What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

[sunnshiner]

I'm getting massively frustrated by the end bosses on SOR4 at the minute (to the point I CBA trying again, meh.) Also Wonderboy in FB Neo is still ace.

[Sumez]

Been digging into the Resident Evil games recently. I think this series might be the final major frontier for me in terms of video games I've been missing out on, but all the same it's been an interesting journey into a massively popular franchise which has had the power to dominate pop culture, inspire memes and injokes, and influence video games in general, but which, to me, mostly represented something I just didn't really get up until this point.

I've played very short bits of of several games in the series just to try them out, ever since the first game. I've made serious attempts at both RE4 and 5 without ever making it far, and RE7 I almost played till the end. But the classic games I just didn't get - what's the point of a "horror game" if it's not scary?

Yes, you don't need to tell me. I finally managed to claw my way into the RE1 Remake (remastered on PS4, and still looking incredibly beautiful), making it past the janky elements of the game's design, and ultimately learning to understand how the game somehow actually benefits from said jank, resulting in something that absolutely is more than the sum of its parts.

My plan was to just play RE1 and RE4 this year, but my fascination with REmake caused me to also pick up both versions of RE2, as well as RE3 and CV(X) to delve into at a later date.
I hope to at some point fill out a personal ranking similar to what To Far Away Times did last year, but I can already now tell that my list is going to look rather different, although we agree on a lot of the games' qualities.

I don't know exactly how much REmake improves on the original RE1, but compared to the newer iteration of the game, OG RE2 does feel like a less good implementation of the same general idea. But having played the better version first, I think it helped me appreciate the style of game regardless, and the game still manages to be a lot of fun despite arming you well enough to easily mow down everything on your path, and still have massive ballistics left over for a final boss which never requires it anyway

Fast forward to RE2make, and holy crap, I'm surpised just how much it still feels like classic RE, which I hadn't expected at all. I do miss the limited saving ability from the ink ribbons, and ponder whether I should have just started out on "Hardcore" right off the bat. Otherwise, the game seems to fix most of the issues I had with the original game, and at the same time feels like probably the best representation of zombie horror I have ever seen in a video game, and likely ever will. I'm sill early in the game, but I have a feeling I'm giong to love this one.

As for RE4 I actually don't have too much to say about it, honestly. It's a fun game, but slightly repetitive and dragged out, and the inventory system is too half-assed to function, becoming annoying instead.

[third_strike]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r4xjGMtMRc
Just a Zero Team USA no miss with I did last year.
Last Stage last forever

[BareKnuckleRoo]

As for RE4 I actually don't have too much to say about it, honestly. It's a fun game, but slightly repetitive and dragged out, and the inventory system is too half-assed to function, becoming annoying instead.

You're in the minority I'm afraid. A lot of people at the time and still nowadays are fond of the tactical choices it provides you, especially when you decide whether or not to take a stock for some of the weapons that can work with one or save the space for extra grenades and herbs.

Have you played Capcom's precursor to RE, Sweet Home for the NES? It's a great game and an early true horror game. The whole "locked in a mansion" theme was done in this game long before RE was, and it's pretty interesting to play.

[drauch]

I think Sweet Home is very interesting, both in the early horror setting and the party mechanics, but I always found the combat a huge slog. The random encounter rate is dialed up too high. I think it'd be a much stronger game otherwise, which is why I never stick with it. I think it would have benefited from a sparse encounter rate to create tension of not knowing when the next encounter was, much like Alone in the Dark and of course RE down the road. Or better yet and more similar, like Corpse Party where you try and avoid enemies that spell instant death.

[Sturmvogel Prime]

Revisiting Forza Motorsport 7. Doing a 200 lap at Homestead with an F1 car is quite good for a credits boost.

[Sumez]

You're in the minority I'm afraid. A lot of people at the time and still nowadays are fond of the tactical choices it provides you, especially when you decide whether or not to take a stock for some of the weapons that can work with one or save the space for extra grenades and herbs.

The thing is, though, there is no tactical choice when you still have more than enough space to lug around a massive arsenal and enough healing to stock a hospital.
The system is half-assed because you still get the constant annoyance of having to prioritize one item for one or more others every single damn time you need to pick up something, but at the same time you never get to face any actual gameplay implications from that decision.
And even if the decisions did matter, they would have to be entirely based on knowledge of what's coming up due to the completely linear structure of the game, otherwise you are just making a wild guess about what you need the most - nothing tactical about that

The limited inventory works brilliantly in classic RE titles, because it's so limited you're constantly having to make sacrifices and have a strict idea of what you need to go and do. And the interconnected map layouts, combined with "infinite" storage chest working as a checkpoint, allows you to make informed decisions.
In RE4 however, it feels like a relic that doesn't serve any purpose at that point, much like having lives in Super Mario Galaxy.

A better system for RE4 could have been, for example, a more restrictive hard limit on ammunition and guns, forcing the player to frequently switch up rather than just stockpiling, and a much more limited healing system - maybe something akin to Estus flasks, or simply only ever heal the player between rooms or dedicated checkpoints, and actually face the consequences of taking a hit.
I'm not actually gonna come around in 2022 and try to "fix" RE4, a game that a lot of people already love, but it's hard for me to see things like inventory limitations as anything other than annoyance when they don't actually serve any gameplay purpose.

Have you played Capcom's precursor to RE, Sweet Home for the NES? It's a great game and an early true horror game. The whole "locked in a mansion" theme was done in this game long before RE was, and it's pretty interesting to play.

I have the game lying around, but it being entirely in Japanese is a bit of an obstacle.
I've been wanting to try it out some time though, and I do have an Everdrive for dev purposes, so there's of course a way.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

A better system for RE4 could have been, for example, a more restrictive hard limit on ammunition and guns, forcing the player to frequently switch up rather than just stockpiling, and a much more limited healing system - maybe something akin to Estus flasks, or simply only ever heal the player between rooms or dedicated checkpoints, and actually face the consequences of taking a hit.

RE4's not meant to be as hardcore in terms of inventory management as the classic RE games though. They ditched the "key items take up space" thing that forced a lot of needless back and forth to juggle key items. Silent Hill had no inventory considerations at all by comparison and it's still considered a very good game, so limited inventory isn't necessary for horror to work. RE4 just exists as a soft in-between of both worlds. The carrying capacity is quite large unless you do a "no briefcase upgrades" kind of run, but RE4 is designed to be more engaging for players of all skills. The dynamic difficulty is a large element of that, but there's also the large selection of weapons to consider. If it's too easy you can impose limitations such as no shopkeeper, handguns only, no upgrades... whatever you prefer to have fun with it and spice things up.

RE4's Professional difficulty (unlocked by clearing the game) is a significant step up and is arguably as hard or harder than any of the PS1 era games were. Give that a whirl without any restrictions and you might appreciate the inventory capacity more. Only REmake's special modes are tougher I'd say?

[Sumez]

I don't understand the Silent Hill comparison. Those games build on a very different foundation than the RE games (which, famously are never "scary" per se), and RE4 makes no attempts to pretend being a horror game

RE4 just exists as a soft in-between of both worlds.

In other words, like I said, it's half-assed.

[drauch]

Play it in VR, then you can heal on the go and grab weapons at will without opening the inventory.

It's more difficult in some regards, but once you get used to it you can become a monster, walking and shooting at the same time, shotgun in one hand, TMP in the other. It's great.

[Volteccer_Jack]

RE1-3 and RE4 have extremely different inventory systems that serve two very different purposes. RE1-3 are not really about inventory management for the most part and you are rarely forced to sacrifice anything; you can freely and easily carry everything in your magical infinite bag of holding and you just select a small targeted loadout for specific tasks. Really kind of an 'expedition' system similar to stuff like older MonHun games, where the difficulty lies in finding the precise balance where you have enough equipment to succeed but enough carrying capacity to cart all the loot back to home base.

In contrast, RE4's inventory screen contains all your worldly possessions. In older REs you select your inventory for the next 10 minutes, in RE4 you select your inventory for life. You sacrifice constantly because anything that you choose to discard is gone forever. In older REs if you have no ammo for a gun you just put it in storage, in RE4 if you have no ammo for a gun you have to seriously consider whether the longterm value of the gun will be worth clogging your inventory with a useless item for an indefinite amount of time. RE4's inventory also has greater granularity, giving you much more control over the distribution of your resources. The amount of storage space you allocate to each ammo or grenade type is an important decision that has dramatic effects on how you handle encounters. Plus people just like to organize things.

As for "RE isn't scary", the appeal of RE1-3 sure as hell isn't the elegant controls, beautiful visuals, or deep combat lol. I'll just keep it simple with a nice hot take: Dead Space 1 contains more "horror" than any of the Silent Hill games.

[BIL]

Plus people just like to organize things.

Word They could not have made the Grenades more satisfyingly sock-like

I revisited RE4 last summer on a whim. Having last played it before rediscovering my love of arcade-bred action, I was pleasantly surprised at the Operation Wolf Button. Plays more or less like oldschool tank control RE, until you hit [aim] - then instantly switches to a simple but pleasingly finessed and violent carnival shooter. I like the total freedom to set up your carny stall wherever, and for however long, escaping would-be punishment with crowd-crushing blasts of CQC off deft kneecappings.

Sometimes it's like hauling ass around state doing a bunch of small gigs, others like a big headlining show at the National Carnival Barkers Association While "get your back to a sturdy wall" is more or less all you need to know, the total carte blanche supports considerably more derring-do. Pursuers being deceptively quick while off-camera, then slowing to an encroaching projectile-flinging trudge while in-sight is a neat balancing trick. Or in the Straight Outta The Thing wolves' case, doggedly (bwaaa!) keeping up with a running player, but not attacking until you're in a position to shoot them.

Not a game I take all that seriously (quite the contrary, it's a consummate every-few-summers blockbuster), but it's good at what it does. Also that Savini-calibre oldschool ultraviolence gives me a mahfuckin chub.

Other than the obvious trump card of THE MERCENARIES, a masterpiece of arcade-geared Time Attack, I think Assignment Ada is the game's best asset. I recorded a bangin' no-damage clear, but my PS4 HDD was low on space and it got mongled. Will have to do again. That bit in the Iron Maiden lab near the end, where you can lure the entire security force into that equipment-packed nook (so much glass ), then shoot the gas canister and kill like ten guys in one shot Never gets old.

[it290]

Bravoman, Cadash, Veigues: Tactical Gladiator, Keith Courage in Alpha Zones, The Ninja Warriors - a solid "meh" to all of these. Cadash has its good points but overstays its welcome (and lol @ the typical Worked Designs silliness like name-dropping Carl Sagan to see who's awake). Bravoman and Keith Courage are more in the arena of "generic thing where we are running and jumping at the enemy, we are gaming." Veigues firmly in "what is even going on" territory with a turning mechanic much more awkward than the original arcade release of Atomic Runner, and also I seem to be invincible through the first stage. The Ninja Warriors - what's playable in the arcade version sadly seems difficult and unrewarding here. The HUcard version doesn't even have the benefit of the excellent redbook audio.

Cadash is great. I'd go for the arcade version rather than the PCE port, but this game had no competition as far as arcade action RPGs at the time, and is still rather unmatched in that genre. The overall gameplay is not too dissimilar to Rastan, but the RPG mechanics, class system, and multiplayer put it over the top. It's actually quite playable on a single credit if you know what you're doing, too. The length of the game is admittedly a bit long but there's really nothing else like it.

[Sumez]

RE1-3 and RE4 have extremely different inventory systems

4sure

that serve two very different purposes.

I struggle to find the "purpose" the RE4 one serves, for reasons I have already spelled out

RE1-3 are not really about inventory management for the most part

in RE4 if you have no ammo for a gun you have to seriously consider whether the longterm value of the gun will be worth clogging your inventory with a useless item for an indefinite amount of time

In RE4 if you have no ammo for a gun, it'll probably drop real soon. Your ammo amount fluctuates quite a bit, but you'll never struggle for it. Guns don't really become "useless" unless you purchase a better/prefered version of the same type, and every time the game suggests you add a new type of gun to your inventory, it also sells you a storage space upgrade to make up for it.
But even if the game did ask you to make decisions based on upcoming locations in the game that you aren't familiar with, that would have been pretty terrible

The amount of storage space you allocate to each ammo or grenade type is an important decision that has dramatic effects on how you handle encounters.

Except it doesn't. If it did, the system would make sense, but when you still have enough space to carry around a massive artillery of every type, there's never really any major priorities to be made.

Plus people just like to organize things.

I kinda dig the Diablo-style moving around stuff to fit it together, but when everything can be rotated freely, and every item, aside from a few things you're gonna keep for a long while anyway, takes up the same two tiles, there's not much to mess around with anyway :\

I did however enjoy putting everything upside down in my suitcase.

I was pleasantly surprised at the Operation Wolf Button. Plays more or less like oldschool tank control RE, until you hit [aim] - then instantly switches to a simple but pleasingly finessed and violent carnival shooter. I like the total freedom to set up your carny stall wherever, and for however long, escaping would-be punishment with crowd-crushing blasts of CQC off deft kneecappings.

Yeah, definitely the most enjoyable aspect of the game for me, as well. The comparison to "carnival shooters" is actually weirdly fitting, especially in how rare actual enemy projectiles are, as well as the ability to shoot most of them out of the air. The game is definitely something unique, and I'd have loved to see this subgenre explored further (like I said, I'd imagine this was RE5's job, but popular consensus seems to consider it a step back)

[drauch]

IIRC, and I hope I'm not making this up, RE4 will drop more ammo the worse you are. A few years ago I watched a friend play it (who is terrible at games) on PS2, and he probably missed 6/10 shots on average. That part with the bridges/canyon when you first have a great spot to use the scope on the rifle and quite a few dudes spawn, I swear he used more bullets than the average person would have the entire duration up to that point, just in that area.

*Looked it up, and yeah, there is a dynamic drop system, which it appears some speedrunners will utilize by blindly firing to lower accuracy, therefore to get more item drops.

[BIL]

Yep! RE4 has a Rank system affecting ammo drops and, IIRC, enemy aggression. They'll do the "BWAAAA" lunge/sprint at you more often when Rank is up.

Professional Mode basically locks it at 100%; it'll absolutely never reduce, no matter how often you die, or how low your hit rate. So technically, you can hit Pro Rank even at Normal.

I only recall this since, on my PS4 playthrough last summer, I of course had to unlock Pro by clearing Normal. Jumped into Pro, and was left wondering WTF the difference even was. It turned out that, since I enjoy RE4 most without mid-chapter saves, treating each as its own little self-contained "1CC," none of my deaths were ever recorded. FALSIFICARE

There might be some things that are Pro-only, but I can't recall 'em offhand.

On the subject of RE4, I was happy to see that, at least on PS4, you can largely obviate QTEs. Just mongle all four action buttons simultaneously; the game will only read the relevant inputs. Turns the final Krauser duel from an embarrassing Simon Says match to the stab or be shot clash it would've been minus QTEs! Daft things. You want me to avoid knife, do that in-game tyvm. Don't give me a flickering prompt like I'm ordering takeout on a shitty internet connection, you boring cunts! :O

Krauser is so cool, as far as that beloved archetype of formidably jacked army dudes with a disturbing love of knives go.

"Come out and fight like a man, Leon!" >83
"I'm not falling for that." ¦3
"Juuust messin' with ya..." >:3

I heard RE5 actually punishes mongling, one of countless reasons I can't quite bring myself to try it out. The other is the hideously po-faced tone, also seen in RE6... RE4 is such a joy with its straddling of Roger Moore 007-esque hijinks and grindhouse horror. That's Mikami's absence, I guess. Can't fake that stuff. Sounds petty i'm sure - their shooting looks aight - but I must have MUH TONE.

[drauch]

Yeah, I got RE5 at launch, beat it, and haven't touched it since. It's not terrible like 6, but it's sorely lacking in what made RE4 great, especially with the whole shared inventory/partner system they force you with. Plus a majority is in the sunlight, so on top of the missing stranded-and-alone feeling, you lose the atmosphere as well. And it could have worked! Sometimes I go back and watch those original trailers and think what could have been. Goddamn.

If you ever get the chance to check out the VR, it's well worth it, especially since the Oculus GO now is much more affordable, at least to console standards, and doesn't require a computer for it. I'm unfortunately very susceptible to motion sickness, so I can only play it in spurts, but a highly skilled player can probably do some bonkers stuff. As mentioned, dual-wielding is crazy, but you can also work some things to your advantage as well. Like those castle shield dudes, you can actually run by them, and if close enough, raise your TMP or shotgun above their shields and unload in their face. It's a glorious feeling. Already an amazing action game, it really elevates it in parts, especially with the quickdraw of weapons and grenades from your chest at-will. I was skeptical at first, but it's truly glorious to be immersed in the action to that degree. VR still has a long way to go, but it's slowly getting there.

[BIL]

Man, that sounds amazing just for the realtime grenades. :O My only complaint with RE4's setup. Switching guns is actually kinda zen... blowing a hard target's head off with the Butterfly, then shotgunning his buddies' shields away, then finally hosing them down with the TMP, like you're a time-manipulating and obscenely well-armed choreographer. Having to switch to grenades is just a bit too peripheral, though. I always wish you could swap from Quick Knife to Quick Grenades, ala SoulsBorne. Ultimately not that big a deal, but it's the kind of thing I'd happily rebuy a favourite game for.

Yeah, can just imagine the havoc pro hardcases must be able to wreak on that setup, haha. Even vanilla RE4 has madmen like this guy destroying most of that early canyon horde with a ladder, Shaolin style.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Don't give me a flickering prompt like I'm ordering takeout on a shitty internet connection, you boring cunts! :O

RE4 is a rather cruel implementation of QTEs, back when they were a relatively new thing and before there was widespread recognition that QTEs with random inputs are bad. RE4 has many story based QTEs where the input appears to be chosen at random from two possibilities, so you can't simply remember the buttons to press and the timing, you have to see the input and then respond accordingly, making it purely a matter of reflexes.

For all the hate Bayonetta gets at times for its QTEs, all of the inputs can be memorized and there's literally only two that punish pushing the button too early, and both of these are near the beginning of the game (end of Ch2, the crumbling tower in the middle of Ch3). The rest you can just hammer the button in anticipation before the QTE prompt appears and get back to the good stuff.

My only major complaint with RE4 is the lack of sidestepping, mostly because if you could sidestep (by say holding down the knife button when your gun is raised) the Punisher wouldn't be entirely irrelevant. Its piercing is rather useless when you can't quickly shift your position rapidly to line up shots like you can in EDF where you can punch through as many ants as you line up at a time with the Stringer, which is a glorious sight.

[m.sniffles.esq]

I know I'm in a major minority, but I fucking hated RE4. It was game for the dum-dums that didn't get RE games and wrote reviews like "at one point I have to get past six zombies, but the game only gives me three bullets!!! Such terrible design!!!"

So you get a game where the drown you in ammo. It's "scary" because you walk into an area that seems empty, then 25 ghouls spring up. Then you stand there and dispose of them like a shooting gallery. Repeat this about 300 times...

[Sengoku Strider]

I can understand thinking the design changes of RE4 betrayed the core concept, but I think it was given a universal pass because it just nailed the mechanics. It nailed them so hard they completely redefined gaming and became default elements of how to do 3rd person action right in a 3D space.

It was RE5 everyone saved their 'It's too dumbed down!' venom for.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I can understand thinking the design changes of RE4 betrayed the core concept

And even that is a bit of a stretch when you realize that RE3 introduced a number of radical changes to make it more action oriented, as well as pioneered the Mercenaries Mode. It's the game that introduced quickturning. You can dodge attacks, and you can pre-emptively shove zombies away right before a bite, and RE3 generally has a lot of ammo as well as a very powerful knife compared to RE1 and 2. RE3 also generally gives you a ton of ammo; it was a closer precursor to RE4 than many realize.

Spoiler

It's the easiest game in the series to beat knife-only by far as the knife is effective for zombies and there's only one boss in the game you need to attack directly with it to beat.

For pre-emptive zombie shoving, with your weapon lowered, press and hold aim (R1/R2) right before a zombie bites you. If the zombie grab "hits" during the weapon up animation it'll become a shove instead. You actually get a much wider window of success for the shove to work if you're turned to the side or facing backwards to a zombie, but you take way more damage from bites from behind so there's a risk involved if you mess up the timing.

[m.sniffles.esq]

And even that is a bit of a stretch when you realize that RE3 introduced a number of radical changes to make it more action oriented

Even though a lot of that got rolled back a bit with CV (which was much closer to two than three)

[BIL]

Don't give me a flickering prompt like I'm ordering takeout on a shitty internet connection, you boring cunts! :O

RE4 is a rather cruel implementation of QTEs, back when they were a relatively new thing and before there was widespread recognition that QTEs with random inputs are bad. RE4 has many story based QTEs where the input appears to be chosen at random from two possibilities, so you can't simply remember the buttons to press and the timing, you have to see the input and then respond accordingly, making it purely a matter of reflexes.

This is exactly why I always hated them - that, and the utter disconnect between the inputs and my avatar's controls. Generally speaking, I consider volatility one of the best qualities a PvE game can have, but not when it takes the form of an obnoxious minigame shoehorned into the wider work.

"Press X + Square to not die?" More like GOOD FIGHTING IS REQUIRED (■｀w´■)

So I was pleasantly surprised by the Mongle Grip. I wonder if it's a PS4-only feature and/or bug (it has a few of the latter, most notably the 60fps animation's unfortunately making the base Handgun hyper-twitchy). In any case, whenever a cutscene is playing, just grip [X] and [R2] while pedalling their counterparts, [Square] and [L2]. Any and all QTE prompts will be blown away instantly, faster than you might even notice which buttons are being requested. Even works in the Laser Corridor setpiece, and the Verdugo + Krauser duels.

Legit improves the latter, imo, removing a needless layer of clunk. Oh wow this sure is an enjoyable life-or-death clash with a terrifyingly strong enem *record screech* You want me to Simon Says my badass super spy's dodge input? Yeah no - eat my ass, you QTE chumps! Me and DOUGAL-KUN gonna go MAD 4 THA NEW RAVE SOUND



DOUGAL MOTHERFUCKER IMMA KILL YOU

Spoiler

Dougal, If JFK had danced like that he'd still be alive today

This just leaves the button-masher QTEs, which aren't too bad. Still dumb OFC but at least less jarring.

[Sumez]

My only major complaint with RE4 is the lack of sidestepping

Let's disagree some more here , because while I think the inventory system is super bad (because it is, it's just factual, sorry ;P), I think the lack of sidestepping is exactly what sets the game apart and make the gameplay feel really unique, and not just like any other FPS-style "TPS". Shooting and running are two separate actions, and you need to balance them well. Someone can very easily sneak up behind you while you are shooting the other direction if you aren't careful, and switching up between shooting and running modes actually feels quite satisfying with the quickturn especially.

I can understand thinking the design changes of RE4 betrayed the core concept, but I think it was given a universal pass because it just nailed the mechanics. It nailed them so hard they completely redefined gaming and became default elements of how to do 3rd person action right in a 3D space.

I can't think of any single other game that feels like RE4, what "default elements" are you thinking of? The two places in the game where you get a button to hide behind a chest high barrier you can pop out from?

[Rastan78]

I think it's Gears that took the influence of RE4's over the shoulder view, combines it with a cover system, and sort of codified a style of TPS that would become super popular from there on out. IMO you don't get Gears in the form it came out in without RE4 coming out first.

Cliffy B (yeah remember that fuckin guy?) said the big influences were RE4 for the over the shoulder view, and Namco's Kill Switch for the cover system.

@Sumez, if you can't already see the influence on Gears from RE4 then I'm not sure a pedantic dissection of the game mechanics is gonna do any good.

As far as default elements, you can't ignore the over the shoulder POV, including the ability to switch shoulders left or right. Earlier games often used that Socom style POV where the player character is centered under the reticle. The problem is you cannot zoom in close enough without the player character obscuring the target. Maybe there's an earlier example of a game that used over the shoulder POV and did it so well, but I can't think of any, at least that were popular enough to influence later games.

BTW What I think is really cool is how Mikami answered back to Gears with Vanquish.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I think the lack of sidestepping is exactly what sets the game apart

Yes, but not necessarily for the right reasons. It's certainly not what the game is known and praised for; offering the option to make fine tune adjustments in position without having to lower your weapon are all I'm asking for.

In RE4 currently, the process to take a step to the side is lower your weapon, turn, run, turn again, then raise your weapon. The clunky movement is part of the horror charm but does not necessarily equate to good gameplay and later third person games RE4 directly influenced in terms of how the camera perspective handles like Dead Space remain perfectly scary while improving aim controls in a quality of life sense.

Make it a really slow walk speed, I'm not asking for sprinting when your weapon's up or anything, Silent Hill figured out how to balance this ages ago. It's not a big deal and the controls work, it's just that the Punisher in particular is mostly worthless due to the lack of sidestepping, since for it to be remotely competitive with the other handguns it has to be punching through as many targets as possible with each shot.

@Sumez, if you can't already see the influence on Gears from RE4 then I'm not sure a pedantic dissection of the game mechanics is gonna do any good.

Yeah... there were a lot of third person games prior to RE4 but there was no established norm. You had stuff like Tomb Raider and Syphon Filter where the character model was in the middle of the screen and thus where their model could block the view in front of you. After RE4's wild success, the distinct "over the shoulder with the character off to the left" perspective became a kind of cultural standard for third person games pretty much overnight.

[Rastan78]

BTW Kill Switch has to be one of the most influential games that nobody played.

https://youtu.be/TyIXe1PM6gk

You can see all the cover based DNA of Gears, Uncharted, Mass Effect etc etc right there in this first real effort at the style. Pretty innovative game for its time.

The guy who did the animation of the main character is called Vince Joly. He went on to be an animator on Metroid Prime series and was director for DKC Tropical Freeze.

[Ed Oscuro]

Dino Crisis brought a 180-degree turn and semi-free movement while aiming to the PlayStation about two months before any RE3 release. I have yet to play RE3. Shocking!

RE4 if you have no ammo for a gun you have to seriously consider whether the longterm value of the gun will be worth clogging your inventory with a useless item for an indefinite amount of time

This isn't something RE4 invented; RE has always deliberately had a balance between boss weapons and normal weapons. The only things radically different about RE4 are the grenades (cool utility option) and that there's a merchant for you to offload the extra stuff.

To complaints about RE4's "shooting gallery" mechanics: I see you, forgetting the original RE formula is about careening down hallways and then pulling up a shotgun to lock-on and blast a monster in the face at point-blank range. RE4 was designed around the GameCube controller which really only had one analog stick usable for 3d positional control. As a result, RE4 is a TPS translation of the classic RE formula; being able to aim at enemies properly is a bonus. It also seems unsporting to dismiss some of the more active fights against Ganados or Novistadores as "shooting gallery" fights when they're constantly flanking you or dropping off walls - the swamp as well as the sewers have lots of fights that keep you going back and forth trying to get good positioning. Compared against a proper two-stick control scheme RE4 does seem a bit stodgy because it still has to implement tank controls - but as a bridge between the turret swivel shooting of classic RE and modern control schemes it's decent.

Honestly, I always felt kind of sneaky when I could score the rare distant headshot against Ganados lying in wait behind a window. Conventional two-stick games err on the side of making you run all around the arena all the time and don't present these 'quiet moments' as often.

I think RE4's QTEs also add some much-needed variety to the game. Even the least of these, the introductory wolf trap and boulder run, simply wouldn't have had the same literal 'impact' so I think these can be forgiven even if you see them as nothing more than filler. Soon the game gets a lot cleverer about adding in QTEs to keep you from getting too comfortable with the controls. You can't even complain too much about the infamous Krauser cutscene fight because you get to fight him 'for real' in the ruins. Even there, RE4 is quite sneaky in keeping you on your toes with QTEs to dodge his plaga arm wing. IMO, it's just as well because the QTE enhancements to melee (like the backflip and dodge moves) help minimize the awkwardness of the tank controls on the main joystick. That final fight against Krauser would just devolve into spamming the knife without these enhancements.

Clearly, something like a left-right sidestep or dodge move wouldn't have worked without QTEs because the GameCube only has two (and a half) shoulder buttons, as opposed to the PS2's four fully functional ones.

BTW Kill Switch has to be one of the most influential games that nobody played.

One of these days I've got to do a comparison alongside MDK, Winback, Armed & Dangerous, Breakdown, Urban Chaos (the Rocksteady one) and of course Brute Force

[BIL]

IMO, it's just as well because the QTE enhancements to melee (like the backflip and dodge moves) help minimize the awkwardness of the tank controls on the main joystick. That final fight against Krauser would just devolve into spamming the knife without these enhancements.

Behold! (edit: admittedly not knife spam though! I lovingly optimise each beefy stroke for MAXIMUM CONTACT - gotta cash in on that per-frame damage! Christ, this got disturbingly erotic fast! )

I recently put 500hrs and seven loops on Dark Souls 1 over the last couple months, you could say I like it a whole lot - but that dragon zombie in the valley, the fuckers went and put a shelf right next to him for EZ arrow spam! Booo! I say FUCK THAT I got a nice dodge imma use it, also, DS1 is some Hungry Hungry Hippos next to the sodomy engine of eye-watering BPH that is Bloodborne - is like vacation! Who could use the shelf on this poor deceased varmint who doesn't even have his dick anymore? A cunt, that's who!

Anyway that's how I feel about RE4 at large. Why do this - ZZZZZZ LMAO - when you can do... fuck! The PS4 ate that capture too! Imma have to substitute with this, again! I had a cracking run where I murdered the fuck out of the Final Defensive Line... FACE TA FACE Even the Big Laughing Chaingun Cunt who drops down. He wasn't so chipper after I shot him in the dick with my obscenely buffed Butterfly!

This is making me want to play RE4 again, but (cf BB and DS1) I tend to lose significant chunks of remaining lifetime on these games what I like. 3;

TBH when a game's just as - if not more - entertaining when cheesed as when manfully faced down like a great big sperg, it's all good imo. RE4 wrecking ball foundy room? WTF do people mean "zomg teh crowd!" Here: shove Ashley in a corner by the door. Flashbang the cunts and kick the big chaps into the molten steel. Owch! Repeat as needed. You can kick so many of the poor chumps in, the place will be fucking haunted! Cracking fun, and super productive too!

Also I'm reminded of the RE Wiki claiming that the Big Mad Max giant dudes' parasites "never leave their bodies," which is BS. Blew one's head clean awff, Mr. Roach came out to play. I tried updating, but WOMP WOMP - this happened again! (a tangentially related tale of woe, for the perusal of any and all 3;)