended to me by other estimable peeps, too - one of my infernally long-off rainy day picks for sure.

Blinge wrote:
Imagine recommending a game like KF fucking 4 to Birru. :lol:


Remember though, I'm a man of many Hard Gayming perversions! Image I'll go to war for Legacy of the Wizard's silly Bubble Bobble Lite action (and fathomless FC death dungeon Image), just like I will NG1 when some potato-handed noob complains about "backward jumps" and "cheap bats." Image

You can't help what makes you Hard Gayme, that's what I always say! Image

Stevens wrote:
I mean I know you're going to play it at some point, but imo Elden Ring is a pass. Sekiro shits all over it.


Haaa, I know Image I suspect BB is my sweet spot for "open world gaming." Obviously, it's not a true open world, geographically (nor would I want one! SPOOKY MISTY TOWNZ 4 LIFE) - but in terms of possibilities for high-finesse, high-stakes carnage, as well as the sheer persistence of its combat (wherever you go, someone's looking to throw down!), it's my GTA.

(I used to spend hours chilling out with my brothers watching them play San Andreas, some of my fondest gaming memories actually. Played maybe 15 minutes one day while I was bored. Stepped out of CJ's house, accidentally shot a woman in the face while looking for the "talk to" button (I swear! :shock:), stole an ice cream truck and lost the cops - then turned off the PS2, and that was the end of my GTA story.

Still enjoy watching bros play the new stuff when we get together. :lol:)

So "OPEN WORLD SOULZ" doesn't really grab me at all, while Sekiro's more disciplined action game grabs me like a MUHFUCKA. I love Miyazaki's overall sensibilities, so I'm looking forward to one last DS with him at the helm, but Sekiro's by far my biggest draw.

---

I can always tell I've hit saturation point with a game when it pops up in my dreams. Had an ill dream last night that if you never tell me nan of a safe location, then return to her house during Blood Moon, it'll be so misty you can't see shit, and all the formerly-caged dogs will be surrounding the place frothing at the mouth and ignoring you. I guiltily whacked 'em all, then heard a voice mockingly asking if I was there to help, before BOOM! Some godawful thing exploded out of the house and killed me. I dunno if it was me nan, or the person she mistakes you for once she loses her marbles. I was actually pretty scurred though! :shock: :cool:

I've always wished Central held just a couple more creepy sights during Blood Moon, though what occurs outside Gaz's house is plenty. I actually said "What the fuck?" out loud the first time, when that perfectly-timed aside from the person inside popped up in the subtitles. And then coming back and, yeah, double WTF.

OTOH, the dead silence from that formerly raucous whorehouse, and the house full of wailing men, classic Weird Fiction mood. I recalled on this latest NG that the old lady in the Forbidden Woods is one of those rare NPCs who'll still respond during Blood Moon, albeit with inhuman howling. The only one I know who talks is mah boi LAST SURVIVOR down in Lower Cathedral, who's having a blast all night.

Annoyingly, the dissenting resident of the brothel ("Heavens! The depths of depravity...") seems to attempt Blood Moon dialogue, but cuts off after a split-second of the telltale subtitle bar. I wonder if that was a cut line. I notice, browsing BB's deleted lines, there's a very consistent pattern of them saying just a couple lines too much. G-Man's parting line, for example. "The night, and the dream... were long..." Sounds like a formidably leal servant, exhausted beyond belief (as we can hear in his rare garden sleep-talks, pleading to Lawrence and the pointedly-titled "Master" Willem), guiltily succumbing to the rest he's denied himself for aeons. "I'm sorry. God help you."

The deleted lines have him continue, heartily thanking the player for the respite, and imo ruining the character and the moment alike. Some very sharp editing, from what I gather extending to the JP script as well; I wonder how the process went, EN then JP, or JP-directed all along?

Man I love this game. I want a "BB2," but not called "BB2," naw mean. No direct continuance, and sure as shit no "answers," just another unforgettably oneiric snapshot of a place devoured by its lurking dark side. Even at its most ostensibly mundane, I don't know if "Yharnam" as we see it is anything but a nightmare kept in unknowable stasis by unknowable powers, and I prefer it that way.

"It is a fearful thing, to fall into the hands of the living God!”
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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:33 pm 


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Great post mayn

I want BB2 set in ailing loran. Islamborne, huge city falling apart with classic arabic architecture zomg
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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:36 pm 


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BIL wrote:
G-Man's parting line, for example. "The night, and the dream... were long..." Sounds like a formidably leal servant, exhausted beyond belief (as we can hear in his rare garden sleep-talks, pleading to Lawrence and the pointedly-titled "Master" Willem), guiltily succumbing to the rest he's denied himself for aeons. "I'm sorry. God help you."

The deleted lines have him continue, heartily thanking the player for the respite, and imo ruining the character and the moment alike. Some very sharp editing, from what I gather extending to the JP script as well; I wonder how the process went, EN then JP, or JP-directed all along?

Oh boy time to interpret Bloodborne's vague non-plot! I always got the impression that his condition was involuntary, and that the only lines of dialogue which were him speaking for himself were the sleep-talking and his dying words. In any case, his last words are pretty perfect and it's hard to imagine adding to them without detracting.
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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:05 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
I want BB2 set in ailing loran. Islamborne, huge city falling apart with classic arabic architecture zomg


Yeah, precisely that degree of separation. Image Incidentally, just got Bag Boi'd and actually watched the intro cutscene - first thing you see, a BIG MOUTHFUL of the dreaded Sands Wot Ate Loran! Or sand, at any rate! Place is full of it, and of course, some very well-dessicated corpses.

I've a favourite pet theory that Yarghul doesn't look like a desert fortress for lack of upkeep; rather, in BBworld, sand (and dryness, and dessication - see Mico and his dead homies) is some polar opposite for The Sea, The Sky, all that nice life-giving water vapour.

Volteccer_Jack wrote:
I always got the impression that his condition was involuntary, and that the only lines of dialogue which were him speaking for himself were the sleep-talking and his dying words. In any case, his last words are pretty perfect and it's hard to imagine adding to them without detracting.


His anguished presence in the dream I believe was involuntary, though he's only given to voicing that in his sleep, otherwise comporting himself as a steadfast if very elderly helper. His succumbing to death/disconnection at your hands, too, I'd guess is ultimately beyond his control, given the only one said to be at liberty to "refuse" (per his plaintive victory dialogue, and Djura and Eileen's much pithier ones) is you, seemingly the latest dream-walking hitman under Moon Prez's patronage.

Even so, the retail dialogue makes him sound horribly regretful at the prospect, and what it means for "his keen hunter." It's a lovely bit of detail (in a narrative innately sparing on such), obliterated by the suggestion he could ever happily give up his wheels, no matter his longing to - at least without his absent comrade or their master's sanction.

This invites the question (wheee! Weird Fiction done right :cool:) - does Gehrman know you're trucking along to take down El Presidente, on the TLB route? He doesn't regard a player ready to "evolve with courage" any differently from a shoddy Hoonter who's doomed to receive NIGHTMARE BEEJ and permanent office as Moon VP. I wonder if they missed a trick, or if it's meant to imply Gehrman is haplessly unaware of there, in fact, being a way to usurp the prez.

Like maybe you're a particularly insightful Hoonter, and the authors of those handy notes in the Research Hall have been waiting for someone to actually read the fuckers. :o

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Because it's my tendency to horde ARPG consumables like gold, I've been very slow to realise just how frickin destructive Pungent Blood Cocktails are. :shock: "A valuable tool" indeed, description bro! Holy fuck, any beast-infested area (like several in Ol' Yharny), just break out the bolly and it's all over for the crowd. A cinch to wipe out furry friends five-to-ten per each well-placed charge shot.

Last time around it was Blue Elixir I woke up to, utterly lethal to crowds that'll otherwise see you approaching and dogpile you. Get inside and explode 'em from within.

I'm sorry, Tragically Afflicted Peeps! Yall really are that motherfuckin dangerous! MERCY NOT AN OPTION ;_;7
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No coincidence that you get lots in Research Hall. At first, I thought it was some pussy-ass stealth option, which sounds both boring and horrendously dangerous. You're not invisible - it merely shrinks your "alertbox" down, letting you get far closer to enemies. It's infinitely better-used as a trojan horse for aggressive crowd demolition.

This makes visiting Upper Cathedral Ward ASAP a much more compelling prospect, since the Cosmos badge you can find tucked away in the main hall (on the corpse near the Brainsucker in the rightmost corridor, when descending the grand staircase) will unlock Blue Elixirs for sale from the Insight Bath Bois.

I notice, even in NG+, I'm missing a Blood Bath Boi :o There's one more I always get a laugh out of, he's leaning wayyy back and clapping his hands in rapture. Looks like he's getting a quality Underwater Beej! Image

I wonder what makes him appear. Big Questions! My favourite ~Magical Vacation Gayming~ alongside SOTN. :cool:

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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:07 am 


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BIL wrote:
otherwise comporting himself as a steadfast if very elderly helper.

My pet theory/assertion here is in two parts, first that this 'helper' does not have the hunter's best interests in mind, and second that this persona is likely the presence puppeteering his body. Granted, this mainly based on a number of dialogue oddities, which can be read various ways. For example, the awkward pause when he tells you his name, which can be readily dismissed as memory troubles or some such, but to me reads disturbingly like the speaker is saying it for the first time ever. As for his dying words, they're certainly regretful but the precise target of that regret is up for interpretation.

BIL wrote:
This invites the question (wheee! Weird Fiction done right :cool:) - does Gehrman know you're trucking along to take down El Presidente, on the TLB route? He doesn't regard a player ready to "evolve with courage" any differently from a shoddy Hoonter who's doomed to receive NIGHTMARE BEEJ and permanent office as Moon VP. I wonder if they missed a trick, or if it's meant to imply Gehrman is haplessly unaware of there, in fact, being a way to usurp the prez.

Like maybe you're a particularly insightful Hoonter, and the authors of those handy notes in the Research Hall have been waiting for someone to actually read the fuckers. :o

I'd file it under the latter, as even the presence itself is taken by surprise. If they don't even have a name for the thing then it's probably not well understood.

And while I'm over-analyzing lore details, I find it very fascinating that the presence, which appears to desire destruction of beasts, itself moves and fights like a beast.

BIL wrote:
Because it's my tendency to horde ARPG consumables like gold, I've been very slow to realise just how frickin destructive Pungent Blood Cocktails are. :shock: "A valuable tool" indeed, description bro! Holy fuck, any beast-infested area (like several in Ol' Yharny), just break out the bolly and it's all over for the crowd. A cinch to wipe out furry friends five-to-ten per each well-placed charge shot.

The wildest thing about Pungent Blood Cocktails is that they even work on bosses!
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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:17 am 


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I think it is memory troubles; because i doubt "all signed and sealed" is funneling his first hunter to Gerry.

Also, other hunters have been in the hunters dream
Eileen - No more dreams for me
Djura - I should think you still have dreams? Well, next time you "dream.."

So they most likely would've met Gehrman.
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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:29 am 


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Been fond of the theory lately that the almost-mutated Ayyylmao in the very back of the clinic is our coughy bro. :o Kinda ignominious after a portentous start, but also explains where TF he went, assuming that wasn't Gehrman going deep cover. Image

"Whatever happens, you may think it all a mere... bad dream..." "Motherfucker are you coughing or laughing, I can't feel my legs" "Imma FromSoft NPC bitch the fuck you think?!"

Volteccer_Jack wrote:
BIL wrote:
otherwise comporting himself as a steadfast if very elderly helper.

My pet theory/assertion here is in two parts, first that this 'helper' does not have the hunter's best interests in mind, and second that this persona is likely the presence puppeteering his body. Granted, this mainly based on a number of dialogue oddities, which can be read various ways. For example, the awkward pause when he tells you his name, which can be readily dismissed as memory troubles or some such, but to me reads disturbingly like the speaker is saying it for the first time ever.


Interesting... that would put a nice spin on the "Friend to you hunters" line, given what appears to be a murky alliance between MP and humanity, and the paucity of direct communication with it.

Quote:
And while I'm over-analyzing lore details, I find it very fascinating that the presence, which appears to desire destruction of beasts, itself moves and fights like a beast.


Indeed, there's a nice engima there; exactly the sort I like BB for leaving unresolved. MP is conspicuously bestial, and its sign - the blood moon - is synonymous with the plague. Yet, it's implied to rule the Hunter's Dream (Abandoned Old Workshop cord description; the Doll praying to it as a deity), home to exterminators of beasts. Furthermore, on arrival, we're ordered to "Halt the source of the spreading scourge of beasts," with supporting messages scattered through the Waking World, gradually pointing to Mensis's ritual as the source, and Mergo as some catalyst; targets for destruction and "silencing," respectively.

Seems like a straightforward job! All of BB's woes spring from mortals meddling in the occult, from Pthumeria to Loran to Yharnam. But another of these atrocities, Mensis's facilitation of inter-species rape, enables a sufficiently driven hunter to transcend humanity entirely - to MP's apparent horror. I could believe this self-preservation was the true purpose of the hunt; the seemingly self-sabotaging MP ironically ending up doing exactly that, in its intent to sever ties between humanity and Great Ones.

Or perhaps it was simply prideful, regarding "beasts" as intolerable bastardy; or maybe even altruistic, "sympathetic" to human plights, as its Carryl Rune's description says. Maybe we killed the poor thing for no good reason at all, other than whatever motive you ascribe your Hunter. Perhaps even its apparent worst ("Get in the chair bitch!") was a tragic misunderstanding. ("Wow, he really wants the old guy's chair! And Gramps has been awful whiny lately...")

We can't know. Sure is a lot of conspicuous detail, though. That's all part of the fun with good cosmic horror, along with stylish Weird and a strong human anchor. They did really well with BB, I think - in addition to the whole face-shredding 9000mph NeoVictorian ninja bloodbath, too!

Quote:
The wildest thing about Pungent Blood Cocktails is that they even work on bosses!


Ahh yes - I remember hearing they work on Starvin' Marvin, as you'd expect with him being one hungry motherfucker (though that seemed wasteful to my miserly ears - just strafe right to provoke his Marvin Punch, then *BLAMMO* blast him in the kisser), and I recall catching Beast-Possessed Souls with 'em, in the Chalices. But I was relieved to discover poor Ammy-chan isn't deceived by The Bottle. :cool: Pupper had a hard life. :sad:

Fetch, Lassie! (^w´ )OH FUCKING CHRIST (◎w◎;)
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Oh wow! :o It's my errant Bloodbath Homie! Fired up my OG file to check - I was beginning to worry I'd hallucinated him. That wouldn't be good for me ol' brainmeats! Image

Buns "Jeff" (NG+) - THEY CENSORED HE BEEJ?! (◎w◎;)
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Dr. Biruford (NG++++++++++) Oh ok cool (^w´ )
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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:49 am 


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Air Master Burst wrote:
Stevens wrote:
Air Master Burst wrote:
Bloodborne is great but I refuse to play it again until it gets a PC port because that original framerate is fucking dire.


Then you my friend are missing out.


I already played through it twice and got both endings, including a good portion of the chalice dungeons. I have zero enthusiasm for more until it gets a version with a proper framerate.


I hear you. Come to think of it I wouldn't mind faster load times either.
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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:46 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
I think it is memory troubles; because i doubt "all signed and sealed" is funneling his first hunter to Gerry.

Also, other hunters have been in the hunters dream
Eileen - No more dreams for me
Djura - I should think you still have dreams? Well, next time you "dream.."

So they most likely would've met Gehrman.

Both of those characters hunt other hunters which doesn't suggest that they are on friendly terms with Gehrman, if they are even aware of him. Speaking of memory troubles, there's exactly one single way shown for the player character to escape the Hunter's Dream, and it's explicitly stated that this way will cause them to forget the dream. Our friend Micolash has a similar belief about his own dreaming state. So it stands to reason that these two should have forgotten as well, raising a number of questions. At the very least the fact that they remember such dreams means that Eileen and Djura's situations are different in a significant way from that of the player character.

Djura is a whole can of worms. If you believe his words then none of the "beasts" the player kills are beasts at all, and the player character is the real "beast". A sentiment echoed by the enemies in the game, who refer to the player character as a "foul beast". You can go down this road quite a ways interpreting the entire game as the player character being the singular beast, manipulated by the moon presence into slaughtering countless innocents. Gehrman's early line of "don't think too hard, just go kill beasts" can be read as him maliciously goading you toward senseless murder, for example. Point being that if you trust Djura to tell the truth, then that only gives you more reason to distrust Gehrman.

As for contract boi, we know nearly nothing about him or his motives. Even supposing that he knows about the Hunter's Dream and Gehrman (he gives no indication of such), one can't assume he intended for the player character to end up there; he could just as easily have intended for the strange 'blood-beast' to claim them instead of the messengers.

BIL wrote:
Ahh yes - I remember hearing they work on Starvin' Marvin, as you'd expect with him being one hungry motherfucker (though that seemed wasteful to my miserly ears - just strafe right to provoke his Marvin Punch, then *BLAMMO* blast him in the kisser), and I recall catching Beast-Possessed Souls with 'em, in the Chalices. But I was relieved to discover poor Ammy-chan isn't deceived by The Bottle. :cool: Pupper had a hard life. :sad:

The church-associated beasts seem to ignore/resist it, which is maybe Deep Lore or maybe just coincidence. Come to think of it I've never tried it on Gascoigne.
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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:43 am 


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Volteccer_Jack wrote:
Djura is a whole can of worms. If you believe his words then none of the "beasts" the player kills are beasts at all, and the player character is the real "beast". A sentiment echoed by the enemies in the game, who refer to the player character as a "foul beast". You can go down this road quite a ways interpreting the entire game as the player character being the singular beast, manipulated by the moon presence into slaughtering countless innocents. Gehrman's early line of "don't think too hard, just go kill beasts" can be read as him maliciously goading you toward senseless murder, for example.


Oh shit, that's rad. :o Shades of Silent Hill 3's "Monsters? They look like... 'monsters,' to you?"

I take Djura - "Uncommonly kind, and dreadfully foolish" - at his word, but I think he understands the things he and his comrades protect aren't literally the same as normal people. Just tragically deformed, deranged people. During his intro warning (an outstanding bit of realtime exposition, washed down with a fiery MG salvo), he calls Old Yharnam "burned and abandoned by men, home now only to beasts." I think his faction are merely remorseful, like Maria and Gehrman regarding the fishing hamlet.

An aside: a lot of fans question why Ol' Yharny is still burning, and if it's some kind of temporal anomaly... I think the answer is totally mundane. The place is full of burning, crucified beasts, true. It's even more full of bound-and-hanged corpses; not a mode of dispatch associated with beast slaying. There are also many spots rigged with oil urns, very easy to get blown up by Djura if you tarry near them. Per Gehrman - who regards beast killing as an unfortunate necessity, at worst - it's "the perfect place for a Hunter;" god knows I love the wild carnage on offer. I think it's simply a popular hunting spot, and regular scene of bilateral mayhem.

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(I started feeling awful attacking the occasional Beasts that are dozing in the alleys and bushes, at some point, so I avoid 'em now 3; I always blow up the church though, what with the congregation going straight for your eyes on sight. also, god help me, I spent way too much time perfecting my 1337 Church Skip last night :lol:)

RE random huntsmen, there's a vexing detail straight from the staff, that their lupine faces are merely "the Yharnam look." I reconcile this via the town being known for voracious blood abuse ("In Yharnam, they produce more blood than alcohol"), and with the Blood Moon "blurring the line between beast and man," primed for the symptoms we see afflict Gaz (paranoid hyperaggression, bestial mutation), and to a lesser extent the crazed Henryk and Eileen. Not to mention the Cleric Beast, Amelia, and the OGCB That Bitch Larry, all no doubt mainlining the REALLY good shit, the Church never truly fearing the blood as Willem beseeched them to.

Both the lycanthropic Tall Huntsmen and the full-blown Scourge Beasts happily cooperate with the merely crazed huntsmen, making me think they're all in the same mad basket - "the Yharnam look" a mark of chronic low-grade blood abuse. I bet the various horrible vignettes heard through locked doors in Central go under this umbrella, too. "Poor you! Poor, poor you!" Faaack, bone-chilling. The sound of a doomed populace gone to feral depravity.

I like that the true party animals, the Blood Drunk Hunters ("MORE BLOOD!" "BLOOOD! NOOOOOOW!") have a few of these little scrubs tagging along, doing bitch-ass things like tossing firecrackers, giving away your position, and putting the odd boot in... Yharnam used to cater to a much better class of madman. Image

With much fancier threads and doggos, too! Chezzer would approve. Image

Incidentally, I don't think I saved the clip, but if you go the BFF Djura route, then have a Beast Patient follow you up the ladder to his sniper nest, he'll happily chatter away with you while you haplessly dodge the feral fiend's lunges. If the beast yeets itself off the tower, as even Djura himself is wont to, though? That means war sonny! Image

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I was actually startled, the first time I unknowingly broke Djura's covenant. Made peace early on, came back after an ungodly length of time gem-hunting in the Chalices, and decided to throw down at my favourite spot. (narrow exit + tons of beasts = guaranteed kill-crazy carnage :cool:)

MAH LEEEEEEG OwO

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Blasted a fucker square in the chops only for a booming voice and subtitles that I thought was the fucking beasts themselves talking :shock: Before remembering Djura can see everything from his perch. :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:16 pm 


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Volteccer_Jack wrote:
and it's explicitly stated that this way will cause them to forget the dream.


Yeah, explicitly stated by Gehrman.

And we can trust everything he says to us, can't we?

Am I to understand, Jack.. that you are suggesting the player character is the only Hunter to ever inhabit the hunter's dream?
The first to ever be drawn in and do Gehrman's bidding.. ?
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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:27 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Am I to understand, Jack.. that you are suggesting the player character is the only Hunter to ever inhabit the hunter's dream?
The first to ever be drawn in and do Gehrman's bidding.. ?

No why would you think that? In fact I'm suggesting that the player character is NOT doing Gehrman's bidding. And I think it's fairly obvious that Djura isn't either, given that he carries the weapon and badge of a heretic.

Quote:
And we can trust everything he says to us, can't we?

My entire point was that they make contradictory claims and therefore believing one necessarily gives you reason to distrust the other. TBQH you shouldn't trust any claim made in the game. Even the item description narrator is questionable at times.
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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:15 pm 


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Okay, correct me if i'm wrong but your pet theory is that Gehrman is a puppet controlled by the Moon Presence, even down to his speech. That him saying his name is Gehrman is because MP is making this name up on the spot.

But doesn't this imply that any other hunter who has inhabited the dream would've never spoken to him, nor known who he is?
Including any of the countless hunters that came before, Djura, and Eileen.

stuff i'm less interested in:
as for doing his bidding, you basically are for the entire time until you defeat him, or when you're not doing hunting the cords.
my own theory (i think) is that the notes passed to you by the messengers are from Gehrman himself.
They all point you towards stopping the Mensis nightmare and killing Mergo.
He then tells you your job is done when you return to the dream..
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 Post subject: Re: Bloodborne LTTP: Yharnam Fukkatsu ~ Dream HOONT Never En
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:31 pm 


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Jesus Christ. :shock: :lol: Was gonna wait until I had a big ol' effortpost ready to go when I saw this. I don't really follow the whole demake scene, but that's a larf and a harf right there m8.

What Gehrman sees when he blazes that Moon Scented Grass Image
Spoiler: show
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---

Spoiler: every single grave in the yard is yours. They just started chucking your expertly de-bonced corpse into the void, rather than pay the admin fee to reclassify the property as a cemetary. Source: my uncle who works at Sony :wink:

I've wondered about those notes' authorship, too. I think it's significant that Gehrman and MP seem equally happy with you following them to the letter. Whether it's truly Gehrman speaking at the great tree or not, he congratulates you for a job well done, then gifts you what he considers a priceless mercy. (his literally weeping for the same, talking out of turn in his sleep, makes me think we're hearing from the man himself here)

"Good Hunter, gg lmao" *BLAOW*

It makes the "Sunrise" ending seem disarmingly happy, the worst thing being the innate dissonance of submitting to defeat. No awful strings attached, back home you go, maybe even with whatever ailment brought you to Yharnam cured. It's like one of Chambers or HPL's occasional non-downers (The Mask or The Dunwich Horror). As there, Things That Should Not Be remain, but satisfied to go on their incomprehensible way, at least for now.

This ofc being very charitable to MP's designs on humanity, if any. I don't think BB's Great Ones are actually threats, per se, any more than you're a threat to the ant colony in that vacant lot on the other side of town. Just about every awful thing here, even Arianna's fate (if we accept the hints of her having Cainhurst ancestry) trace back to mortal folly.

Apropos cosmic horror, human folly seems the spark of chaos here. I like the notion of a horror game where the "fail" ending is relatively benign, while dominance invites something with infinitely darker potential. What happens when our species, already this troublesome, attains this stature in the cosmos? Maybe an improvement on our godforsaken condition and the dawn of unprecedented peace and plenty, perhaps. A die of cosmic portent is cast, either way.

Nah just peachy. WHERE THE FUCK MAH LEEEG Image
Spoiler: show
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Hey my dick works >83
Spoiler: show
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tbh this kinda nice lmao >¦3
Spoiler: show
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Was all this for real or was I just dreaming my dick worked 3;>
Spoiler: show
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Man FUCC (■`w´■)

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You know those six imprisoned Yharnamites in Yaharghul mk1 - I had the SUPER BIG BRAIN theory that they matched the number of Beasts in mk2/red moon. "Naw there's five" said Brain "WHY YOU LYIN" said Ass. There's five. :[

...that random statue cluster levitating over Ol' Yharny, that's the sixth one, that's what I'm sayin' >_> :mrgreen:

I still like the implication of any scourge carriers in Yarghul - where the red moon is FOOKIN MASSIVE M8 - just fucking exploding into beastly horrors under its influence. Meanwhile, the remains of the sacrificed spontaneously erupt in feral undeath; the Snatchers getting a fatal surprise at the claws and fangs of both. Imagine the state of Ol' Yharny at the time of that forlorn note, telling of things "ruling the streets" under a red moon - sounds not unlike the platoon of grotesques occupying the main thoroughfare to Advent Plaza.
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