Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Stevens]

What is Dreadnaught? Is that the bitch with the flamethrower? If you can clear Psychonaught then you will be able to get the 1cc of Hoodlum Dolls easily. The theater is the hardest level because of the fire spawns mixed with molotov throwers. Troy Lawman is very easy so long as you clear his reinforcement phases before his next attack phase starts.

The hatchet Anna throws has a ton of utility that isn't obvious. Very few weapons hit above you. The grenade launchers do and so does the axe. There are certain enemies that like to hover just above your level, and then they align themselves with you (or at an angle to you) while firing. If you have a hatchet or grenade launcher, you can pop them before they do anything at all. The hatchet hits enemies behind cover and, by running before throwing it, you can actually snipe across the visible map, killing enemies even before they appear. Popping an LMG guy who was hiding behind cover before he can do anything? Sweet. The hatchet is also THE ideal subweapon for jetpack guys, skateboarders and any enemy that's on a platform above you. The only area where the hatchet suffers is crowd control, but most of the subweapon pickups in Huntdown are built to destroy crowds (grenade, remote bomb, shuriken, chain grenade) so that doesn't matter. The hatchet is also amazing at dealing damage from angles where bosses can't retaliate. Murdoch, Teddy and TNT Randy all like to stand across from you and spam shit. With the hatchet, you can stand under them, short hop and chuck with impunity.

I played around with the boomerang and I still don't like it. Yes, at a specific range, it does shred mobs. The problem is how catching it requires me to limit my movement. When I play Huntdown, I like to stay very mobile. I don't want my movements to be constrained. Maybe I simply lack the skill to avoid enemy fire while grabbing the boomerang, but I really didn't enjoy the playstyle it forced me into. I also tend to be always holding up or down, so the boomerang trajectory gets fucked unless I specifically remember to go back to neutral before throwing. It doesn't gel with how I play.

All that said, however, Sawyer is still a top 2 character, no question. His revolver is ridiculous. I don't know what the consensus is on this game's tiers or advanced play because I haven't been able to find many people clearing Arcade mode, and there's almost no information online about 1ccing the game. Hell, there's so little info I could probably post a video about it at this point.

Yeah Psychonaught. Got the Hoodlum Dolls 1CC on my second try, admittedly being familiar with the game helped a fair bit. Also switching my buttons around so dash is on my left trigger.

The varying playstyles the characters have is a sign of a well made game. I'm glad some people on here have given the game a fair shake. Prior to the Steam release I felt it was being overlooked. Games like Elevator Action Returns are in short supply.

Not sure how much you have seen so I will post possible spoilers in tags.

Secret weapon/Easter Egg on HD stage 3:

Spoiler

Snake Plissken will land on the roof of the building you enter right after the stage start and drop you his signature weapon

.

Lots to love bout this game.

[BIL]

Ohshi - it's on PS4 now? Apologies if it's been addressed previously, but is it a good port? I've been curious about this one ever since your Steam reviews.

[Stevens]

Oh noes BIL, my original reviews were the PS 4 version: ) The Steam release was in May a full year after the PS 4 release.

That said I'm not sure if they updated the PS 4 version with arcade mode. It is a cool mode, but I wouldn't let that stop you from playing it.

I 1 CC'd the Misconducts on my first try with Sawyer. Again not my first rodeo, no way I would have done it blind.

Died once on Murdoch (OH THE HORRORS) and three times on UG. Totally forgot about

Spoiler

his roid rage phase

and took a few deaths to remember how to dodge again. Also Teddy Taxman's opening is really funny - "I don't hear no gunshots".

Skipped the Heatseekers and promptly got my ass handed to me by my favorite bosses in the game: )

[BIL]

X_X Damn, I've been out of it! Cheers bud, no doubts at all now.

[Sima Tuna]

Oh noes BIL, my original reviews were the PS 4 version: ) The Steam release was in May a full year after the PS 4 release.

That said I'm not sure if they updated the PS 4 version with arcade mode. It is a cool mode, but I wouldn't let that stop you from playing it.

I 1 CC'd the Misconducts on my first try with Sawyer. Again not my first rodeo, no way I would have done it blind.

Died once on Murdoch (OH THE HORRORS) and three times on UG. Totally forgot about

Spoiler

his roid rage phase

and took a few deaths to remember how to dodge again. Also Teddy Taxman's opening is really funny - "I don't hear no gunshots".

Skipped the Heatseekers and promptly got my ass handed to me by my favorite bosses in the game: )

Ha, I figured skilled veteran arcade game players on this forum would knock these 1ccs out a lot faster than I do.

The worst part of Murdoch is the ear-rape from listening to him scream OH THE HORRORS fifty times per attempt.

I really don't have the practice in for the bosses to be doing No 1. Suspects Arcade yet. For Heatseekers, well... I'm still trying to get consistent at Dean Dandy joust-man's pattern-based ass. You might be thinking "you scrub, that's the first boss of the Heatseekers route!" It's also one of the hardest for me. If I can clear Dandy, I know I can handle the rest up to Sonny Rooster. I haven't even made it to the last boss yet, but he's so fucking easy (I know this from story mode) that I'll probably get the clear the first time I reach him.

I tried a credit of No. 1 Suspects and got slaughtered by the twins. Womp womp. The 2nd phase with the traps was too much for my feeble brain to manage.

Elevator Action Returns is one of my favorite games, so it's only natural for me to love Huntdown. It feels like the natural culmination of the formula, without a lot of the rough edges of those older games. I don't think I'll ever get tired of Huntdown's Arcade mode. It's so fucking perfectly made. There are weapons I will take just so I can hear the announcer scream when I kill enemies with them.

EXPLOSIVE
BLAZING
EXPLOSIVE
WEAPONS COMBO
KICK SHOT

Oh yeah, I know about most of the secrets in the game. The Snake Plissken one is probably the only secret I know of that makes a big difference on gameplay, but even that is more "oh hey, neat." Than actually mattering to a 1cc. The gun he gives you is a downgrade for Sawyer, a sidegrade for Anna and only Mow Man really benefits. The Running Man secret in the Misconducts route gives you slightly better positioning for one set of mobs, so again... Not up to much.

Speaking of every character being viable/character preferences, I'm really curious now if there are any pro Mow Man players out there in the ether who can defend his honor from being besmirched. I want to know if there's anything at all that makes him good. Especially since the Shuriken is a weapon drop in the No. 1 Suspects route, which would seem to completely invalidate Mow Man as a character. Maybe you could get a turbo controller with 30hz or 60hz autofire and set him up to fire his gun like an infinite ammo uzi? LOL.

[BIL]

I'm grateful to the universe for Mow Man just for the trailer line "When you look at Mow Man, you look at your grave." Stealing that one.

[Mischief Maker]

Speaking of every character being viable/character preferences, I'm really curious now if there are any pro Mow Man players out there in the ether who can defend his honor from being besmirched. I want to know if there's anything at all that makes him good. Especially since the Shuriken is a weapon drop in the No. 1 Suspects route, which would seem to completely invalidate Mow Man as a character. Maybe you could get a turbo controller with 30hz or 60hz autofire and set him up to fire his gun like an infinite ammo uzi? LOL.

Bingo. I just tried it out with my own turbo-fire controller and suddenly Mow Man makes perfect sense. If you have turbo-fire or powerful button-mash-fu Mow Man turns this game into Contra. Sawyer and Anna Conda have a delay on their pistols, but Mow man fires a constant stream of bullets with simliar DPS to an Uzi (his pistol bullets do 100 each slower, submachine gun's do 50 each faster). Add to that his Kunai are the only secondary weapon with unlimited range and what seems like the fastest reload time. I'm beginning to think Mow Man's the speed runner's character.

[Stevens]

Ha, I figured skilled veteran arcade game players on this forum would knock these 1ccs out a lot faster than I do.
I really don't have the practice in for the bosses to be doing No 1. Suspects Arcade yet. For Heatseekers, well... I'm still trying to get consistent at Dean Dandy joust-man's pattern-based ass. You might be thinking "you scrub, that's the first boss of the Heatseekers route!" It's also one of the hardest for me. If I can clear Dandy, I know I can handle the rest up to Sonny Rooster. I haven't even made it to the last boss yet, but he's so fucking easy (I know this from story mode) that I'll probably get the clear the first time I reach him.

I tried a credit of No. 1 Suspects and got slaughtered by the twins. Womp womp. The 2nd phase with the traps was too much for my feeble brain to manage.

Elevator Action Returns is one of my favorite games, so it's only natural for me to love Huntdown. It feels like the natural culmination of the formula, without a lot of the rough edges of those older games. I don't think I'll ever get tired of Huntdown's Arcade mode. It's so fucking perfectly made. There are weapons I will take just so I can hear the announcer scream when I kill enemies with them.

EXPLOSIVE
BLAZING
EXPLOSIVE
WEAPONS COMBO
KICK SHOT

Oh yeah, I know about most of the secrets in the game. The Snake Plissken one is probably the only secret I know of that makes a big difference on gameplay, but even that is more "oh hey, neat." Than actually mattering to a 1cc. The gun he gives you is a downgrade for Sawyer, a sidegrade for Anna and only Mow Man really benefits. The Running Man secret in the Misconducts route gives you slightly better positioning for one set of mobs, so again... Not up to much.

Speaking of every character being viable/character preferences, I'm really curious now if there are any pro Mow Man players out there in the ether who can defend his honor from being besmirched. I want to know if there's anything at all that makes him good. Especially since the Shuriken is a weapon drop in the No. 1 Suspects route, which would seem to completely invalidate Mow Man as a character. Maybe you could get a turbo controller with 30hz or 60hz autofire and set him up to fire his gun like an infinite ammo uzi? LOL.

Huntdown's story mode is basically a really good practice mode for arcade. Checkpoints are fair so dying is just more practice. When it first came out on PS4 I cleared story mode three times on normal and at least twice on hard which gives you the same life bar as arcade. Some of the bosses took me a lot of tries - UG, Dean, the twins, Yuddai - even seemingly easy Marlo wasn't so easy.
Speaking of the life bars I think three bars works best in HD. Five lets you tank and one is just, fuck that. The enemies drop a lot of health.

I tired the Heatseekers, didn't quite reach Sonny. Might be my 2nd favorite fight after the twins. Ma giiiitar!

As gang leaders go Troy and Ringo are meh, but Goalie and Shogun are so good they make up for it.

I dig the no touch damage ala Metal Slug/Adventures of Batman and Robin. Kick shot is incredibly useful to create space.

Speaking of the twins I always felt it would have been the proper 80's move to have them as the penultimate boss. Or Yuddai.

[Randorama]

+1 for Zero Team. It exists in that weird space between Capcom and Technos belt-scrollers.
My random thoughts on the game...

Game system-wise:

Crowd control is not a basic requirement but it's better to learn it; 1 on 1 fights not involving zakos are tricky, so be careful.
The core mechanic is mastering invincibility frames when performing combos/counters, especially with Spin "I fight with a naked butt"-chan.
You can get away with blue murder once you know when to start a new combo after completing one combo, and other moves can be similarly useful (this part reminds me of Night Slashers).
Enemies (even zakos) can be rather annoying at higher rank levels, though.

Design-wise:

Animations are fluid, though the design is rather generic (thugs+samurai/ninjas...yawn), but with a nod to the sillier Konami ideas (beat up people on benches and workers!).
Music is really forgettable, even more than the Raiden series.
The last stage doesn't make me crazy, at least when it focuses on hammering tons of relatively dumb zakos.
Bosses invariably fall in the "not difficult but tricky" group: last boss can mangle you in nano-seconds if you mistime your attacks, but it is OK otherwise.

...and then everyone explodes, and we are all the merrier for it.

This is one of those games that I can 1-CC (even 1-LC a few times) on a good day, but quit after a tantrum on most days.
Warmly suggested to everyone with a good patience, anyway: it's good fun.

Seibu also produced a puzzle game for PS1 with a similar vibe (Battle Balls? Maybe it had an arcade release, even?).
They generally had a good grasp of games' key design aspects, though their doujin-esque approach to sound+vision was at times their worst flaw.

I quite miss them so

[BIL]

Seibu also produced a puzzle game for PS1 with a similar vibe (Battle Balls? Maybe it had an arcade release, even?).

Battle Balls / Senkyuu? Yeah, AFAIK it was ported to PS1 from arcade.

[Sima Tuna]

Huntdown's story mode is basically a really good practice mode for arcade. Checkpoints are fair so dying is just more practice. When it first came out on PS4 I cleared story mode three times on normal and at least twice on hard which gives you the same life bar as arcade. Some of the bosses took me a lot of tries - UG, Dean, the twins, Yuddai - even seemingly easy Marlo wasn't so easy.
Speaking of the life bars I think three bars works best in HD. Five lets you tank and one is just, fuck that. The enemies drop a lot of health.

I tired the Heatseekers, didn't quite reach Sonny. Might be my 2nd favorite fight after the twins. Ma giiiitar!

As gang leaders go Troy and Ringo are meh, but Goalie and Shogun are so good they make up for it.

I dig the no touch damage ala Metal Slug/Adventures of Batman and Robin. Kick shot is incredibly useful to create space.

Speaking of the twins I always felt it would have been the proper 80's move to have them as the penultimate boss. Or Yuddai.

Yeah, Story mode is definitely where I need to go to put in some time on the bosses. I just don't like story mode nearly as much. It's very hard to go back to story after getting used to arcade. Arcade has better weapons, way more announcer voice clips and more interesting enemy clumps. Story feels quiet and empty compared to Arcade.

I agree that 3 hp is the magic number. With only 1, you can get sniped across the map by an enemy you couldn't even see, or tagged by an uzi bullet you thought you dodged. And some enemies deal 2 lines of damage, so having 2 hp would be the same has having only 1 in many situations. But 5 is way too much, especially since enemies almost always drop health when your own health is low. With 3 hp, Huntdown is tough but supremely fair. The game feels tuned for 3hp.

Goalie is my favorite boss in this game, by far. Not particularly hard, but super fun every time. I'm also a big fan of Nadja ("Play time is over, Slay time begins now") and Sid Handsome ("Let's pump it up some!") I like the level design for the Heatseekers route, and the music is fantastic, but I'm not a huge fan of most of those boss fights. Suki is fun though.

"I'm a people person. But from a distance. With a scope."

[BrianC]

I played the US AC version of Battle Balls before, so it was definitely an arcade game.

[Randorama]

Cheers lads!

I need to go through Seibu's catalogue, sooner or later.

[Ghegs]

What are people's thoughts on Cogen: Sword of Rewind?

For reasons not entirely clear even to myself, I loathe all time-rewind -based elements in action/puzzle games, to the point that I've dropped otherwise perfectly fun games if they end up having those. Just playing the game's demo makes me annoyed whenever there are those platforms that are active only when charged with the time-rewind power. If the whole game can be beaten without having to use it, like the demo, then I could just unmap the button completely and play it like a regular R2RKMF -title. Seems pretty neat otherwise.

[Stevens]

Goalie is my favorite boss in this game, by far. Not particularly hard, but super fun every time. I'm also a big fan of Nadja ("Play time is over, Slay time begins now") and Sid Handsome ("Let's pump it up some!") I like the level design for the Heatseekers route, and the music is fantastic, but I'm not a huge fan of most of those boss fights. Suki is fun though.

"I'm a people person. But from a distance. With a scope."

I think most of the boss encounters are pretty good with a few being meh/exceptional.

Dolls are all solid - they teach you the mechanics.

Heatseekers - I like Dean, Suki, and Rooster. All three force your movement and get more intense. Overseer is my least favorite in the game and Ringo is kind of weak for a big bad.

Suspects - Twins, Yuddai, and Shogun are all great. Marlo and VR girl are ok.

Misconducts are the gang with the best bosses overall. They're all pretty great encounters.

And for what it's worth, I don't hate any of them. Some are just better than others.

Still haven't 1cc'd the Heatseekers. I forgot how nuts he approach to Sonny is, came close though.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

What are people's thoughts on Cogen: Sword of Rewind?

For reasons not entirely clear even to myself, I loathe all time-rewind -based elements in action/puzzle games, to the point that I've dropped otherwise perfectly fun games if they end up having those.

Same, it's not a mechanic I enjoy or seek out. Abilities that let you freely stop time at will can also feel very overpowered and limited in terms of fun to deal with (time stop as a rare/limited-use ability's cool). When I thought about it, it felt like it was due to the game feeling like a checkpoint based shmup, except with even less penalty for failure. Often the rewinding has little to no penalty at all when it's used as a powerup (rather than puzzle solving).

[Stevens]

The Heatseekers got blown up. 1 CC.

Yesterday I couldn't play for shit. Constant deaths before Dean Dandy ("Baby, I got the wheels, I make the deals").

Today ripped right through. I think I died once. Ringo was more fun then I gave him credit for in my last post, but his last phase is his weakest, makes sense I suppose.

Started story mode with Mow. Going to have to practice the Suspects if I'm going to go for the 1 CC. I see Yuddai being a major hurdle.

[Sima Tuna]

I think most of the boss encounters are pretty good with a few being meh/exceptional.

Dolls are all solid - they teach you the mechanics.

Heatseekers - I like Dean, Suki, and Rooster. All three force your movement and get more intense. Overseer is my least favorite in the game and Ringo is kind of weak for a big bad.

Suspects - Twins, Yuddai, and Shogun are all great. Marlo and VR girl are ok.

Misconducts are the gang with the best bosses overall. They're all pretty great encounters.

And for what it's worth, I don't hate any of them. Some are just better than others.

Still haven't 1cc'd the Heatseekers. I forgot how nuts he approach to Sonny is, came close though.

I've made it to the Sonny Rooster approach, like you, and then lost all my lives there. >_> I'm pretty sure the monster truck autoscroller has had its difficulty massively increased for arcade mode. I remember dying once or twice in Story, the first time I did that part, but nothing like this. The overlapping hitboxes of enemy swarms just swallow all my bullets and then overwhelm me and I die, trapped with nowhere to move that doesn't have an enemy standing there. I keep thinking the secret is to save a really strong weapon from earlier in the level, but I'm not sure what weapon would be viable for this. The only way to practice arcade weapon spawns is to play on arcade, since story has totally different spawns for weapons and enemies.

The Hoodlum Dolls and Misconducts are probably my favorite bosses overall. I think the Hoodlum Dolls all do a great job teaching you the fundamentals of the game. I don't mind Troy Lawman. He lacks the impact of Goalie, but he's funny. The Misconducts are the strongest package overall. Or maybe my love for The Warriors has biased me. A sports-based gang operating in the subway system of a dystopian future? Be lookin' good, all the way back to Coney.

Overseer seems to be universally disliked. I've seen his name mentioned negatively elsewhere. I think the fight is simply too patternized and slow. It's not difficult at all, not even on Arcade. But it takes a while, since you can rarely deal damage. I get they wanted to have more mounted boss fights, but implementing that in 2d is always going to be a challenge. Dean is fine, although the voice clips get grating after a while ("You're SO COOL, Dean! <3")

Edit: Congrats on the 1cc in Heatseekers! Like I said, I need more time with Sonny Rooster. I think my run is looking pretty solid through the Overseer, aside from one patch of platforming with heat seeking missiles in level 2 that is still a bitch.

[Stevens]

Thanks!

Really enjoying my time with it. One of the few games I've bought twice. It just looked so cool when I first saw it (randomly on my YT home) I had to play it and was not willing to wait for Steam.

Yeah, I thought it was me. I didn't remember the truck being that hard either, also lost all my lives there on several occasions.

I was able to get passed it with an ol' painless that spawns towards the end of the previous checkpoint. It still wasn't easy though. I used it the first 2 1\2 sections and ran out of ammo. Then I ran like a bitch tossing the boomerang, and dashing/air dashing. The last section is pretty insane. Also some luck.

Next time I'm going to save the minigun for the 2nd half. There's just a lot of enemies in those last two sections. I wonder if I can carry a grenade over from the previous area too? Would make short work of the barricade.

At the end don't forget to jump up. I did the first time..

EDIT - Spent the evening mildly drunk and high opening up Suspects in story mode. There were lots of deaths cause retarded, but I eventually got to Shogun.

I forgot something about VR Girl, need to test again but

Spoiler

I think cluster bomb destroys her second phase. Like completely trivializes it.

[Stevens]

DOUBLE KIL....er post.

Suspects are going to take some work. I have a new strat for Yuddai that I saw elsewhere on the internets which will help a lot.

That said cluster bombs do not wreck Cyra's 2nd phase anymore. They do..

Spoiler

You have to wait for the snake's last phase when it's shooting projectiles. Then it will eat the cluster bombs

[XoPachi]

I think I've watched this trailer like 15 times. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDggdHnlzok

[Udderdude]

I think I've watched this trailer like 15 times. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDggdHnlzok

Do want.

[BIL]

RE Crime Fighters 2, specifically st2 boss "The Missing Link:"

I'm going to have to watch a vid of the ST2 boss because I'm buggered if I know what to do there. Only thing I could really see is letting him come to me, you can move off-axis if he jumps within range and have a poke. A lot of the time though, he'll go straight down if you interrupt him during a move, so this takes ages.

Much harder the Crime Fighters IMO. CF was quite methodical, this is quite a bit more frantic, with a little bit of the jank/randomness of Konami's licenced stuff.

Marc: Boss 2 (aka The Missing Link, aka *insert very cheap punch-line here*) is a "poke-dodge-poke-dodge" boss, which is a standard staple of Konami's beltscrollers.

Hit once starting from off-axis (of course), dodge by going up or down, hit again, repeat 3-4 times to floor him. 2-3 hits on the floor are fine, but he can hit you back when he gets up.

The jumping attack is simple.
First jump, stay on the opposite side of the screen and he won't hit; second jump is a dummy, but start moving (up, down: an open space) so that the third jump will not reach you.
Generally speaking: poke, keep distance, go slowly and yes, this works on all bosses: combos are hard to pull off against them.

Was fooling about with CF2 this morning, just starting to nail down the beginnings of a run - was thinking back to this discussion. Missing Link is a really cool boss design, imo - exemplifies the Technos emphasis on footwork. Rando covered the essentials - I'll only add that his triple stomp (telegraphed every time) can be easily shut down by Boomer's basic jab.

(not sure about other characters - I picked Boomy cos he's my CF1 bro and I want more Muay-shaded eight-limbed carnage, didn't know about his secret weapon all the cool kids love, the BALEETING P+K that can summarily banish enemies off the left screen edge - I ain't complainin but IDGAF either. I'm here to whoop ass, children! )

Yeah yeah OMFG IT WERE AN ASSIDENT OK (｀w´メ)

Spoiler

No Damage / 45sec kill [Boomer]

Could probably get it down to ~35sec, with PPP gambling, but I always try to learn my stages and bosses clean, working in scuff later on if needed. The simplest and safest way to take him out is to get on-axis, and bait out his open-handed slap. He'll go for it every time. Sidestep, then land a few hits. You don't want to flurry him - this'll reliably trigger his AOE blowback. Just land a couple hits and repeat the setup until you start getting knockdowns. Once my weapon breaks, I like to use K+PK - will do nice damage at zero risk.

After losing around 25% lifebar, he'll go for the triple stomp. Just shut it down with an aggressive flurry, as shown. You'll be knocking him down more frequently as his health depletes, so start going for grounded attacks. Just make sure he doesn't cross you up on wakeup - he'll bust out the AOE. At this point it's just a matter of time, keep knocking him down.

I notice you can really aggressively PPP him, for his last 50% HP or so - crossing him up so you're striking the space behind him seems to help the combo land before he can AOE. It's still a risk though. I imagine someone going for speed would be happy to gamble here, the AOE does about 25% of your HP.

Such a great game, and a great sequel, too. Smoother handling, but it's unmistakably the same brutal-yet-clinical Technos-style brawler. Keeping the erratic grappling was a bit daft, on one hand... on the other, it's not really a problem - if someone's been grappled, you're invariably beating the stuffing out of them. The expanded role of grounded attacks is downright goddamn cool - taking a tumble and seamlessly demolishing an opponent's knees in the same digital heartbeat feels incredibly fresh, as does the way thoroughly curb-stomped enemies will stagger back to their feet in stun. No free lunch for these mean fuckers - even if you're too busy to capitalise, it's always worth taking a sec to put shoeprints on an enemy's face, leaving him that much closer to dumpstering.

My only complaint is the sprites being kinda early 90s goofy, opposite CF1's sleazy 80s grim and grit. Mah boy BOOMER isn't looking quite as ace in that yellow tee and mom jeans. However it's the choreography that counts, and it's neck-and-neck with the masterpiece street carnage of CF1 there. Early 90s direct-to-VHS martial arts gangland killathon: THE GAME.

DEAR SWEET JEBUS THAT WERE COLD (◎w◎;) Wait. I already played CF1. Hm. (■｀w´■)

Spoiler

Worth noting that, just like its predecessor, CF2 seems to heavily reward different combos on different enemies. A sequence that'll tear through one type might be easily-stuffed by another. It really pays to experiment a bit. I love this shade of brawler, where [punch] and [kick] are distinct attacks, with their own characteristics - way more physicality behind each attack, and a much greater sense of cinema, when you're targeting enemy temples and solar plexuses with vicious precision, orchestrating each stagger and knockdown.

[Sima Tuna]

The only thing I really don't like about CF2/Vendetta is a personal issue with the strings. The kick string is just way better than punch in every way. If you mash kick, I'd say you have about an 80% chance on most enemies you will complete your string unmolested, put them on the ground and then stomp them to death. With the punch string, I find I get countered at least half the time for my entire lifebar. Making punch pretty useless. I play Blood btw, who is the strongest puncher of the group IIRC. So if Blood can't complete a fuckin' punch string on the most basic enemy type in the game, nobody else will either. The P+K variations and the kick mash are your main spammable moves. So certain characters suffer a lot because their tool sets are very bad in this environment. Boomer, as a kicker, has the easiest and most smooth time managing enemies and bosses. A lot of his shit works super well, especially his grounded move being so fucking fast.

Then you have guys like Hawk and Sledge who are just trash. Their forward P+K have a really weird hitbox and their combos are shit. You can still mash kick and neutral P+K iirc, but it's all inferior. Hawk has his headbutt, which is cool, but you just mentioned the inconsistent throws and that's a problem. Another big advantage of Boomer for a 1cc attempt is you always have the option to push an enemy off the map. Every character can do this AFAIK, but I think Boomer has the easiest tool for it. I have had plenty of big-hp enemies who I just could not get to fly off that left side with Blood. I'm sure my timing was bad, but the hitbox on P+K forward with Boomer is crazy useful for everything. It's a swiss army knife of whupass.

I'm a little annoyed too that Hamster uses the English/World version of CF2. Even if you select "Crime Fighters 2" in the arcade archives version select, you WILL get the world/us version. I know because of the enemies. The enemies are the whole reason I would want to play CF2 rather than Vendetta! Not because I enjoy offensive gay leather biker stereotypes, but those enemies are supposedly way, way fucking easier to kill than the knife guys the US version replaced them with. That and the dogs were replaced with different, more dangerous dogs in Vendetta. So as far as I know, the region select in Hamster's port of Vendetta changes only the language.

To end on a positive note, part of the reason I'm bitching so much about Vendetta/CF2 is I discovered it only recently and it's now one of my favorite beat em ups. I love beat em ups and this is a fantastic one. Hits feel satisfying, the level design is generally of a high quality, with crafted encounters and smart ambushes. Weapons are overpowered, yet balanced by durability. Bosses are mostly great and lack a lot of the pure bullshit invulnerability crap you see in some beat em ups. I really hope Hamster port Violent Storm eventually.

[BIL]

TBH, the [kick] button in CF1 is an absolute deathtrap, with a grand total of one use (vs dogs - even Gay Dog!), being otherwise useful only for style. Career-ending oblique kicks = metal. But not even that, really, because good luck consistently completing its chain without either grappling or eating fist.

Among 80s beaters, I'd actually be tempted to skip CF1, the way I do AC Datsugoku aka The Real Musical Chairs Simulator, if not for its [Japan 2P] revision, and that all-important third, dedicated [back kick] button. That move blows the otherwise stiff, finicky engine wide apart, opening a world of violent possibilities. It's even a properly balanced move, being lightning-quick and high-priority, but weak, made for stuffing enemy attacks and complementing PPPs and murderous stompings.

Spoiler

^ [PPP] is good for zako. For Junkyard? Son, you need [PP] [BK BK BK] [KKKKKK] Kill that motherfucker in one shot, Jack!

Anyway, all this to say, CF2 being two outta three on its buttons also (counting P+K) didn't faze me. Such is my wont, admittedly. If The Ninja Warriors Again had featured one masterpiece character, and two duds, I'd still love it. Two outta three? OMFG I WANNA BONE IT

Nowhere is this vale of tears bitterer than in VG character/weapon/ship balancing...

I'm a little annoyed too that Hamster uses the English/World version of CF2. Even if you select "Crime Fighters 2" in the arcade archives version select, you WILL get the world/us version. I know because of the enemies. The enemies are the whole reason I would want to play CF2 rather than Vendetta! Not because I enjoy offensive gay leather biker stereotypes, but those enemies are supposedly way, way fucking easier to kill than the knife guys the US version replaced them with. That and the dogs were replaced with different, more dangerous dogs in Vendetta. So as far as I know, the region select in Hamster's port of Vendetta changes only the language.

Are you sure they didn't just copy/paste over the relevant enemy data? I don't actually know the region differences between CF2 and Vendetta, other than that stuff - but ACA Sunset Riders makes me wonder. There, the JP ver has the US censorings ported over - the Injun boss is always Wampum, never Scalpem, and El Greco likewise never calls you a gringo. However, the two regions behave exactly like they should, otherwise (JP = 2ALL, US = endless).

It makes me hopeful something similar occurred with CF2/Vendetta, given its release has all the other hallmarks of Sunset Riders and CF1'a (US/JP with 2P & 4P variants, some censorship to JP).

At any rate, CF2 doesn't seem to be the trainwreck I'd expect from a Konami USA board >_> but then again, neither is Sunset Riders US, really.

[Rastan78]

Yeah I'm 99% sure they just patched out the homoerotic tomfoolery in the Japan rev for CF2. Otherwise it would be called Vendetta and they wouldn't have bothered including both roms.

It's pretty common for roms on collections by Hamster or M2 to have minor hacks. Usually it's altering or removing imagery that would be copyright infringing or fixing a gamebreaking bug like random instant deaths. Notice the Ferrari in OutRun ports never looks quite as much like a Ferrari as is it did on the OG arcade rom. Seizure inducing flashes are another common one (Darius Gaiden's Black Hole Bomber was toned down in Cozmic Collection).

But this has to be one of the only cases where an original Japan rom still had to be censored in 2022. They do have to get the game approved by Sony/Nintendo to be on the marketplaces. Aside from the homophobic stereotypical nature of the sprites, you also basically have a comical allusion to anal rape. I always like to see the original games left intact where possible, but no big surprise they had to make cuts here.

[Stevens]

Killed Yuddai quite easily - two deaths total to stage 4, then I stopped: )

There is a kick ass sword that isn't in story mode, don't think it breaks. You whack him and dash to the other side. I'm not good enough to touch of death him - haven't got the timing down - but I can hurt him enough, grab the health, and finish him with the laser.

[Sima Tuna]

Yeah, the blue glowing cyber-katana thing, I've never had that break on me. I think it might be in story mode somewhere, maybe in a secret area. I know I have used it, and I never made it to Yuudai in Arcade.

[BIL]

Aww man, CF2's third stage BGM "POWER IN THE DARKNESS" and st4 BGM, uh "Bay Area" (wtb Evocative VGM Trackname) bring back some of CF1's Priestly metal fire. I kinda like the first two stages' BGMs, first is oddly Castlevania-esque actually, as is the finale's "BREAK INTO THE HIDEOUT." And the second boss BGM recalls the iconic call/response of Gradius II's "The Final Enemy," no bad thing. But st3+4 remind me of how CF1 explodes out of the blocks with hit after hit after hit. METALLIC FIGHT/CRIMSON STREET/HUNGER CITY/FIFTY-FIFTY, all killer no filler - even with each track covering two stages apiece! Exceptional Breaking The Law-esque hooky gravitas. Killer guitar and drum sound too, latter is as close as FM gets to the sound of someone beating the shit out of a battered old kit, you can really feel a fury behind every snare hit.

Konami's music guys were on some beast roids around then... AC Dracula, Crime Fighters, Gradius II, Chequered Flag and even goofy-ass Labyrinth Runner (TRAP OF OCTOPUS a deranged jam! like Motorhead covering Loony Tunes!) all have demolitions-grade metal force.

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Did some minor snooping about for regional differences in CF2 versus Vendetta. Can't seem to find any, other than the usual st3 CF2 enemies censored from the ACA version. Sad to see 'em go but oh well, could've been worse I guess.

The Konami Wiki claims P+K costs a bar of energy per use, I went "THE FUCK YOU SAY (■｀w´■)" and fired up Vendetta, because I know it sure as hell doesn't in CF2. Nope, not in Vendetta either. Phew, that'd be a really dumb idea. P+K's no FF-style bomb. It's a Splatterhouse Part 3-style precision tool! (now Splatterhouse 3, the Genesis revision's spinning kick, that thar be a bomb - FO FREE, too!)

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Incidentally, I've been waiting for like four months for the Contra wiki to update their erroneous claim that you can carry only a single bomb in Super Contra AC. That's horseshit, bro! You can carry TWO in US, and in JP with its two loops, a whopping FOUR. "What lmao i dun see nothin u lyin" Trust me, pussy! They're stackin up! And you'll need em, because the one-life clear is hard as a god damn boner! This was GAME-CHANGING RECON when PEG reported it to this thread!

But nope, Contra Wiki noobs still getting led astray. 3; I'm going to go post a really vulgar followup message implying the admin or head chimp or whoever the fuck runs that monkey farm is a massive poofter, to see if it gets his ass in gear. The numbnuts have locked the relevant article from editing, EVEN FOR REGISTERED USERS (I made a fuckin account just to try!), and I DON'T TAKE KINDLY TO THOSE WHO RISK GOOD MENS LIVES (sorry about the vile language chaps, the spirit of Jesse Ventura compels me U know I'm BROMO 4U any day )

Spoiler

This intel will make you a GOD-DAMNED SEXUAL 2ALLOSAURUS - just like me! And PEG!

(yall remember Jesse Ventura right? >_>)

---

Gawwwd I love CF2 Second sitdown, first where I've got the basic muscle memory down. Went with a [P] [PK] [K] layout, after wondering if it might make sense to learn manual P+K pressing, with the dedicated button off to the side. That just gets confusing though, imo.

I'm wondering if the grappling, at least the throw, is triggered by enemies being in attack recovery frames. I was messing about letting enemies begin a strike before sidestepping, then moving back in to punish. Seems to get a throw every time with [P]. Early days, might be wrong, but it feels a lot more consistent than CF1's grappling ever did.

That left screen edge is HONGREHHH, son! Sent st2's opening knifer to the space between dimensions without even meaning to, was only booking it to the tower knockdown and shotgun snatch! I was annoyed, I like wiping out the three amigos and their Kung Fu BFF in one blast.

This game's sound effects are perfect, both the stock screams ("OWAAAAAAAOH") and the *DSHHH* *WAP* *DSHHH* hits. And those weapon impacts, bah gawd. Just like Elevator Action Returns and Metal Slug's, they bring slapstick joy and hearty carnage with every button press, lasting just long enough to leave the player wanting more. ^__^

The brick and wine bottle being one-use instakillers is cold, cold, cold, I love it. Yeah homie you ain't gettin up from that. Splatterhouse Part 3's surprisingly lame, styrofoam-esque brick is avenged! Haunted me for decades, that thing. 3;

It's so good to have this in fine form on modern hardware. I've felt that way a lot lately, between Hamster and M2. I'm so much more hyped for new-to-me stuff like this than 99% of whatever's coming out these days.

EDIT: Oh duh - Michiru Yamane worked on this, no wonder I was getting mild Vampire Killer vibes from the st1 BGM. Her being so synonymous with Dracula's music post-SOTN and beyond, I tend to forget how much killer music she contributed to earlier projects. Trigon's OST is yet another gem with her name on it. Just the galvanic sound you need for a balls-hard Toaplanesque! Cited as a major influence on the almighty Sakimoto, incidentally. Can definitely hear his signature clarion calls in the st3 boss BGM.

[Rastan78]

There's a part of me that can't admit the Mohawk guy's hilarious airborne dolphin maneuver isn't useful. I just keep coming back to it even if it gets me in trouble. I'd rather land one crunchy dolphin headbutt right onto the dome of an unsuspecting thug than any effortless 25 hit combo from SoR4.

Another minor but loveable detail in CF2: Even since the arcade release in the day I've gotten a kick out the large flashing "ABOUT TO DIE" message that floats above your character near the end of a credit. Oh yeah motherfuckers? I'll show you who's about to die.

BTW Michiru Yamane's signature style never jumped out at me in a non CV game quite like it did when I played this game:
https://youtu.be/toINzoUZJtQ